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[Shouta]

By that definition, every time ChrisG is winning he's out playing the other guy.

Sure because there aren't many Morrigans that can lock down folks like Chris can. That's outplaying someone if they can't figure a way to answer it. I mean sure, there's a bit of the character issue there too but how many folks can do what Chris does fairly consistently?

 

[Azure J]

Man ChrisG's vanilla team was straight butt cheeks. Wasn't it like ryu/wesker/ammy or some shit like that? Way too fair of a team in that game and he still produced results with it. He won a tournament and got plenty of top 8's with it.

The thing I remember most about it was how PR Rog hit him with some slimy shit with Vergil at one of the first Ultimate big tourneys (I think it was like CEO '12) and mind fucked Chris into experimenting with other teams ultimately leading to the Morrigan/Doom "troll" team that wound up being the silliest thing in the meta. :lol

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Yipes, Flocker, PR Rog were always below the top 3 because they didn't travel as much and were more inconsistent. Time tells a different story because Rog and Flocker had periods of time where they were on FIRE, and times when they were fumbling or not as engaged in the game. Yipes had a ton of great performances marred by a ton of tournaments where he was in hangover mode clearly. This is part of the reason why Flocker and even to some extent Rog and Yipes don't get the respect for their skill.

I think you can make just as good of a case for Combofiend in those ranks. Overall the God thing is a bit forced like it needs to be like it was in the MvC2 era which was much different and longer.

Of course this is all in the context of the first couple years of umvc3. Nowadays, Champ Chris and Justin are clearly ahead of everyone else.

The thing I remember most about it was how PR Rog hit him with some slimy shit with Vergil at one of the first Ultimate big tourneys (I think it was like CEO '12) and mind fucked Chris into experimenting with other teams ultimately leading to the Morrigan/Doom "troll" team that wound up being the silliest thing in the meta. :lol

Winter Brawl I think.

 

[Dahbomb]

Sure because there aren't many Morrigans that can lock down folks like Chris can. That's outplaying someone if they can't figure a way to answer it. I mean sure, there's a bit of the character issue there too but how many folks can do what Chris does fairly consistently?

At least 3 people can and one can do it without using Missiles. Other people have won with Morrigan so this is not Chris's domain anymore.

This whole "how many folks can do it consistently" is a bad reasoning to use because very few Zero players actually win majors yet no one is going to argue that beating someone with Zero loops is out playing them. Or that beating someone with Dark Phoenix is out playing them just because only FChamp can do it consistently. Or that beating someone with the Firebrand loop is out playing them.

 

[Karsticles]

Yipes, Flocker, PR Rog were always below the top 3 because they didn't travel as much and were more inconsistent. Time tells a different story because Rog and Flocker had periods of time where they were on FIRE, and times when they were fumbling or not as engaged in the game. Yipes had a ton of great performances marred by a ton of tournaments where he was in hangover mode clearly. This is part of the reason why Flocker and even to some extent Rog and Yipes don't get the respect for their skill.

I think you can make just as good of a case for Combofiend in those ranks. Overall the God thing is a bit forced like it needs to be like it was in the MvC2 era which was much different and longer.

In Vanilla Marvel, ComboFiend could have been there. She-Hulk got neutered in Ultimate, and he never recovered from that. Then he sacrificed himself to give us SFV. When Marvel 4 comes out...

 

[notworksafe]

He was rocking out to Limp Bizkit's Rollin' earlier.

I kid you not.

Maybe he's an Undertaker fan

 

[Shouta]

At least 3 people can and one can do it without using Missiles. Other people have won with Morrigan so this is not Chris's domain anymore.

This whole "how many folks can do it consistently" is a bad reasoning to use because very few Zero players actually win majors yet no one is going to argue that that beating someone with Zero loops is out playing them.

You fail to recognize that loops are a part of the "one fuck up and die because of mega-combo issue" Getting looped isn't getting outplayed, it's getting comboed to death. It's inherently different from Morrigan as when you're in a Morrigan situation you still have control of your char, getting looped = can't do anything unless they drop it.

