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[theprodigy]

I thought that the Dota 2 tournament MLG ran in Columbus a couple months back was a great event. Best I think they've ever done.

My issues with how MLG ran their fighting game events a couple years back boil down to two main things:
1) Extended Set/Continuation Rule
2) Inapt scheduling for fighting games. Long breaks between matches work great for Starcraft, Dota, and LoL, but not so well when a match ends in 10 minutes.

yeah pretty much
although really, I'm pretty sure everyone hates MLG's continuation rules, so I dunno why it still exists

 

[Shouta]

here's a video i made showing some sf4 dhalsim safe jump setups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn-cv_zWCIY

Oooh, I would welcome more offensive sim play.

 

[UltraDavid]

ESGN is the worst name for a competitive gaming channel, or whatever it is. They want to be like ESPN, but they don't watch ESPN. If they did, they'd know ESPN is horrible and no sane organization would want to be like them at all.

would rt

 

[BakedYams]

Oooh, I would welcome more offensive sim play.

Yeah, some players make Dhalsim look like a rushdown character, it's very tantalizing.

 

[Hitokage]

No way, it'll all work out. Tim Tebow can't play football anymore, so he's going to start playing esports and ESGN will get Skip Bayless on board and.... hahhahahaahhaha

 

[kirblar]

The 4 MLG events I went to where fantastic. EVO quality event if not better in some ways. There's a reason so many NRS guys like Jr are high on MLG.

What they don't understand is that MLG isn't a sustainable model.

 

[Dahbomb]

How does this help the average tourney participant though. I want these events to be better for everybody to attend, not just top players. More stations, more room, more games. Have both, but goal should be to have better events for everybody, not just the top placers and worried what they get. Seems like everybody wants us to worry about them all the time.

That's why I said why can't we have both? Also the E sports events seem to have a lot of set ups to play casuals at.

I think for E Sports events they need to have Leagues. Any one can sign up for a League but you don't start getting paid until you rise in the Leagues. The A tier Leagues will have full E Sports coverage and then there could be like a championship among the best players for a ton of money.

Basically similar to what Capcom did for Capcom Cup but on a wider scale. The average player will still have a chance and participate but the best of the best will move on to play for the big bucks at a bigger stage. Bigger stage means more viewers and sponsors.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

here's a video i made showing some sf4 dhalsim safe jump setups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn-cv_zWCIY

Snip! Thanks UD!
Do you have any safe meaties with throw to IAT back jumping strong/crouching strong?

 

[UltraDavid]

Yeah, some players make Dhalsim look like a rushdown character, it's very tantalizing.

the more i think about it, the more i think he can be played with strong spurts of offense. he can't be rushdown, but he can convert an opportunity into an offensive chance. if it works out, he does damage and can continue the offense. if it doesn't, he end up with better positioning anyway.

Snip! Thanks UD!
Do you have any safe meaties with throw to IAT back jumping strong/crouching strong?

ooo, no i don't. do you? if not, i'll put that in my notes to work on. great idea in any case!

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

How does this help the average tourney participant though. I want these events to be better for everybody to attend, not just top players. More stations, more room, more games. Have both, but goal should be to have better events for everybody, not just the top placers and worried what they get. Seems like everybody wants us to worry about them all the time.

True but more money does = better tournament experience for everyone. I'm not just pumping up MLG because I made money. It was great overall for everyone. The high production values and venue meant it had tons of setups for casuals, plenty of room to watch the big matches and time for 3/5 to give everyone more play time. Everyone of every skill level I've known that went to MLG for MK was impressed.

 

[Beckx]

What they don't understand is that MLG isn't a sustainable model.

And that when your game is no longer top dog, you're out (hi, Halo).

 

[commanderpepper]

here's a video i made showing some sf4 dhalsim safe jump setups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn-cv_zWCIY

Are there any other safe jumps in the game that relies on the opponent's animation when being knocked down. This is the first time I've seen of waiting until the opponent's body stops bouncing before jumping.

 

[kirblar]

And that when your game is no longer top dog, you're out (hi, Halo).

There's a reason MTG's pro tour is referred to (derisively) as the Promotional Tour. It comes out of the marketing budget.

 

[theprodigy]

True but more money does = better tournament experience for everyone. I'm not just pumping up MLG because I made money. It was great overall for everyone. The high production values and venue meant it had tons of setups for casuals, plenty of room to watch the big matches and time for 3/5 to give everyone more play time. Everyone of every skill level I've known that went to MLG for MK was impressed.

all <100 or so of them?

