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[Busaiku]

Coopa's streams are still great.

 

[Ragingnight]

people are really surprise at like 200 dollar donations? E-sports people and former e-sports people make tons more. Hafu had more than 1k donations in like a week, maybe a week and a half. And she is a FORMER pro player.

I can only imagine how much fucking TSM gets if they accept donations. Yoonie was getting a bit of that when she was dating xspecial.

 

[jbug617]

Edit: Could the corporation that MarkMan is teasing about potentially be Microsoft getting more serious about KI and growing it's competitive scene?

Mark said it was something bad.

@MarkMan23: Also as a reminder, you wear seatbelts to protect yourself from danger. Not for positive things.

 

[theprodigy]

people are really surprise at like 200 dollar donations? E-sports people and former e-sports people make tons more. Hafu had more than 1k donations in like a week, maybe a week and a half. And she is a FORMER pro player.

I can only imagine how much fucking TSM gets if they accept donations. Yoonie was getting a bit of that when she was dating xspecial.

FGC is still clearly poverty tier

 

[Dahbomb]

Hafu still plays Hearthstone fairly regularly though.

Seems like the PS4 is going to be the fighting game console of choice going forward if the performance difference is that much where same game is running 60FPS on one and 30FPS on another (unacceptable for a fighter). Generally speaking fighting games are on the lower end of the graphics scale but Tomb Raider is already a cross gen game and the difference is evident even in that game.

 

[Zissou]

Yea, we're more or less in agreement about this. Being not bad is often good enough.



Yea, I'm not a believer of this at all. I've stated why, but I'll also add that visually it's really hard to get it wrong. You posted examples of people downing SG's artstyle, but for every person complaining about it, there's also someone out there that absolutely love's SG's style. A game having a divisive artstyle isn't the same as it having an unacceptably bad one.



Yea, I don't think it's impossible for a new IP to find success, though it will be difficult, but not for reasons that have anything to do with the game. I look at Lab Zero's struggles these past years and I see a common pattern as far as setbacks that have affected their level of success; If they had more money to work with, they'd be fine.

And honestly, for a niche game like Skullgirls, I think every thread on GAF, no matter how negative, had more of a positive effect than a negative one.



Yea, SG could have been off to a better start with a bigger roster, or even switching out two of the females for two of the guys from the supposed future roster.

I think SF4 could have easily launched with a dozen Juri-like characters (I'd honestly argue that all the newcomers are Juri-esque), as long as the original 12 from SF2 were there.



I think both types of fighters could do reasonably well outside their native countries, but like you said, if you're only focused on your homeland they're obviously not going to gain any traction anywhere else.

One of the biggest reasons GG and BB aren't bigger competitively is because of Arc Sys's release schedule. That has nothing to do with the game itself.



You can, but I imagine that a lot of times there's some things the devs just can't control. I think of SG's development cycle, KI's, Marvel's . . . sometimes, shit happens.



Yea, I think everyone cares about aesthetics. My avatar is my character of choice in my preferred fighter from last(this) gen because of her style. As soon as I saw her I decided I'd main her. I also readily mention how much I hate NRS's artstyle. It matters, but not as much as you're giving it credit for.

Also, sales success and success in the FGC are two separate things. Marvel is the second, and sometimes the first, most popular competitive fighting game in America, but I don't think that's reflected in the sales. And I doubt if you only saw only the sales numbers you'd be able to guess it's popularity. What really matters is the fact that Capcom made it.

I wasn’t making any judgement on whether threads with negativity in them helped or hurt Skullgirls- I was just saying reactions in that thread were indicative of many people’s thoughts on the game and that it would never see big time success because of how the characters the game launched with looked. Lab Zero has had it’s share of misfortune through no fault of their own, but even if they only had the funds to release the game with a small initial cast, that they started out with an all female cast (with very niche design to boot) is entirely on them. They could’ve waited on one or two of the female characters and launched with a dude or two in their place if they had wanted. What you’re saying about Juri is exactly what I said- you can have designs that are kind of crazy or niche as long as you’ve got more normal/generally acceptable cast members first. It’s only when the whole cast is nothing but wierdos that the game becomes a really tough sell.

Arc’s release schedule sucks and I think unless they were to do something drastic, they’ve poisoned the chances of any of their games ever becoming big competitively outside of Japan- their reputation for releasing things so late abroad would not be easy to change. I still think the aesthetics would hold the games back though.

I guess we have to disagree when it comes to the importance of aesthetics. I think they play a large role and you don’t think they’re quite as important. Unfortunately, we don’t really know which is correct (or whether we’re both varying degrees of correct) since developers fuck up so many things when they make/release fighting games that you don’t know which variable(s) caused it to really fail.

