You were the one that came up with the thread title
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=56936048&postcount=2142
Fighting Games Weekly | July 13-19 | Stream Monster Yearly: Evolution 2015
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
You were the one that came up with the thread title
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=56936048&postcount=2142
I think the easier way to look at is that, in the last 2 top 3 at big tournaments (let's just say CM and CEO)... did the players who won those matches consistently out play the other in those matches?
I would say yes. At CEO, Jan out played ChrisG and Full Schedule (thoroughly in fact when it came to making pure reads, decision making and in terms of defense) and then Full Schedule out played both ChrisG and Jan (in terms of reads, decision making, adjustment and space control).
At CM, I would say that ChrisG out played his opponents in those matches. He was making better decisions, had better reactions, had less errors and his play was generally more solid. In the Cloud vs Clockwork match I would say it was a close match (it was 3-1 but one of the match was super close that came down to anchor Strider vs anchor Dante so it was basically a 3-2 match) and it came down more to who made the least mistakes and made the right guesses (ie. did Clockwork guess right on the incoming). While Cloud played more solid, I wouldn't quite say that he thoroughly out played Clockwork because there was definitely a strong element of "Zero gonna Zero" involved in that match.
I would say yes. At CEO, Jan out played ChrisG and Full Schedule (thoroughly in fact when it came to making pure reads, decision making and in terms of defense) and then Full Schedule out played both ChrisG and Jan (in terms of reads, decision making, adjustment and space control).
At CM, I would say that ChrisG out played his opponents in those matches. He was making better decisions, had better reactions, had less errors and his play was generally more solid. In the Cloud vs Clockwork match I would say it was a close match (it was 3-1 but one of the match was super close that came down to anchor Strider vs anchor Dante so it was basically a 3-2 match) and it came down more to who made the least mistakes and made the right guesses (ie. did Clockwork guess right on the incoming). While Cloud played more solid, I wouldn't quite say that he thoroughly out played Clockwork because there was definitely a strong element of "Zero gonna Zero" involved in that match.
Speaking of god slaying, it was awesome seeing Marn beat Chris G, only to face him again in losers and getting knocked out.
Sweet. Hope I can watch this.
Did you really get outplayed, or did the universe conspire against you?
Man, I remember that Arthur was supposed to be a beast. Crazy what happened to him afterwards.
Also heads up for those heading to EVO, gaf member Rotanibor is hosting the Vampire Savior side tourney again this year!
At this pace, it's looking to be the biggest VSav tourney outside of Japan. I'll be playing and so will Haitani and a bunch of other killers (Note: I am not a killer). Also shoutouts to Mad Catz for hosting the finals stream!
If you wanna join in or want more info, hit up Roty over twitter by responding to this: https://twitter.com/ROTANIBOR/status/620678249593466880
Sweet. Hope I can watch this.
Did you really get outplayed, or did the universe conspire against you?
Man, I remember that Arthur was supposed to be a beast. Crazy what happened to him afterwards.
Karsticles
Member
I remember you complaining that Sentinel was OP, too. Haha.
Fchamp is the reason folks thought she was so bad. Dude complained a lot.
They didn't remove the characters, but they did remove his team functionality. Almost the same thing, really.
You can't change the timeline :v
Karsticles
Member
I've still only ever played one Arthur that knew what the hell he was doing. This guy Patrick in Chicago had an Arthur that was so nasty I would burn X-Factor to get rid of him. Constant jumps into j.S canceled daggers for a wall of pressure. Some folks j.S cancel crossbows, but j.S cancel into dagger is so hard to do consistently. A bit too high, and the dagger misses your opponent. A bit too low, and the dagger doesn't come out in time.
There was supposed to be a Capcom game with VS physics until SFxT did badly and spooked Capcom to cancel all games. Shocking Alberto was talking about it in the Tekken 7 thread.
Lostconfused
Member
Sounds like an execution barrier to me.
I don't care what anyone says. That piece of metal garbage should be banned in all future games. Such a stupid character.
Really? Whaaaaaaaaat?
SFXTK could have done wonderfully. There was a lot of hype behind it but Capcom suits are entirely responsible for that games failure by adding gems and useless pandora mode along with on-disc DLC that was released 6 months later. I bought the game day 1 and enjoyed it but a release like that nowadays? I won't even go near it.
They shouldn't be shocked it failed with the type of policies they had. Otherwise, you have two of the biggest fighting game brands doing a crossover, it would be hard to imagine the game doing so bad. I bought it just because it had Tekken in the title.
Yeah, I dropped them both in Ultimate. The team was just no longer viable like it was in vanilla.
StriKeVillain
Banned
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Karsticles
Member
Execution barrier + most people not knowing about it.
Link? I have known this, but it is nice to see it confirmed.
c.M unblockable.
Apparently, Inafune thought fans would appreciate the joke.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Haha, awesome.
Marvel is all execution. The skill curve for the game is ridiculously sharp. Personally, I think it's by far one of the most demanding games mentally and physically, and the problems with that are all too clear.
Even over melee?
I thought it was funny, but now when I think of SFxT the first things that come to mind are DLC gems and Fat Megaman. :/
Karsticles
Member
Around 55 seconds has the Arthur tech I was talking about:
https://youtu.be/6l1QpqE_kHE
In terms of execution skill, Melee is probably the highest skill ceiling game ever. There's just a ridiculous degree of freedom in terms of inputs per second combined with stuff like L canceling.
https://youtu.be/6l1QpqE_kHE
I think Marvel has a more stressful neutral. One mistake almost certainly loses you a character, and maybe an entire game. Melee gives you 4 stocks to work with, and they are all clean and fresh at the start with no incoming mixups.