And that when your game is no longer top dog, you're out (hi, Halo).

and now Halo's dead because they never had anything else
:lol

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Wasn't really paying attention to when exactly but both Ultradavid and casperOne became members recently. Congrats now you too can Deckard Cain without fear of permaban.

 

[UltraDavid]

True but more money does = better tournament experience for everyone. I'm not just pumping up MLG because I made money. It was great overall for everyone. The high production values and venue meant it had tons of setups for casuals, plenty of room to watch the big matches and time for 3/5 to give everyone more play time. Everyone of every skill level I've known that went to MLG for MK was impressed.

i only went to the one in anaheim but it was pretty boring. there were lots of stations the first day but they only allowed warmups, not casuals, so if your tourney day was done you could no longer use them. and the next day all those setups were gone. very few people showed up for fighting games and we were drowned out by the much much bigger starcraft & lol events that were 30 feet away. there was huge downtime between matches as well, like at least as much downtime between as actual gameplay time. it was not a good event for fighting game purposes.

hopefully they learned from all that though

 

[BakedYams]

And that when your game is no longer top dog, you're out (hi, Halo).

Sad days.

 

[CurlyW]

yeah pretty much
although really, I'm pretty sure everyone hates MLG's continuation rules, so I dunno why it still exists

That's part of the reason that the Dota 2 event was so great. They didn't have the rule there because it was round robin. (Also in a hilarious bit of self-contradiction, they don't use it for MOBAs anyway because it would take too long.)

 

[Threi]

Yeah, some players make Dhalsim look like a rushdown character, it's very tantalizing.

Sim can really rush down deejay...its pretty hilarious when you see it happen

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

i only went to the one in anaheim but it was pretty boring. there were lots of stations the first day but they only allowed warmups, not casuals, so if your tourney day was done you could no longer use them. and the next day all those setups were gone. very few people showed up for fighting games and we were drowned out by the much much bigger starcraft & lol events that were 30 feet away. there was huge downtime between matches as well, like at least as much downtime between as actual gameplay time. it was not a good event for fighting game purposes.

hopefully they learned from all that though

Anaheim 2012? I was there and thought it was one of the best tournaments of 2012.

My only complaint was having a bunch of huge matches off stream and going on at the same time.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

care to explain why?

FGC and esports don't mix well.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

the more i think about it, the more i think he can be played with strong spurts of offense. he can't be rushdown, but he can convert an opportunity into an offensive chance. if it works out, he does damage and can continue the offense. if it doesn't, he end up with better positioning anyway.



ooo, no i don't. do you? if not, i'll put that in my notes to work on. great idea in any case!

I see LuckyD play with this in his neutral and when FChamp played El PoloLoco against his Vega. Not sure if they were styling/trolling but it looked gross/awesome.

Found some LuckyD footage

also, AfroCole (spelling right?) uses a lot of aggression in the Sim/Viper matchup. Thats when I got the idea of using well spaced drills/dives to attack. Since both characters need specific space to siezmo/yoga punch the dive closes and messes up the spacing and her reversal.

edit; that said, I really like Yang. It feels good to have a reversal even if its a crappy one.

 

[undersakura]

I'm a bit salty Champ is at the ESGN thing over any other American AE player.

There was a panel at UFGT about esports. A Twitch rep, UD, and another dude were talking. It really sums up how some? community leaders of the FGC feel about esports.

 

[theprodigy]

i only went to the one in anaheim but it was pretty boring. there were lots of stations the first day but they only allowed warmups, not casuals, so if your tourney day was done you could no longer use them. and the next day all those setups were gone. very few people showed up for fighting games and we were drowned out by the much much bigger starcraft & lol events that were 30 feet away. there was huge downtime between matches as well, like at least as much downtime between as actual gameplay time. it was not a good event for fighting game purposes.

hopefully they learned from all that though

yeah but didn't the most recent fighting games at MLG have horrific numbers
I remember Brawl (lol) actually pulling the highest numbers when it was around, although this was before Starcraft showed up and while Halo was on its way down

Spoiler

and remember, M2K and ADHD did COLLUSION first

 

[donkey show]

Streaming some EXVS here: http://www.twitch.tv/gevurah22

 

[Dahbomb]

That's part of the reason that the Dota 2 event was so great. They didn't have the rule there because it was round robin. (Also in a hilarious bit of self-contradiction, they don't use it for MOBAs anyway because it would take too long.)

If you are talking about the International.. that was Round Robin for the group stages after that it was the same as a FG double bracket tournament (just with no GF resets).