 

[QisTopTier]

At least 3 people can and one can do it without using Missiles. Other people have won with Morrigan so this is not Chris's domain anymore.

This whole "how many folks can do it consistently" is a bad reasoning to use because very few Zero players actually win majors yet no one is going to argue that beating someone with Zero loops is out playing them. Or that beating someone with Dark Phoenix is out playing them just because only FChamp can do it consistently. Or that beating someone with the Firebrand loop is out playing them.

So basically marvel is a bad tournament game.

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[enzo_gt]

In Vanilla Marvel, ComboFiend could have been there. She-Hulk got neutered in Ultimate, and he never recovered from that. Then he sacrificed himself to give us SFV. When Marvel 4 comes out...

Wasn't he one of the only players to place Top 8 year-to-year at EVO? I could've swore there was something like him being the only one so high in x amount of years back to back.

EDIT: It was 4th back to back 2011 and 2012.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I think Yipes was one of the gods for about a month or so. Then he biffed it big in a few tournaments and earned himself an "Expelled From Olympus" FGC-GAF subtitle.

In Vanilla Marvel, ComboFiend could have been there. She-Hulk got neutered in Ultimate, and he never recovered from that. Then he sacrificed himself to give us SFV. When Marvel 4 comes out...

He got #4 at EVO in both the first vanilla and ultimate tournaments, so he adapted pretty well. If he'd stuck with the game he would've been among the deities.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I think Yipes was one of the gods for about a month or so. Then he biffed it big in a few tournaments and earned himself an "Expelled From Olympus" FGC-GAF subtitle.

Now that you mention it I think I remember that discussion.

 

[Dahbomb]

You fail to recognize that loops are a part of the "one fuck up and die because of mega-combo issue" Getting looped isn't getting outplayed, it's getting comboed to death. It's inherently different from Morrigan as when you're in a Morrigan situation you still have control of your char, getting looped = can't do anything unless they drop it.

The control in many situations is non existent, you are just taking unavoidable chip damage for a long period of time and you can't do much about it or you just take fireball damage to the face and die quicker. It's like the Strider Doom trap from MVC2.

It's also like Vergil + Doom locking someone down for 20 seconds and then barraging them with Missiles + Swords for unimpeded chip. It's not out playing, it's executing a set up.

The whole Morrigan trap set up (or the Vergil set up) is the other end to the "combo'd to death" spectrum. It's just another of form of not getting to play.

 

[Karsticles]

Wasn't he one of the only players to place Top 8 year-to-year at EVO? I could've swore there was something like him being the only one so high in x amount of years back to back.

EDIT: It was 4th back to back 2011 and 2012.

Yeah, ComboFiend was a monster. You can tell he's a well-rounded thinker, too.

I think Yipes was one of the gods for about a month or so. Then he biffed it big in a few tournaments and earned himself an "Expelled From Olympus" FGC-GAF subtitle.

Hahaha. That would be great to see in a newscast.

Yipes
Ex-Olympian

 

[Parallax Scroll]

He got #4 at EVO in both the first vanilla and ultimate tournaments, so he adapted pretty well. If he'd stuck with the game he would've been among the deities.

I think he was the only one besides Champ and Justin (who have made top 8 every year of mvc3).

 

[Karsticles]

I feel like we need to reminisce about the history of MvC3 now.

Remember when the public got to play UMvC3 pre-release, and FChamp told SKill he was going to drop Phoenix because of how hard she got nerfed? Haha.

 

[Dahbomb]

Remember when S-kill swore that Vergil wouldn't be top tier and Phoenix Wright was godlike?

Remember when people thought Zero wasn't the best character in the game because no one had won a major/EVO with him yet?

Remember when people thought Morrigan wasn't that good because only ChrisG was winning with her?

Remember when Wesker was the best character in the game?

Remember when people used to get hype for TAC combos/infinites?