In terms of execution skill, Melee is probably the highest skill ceiling game ever. There's just a ridiculous degree of freedom in terms of inputs per second combined with stuff like L canceling.
First one is Modjo - Lady; no clue about the second one
Karsticles
Member
God. Capcom Fighters AND Darkstalkers lost to SFxT? Fuck that game forever.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Incidentally speaking losses due to sloppy execution are the most frustrating losses to me in any medium. Nothing feels worse than knowing that it wasn't that you got outplayed, you just straight up dropped the ball. Still miss simple stuff like QCF inputs all the dang time and I don't know if extreme remedies like the jwong training drill would even help.
the execs at Capcom are such idiots. It still boggles my mind that they expected Darkstalkers Resurrection to sell like a million units.
What's the Jwong training drill?
What's the Jwong training drill?
To me, one of the best things about fighting games is that there is a clear definition of getting outplayed. Not some convoluted, subjective mess of criteria or rubric. No judges or popularity contest. Getting outplayed means losing and losing means getting outplayed, period. Anything else is scrub-a-dub. And I think this applies to any fighting game with a traditional health bar/rounds structure.
imo wins are wins and tournaments count
The fallout for that was glorious. Chris was complaining on twitter about not making the team (who was put together by Noel of all people.) Chris thought he should have been on it because he had been winning a lot of weeklies. Justin backed Noel by saying weeklies don't really matter. Which prompted Chris to say that he hoped to never get to the point where winning any tournament wouldn't matter to him.
Flash forward a year or two and he was firmly in his "who cares about winning evo" mode. Shit was surreal to me.
Svartafaran
Member
Any chance of getting a MKX dlc reveal?
Isn't that most games?
Karsticles
Member
I've been learning Jigglypuff in Smash for the last 2 days, and sometimes I SD because I forget how many jumps I have, or I miss a Rest. Getting taunted for that stuff is so irritating. Especially when I have been kicking someone's ass for 10 games in a row, I SD on accident, they taunt, and then leave. What the fuck is the mentality there? Do they really feel better about themselves?
You know, the worst thing in the world is letting regular business men run a gaming company. They really just don't get the medium. Hopefully Capcom will one day be saved by Ono running everything.
I would love to be playing a new team-based fighter and Darkstalkers game right now... :-(
You don't think it applies to Smash, then? I think it applies to everything.
Damn I didn't know that. That's super rough. I'm okay if we can still get a new vs game coming up, but the death of darkstalkers sucks.
Master Milk
Member
It reads more like all three games lost to execs not knowing how to read their market.
commanderpepper
Member
I think you'll have to wait for Tremor to be released to see more characters. We might see a Tremor trailer at EVO.
Karsticles
Member
:-(
I still think SFxT is a crap game. Day 1 gameplay looked awful. I have no idea why people hyped it up. Gems were an atrocity, but I don't think the game would have been successful without gems or DLC. That said, I don't disagree that in the end, it's all the fault of a soulless suit somewhere.
direct_quote
Member
I fucking hope Capcom execs don't apply the darkstalkers sales logic to cancel DMC5....
.la1n
Member
Well, they didn't so much lose to it as they were victims of it's after math. I knew about Darkstalkers but hearing that a Capcom All Stars game was legit in development just twist the knife. Come on Microsoft or Nintendo, you know you want to scoop one of those.
Smooth Operator
Member
Nah i think we're good.
definitely applies to smash. tbh i only said that to account for whatever weird games people play competitively where this might not hold true (of which i do not know). oh well
I knew the moment that shit hit the fan with SFxT that the game was pure poison.
However I wouldn't give up on a Capcom Fighters just yet. Something has to fill the gap for these flashy VS titles and Capcom knows how big the demand is for content from their large universe of characters. I'm sure the idea of working without having to worry about IP and licensing nonsense sounds very appealing to the higher ups.
Karsticles
Member
Ugh. The last thing we need is games splitting the community up over multiple consoles. Especially Nintendo - might as well kill the game right there.
Ah, okay.
By the way, there's no one I want to win Evo this year more than you. You have really stepped up your play since last year.
Question: I notice you do raw S + Strider assist with Vergil on incoming a lot. Why do you go for that over a more traditional Vergil mix-up? Are you banking on unfamiliarity, or...?
The gains had through bypassing licensing are arguable. The issue is whether the game can sell without Marvel. I wager that the Marvel side of the roster sells a lot more copies to casuals than the Capcom side. Capcom is so bare on its IPs right now...
Svartafaran
Member
Damn, was hoping for a new character reveal
The Lone Dragon
Member
Did you read the link? If so, then that definitely isn't the take home message from that post.
Let's not turn SFxT into another Capcom scapegoat. We already have a bunch of millenials thinking that SF3 destroyed Street Fighter, when it didn't.
SFxT sounds more like a victim, to me.
YAAASSSSSSS THE DANCE THAT DANCES ONNNNNNN
I'm really mad right now. I know its over video games but god damn it Capcom, we don't ask for much.
Melee's learning curve isn't that bad because it has so many inherent concessions for accessibility. Marvel has so many "hidden," basic mechanics, and on top of it there's the team metagame. With Marvel it's either you know about DHCs and the cinematic super glitch and progressively everything past that or you know nothing, John Doe.
It's rare that you see a video game that's not even just lacking in redeemable qualities within the game, but it's sheer existence also stops fun from happening elsewhere. It truly is a unicorn.
Karsticles
Member
Smash servers are down for maintenance right now. A patch on Evo week would be hilarious.
In the end, every decision is made by a person - obviously, SFxT can't be responsible for anything on its own. However, a ton of things were fucked up by SFxT. We could have gotten another 8 characters in UMvC3 if not for that garbage.