Fighting Games Weekly | March 11-17 | $1100 per room? I could build a house for $500

LOL at this pic from the chat

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@ Solar Powered: Top 10 in Marvel is the following

Zero, Viper, Vergil, Magneto, Doom, Dante, Strider, Dormammu, Wolverine, Morrigan, Spencer, Nova

First 5 is pretty much set in stone at this point (not the order but the fact that these 5 are within top 5). I know I cheated by putting in 12 but these characters are the meta game right now.

Below them are Hawkeye, Taskmaster, Ammy, Wesker, Felicia, Phoenix, Frank, Akuma, MODOK, Strange, Deadpool, Joe, Storm, Haggar, Hulk, Thor, Sentinel (mostly viable due to Harddrive and Drones), RR, Spider Man, Firebrand, X23. These characters range from High tier to Upper Mid/Mid and are still legitimate threats.

Anything below these characters are too hurt by the meta to be winning consistently (She Hulk, IF etc get owned by zoning) or are better replaced by other characters filling similar roles (Iron Man). I legitimately think that Ghost Rider, IF, Hsien Ko and PW are bottom 4 with the last 2 being universally agreed as being 2 worst in the game.

Meta game revolves too much around missiles play shutting down most types of game plans AND TAC infinites while the rest of the characters kill you using unblockables or unreactable mix ups in order to 3 for 1 you. The anchors are essentially boiled down to 3 characters Vergil, Strider and Phoenix... any other anchor gets zoned out too well by the current meta. Skrull is exception, he can still make yolo comebacks but he is not a stable character. Vergil is the best of the 3 anchors because he kills you super fast and has a LVL1 hyper that allows him to get in with ease plus he can support the team with Spiral Swords and a solid Rapid Slash assist. Phoenix is a big liability but at 5 bars she is superior to Vergil because she can survive the incoming mix up and combo (which is a huge deal when your team is up against something like a Viper unblockable team or a Frank team because Vergil can't do shit against that on incoming). Strider also fills his niche among the anchors because he has a top tier assists while also being a strong anchor.

Basically the "go to" character shell in the game have become Doom for his Missiles, Beam, TAC infinites, safe DHC and the ability to stall games into frustrating opponent to mess up into easy mode TODs and Vergil for derp anchor play plus Spiral Swords DHC to guarantee TODs. What really changes is the point character and that is usually Magneto, Morrigan, Zero (soon to be). Viper is technically a top tier point character but she doesn't gel well with missiles, she instead uses Jam Session and Strider which is super potent. And she takes work to play with so people are just defaulting to X/Doom/Vergil. Dante/Strider is a similar shell to that where you have a top support character in Dante and an anchor but this set up takes a lot of skill to play and doesn't give you a ton of damage like those other 2 do.
 
vocab said:
mvc3 is a sloppy ass game. When I saw that I just shook my head. Why the fuck is that stuff even possible. Who play tested this game? Clearly no one.
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don't think you can ever get enough time to playtest a game like marvel and still release on time and be profitable.

Literally they could have the 10-15 pros play nonstop for like 4 months and still wouldn't figure out majority of the shit.
 
Ragingnight said:
don't think you can ever get enough time to playtest a game like marvel and still release on time and be profitable.

Literally they could have the 10-15 pros play nonstop for like 4 months and still wouldn't figure out majority of the shit.
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More than those players played the game non stop for a year and we still didn't find out TAC infinites until well over a year into the game's release.

I mean yea obvious stuff like Doom OTG should be picked up early but it's very hard to pick up stuff like TAC infinites or weird glitches.

If you had asked the top players to balance the game after 4 months of playing Marvel, we would've had a worse game than we do now.
 
These matches are so damn good right now. These guys are on their S game. Love when Schmidt combos off of Zero DP assist, done it twice with happy birthdays now too.
 
Ragingnight said:
don't think you can ever get enough time to playtest a game like marvel and still release on time and be profitable.

Literally they could have the 10-15 pros play nonstop for like 4 months and still wouldn't figure out majority of the shit.
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This is true, I mean after TAC infinites were found in Ultimate, someone tested if they existed in Vanilla and sure enough they did.
 
Ragingnight said:
don't think you can ever get enough time to playtest a game like marvel and still release on time and be profitable.

Literally they could have the 10-15 pros play nonstop for like 4 months and still wouldn't figure out majority of the shit.
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Yeah, I scoff at anyone thinking balancing Marvel is a walk in the park, let alone as easy as balancing other fighting games, which is not easy at all and most of the time not done perfectly.

UMvC3 is incredibly well balanced for what it is.
 
Marvel is fine, the problem is a lot of the really strong stuff, is OBVIOUSLY strong stuff.

*stupid otg times, hidden missles, huge air throw ranges*
 
Completely irrelevant to any constructive discussion going on, but vxg_gullah_gulllah_island might just be the most hilarious stream monster name ever.

Ragingnight said:
don't think you can ever get enough time to playtest a game like marvel and still release on time and be profitable.

Literally they could have the 10-15 pros play nonstop for like 4 months and still wouldn't figure out majority of the shit.
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Yeah, pretty much. Even taking into account some of the nonsense present in the game, I'm surprised it's as balanced as it is.
 
enzo_gt said:
Yeah, I scoff at anyone thinking balancing Marvel is a walk in the park, let alone as easy as balancing other fighting games, which is not easy at all and most of the time not done perfectly.