The could easily do it for fighting games as well only they would have to narrow down the last 16 players via league matches/regional tournaments. After you get down to 16 you split them into 2 groups of 8, Round Robin them and seed the bracket.

 

[theprodigy]

If you are talking about the International.. that was Round Robin for the group stages after that it was the same as a FG double bracket tournament (just with no GF resets).

The could easily do it for fighting games as well only they would have to narrow down the last 16 players via league matches/regional tournaments. After you get down to 16 you split them into 2 groups of 8, Round Robin them and seed the bracket.

no, he's talking about the MLG Dota event where there was a round robin with all 9 teams and the top 4 advanced to a single-elimination bracket
of course, 9 teams is really small, so yeah

 

[jbug617]

you know what when there was a lot of money on the line at Dreamhack, no US player attended. if it's about the money they should of went.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

yeah but didn't the most recent fighting games at MLG have horrific numbers
I remember Brawl (lol) actually pulling the highest numbers when it was around, although this was before Starcraft showed up and while Halo was on its way down

Spoiler

and remember, M2K and ADHD did COLLUSION first

MK Columbus, Anaheim and Dallas had a little over 100. Raleigh had like 64.

Soulcalibur, Tekken and KOF had way less than that. I think one KOF MLG had less than 30.

 

[Dahbomb]

no, he's talking about the MLG Dota event where there was a round robin with all 9 teams and the top 4 advanced to a single-elimination bracket
of course, 9 teams is really small, so yeah

That's a similar concept to what I described. Only its double elimination bracket at the end.

9 teams is also a really odd number.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

MLG also did two Arena events where they took the top 8 from the previous MLG and split it into two round robin brackets then the top 4 played a single elimination tournament. They were awesome.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Doesn't matter if you were... the timing and the analogy of the tweet was good enough to get a chuckle out of me.

Theres no analogy. And being an asshat about collusion in a conversation about being picked by professional leagues is the exact opposite of having good timing.

Anaheim 2012? I was there and thought it was one of the best tournaments of 2012.

My only complaint was having a bunch of huge matches off stream and going on at the same time.

Did David enter only KOF? were the games treated that differently? Too bad Juicebox doesn't post often to give his input.

 

[UltraDavid]

Anaheim 2012? I was there and thought it was one of the best tournaments of 2012.

My only complaint was having a bunch of huge matches off stream and going on at the same time.

yeah, 2012. weird dude, i really thought it sucked. the game action itself was good like any tournament can be, but the people i went with and i pretty much all thought it sucked otherwise. in fact for a while someone had a phone & a laptop showing the stream from whatever other fgc tourney was going on that day and a lot of us watched that instead. the second day we figured we'd be bored so we smuggled a bunch of booze in and ended up having a great time, but it was in spite of the fighting game side of the event, not because of it.

Did David enter only KOF? were the games treated that differently? Too bad Juicebox doesn't post often to give his input.

yeah i only entered kof, but as far as i could tell the games weren't treated differently

 

[theprodigy]

MK Columbus, Anaheim and Dallas had a little over 100. Raleigh had like 64.

Soulcalibur, Tekken and KOF had way less than that. I think one KOF MLG had less than 30.

yeah but you see, even the lowest Brawl event in 2010 pulled over 150 (Raleigh I think), while Columbus hit the cap of 256 I think
so....yeah that's pretty low

and yes Dahbomb, I'm well aware of The International's format, you don't need to tell me

 

[CurlyW]

That's a similar concept to what I described. Only its double elimination bracket at the end.

9 teams is also a really odd number.

An odd number of teams actually works out really well for a game like Dota. It means that each team gets the same number of matches on Dire and Radiant.

Edit: Also I didn't really like the Internationals format. The round robin group stage was good. I just hated that in the bracket stage, winners matches were BO3 and losers matches were BO1, especially since at the time Dire side was too strong. It would've been better and easier to just eliminate the bottom 4 teams in each group following the round robins, then put the advancing 8 teams into a bracket (double or single). I also didn't like that Alliance didn't have any form of winners bracket advantage in the grand finals, though I understand why that was the case.

 

[Dahbomb]

Theres no analogy. And being an asshat about collusion in a conversation about being picked by professional leagues is the exact opposite of having good timing.

That's WHY its funny!

 

[Stabby McSter]

FGC and esports don't mix well.

but there's the nba

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

yeah but you see, even the lowest Brawl event in 2010 pulled over 150 (Raleigh I think), while Columbus hit the cap of 256 I think
so....yeah that's pretty low

Yeah I guess but to us it was a good turnout. Enough they kept us on for the full season. When MLG Dallas was announced they capped it at 64 which we ended up doubling.