Remember when Spencer was top 5 in the game?

Remember when Justin Wong won a major with Iron Fist?

Remember when people used to say "when's Mahvel" as opposed to "fuck Mahvel"?

Remember when Marvel was actually on an incline as opposed to be on a decline?



Good, good times!

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Seth "Thor's Untapped Potential" Killian

 

[jbug617]

Spooky tweeted this pic. Quad-box for the stream? He said this is not the final form.

 

[biosnake20]

What happened in mvc2 with Justin will never happen again. In this day and age it's not possible anymore. There are too many good players and the games evolve too fast for someone to be dominant for that long. Even James Chen said that the 2ish year long run ChrisG had was somewhat close to what Justin had done in mvc2 you looked at how difficult it was to do either.

 

[Karsticles]

Remember when S-kill swore that Vergil wouldn't be top tier and Phoenix Wright was godlike?

Actually, my recollection is that SKill said Wright would either be the most broken thing ever in Marvel, or completely worthless.

Seth "Thor's Untapped Potential" Killian

A part of me wishes Abegen would just...give Thor a damn assist.

 

[Dahbomb]

What happened in mvc2 with Justin will never happen again. In this day and age it's not possible anymore. There are too many good players and the games evolve too fast for someone to be dominant for that long. Even James Chen said that the 2ish year long run ChrisG had was somewhat close to what Justin had done in mvc2 you looked at how difficult it was to do either.

What happened in MVC2 isn't going to happen again because a game like MVC2 is going to die out way faster now than it did back in the day.

 

[Anne]

Outside of an error(i.e. execution) leading to death, you get outplayed when you lose :v

 

[pixelish]

He was rocking out to Limp Bizkit's Rollin' earlier.

I kid you not.

this guy is an entertainer lol
http://oddshot.tv/shot/POONGKOTV_178_201507132213537364

 

[biosnake20]

Remember when Thor was the counter pick to morrigan/doom? Triforce thought he had cracked it.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

The control in many situations is non existent, you are just taking unavoidable chip damage for a long period of time and you can't do much about it or you just take fireball damage to the face and die quicker. It's like the Strider Doom trap from MVC2.

It's also like Vergil + Doom locking someone down for 20 seconds and then barraging them with Missiles + Swords for unimpeded chip. It's not out playing, it's executing a set up.

The whole Morrigan trap set up (or the Vergil set up) is the other end to the "combo'd to death" spectrum. It's just another of form of not getting to play.

It's a lot harder to quantify getting outplayed for Marvel due to how asymmetric team compositions can be.

Let's say you have two Zero May Cry players facing each other, and Player 1 guesses wrong and eats a zoop zoop. You can't really say P2 outplayed P1 in that situation. If patterns start emerging over time though, then you can start making judgment calls about player skill.

 

[enzo_gt]

I feel like we need to reminisce about the history of MvC3 now.

Remember when the public got to play UMvC3 pre-release, and FChamp told SKill he was going to drop Phoenix because of how hard she got nerfed? Haha.

The first not-even-a-year of MvC3 feels like an eternity in retrospect.

Semi-related but I'm more excited for the future of UMvC3 than ever right now, really seems like we're on the cusp of a sort of renaissance. Last night on UltraChen they discussed how the competitive scene has stabilized, and part of that includes people jumping to less-explored characters and making something meaningful out of them and injecting back diversity into a game people washed their hands clean of as being figured out.

Good characters/teams will still be good, but it seems like steadily over the past year and a half people have no problem running B teams and getting A levels of success with them beyond a cute or gimmicky stigma being applied to the team; never thought I'd be so happy about the contraction of the playerbase. Honzo (I think?) said this might be the year where we get more left field players and characters get into Top 8 and I'm inclined to believe him. Shuma the last two years, Iron Fist this year?

 

[StriKeVillain]

this guy is an entertainer lol
http://oddshot.tv/shot/POONGKOTV_178_201507132213537364

Haha, I love him.

