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[Beckx]

Yeah, and Fei is not an over-exagerated caricature of Bruce Lee. He does not look goofy or anything. Same with Mike Bison

!!!

Mike Bison is a giant though, while Mike Tyson was not (roughly 5'10", 220 lbs in his prime). That character isn't Mike Tyson, it's a Japanese view of Mike Tyson as Godzilla (you have to put your head back into the late 80s/early 90s to see it, pre-Buster Douglas match that made him human).

----------------

We need a fighting game homage to Jet Li. (Maybe there is one, I dunno.)

 

[Deckard Cain]

There really isn't any difference between Law and Fei Long.

Yeah there is. They are not even close.

Fei Long until SFIV had no Bruce Lee inspired moves. All he was was a Bruce Lee look a like who screamed at the top of his lungs when he did moves.

Law has constantly had his moves and movements directly influenced by Bruce Lee's films. He has multiple yells and Kis ment to copy how Bruce sounded not just the fact that he screamed.

Fei Long was a a caricature cash grab, Law is a well planned thought out homage with some caricature silliness thrown in.

 

[CurlyW]

Expendables fighting game

 

[Horseress]

!!!

Mike Bison is a giant though, while Mike Tyson was not. That character isn't Mike Tyson, it's a Japanese view of Mike Tyson as Godzilla (you have to put your head back into the late 80s/early 90s to see it, pre-Buster Douglas match that made him human).

He's just taller. Ok, he doesn't look like Tyson as much as Fei looks like Bruce Lee, but it's definitely an homage (and a caricature)

 

[Clawww]

Law is a much more researched homage to Bruce Lee than Fei Long is. It's insane how accurate they got Lee down in Tekken. Whereas Fei Long has like two moves that resemble Lee.

I don't think this argument is fair, since Tekken and SF work in completely different ways, with the former being much more conducive to more accurate representations of real fighters and fighting styles. But yeah, they really didn't give a fuck with Fei outside the looks and movie start aspect. I don't mind because his moveset is quintessential Street Fighter from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Expendables fighting game

Banderas is in 3

gaf would love it.

 

[Curry-Hakase]

Law actually fights with Jeet Kune Do.
All of Fei Long's "homages" are pretty much all in his U2 which was made like 20 years after his conception.

We need a fighting game homage to Jet Li. (Maybe there is one, I dunno.)

Lee from Last Blade is def Wong Fei Hung, I think that's the closest we're going to get.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

a homage

 

[.la1n]

Expendables fighting game

I would buy it but only if Jean Claude Van Damme is in it.

 

[Clawww]

I would buy it but only if Jean Claude Van Damme is in it.

I would main the fuck out of him, especially if they have that meta JCVD from the eponymous movie.

 

[DEATH™]

Law is a much more researched homage to Bruce Lee than Fei Long is. It's insane how accurate they got Lee down in Tekken. Whereas Fei Long has like two moves that resemble Lee.

And that is only one of the reasons why we love our large movelists...

PepperBeefSoSpicy needs to make a Steve one for Hajime no Ippo while I make stuff for King/AK/Marduk/Changs Kreygasm

 

[Horseress]

Capcom vs Mercenaries

do it Capcom

 

[Beckx]

If this thread gets into an argument over the right article to use with H, we deserve to get relegated to Community.

------------------------

 

[Lambda Pie]

Jacky from VF is a better homage to Bruce Lee fighting style than Fei, not exactly a hard task.

 

[Village]

It was called Guilty Gear

heh.

Barring that.

New strait up new game, all the anime, modern anime sensibilities , has become the most popular fighting game. Barring smash bros for 10 million copies type reasons .

What does it do, how does it get there?
Did it take advantage of a company dying off? Does it do something so great that people have to deal with it because it sold some insane amount? Does it appeal to a very young potential Fan base that a lot of dudes in the fgc a bit to old for.

How does Super Hypothetical Anime fighter: Resonance of Iinfinitum make its way to the top? Did they have to send ninja's out to get rid of people?