 

[nycfurby]

yeah, 2012. weird dude, i really thought it sucked. the game action itself was good like any tournament can be, but the people i went with and i pretty much all thought it sucked otherwise. in fact for a while someone had a phone & a laptop showing the stream from whatever other fgc tourney was going on that day and a lot of us watched that instead. the second day we figured we'd be bored so we smuggled a bunch of booze in and ended up having a great time, but it was in spite of the fighting game side of the event, not because of it.



yeah i only entered kof, but as far as i could tell the games weren't treated differently

I felt like if anything it was only boring cause the KOF side didn't show up. It's true that it wasn't a fg event in the sense that it didnt have any specialty stuff like arcade st for example, and the indie booths/casual stations with all sort of poverty games, but it was fun chilling with everyone and that sombrero you wore for your interview had me dying. MK9 side was crazy hype though. Not only that they got invited to NYC (which was a great exhibition event) so that could explain some of 16bits hype

 

[MrDaravon]

yeah, 2012. weird dude, i really thought it sucked. the game action itself was good like any tournament can be, but the people i went with and i pretty much all thought it sucked otherwise. in fact for a while someone had a phone & a laptop showing the stream from whatever other fgc tourney was going on that day and a lot of us watched that instead. the second day we figured we'd be bored so we smuggled a bunch of booze in and ended up having a great time, but it was in spite of the fighting game side of the event, not because of it.

I remember pictures of this actually.

 

[CurlyW]

yeah, 2012. weird dude, i really thought it sucked. the game action itself was good like any tournament can be, but the people i went with and i pretty much all thought it sucked otherwise. in fact for a while someone had a phone & a laptop showing the stream from whatever other fgc tourney was going on that day and a lot of us watched that instead. the second day we figured we'd be bored so we smuggled a bunch of booze in and ended up having a great time, but it was in spite of the fighting game side of the event, not because of it.

Am I wrong, or was CEO the other tournament that day? It must've been either that or ECT.

 

[Infinite]

I understand that these players want more money but at the end of the day y'all playing video games for a dollar. Like nah bruh

 

[kirblar]

I understand that these players want more money but at the end of the day y'all playing video games for a dollar. Like nah bruh

Are they really surprised that the money dries up when there's no longer a game to promote? (This is a big reason why constant SF4 style updates are a net positive for the community.)

 

[Coda]

AttractGroove's FGC Playlist exploring hip hop, breaks, jazz, soul, funkadelic grooves for your sparring sessions with fighting games.

Link to zip file (mp3s)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/t6j3yunkfb0gxcb/AttractGroove's%20FGC%20Playlist.zip

Link to XML iTunes Playlist File
http://www.mediafire.com/view/g1ik37cnnzaccxz/AttractGroove's%20FGC%20Playlist.xml

Cop this and enjoy! Honestly fighting games need this music to accompany the hype. I suggest putting it on an iPod if you have one or USB stick in order to splice in with the game audio.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

MK9 side was crazy hype though. Not only that they got invited to NYC (which was a great exhibition event) so that could explain some of 16bits hype

Oh man I'm getting riled up just thinking about all the hype....Carl vs. CD Jr 2.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

Am I wrong, or was CEO the other tournament that day? It must've been either that or ECT.

ECT. Then MLG Raleigh took place the same weekend as Summer Jam.

 

[theprodigy]

you know, since we're talking about this right now:

which game has had the most real grassroots support throughout its history

 

[nycfurby]

you know, since we're talking about this right now:

which game has had the most real grassroots support throughout its history

Easy answer, it's obviously Super Turbo

 

[TheChits]

AttractGroove's FGC Playlist exploring hip hop, breaks, jazz, soul, funkadelic grooves for your sparring sessions with fighting games.

Link to zip file (mp3s)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/t6j3yunkfb0gxcb/AttractGroove's%20FGC%20Playlist.zip

Link to XML iTunes Playlist File
http://www.mediafire.com/view/g1ik37cnnzaccxz/AttractGroove's%20FGC%20Playlist.xml

Cop this and enjoy! Honestly fighting games need this music to accompany the hype. I suggest putting it on an iPod if you have one or USB stick in order to splice in with the game audio.

Gonna check this out. Always up for discovering good tunes, thanks <3

 

[kirblar]

you know, since we're talking about this right now:

which game has had the most real grassroots support throughout its history

Melee.