He had the Space Jam theme playing earlier and in between matches he would go: HEY. YOU. WHATCHU GONNA DO?

:lol

 

[BakedYams]

One down, one to go. I'm comin for you next Yams. Get ready to shed tears of delicious salt.

Lets go breh, I'm ready any day.

when the hell was this?

Yipes beat Chris at Summer Jam one time in GF. People forget, Yipes did some crazy Dante/Mag setups that no one is replicating to this day. Kinda sad really cause when Yipes goes in, he goes in. GF at Capcom Cup when Marvel was there against Chris G, he beat Champ. People underrate Yipes cause he doesn't perform consistently but he certainly was a short-term god for a while until he got comfortable/lazy and just stuck to commentating.

Aside from the Flocker/PRRog stuff, this article is more relevant today than it was last year simply because what Clockwork said here is now more true.. the gap between the gods and the next batch of player is not that big anymore. This is why I am personally excited for this year's EVO, there will be some god slaying to be seen.

Heh, interesting to hear you say that now. I was considered a heretic for even mentioning this and now its a tantalizing spectacle for all to witness.

 

[jbug617]

What happened to Tron-Bonne. Her flame assist was good and she did good damage.

 

[Anne]

The first not-even-a-year of MvC3 feels like an eternity in retrospect.

Semi-related but I'm more excited for the future of UMvC3 than ever right now, really seems like we're on the cusp of a sort of renaissance. Last night on UltraChen they discussed how the competitive scene has stabilized, and part of that includes people jumping to less-explored characters and making something meaningful out of them and injecting back diversity into a game people washed their hands clean of as being figured out.

Good characters/teams will still be good, but it seems like steadily over the past year and a half people have no problem running B teams and getting A levels of success with them beyond a cute or gimmicky stigma being applied to the team; never thought I'd be so happy about the contraction of the playerbase. Honzo (I think?) said this might be the year where we get more left field players and characters get into Top 8 and I'm inclined to believe him. Shuma the last two years, Iron Fist this year?

Somebody is seeing the end stages of metagame lol It's a really fun part of the game if you understand it well. Not really a "renaissance" but it's a super cool part of a game's lifetime. It's around that time for Marvel 3.

 

[Vice]

What happened to Tron-Bonne. Her flame assist was good and she did good damage.

Her flame assist got nerfed and its difficult for her to get in against a lot of the better characters and teams.

 

[Dahbomb]

Heh, interesting to hear you say that now. I was considered a heretic for even mentioning this and now its a tantalizing spectacle for all to witness.

Didn't you say NO god would make top 8?

I am saying there will be god slaying which could happen before top 8 or during top 8 but saying that NO god would make top 8 is a crazy statement to make even IF it can potentially happen.

Shuma the last two years, Iron Fist this year?

Fuck no.. WT!!!

 

[enzo_gt]

Somebody is seeing the end stages of metagame lol It's a really fun part of the game if you understand it well. Not really a "renaissance" but it's a super cool part of a game's lifetime. It's around that time for Marvel 3.

Yeah I think that's the wrong term. But still, there was a very strong sentiment that this stage of the metagame just wouldn't exist because the Internet speeds up discovery and blah blah, but it might just be a function of time as opposed to accessibility.

 

[Azure J]

The first not-even-a-year of MvC3 feels like an eternity in retrospect.

Man, those first 9 months of Marvel 3 were some of the best times I've had with a GAF community and game ever. So much silly and so much intrigue over everything. I also realize that I really really miss Quotes and Marlinpie commentary now. Remember this?

 

[Clawww]

Wesker (and Taskmaster) are the true, honest Ryu type characters of MVC3.

fuck taskmaster though

 

[Seyavesh]

Fucking up, even a little bit, hurts a lot more in Marvel since combos can lead to death even at high health. Where choking it up in say, SF for example, has a much lower chance of causing you to lose the round/match except in specific situations. At the very minimum, it usually costs you a ton of place, way more than other games.