Also another hypothetical, if capcom business were to explode on itself, and street fighter had to go somewhere, who would you want to take street fighter? Or what would you want to happen. Not street fighter specific, if your favorite fighting game's business were to cease existing, what would you want to happen to it. And what do you think is a more realistic vision of what would happen o it?

 

[Busaiku]

BlazBlue's like the most popular non-Gundam fighting game.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah there is. They are not even close.

Fei Long until SFIV had no Bruce Lee inspired moves. All he was was a Bruce Lee look a like who screamed at the top of his lungs when he did moves.

Law has constantly had his moves and movements directly influenced by Bruce Lee's films. He has multiple yells and Kis ment to copy how Bruce sounded not just the fact that he screamed.

Fei Long was a a caricature cash grab, Law is a well planned thought out homage with some caricature silliness thrown in.

This is a difference in game engines and playstyles.

We are talking about visual design here ie. what characters look like not how they play.

Also Law had very little resemblance to Bruce Lee starting out. He wasn't that fast and didn't have many signature Bruce Lee moves back then even in Tekken 3. Hell I would say it was in Tekken 6 that they really started making him more like Bruce Lee.

As far as the Bruce Lee playstyle goes... Jann Lee from Dead or Alive was a more accurate representation of Bruce Lee in terms of playstyle. Hell even Jacky from VF is a better homage if you want to talk about playstyle.


If we start getting into this argument about SF characters not playing like what they are supposed to look... that pretty much applies to all of their characters. Ryu is not an accurate representation of how a martial artist fights and he's the god damn poster boy of the franchise! If you want accuracy in fighting styles then you should be playing 3D fighters.

 

[Silky]

heh.

Barring that.

New strait up new game, all the anime, modern anime sensibilities , has become the most popular fighting game. Barring smash bros for 10 million copies type reasons .

What does it do, how does it get there?
Did it take advantage of a company dying off? Does it do something so great that people have to deal with it because it sold some insane amount? Does it appeal to a very young potential Fan base that a lot of dudes in the fgc a bit to old for.

How does Super Hypothetical Anime fighter: Resonance of Iinfinitum make its way to the top? Did they have to send ninja's out to get rid of people?


Also another hypothetical, if capcom business were to explode on itself, and street fighter had to go somewhere, who would you want to take street fighter? Or what would you want to happen. Not street fighter specific, if your favorite fighting game's business were to cease existing, what would you want to happen to it. And what do you think is a more realistic vision of what would happen o it?

For the first thing: that game would have to appeal a lot of tastes and interests and have a huge, warner bros. esque marketing push for it to be as successful as the Street Fighter series. Something along the lines of 'Tetsuya Nomura and Arc Sys. Works teams up with Warner Bros. Interactive for blahblahblah double secks or something.' That could be a real gang buster.

The latter, I would want someone with enough experience to make and promote a fighting game to take street fighter or KOF/FF/TLB. And sadly the only two companies capable of doing such is SEGA and Capcom.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Law > Fei

 

[Beckx]

Also another hypothetical, if capcom business were to explode on itself, and street fighter had to go somewhere, who would you want to take street fighter? Or what would you want to happen. Not street fighter specific, if your favorite fighting game's business were to cease existing, what would you want to happen to it. And what do you think is a more realistic vision of what would happen o it?

In *general* my feeling is to pour one out for it and move on to something new. I hate living dead properties. But then again, I don't buy the "just put enough engineers on it and it will be a great game, regardless of who makes it" mentality. That got us Halo 4. Yeah.

 

[Dahbomb]

What does it do, how does it get there?

For a new modern anime fighter to succeed on a global level it would have to use already recognized characters in the roster like Smash.

So basically Shonen Jump vs Capcom.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

This is a difference in game engines and playstyles.

We are talking about visual design here ie. what characters look like not how they play.