I do believe general sales success and FGC success are linked. Is there some game that could sell <100k or <50k copies that was played in tournaments for a decade that I don’t know about? Looking at the biggest competitive games now:
-SF4 (and all it’s iterations) - Cummulatively sold well and generated money through arcade release in Japan. Huge long term tournament presence.
-UMvC3/MvC3 - Sold something like 2 million copies between the two versions, IIRC. Huge competitively in the states, not as much elsewhere (for various reasons).
-Smash - Sold ass loads. Huge tournament presence/playerbase.

Games DO often sell well but die out competitively because they aren’t mechanically sound enough for long term play to be interesting, but these games do get played in the FGC until people abandon the games for reasons of mechanics (DoA, some Soul Calibur entries, etc.). Have there been fighters that had terrible sales but became comparatively active in tournaments? I’d honestly like to know. From what I can see, the rule is: a game that sells well will also get interest in the FGC and FGC will TRY it, though they will abandon it if is ass. If a game doesn’t sell well though, it doesn’t have a real chance of being adopted in the FGC, regardless of quality. The same thing that generates respectable mainstream sales is the same thing the generates INITIAL interest in the FGC. Mechanics decide whether the FGC sticks with it.

 

[poopninjamvc3mk]

Coopa's streams are still great.

Man fuck coopa's streams. Dude banned me for laughing at his salt in MGR.

 

[inanutshell]

Hafu still plays Hearthstone fairly regularly though.

Seems like the PS4 is going to be the fighting game console of choice going forward if the performance difference is that much where same game is running 60FPS on one and 30FPS on another (unacceptable for a fighter). Generally speaking fighting games are on the lower end of the graphics scale but Tomb Raider is already a cross gen game and the difference is evident even in that game.

I think it's more likely the Xbone version of fighting games will just run at a lower resolution since 60 fps is so important.

 

[Dahbomb]

I can't imagine MVC2, 3rd Strike and CVS2 having great sales but they were tournament games for years. Unless you mean in the current generation.

Although you could argue though that these games were popular at arcades and that's where players got their exposure from. Different time and circumstances so difficult to compare.

I guess the next game I can think of is KOFXIII. Not a lot of sales but mechanically strong and has a solid competitive scene (2 years at EVO, maybe 3).

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I bet sf5 will run 60fps on both.

 

[Zissou]

I can't imagine MVC2, 3rd Strike and CVS2 having great sales but they were tournament games for years. Unless you mean in the current generation.

For the random sales numbers I quoted, it'd be a reference point for more recent stuff. For older games you have to take into account what 'good sales' of a game at that time was even defined as. I don't even know if/how Mvc2/3S/CvS2 historical sales numbers could be determined regardless (would be interested to find out though!)

 

[vocab]

I bet sf5 will run 60fps on both.

Well they are ditching MTframework, and I don't know much about their new engine. Lets see how Deep down goes first before we start making some predictions. At this point the superior hardware is all that matters.

 

[poopninjamvc3mk]

I bet sf5 will run 60fps on both.

SF5 will have 4 frames of input lag in arcades, 2 frames on xbone, and none on PS4

 

[Clawww]

I bet sf5 will run 60fps on both.

no way ANY fighter will not be the same framerate on both systems. that's game suicide and guaranteed legendary shitshow. they will sacrifice resoultion, AA, effects before framerate. it's not even a debate.

 

[enzo_gt]

I didn't read MarkMan's tweets as commentary on team sponsorships necessarily. I immediately thought of organizations backing out of sponsorships or future leagues.

Either way, it seems phrased to be more damaging than some players becoming free agents.

 

[vocab]

no way ANY fighter will not be the same framerate on both systems. that's game suicide and guaranteed legendary shitshow. they will sacrifice resoultion, AA, effects before framerate. it's not even a debate.

I would agree, but Marvel 3 wasn't exactly optimal for the ps3 version. UMVC3 cleaned up some of the particle effect drops, but it's still bad. The game barely runs at 60fps.


From here on out, there is no excuse. They have more than enough to work with.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Well they are ditching MTframework, and I don't know much about their new engine. Lets see how Deep down goes first before we start making some predictions. At this point the superior hardware is all that matters.

Its too important for fighters. They will turn down other effects to make it happen. I cant see them shipping out their top fighter with those conditions.

 

[Ragingnight]

they'll just make it 720p to make it work. Look at KI

 

[ismk]

WNF is live - http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive

 

[Silky]

they'll just make it 720p to make it work. Look at KI

I can see the thread now...

ugh

 

[Dahbomb]

no way ANY fighter will not be the same framerate on both systems. that's game suicide and guaranteed legendary shitshow. they will sacrifice resoultion, AA, effects before framerate. it's not even a debate.

You can still have input lag and weird drops on the console. Basically the MVC3 situation.

