Slamtastic
Member
well, uhh, at least down and hard kick is a sweep for everyone
(guile's does two, i remember that)
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Fighting Games Weekly | June 8-14 | We played a lot of SG and VF for some reason
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
well, uhh, at least down and hard kick is a sweep for everyone
(guile's does two, i remember that)
Not Makoto =P
What fighting game actually has this? I mean there's games where normals function the same way between many if not every character (tekken, NRS games). Every fighting game character has their own execution quirks. Removing Stuff like Charge motion times x 2 for super or the guile/vega input would be much better for the game. Changing giefs 360 to a different motion only had dire consequences in HDR simply because of the damage you get from it. In SFIV it wouldn't change anything.
ShinMaruku
Member
A balance is always required. Some shit is archaeic and could do with excisision but this genre will never do that. No outside influences.
Not Dudley, either. Or Hugo, I think.
Smash
Technically not any of the characters with slides like Guy or Bison either
In what way?
Do you believe every character should have an uppercut or every character should have an anti-air?
Even better? No f'n FADCs.
Slamtastic
Member
What a bad mechanic that was for a game that advertised itself on being newcomer friendly.
Why was all the holding and dashing crap needed when it could have just been a Roman Cancel type of press buttons, cancel to neutral with a pose and screen freeze, continue on type of deal?
Uppercut v-cancel, way more resources put into cancelling.
Maybe you seen it but here's a shitload of kazumi matches from t7
https://youtu.be/FrgfT3FHql0
She's got some mishima stuff
https://youtu.be/FrgfT3FHql0
She's got some mishima stuff
So we agree that FGs have problems converting casuals into competent, dedicated players due to perceptions of complexity - but the idea of having to learn 100+ matchups being overwhelming is "total nonsense"? Or even having a potential character crisis that could water-log your progress?
Okay.
Okay.
I like this idea except for the pose and screen freeze
I would slap somebody if they touched my console lol
I'll give you KOF, but SNK better bring back Last Blade with CD untechable throws.
Nah, but I think execution is the first barrier. Getting road blocked on trial 2 in a fighting game is like "man I spent 5 mintues with this game and they expect this from me? Fuck this game"
that reminds me, down back to up forward, what an intuitive command lol
Coffeeling
Member
You can have a big roster if the characters/matchups are simple like KOF ones. If your matchups are as heavy as SF4's or GG's, then NoGodNo.gif is the only proper response. Keep it under 30, chrissakes.
I concur. It is nice to be able to press buttons.
I'm really glad our weekly has a bunch of people playing different games. 2k2um, 13, UNIEL, Xrd all saw play just from the anime/KOF heads today. Melty too. Lost in a GG tournament, messed around with 2k2um, had Gordeau win me some games in UNIEL and got wrecked in 13. <3
"13 is not KOF" is a meme I've heard enough to want to punch anyone uttering the words.
No.
Yup, just make teching require a 6 or 4 input and don't make the window two years long and you suddenly have a low/throw game.
I enjoy playing SF a lot. It just isn't 4. I've had a bunch of fun playing 3S and messing around in ST.
ShinMaruku
Member
All I will say is less characters can help more people get in by removing pointless options to some people. I'm sure somebody in here saying reducing complexity is not nessisarily removing depth.
It's mostly people getting stuck in ideology about how the games should be than what could help things get better.
I could be completely wrong too but that's my sense.
Learning matchups isn't the problem- many can be approached in broadly similar fashion.
ShinMaruku
Member
That's why I was saying it's perhaps ideology on how games should be blocking that.
Gundam EXVS. But inputs *do* very different things with very different consequences.
You can approach depth through execution or through strategy. Gundam EXVS and VO:OT compare nicely in this regard. As a friend of mine who is one of the better US VO:OT players says, EXVS has none of the execution depth but more strategic depth.
They're both great games btw, and I wouldn't change VO:OT for the world. (RIP VO:OT
).GG/Anime games generally aren't going to be concerned about the barrier to entry problem w/ physical mechanics. They know their audience. (GG's issue was more trying to make sure it was relevant after such a long hiatus.)
Karsticles
Member
Fair enough, though I don't know how you can't believe in execution barriers. Players like Viscant have shown that they are a very real thing. Personally, I can't play a fast-paced character in Smash. My hands get too tired too fast. However, I can play a high-execution character like Morrigan on a stick and do fireballs for days. Something about wrist vs. thumb motion makes it easier to maintain.