Getting outplayed would entail not being able to answer what your opponent is doing offensively and defensively, It boils down to whether you are are at their mercy not when it comes to those choices, I think. This doesn't quite as often in Marvel because of the death combos but the best example off the top of my head would be when Fchamp plays against any Haggar and is just zipping around the screen with Mags to avoid pressure and to deal damage that Haggar can't do anything. That's getting outplayed, to me.Not the joke outplayed but an actual outplayed, lol

on the first thing, yeah that's what i mean- it's not really something new to marvel insomuch as the nature of the game itself that's been there since day 1 of vanilla

as for outplaying: would you define this as 'outright control of the situation for a player', then? because that happens extremely often- it's simply so textbook that it's not even worth watching given that the moments where the other player even matters are so slim. however, in the moment-to-moment plays at the highest levels the situation is shifting so often that maintaining control of the match is significantly harder so the question of how much someone is getting hit from being 'outplayed' is what i'm wondering based on the definition here. what do you see as a 'fuck up' and what do you see as a 'necessary gamble'?

i don't think your definition cleanly fits for marvel 3 because of the varied situations that arise. there aren't 100% answers

my personal outlook simply boils down to 'are they a better decision maker than the other player at the given time?' which is pretty generic as-is but it lets you boil the game down to the moment-by-moment plays to determine how much someone is getting 'outplayed'- see justin vs. any zero- the opening gambit is heavily stacked in zero's favor and yet justin manages to get grabs or solid hits very often despite that. he makes the right decisions to get to that point- it's 'outplaying' to an extent but not as much as he has to do if the zero escapes and radically increases the number of options they have for approaching the situation at hand while wolverine + storm/akuma assist's options remain the same or weaken based on the spacing

like, do you believe that morrigan/missiles curbstomping phoenix wright is a situation where outplaying occurs due to how much natural control her options have vs his? i know there are folks who believe the competitive extent of outplaying extends to character selection but i feel that's not really the same thing- it's not a display of skill as much as it is a matter of competitive viability

sorry if this doesn't make sense, i'm pretty terrible at getting my point across

 

[Anne]

Yeah I think that's the wrong term. But still, there was a very strong sentiment that this stage of the metagame just wouldn't exist because the Internet speeds up discovery and blah blah, but it might just be a function of time as opposed to accessibility.

A game has to be pretty close ended or extremely underplayed for it to not happen I think. The internet just makes it happen faster in some stages.

 

[StriKeVillain]

Looks like Rog should be ok. Just had food poisoning.

 

[pixelish]

poongko is ready to hit the club in vegas this weekend
http://oddshot.tv/shot/POONGKOTV_178_201507132224442777

 

[BakedYams]

Didn't you say NO god would make top 8?

I am saying there will be god slaying which could happen before top 8 or during top 8 but saying that NO god would make top 8 is a crazy statement to make even IF it can potentially happen.

I'm calling it, none of them will be in top 8.

 

[enzo_gt]

Man, those first 9 months of Marvel 3 were some of the best times I've had with a GAF community and game ever. So much silly and so much intrigue over everything. I also realize that I really really miss Quotes and Marlinpie commentary now. Remember this?

Hell fucking yes.

I still pity those who didn't tune into The Break during those times. Some of the most entertaining moments while being a stream monster for sure.

Also don't mind the images that no longer exist because of min.us, but I thought the recap of pre-MvC3 I did for the UMvC3 OT was pretty good. I still laugh at Teknopathetic's comments on Phoenix most, they were puzzling even at that time.

 

[Karsticles]

Remember the day 1 "unbeatable" Arthur + Sentinel Force NerdJosh spammed online for the first week?

Lets go breh, I'm ready any day.



Yipes beat Chris at Summer Jam one time in GF. People forget, Yipes did some crazy Dante/Mag setups that no one is replicating to this day. Kinda sad really cause when Yipes goes in, he goes in. GF at Capcom Cup when Marvel was there against Chris G, he beat Champ. People underrate Yipes cause he doesn't perform consistently but he certainly was a short-term god for a while until he got comfortable/lazy and just stuck to commentating.