 

[Anth0ny]

Earlier non-major FGC streams were so much better, namely Sp00ky's and a few other people. It's just them being themselves, not promoting anything, saying what they want, doing what they want, etc. So many streams are so forced these days and it's so obvious they have to do what they have to do if they are sponsored and trying to maintain a certain image.

truth.

then esports happened. it was inevitable, though.

 

[biosnake20]

eSports Report Interview: 1st and 3rd SF4 - Dieminion and Sanford Kelly

esports aaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaa

haha


I actually agree with Arturo assessment of him being about c-tier. He is a buff or two away from being stupid though. Funny how that works.

That's most of the cast though.

Earlier non-major FGC streams were so much better, namely Sp00ky's and a few other people. It's just them being themselves, not promoting anything, saying what they want, doing what they want, etc. So many streams are so forced these days and it's so obvious they have to do what they have to do if they are sponsored and trying to maintain a certain image.

I miss Seb and Battlefield Arcadia.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

eSports Report Interview: 1st and 3rd SF4 - Dieminion and Sanford Kelly

esports aaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaa

lol art

 

[enzo_gt]

Its too important for fighters. They will turn down other effects to make it happen. I cant see them shipping out their top fighter with those conditions.

I don't think it's that simple all of the time. It's difficult to test situations where there's a lot of shit on the screen really, because even if you were to manufacture that sort of situation it might be difficult to figure out what ends up being most intensive for the CPU. This is especially an issue in Marvel considering the emergence of tech/exploits over time.

It's always more complicated than powerful/scalable engine + powerful/efficient hardware = good, solid framerate.

 

[Clawww]

I would agree, but Marvel 3 wasn't exactly optimal for the ps3 version. UMVC3 cleaned up some of the particle effect drops, but it's still bad. The game barely runs at 60fps.


From here on out, there is no excuse. They have more than enough to work with.

drops and input lag and other sloppy stuff will probably happen, but a hard 30/60 decision would be mindboggling

 

[Dahbomb]

The Morrigan AV spam with assists and the opponents action is something where the performance difference becomes the most apparent. There's a lot of stuff on the screen and it takes a toll on the hardware. Its why ChrisG complains so hard about PS3 lag.

For the record I do not expect 30/60 difference but more in the line of 60 solid vs 60 with dips and lag.

 

[Ragingnight]

I will laugh when SF5 is 720p on xbo but stable 60 fps and no input lag but input lag and frame variance at 1080p on ps4.

I can already picture the bigger divide between casuals and competitive players.

 

[phaonaut]

lol is art wearing a boxxy shirt ?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

The Morrigan AV spam with assists and the opponents action is something where the performance difference becomes the most apparent. There's a lot of stuff on the screen and it takes a toll on the hardware. Its why ChrisG complains so hard about PS3 lag.

that and he's a whiner

 

[Clawww]

I will laugh when SF5 is 720p on xbo but stable 60 fps and no input lag but input lag and frame variance at 1080p on ps4.

I can already picture the bigger divide between casuals and competitive players.

lmao

that would be nasty

 

[ismk]

eSports Report Interview: 1st and 3rd SF4 - Dieminion and Sanford Kelly

esports aaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaa

Art looks so stiff.

I will laugh when SF5 is 720p on xbo but stable 60 fps and no input lag but input lag and frame variance at 1080p on ps4.

I can already picture the bigger divide between casuals and competitive players.

Why would Capcom ever do that though? Now that Capcom is paying a lot of attention to the FGC, I will be shocked if that scenario comes to fruition.

 

[Coda]

lmao

that would be nasty

That's why you hold off on buying next gen, feel that nastiness out first.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

street fighter 1 dramatic battle cpu matches http://www.twitch.tv/fgtvlive

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I don't think it's that simple all of the time. It's difficult to test situations where there's a lot of shit on the screen really, because even if you were to manufacture that sort of situation it might be difficult to figure out what ends up being most intensive for the CPU. This is especially an issue in Marvel considering the emergence of tech/exploits over time.

It's always more complicated than powerful/scalable engine + powerful/efficient hardware = good, solid framerate.

Didn't say it was simple. Believe me, I know game dev is hard.

Capcom would know all this and plan for it. I assume the goal from the beginning would be 60 fps across both platforms and they will tweak down when needed.

All those situations you listed are normal checks during the Dev and test cycle.

If anything, xbox1 will be 720 and 60 and ps4 1080/60. Maybe they will turn off some particles. They will do something. Maybe the xbone version will be like the ps3 versions now and be lesser one. But we still use the ps3 version a lot, so we shall see.

If the 2 versions have different framerates, that WILL be a shitshow. Like the sf alpha shadows difference times 100, and this actually matters! Haha.

 

[Dahbomb]

Capcom would know all this and plan for it.

Bro...

This is CAPCPOM we are talking about here.