Also Law had very little resemblance to Bruce Lee starting out. He wasn't that fast and didn't have many signature Bruce Lee moves back then even in Tekken 3. Hell I would say it was in Tekken 6 that they really started making him more like Bruce Lee.

I dunno man. My first memory of Tekken was seeing in the arcades and going "Holy crap, Bruce Lee is in this game!!!" Visually it was probably as close as you could get with the technology (and no legal trouble).

 

[sleepykyo]

heh.


How does Super Hypothetical Anime fighter: Resonance of Iinfinitum make its way to the top? Did they have to send ninja's out to get rid of people?

Attack on Titan/Mortal Kombat sensibilities?

 

[Dahbomb]

I dunno man. My first memory of Tekken was seeing in the arcades and going "Holy crap, Bruce Lee is in this game!!!" Visually it was probably as close as you could get with the technology (and no legal trouble).

Yeah but that was on mostly a visual aspect.

Since when did Bruce Lee use u/f+4, 3?

 

[Beckx]

Am I a bad person if want to learn Lion in VF5? He was so cheesy in VF2 and his spoken lines are still so gloriously stupid.

Though I forgot that Lei-Fei is a decent stand in for some of Jet Li's movie roles. Dunno, I remember him being hard to play.

 

[Curry-Hakase]

What does it do, how does it get there?
Did it take advantage of a company dying off? Does it do something so great that people have to deal with it because it sold some insane amount? Does it appeal to a very young potential Fan base that a lot of dudes in the fgc a bit to old for.
How does Super Hypothetical Anime fighter: Resonance of Iinfinitum make its way to the top? Did they have to send ninja's out to get rid of people?

I can't imagine anything short of some sort of all-out fan service cross over game can break the negative stigma that anime games have. Sort of a Capcom Fighting Jam

Spoiler

that doesn't suck

. Cater to all the niches and then more.

Also another hypothetical, if capcom business were to explode on itself, and street fighter had to go somewhere, who would you want to take street fighter? Or what would you want to happen. Not street fighter specific, if your favorite fighting game's business were to cease existing, what would you want to happen to it. And what do you think is a more realistic vision of what would happen o it?

I want to say SNK cause they're the only other traditional fighting game company that appeals to me...but then I remember SVC:Chaos was a thing so maybe it's better to just let SF die.

 

[Retro_]

To comment on your previous post, so a hypethetical air-dash game with all the anime just came out. Its more popular than street fighter, what did it do to do that?

Might as well ask me what happens when an object moves faster than the speed of light lol

Depends on how you define popularity. Like if you limit your sample to different regions of the world or measure popularity by a different metric than # of copies sold and penetration into popular culture I think there are alot of games that have been or are currently more popular than Street Fighter.(definitely more popular than Marvel)

but if you have to consider the LCD, the guy who buys SF4, plays it a week and then does nothing but occasionally talk about it with friends and wear hadoken tshirts etc then I don't think there's much to be done short of street fighter disappearing altogether. SF has become iconic to the point where a subculture has developed outside of the game and to alot of people that means more than how a game plays. Street Fighter IS fighting games like McDonalds is fast food.

 

[Silky]

but if you have to consider the LCD, the guy who buys SF4, plays it a week and then does nothing but occasionally talk about it with friends and wear hadoken tshirts etc then I don't think there's much to be done short of street fighter disappearing altogether. SF has become iconic to the point where a subculture has developed outside of the game and to alot of people that means more than how a game plays. Street Fighter IS fighting games like McDonalds is fast food.

damn i thought i was the only one who used LCD as a derogatory term

 

[Parallax Scroll]

In *general* my feeling is to pour one out for it and move on to something new. I hate living dead properties. But then again, I don't buy the "just put enough engineers on it and it will be a great game, regardless of who makes it" mentality. That got us Halo 4. Yeah.

the cutscenes looked nice though

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Kokonoe getting banned at Rebel Up, potentially being extended to TRB/SCR. rip science
https://twitter.com/jyosua/status/425680742266310656

 

[Village]

I can't imagine anything short of some sort of all-out fan service cross over game can break the negative stigma that anime games have. Sort of a Capcom Fighting Jam

Spoiler

that doesn't suck

. Cater to all the niches and then more.