Heh, interesting to hear you say that now. I was considered a heretic for even mentioning this and now its a tantalizing spectacle for all to witness.

IMO, Yipes could have ended up one of the gods if he would have picked up Strider. Get rid of that anchor Magneto crap and run something like Dante/Vergil/Strider.

What happened to Tron-Bonne. Her flame assist was good and she did good damage.

She got nerfed crazy hard in UMvC3. They removed her basic hit confirm, nerfed her damage output (IIRC), and annihilated her assist. Then they buffed Zero.

Hell fucking yes.

I still pity those who didn't tune into The Break during those times. Some of the most entertaining moments while being a stream monster for sure.

Also don't mind the images that no longer exist because of min.us, but I thought the recap of pre-MvC3 I did for the UMvC3 OT was pretty good. I still laugh at Teknopathetic's comments on Phoenix most, they were puzzling even at that time.

Oh man, I am reading these quotes. So much gold. I remember folks saying no one would ever use Phoenix.

Originally Posted by QisTopTier

Originally Posted by Sinatar

Wow Arthur is looking kinda beastly, unexpected.

I don't know why anyone thought he wasn't going to be super good.... oh well at least I don't have to explain stuff to people about it anymore.

lol lol lol

 

[Valkerionseven]

poongko is ready to hit the club in vegas this weekend
http://oddshot.tv/shot/POONGKOTV_178_201507132224442777

our boy is going to be fit as hell if he keeps dancing on the select screen like that lol.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Seeing the experimental day one teams of MvC3 was really fantastic as they continued to evolve over the coming months.

I attended the first official MvC3 major (I believe it was either Summer Jam, Winter Brawl or NEC) and I remember thinking... god this game is so cheap and slimy to play at high level. You need to be the cheapest, slimiest person alive to be good at Marvel. lol

 

[Azure J]

Hell fucking yes.

I still pity those who didn't tune into The Break during those times. Some of the most entertaining moments while being a stream monster for sure.

Also don't mind the images that no longer exist because of min.us, but I thought the recap of pre-MvC3 I did for the UMvC3 OT was pretty good. I still laugh at Teknopathetic's comments on Phoenix most, they were puzzling even at that time.

It also helps that The Break played on the factual best stage as a standard when streaming versus everyone else with the dark assed Training Stage. Asgard for life.

Edit: Still can't help but bust out laughing everytime I see DY_nasty's "Tupac was a pussy" line. :lol

 

[jbug617]

PR Rog use to play Wolverine, Felecia and Rocket.

 

[Sayah]

I preferred Vanilla over Ultimate because She-Hulk and Tron were main characters that I actually liked playing.

Could never find a main team for myself after that in Ultimate.

I just want MvC3 system in a Capcom All Stars game with good netcode and at least acceptable balance. Is that so hard?

 

[JeTmAn81]

I remember Phoenix going through kind of a weird arc after Ultimate dropped. From FChamp still feeling she was very good "Oh they nerfed her, huh guys, they nerfed her" to a million different techniques for killing Phoenix coming out (various command throw setups, Chris G's Soul Drain combo) and Phoenix looking over-nerfed, to various players including FChamp continuing to play her and strengthen their game to the point where she actually seems fair.

 

[Clawww]

I preferred Vanilla over Ultimate because She-Hulk and Tron were main characters that I actually liked playing.

Could never find a main team for myself after that in Ultimate.

I just want MvC3 system in a Capcom All Stars game with good netcode and at least acceptable balance. Is that so hard?

you forgot to add that you also want your characters to be viable

it's not like they removed she hulk or tron in ultimate lol

not that I blame you for dropping tron jesus they wasted her

 

[pixelish]

our boy is going to be fit as hell if he keeps dancing on the select screen like that lol.

he just did it another time LOL http://oddshot.tv/shot/POONGKOTV_178_201507132231410513