I want certain things to be easier. I want the barrier to entry to be lower. I want basics and fundamentals to carry over between characters. I think that is good game design. I don't think we gain anything from something like unique chain systems for every character. More than anything, though, I want double tap to dash to die. Horrible input that impedes gameplay speed.
That isn't cool. Your setup, your rules.
ShinMaruku
Member
Viscant and ultradavid are the poster boys for the execution barrier. I'm sure there are others too.
Shouta
Member
In a lot of ways. For example, everyone having the same basic tools means that once you learn how to play the game, you can get started on any char by properly applying that knowledge. It gives characters the generic options to handle standard situations so you don't end up with a match-up where one char can do nothing against a certain char. Having something you can generally rely on means that you can then spend time learning the situational things that make your character unique, etc.
Granted it's tough for a game like SF because their system is built differently than say VF but they do something similar already. Most have some form or anti-air, most of a way of dealing with fireballs as well.
Think about the weak chars in most fighting games, what problem do they have usually? Too many bad match-ups? Why are they bad match-ups? because they don't have the tools to deal with it.
Gundam EXVS. But inputs *do* very different things with very different consequences.
You can approach depth through execution or through strategy. Gundam EXVS and VO:OT compare nicely in this regard. As a friend of mine who is one of the better US VO:OT players says, EXVS has none of the execution depth but more strategic depth.
They're both great games btw, and I wouldn't change VO:OT for the world. (RIP VO:OT
Yeah, EXVS and VOOT are pretty good examples of different types of depth despite being a similar game at its core.
But of course they should be - and mostly are. They just approach the problem in a different way.
That extends to "non-anime" games (aka Street Fighter) as well, it's just not as pronounced because the neutral game isn't as varied.
Karsticles
Member
I still c.HP with Blanka to anti-air sometimes. Free to jump-ins if the ball isn't charged.
Free to jump-ins if the ball isn't charged.One can only imagine how ESPN will apply their "math is for nerds" approach to a game like LoL.
I think that can be broken at a local level if people can get on the same page with regards to what to play instead. I know locally that after the initial surge of interest in Xrd died down, most of the remaining players went back to +R because they like it better. A similar thing happened with UNIEL, with most of the core players going back and playing MBCC instead. The issue that can really come up here is if people travel to events. However, nobody here really travels, as everyone here is either a broke college student or too busy working a 9 to 5.
Honestly, if it came down to having to play SF4 or Xrd as my two games, I would just quit fighting games completely and go play something like LoL instead. Life is too short to play bad games. (Maybe I should take my own advice...)
I actually find this to be a big deal.
That's a damn good article too.
No lies detected.
FTFY
Karsticles
Member
The only thing people around here don't play at locals anymore is Street Fighter and Marvel. More likely to see KoF and Skullgirls.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1060048
Could Karst or Juice or both hop into this thread and read OP's question?
I feel like either of you two could provide some good insight. Karsticles since you are a Smash player as well, and Juice because you generally have insightful knowledge/tips in a variety of things fighting game related.
Could Karst or Juice or both hop into this thread and read OP's question?
I feel like either of you two could provide some good insight. Karsticles since you are a Smash player as well, and Juice because you generally have insightful knowledge/tips in a variety of things fighting game related.
Juicebox_FGC
Member
...I'm not looking forward to this, at the moment. I need to see evidence that players can't just suck then use V-Skills to suddenly be way better. It's still better than Ultras because you can probably bait/punish V-Skills but it's still a meter that fills when you suck, and since FAs are gone there won't be a way to manage it, really.
Please don't let there be invincible backdashes or DP shortcuts any more...
The first post immediately after the OP was 100% correct.
To put it another way, the only way to get over stage fright is to get on stage over and over. Perhaps I have a small advantage here because I was actually seriously considering going to drama school after enjoying it so much in high school.
Please don't let there be invincible backdashes or DP shortcuts any more...
The first post immediately after the OP was 100% correct.
To put it another way, the only way to get over stage fright is to get on stage over and over. Perhaps I have a small advantage here because I was actually seriously considering going to drama school after enjoying it so much in high school.
KidA Seven
Member
Vesper has been posting some comments in the srk thread
That's actually a good point you bring up that even I didn't think about with myself---I participated in a lot of choir, plays, and was going towards a Communication Major.
Hell my job is showing up in front of strangers on a daily basis to sell them on myself, my design, my company, and more.
People who are fine with putting themselves out there in other ways probably are less likely to have these nerves may be a takeaway.