I want to say SNK cause they're the only other traditional fighting game company that appeals to me...but then I remember SVC:Chaos was a thing so maybe it's better to just let SF die.

In the fgc though, I mean. if gets too popular the fgc will just have to deal with it, like smash bros. There re still a metric shit ton of people who may not consider smash a fighting game, even the creator of the series himself. But it is very popular and so many people play it on a competitive level, it has to be dealth with .

Now while I am not saying hypothetical animal fighter would be the smash bros popular, one of the reasons smash bros is so popular is because of the brothers doing the smashing, however as someone were to get in the game who could cause a who bunch of ruckus and get people who werent normally in , in. Then it would force its way it.

For a new modern anime fighter to succeed on a global level it would have to use already recognized characters in the roster like Smash.

So basically Shonen Jump vs Capcom.

Hmm maybe, but I think it could happen on its own like all new IP, It might not be the biggest at first but it would create ruckus coming in. but I think someone big would have to get in the game. All new more traditional square enix fighting game, designed by some rpg dude like namura or something. Now you got cats trying to by fighting games that don't usually investigate that possiblity. Same thing could be said with a crossover game, but my dream of Square Enix vs will never come true.

For the first thing: that game would have to appeal a lot of tastes and interests and have a huge, warner bros. esque marketing push for it to be as successful as the Street Fighter series. Something along the lines of 'Tetsuya Nomura and Arc Sys. Works teams up with Warner Bros. Interactive for blahblahblah double secks or something.' That could be a real gang buster.

Hmm interesting. The bolded however brings me to yet another quandry? If Square exix made a more traditional fighter today ( non dissida ) . What would it play like ,who is the character designer? If its super hype do they continue making it?

The latter, I would want someone with enough experience to make and promote a fighting game to take street fighter or KOF/FF/TLB. And sadly the only two companies capable of doing such is SEGA and Capcom.

I think Namco could do the damn thing with some 3d stuff, I have no idea what would happen to street fighter though.

 

[Dahbomb]

Alright on a more serious note... here's what an ANIME game needs to succeed on a global level.

*Recognizable characters. You need the Gokus, the Narutos, the Ichigo, the Ippos, the Gutts. Basically characters tied to some IP which already has a dedicated fan base globally. Either that or you need recognizable international video game characters like Cloud Strife, Dante, Raiden etc.

*Fast, fluid and flashy game play. Not really a problem with most anime games but people don't want a Street Fighter type game with these characters... they want a more VS style game play preferably multiple characters. And the visuals should be similar to GG Xrd.

*Easy to get into controls. 4 buttons max for the attacks... new gamers don't want to deal with this 6 button stuff. No complex inputs... that means no RDPs, no pretzels, no double QCF motions, no 1 frame links and you need a generous buffer window. You also don't want to put in shortcuts galore where people get out DPs when they want to do a HCB. Chains over links for combo confirms but keep the combo length short which means more aggressive implementation of HSD and damage scaling.

*Extensive tutorial mode similar to what KI and Skullgirls offer. On top of that you need more involved stat tracking that gives performance update after every match. How many times you were hit out in counter hit status... how many times you were opened up low versus high... how many times you were thrown.

*A legitimate single player mode with unlockables. Probably the hardest thing to do right in a fighting game but still necessary to get the big bucks.

*Lots of customizable options from the lore of the characters. I want to dress up Goku in the Saiyan armor... I want to play Ippo in his fisherman clothes. They can make these unlockable through grind or microtransactions... don't really care.

*Legitimate online modes. Online training, proper matching making, good netcode, team battle modes and the TRUE NEXT GEN fighting game mode... Online Gambling mode. It's like online spectating but you can put up in-game currency as side bets for each match. Now this is how you get real hype within the game. Also there should be like a Gladiator/Arena mode where you put up some amount of in-game currency to fight against the best of the best as a sort of online tournament but the payout is in-game currency.