 

[enzo_gt]

All those situations you listed are normal checks during the Dev and test cycle.

But I just said why they can't catch all of those things during the test cycle. It's time constrained for one (we know it's usually not enough time for reasonable balance already), and they can never account for everything, especially in a game like Marvel where you can't possibly test and discover everything your engine enables you to do with a small group of testers and what gets reported from trade shows vs. several million playing it consistently within the first month of release.

EDIT: Well I suppose they can place their own rules and do stress tests, but you still really can't test for those emergent exploits.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

We can distrust capcom on a lot of things. I trust they will get 60fps parity for their fighting games though. I hope I am not wrong.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I'd say what MarkMan is talking about would be Complexity dropping their fighting game division if they didn't just sign Shady K. So my out-of-left-field guess is that MLG will get exclusive rights to Smash and Nintendo won't allow it at Evo.

I didn't read MarkMan's tweets as commentary on team sponsorships necessarily. I immediately thought of organizations backing out of sponsorships or future leagues.

Either way, it seems phrased to be more damaging than some players becoming free agents.

EG backing out of the FGC would be pretty damaging imho because of the message it would send to potential future corporations who might be interested in sponsoring the FGC.

 

[phaonaut]

I'd say what MarkMan is talking about would be Complexity dropping their fighting game division if they didn't just sign Shady K. So my out-of-left-field guess is that MLG will get exclusive rights to Smash and Nintendo won't allow it at Evo.

That would really suck, considering the two communities are really starting to work together nicely.

 

[theprodigy]

I'd say what MarkMan is talking about would be Complexity dropping their fighting game division if they didn't just sign Shady K. So my out-of-left-field guess is that MLG will get exclusive rights to Smash and Nintendo won't allow it at Evo.

please, Nintendo probably doesn't even know what MLG is!

 

[Omega]

Just saw this on Twitter, from MarkMan:







Hooo boy.

wasn't there some earth shattering consequences because of the whole collusion drama at VxG/NLBC Spooky raging demon?

I still don't know what happened.

 

[Dahbomb]

wasn't there some earth shattering consequences because of the whole collusion drama at VxG/NLBC Spooky raging demon?

I still don't know what happened.

Didn't you know?

Marvel got so angry at the collusion that they de-listed all their licensed video games starting with MVC3/UMVC3.

 

[enzo_gt]

I'd say what MarkMan is talking about would be Complexity dropping their fighting game division if they didn't just sign Shady K. So my out-of-left-field guess is that MLG will get exclusive rights to Smash and Nintendo won't allow it at Evo.

Can't see Nintendo doing this at all. They already have a problem with people profiting off of their games, now they're going to just abandon that to give MLG exclusive rights and take away from grassroots?

Leaving out EVO specifically would be pretty dumb, and MS sponsoring it isn't a good enough reason to force such a move.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

That's most of the cast though.

truuue

 

[toddhunter]

I'd say what MarkMan is talking about would be Complexity dropping their fighting game division if they didn't just sign Shady K. So my out-of-left-field guess is that MLG will get exclusive rights to Smash and Nintendo won't allow it at Evo.

I don't think Markman would be blowing it up on twitter if it was too serious or involving a competitor, so it would have to be something dumb about to be done.

Given that, you have to think of Capcom.

Left, left field reason is that Capcom is going to make top players sign a contract to allow them to play their games for monetary gain. These contracts will include clauses about what can be said about the games and directions about behaviour while in public.

 

[Clawww]

I don't think Markman would be blowing it up on twitter if it was too serious or involving a competitor, so it would have to be something dumb about to be done.

Given that, you have to think of Capcom.

Left, left field reason is that Capcom is going to make top players sign a contract to allow them to play their games for monetary gain. These contracts will include clauses about what can be said about the games and directions about behaviour while in public.

damn that theory is saucy as fuck, it would be so fucking hilarious if that went down

 

[Omega]

I don't think Markman would be blowing it up on twitter if it was too serious or involving a competitor, so it would have to be something dumb about to be done.

Given that, you have to think of Capcom.

Left, left field reason is that Capcom is going to make top players sign a contract to allow them to play their games for monetary gain. These contracts will include clauses about what can be said about the games and directions about behaviour while in public.

but Capcom said they were looking forward to reaffirming their presence in the FGC

i can't imagine this would help that.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't think Markman would be blowing it up on twitter if it was too serious or involving a competitor, so it would have to be something dumb about to be done.

Given that, you have to think of Capcom.

Left, left field reason is that Capcom is going to make top players sign a contract to allow them to play their games for monetary gain. These contracts will include clauses about what can be said about the games and directions about behaviour while in public.

I want this to happen just for the GAF blow up.

 

[biosnake20]

As a great FGC philosopher once said "It's not about playing anymore, it's all about the PAYPUH."