That's just the tip of the ice berg. A lot of the appeal is going to come from the recognizable characters, how the game looks and plays along with its features.

 

[Retro_]

You just described the Ninja Storm games

The future of fighting games...

 

[Dahbomb]

You just described the Ninja Storm games

The future of fighting games...

They have the right template.. but they have an AWFUL fighting game engine.

And you can tell they are doing it right because they manage to sell despite having an awful fighting game engine. They got the visuals, they got the character fan service, they got the modes (well many of them, they still need a lot more)... they just need a more legitimate fighting engine than something that requires a bunch of QTEs and shit.

 

[Infinite]

Alright on a more serious note... here's what an ANIME game needs to succeed on a global level.

*Recognizable characters. You need the Gokus, the Narutos, the Ichigo, the Ippos, the Gutts. Basically characters tied to some IP which already has a dedicated fan base globally.

*Fast, fluid and flashy game play. Not really a problem with most anime games but people don't want a Street Fighter type game with these characters... they want a more VS style game play preferably multiple characters. And the visuals should be similar to GG Xrd.

*Easy to get into controls. 4 buttons max for the attacks... new gamers don't want to deal with this 6 button stuff. No complex inputs... that means no RDPs, no pretzels, no double QCF motions, no 1 frame links and you need a generous buffer window. You also don't want to put in shortcuts galore where people get out DPs when they want to do a HCB.

*Extensive tutorial mode similar to what KI and Skullgirls offer. On top of that you need more involved stat tracking that gives performance update after every match. How many times you were hit out in counter hit status... how many times you were opened up low versus high... how many times you were thrown.

*A legitimate single player mode with unlockables. Probably the hardest thing to do right in a fighting game but still necessary to get the big bucks.

*Lots of customizable options from the lore of the characters. I want to dress up Goku in the Saiyan armor... I want to play Ippo in his fisherman clothes. They can make these unlockable through grind or microtransactions... don't really care.

*Legitimate online modes. Online training, proper matching making, good netcode, team battle modes and the TRUE NEXT GEN fighting game mode... Online Gambling mode. It's like online spectating but you can put up in-game currency as side bets for each match. Now this is how you get real hype within the game. Also there should be like a Gladiator/Arena mode where you put up some amount of in-game currency to fight against the best of the best as a sort of online tournament but the payout is in-game currency.



That's just the tip of the ice berg. A lot of the appeal is going to come from the recognizable characters, how the game looks and plays along with its features.

So basically you just want an anime game with shonen jump fighters.

I mean persona 4 arena arguably hits most of these bullet points.

What's it going to take for a new IP to be breakout success in the west?

 

[Silky]

Hmm interesting. The bolded however brings me to yet another quandry? If Square exix made a more traditional fighter today ( non dissida ) . What would it play like ,who is the character designer? If its super hype do they continue making it?

Is Takahashi still at Square Enix? If so, let him do a proper 2D/3D Square Enix fighter. Let Nomura do the character designs. Make it SQUARE focused (Enix, Enix Europe, Square JP) and boom.

 

[Curry-Hakase]

snip

Honestly, P4U hits most of your points so it's kind of a step in the right direction but the mechanics in that game are kinda eh....

Infinite got it.

 

[Village]

Is Takahashi still at Square Enix? If so, let him do a proper 2D/3D Square Enix fighter. Let Nomura do the character designs. Make it SQUARE focused (Enix, Enix Europe, Square JP) and boom.

Make it so.

And don't tell Toriyama about it, don't even tell him you are making a game. Tell him you are making a pizza and let him wonder around talking about lightning.

 

[vocab]

Kokonoe getting banned at Rebel Up, potentially being extended to TRB/SCR. rip science
https://twitter.com/jyosua/status/425680742266310656

It's happening. Yessss

 

[Dahbomb]

So basically you just want an anime game with shonen jump fighters.

I mean persona 4 arena arguably hits most of these bullet points.

Yeah but it doesn't have nearly enough characters to get the widespread appeal. I mean I am not a Persona fan... why would I ever bother with that game? Now if that game had Dante in it... I would be all over that shit and so would a lot of people.

I am not saying it has to be a Shonen Jump game... I am saying the characters need even broader appeal than that.

What's it going to take for a new IP to be breakout success in the west?

Honestly it would need the perfect balance of easy to get into but hard to master type game play with the right set of visuals and character appeal that is nearly impossible to make. It would have to have some game play mechanic that just grabs people.

It's going to be very difficult for a new IP anime fighter to break out in the West unless it provides a bunch of new never before seen mechanic and even then I don't think that will be enough. Too much of a stigma over them. I think the whole concept of "anime fighter" needs to be over hauled... from the control scheme, the long combos, the character designs etc.

Basically what I am saying is that you need to make an anime fighting game without it looking like an anime game to your average gamer.

 

[Ragingnight]

don't ban kokonoe, I like her dash animations =(

 

[Seasoned Badger]

Yeah there is. They are not even close.

Fei Long until SFIV had no Bruce Lee inspired moves. All he was was a Bruce Lee look a like who screamed at the top of his lungs when he did moves.

Law has constantly had his moves and movements directly influenced by Bruce Lee's films. He has multiple yells and Kis ment to copy how Bruce sounded not just the fact that he screamed.

Fei Long was a a caricature cash grab, Law is a well planned thought out homage with some caricature silliness thrown in.

I recognize a majority of Fei Long's move in ST and SFA3 in various Bruce Lee movies. There are more example but why bother.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qkLuuzi02GU#t=226

 

[Silky]

I still think banning Kokonoe/character bans is a pretty stupid thing to do, but eh.

 

[kick51]

Kokonoe getting banned at Rebel Up, potentially being extended to TRB/SCR. rip science
https://twitter.com/jyosua/status/425680742266310656

from that thread...they banned her after people signed up? and because "top players" complained. very responsible thing to do.

 

[theprodigy]

man Injustice can't even beat out anime at SCR:
https://twitter.com/AlexValleSF4/status/425395013158043648

and also apparently KOF is ahead of Melee right now too, though I expect Melee to catch up now that Apex is over:
https://twitter.com/AlexValleSF4/status/425402624955805696

(also how do you actually display the tweets themselves and not just the links)

 

[oneida]

Am I a bad person if want to learn Lion in VF5? He was so cheesy in VF2 and his spoken lines are still so gloriously stupid.

Though I forgot that Lei-Fei is a decent stand in for some of Jet Li's movie roles. Dunno, I remember him being hard to play.

Not at all, I would love to learn Lion. He's a goofball but mantis is too cool.

Chibita is the person you should watch, timestamped for when the matches start
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=15sF2VKREAI&t=195

 

[sixteen-bit]

(also how do you actually display the tweets themselves and not just the links)

copy and paste the text

 

[Dahbomb]

Kokonoe getting banned at Rebel Up, potentially being extended to TRB/SCR. rip science
https://twitter.com/jyosua/status/425680742266310656

Ooh damn how did I miss this?

Should be reported on Eventhubs/SRK.

 

[Retro_]

What's it going to take for a new IP to be breakout success in the west?

Not be a new fighting game IP

Like you're asking a question that has no answer as it has never been done and no one has an idea of how to go about making it happen.

Basically what I am saying is that you need to make an anime fighting game without it looking like an anime game to your average gamer.

Basically you need to find an answer to a paradoxical statement

 

[DryEyeRelief]

and also apparently KOF is ahead of Melee right now too, though I expect Melee to catch up now that Apex is over:
https://twitter.com/AlexValleSF4/status/425402624955805696

(also how do you actually display the tweets themselves and not just the links)

That's surprising. I guess Alex was right to base the cap on last year turnouts at SCR instead of looking at current local attendance.