UMvC3 is incredibly well balanced for what it is.
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But like did anyone play test it???
 
Only way to balance a game like Marvel is to do it like they balance Dota 2. Come up with regular patches (but not that drastic) every 4 or so months. Too many variables that are upsetted by changing even one element of the game so this has to be a constant balancing process.

Dota has been out for essentially a decade and it's still not that balanced. The current meta is basically like Marvel only because that game has Banning Picks it allows for a more variety of play... you can't just pick Eza plus PL every game you need to be diverse. It still boils down to less than 20 regular competitive picks and yes I have the stats to back that up. The rest of the heroes are still strong and serve their niches well but they are more for surprise/counter picks.
 
Azure J said:
This is true, I mean after TAC infinites were found in Ultimate, someone tested if they existed in Vanilla and sure enough they did.
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That doesn't really say anything. The reason why they added no hit stun deteriorating after a TAC was so that TAC would be useful. If they still deteriorate then there would be very little reason to TAC.

The "glitch" is the hitstop while touching the ground. I don't think anybody would think "maybe it would stay in if they hit them as they touch the ground and jump and hit them again".

In some ways it reminds me of vergil's roundtrip glitch.

QisTopTier said:
Seeing how arthur is the only character in the game who gets punished with death for using a meter. I'll say no.
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deadpool (wow i almost typed deadpoop) gets punished for teleporting 3 times lol
 
DP's teleport explosion just shouldn't cause a hard knockdown, same for Arthur. Hell I would say even soft knockdown is pushing it.

An assisted Deadpool single handedly owns FChamp's EVO winning team and numerous Zero teams as well. No one really puts in the work in with the character, DP with Plasma Beam is sick.
 
smurfx said:
yeah i really hope he gets the she hulk treatment. although i do want TAC's to become useless as well. lets not get into theory marvel patch mode.
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You want to take a reasonably strong point character and make them bottom tier? People get (justifiably) salty about missiles and TACs and just start complaining about random stuff.

Ragingnight said:
That doesn't really say anything. The reason why they added no hit stun deteriorating after a TAC was so that TAC would be useful. If they still deteriorate then there would be very little reason to TAC.

The "glitch" is the hitstop while touching the ground. I don't think anybody would think "maybe it would stay in if they hit them as they touch the ground and jump and hit them again".

In some ways it reminds me of vergil's roundtrip glitch.



deadpool (wow i almost typed deadpoop) gets punished for teleporting 3 times lol
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TACs would still be useful for meter-related purposes and for swapping characters meterlessly without the risk associated with raw tags.

Dahbomb said:
DP's teleport explosion just shouldn't cause a hard knockdown, same for Arthur. Hell I would say even soft knockdown is pushing it.

An assisted Deadpool single handedly owns FChamp's EVO winning team and numerous Zero teams as well. No one really puts in the work in with the character, DP with Plasma Beam is sick.
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I don't see how Deadpool fights Zero. Can you elaborate?
 
Ragingnight said:
That doesn't really say anything. The reason why they added no hit stun deteriorating after a TAC was so that TAC would be useful. If they still deteriorate then there would be very little reason to TAC.

The "glitch" is the hitstop while touching the ground. I don't think anybody would think "maybe it would stay in if they hit them as they touch the ground and jump and hit them again".

In some ways it reminds me of vergil's roundtrip glitch.
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This is kind of wrong. TACs add move proration / hit stun deterioration but it does not occur until the opponent is forced into another state, I say another state because some TAC infinites may still occur even after hitting the ground (i.e Jill's / Ironman's).

TACs are useful because they are a safe way of tagging in another character either for more damage from their hyper or simply to save your point character with no repercussions for failing a TAC.

The glitch is also definitely not intended, it just hadn't been discovered while the team was actively working on the game, hence things like being able to tech at anytime getting patched.
 
Pretty sad that a bunch of people think Tight or Fight is a new series when it's been going for a while.


Shows how horribly advertised 90% of fighting game events are.
 
enzo_gt said:
Yeah, I scoff at anyone thinking balancing Marvel is a walk in the park, let alone as easy as balancing other fighting games, which is not easy at all and most of the time not done perfectly.

UMvC3 is incredibly well balanced for what it is.
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Dahbomb said:
Only way to balance a game like Marvel is to do it like they balance Dota 2. Come up with regular patches (but not that drastic) every 4 or so months. Too many variables that are upsetted by changing even one element of the game so this has to be a constant balancing process.
Click to expand...

The only way to balance any fighting game is through constant patches or updates, persistent tweaks to the game. There's no way the team working on the game are going to be able to think of all the ways the thousands of players are going to actually play it. But I think that's actually a good thing, because it speaks to the level of complexity of fighters. As an aside, I also don't think balancing Marvel would be that different than balancing any other fighting game.

I think we should also make a distinction between being balanced and being broken. Basically, the difference between how good the characters are and how good the mechanics are. I'd say Marvel is as balanced as it was supposed to be, but it's more broken than intended. Things like the original rate of meter gain and the current TAC infinites aren't how the game should play. Whereas Hsien-Ko is ass, and she was designed to be ass.

Marvel's brokenness isn't game breaking, so it doesn't really matter. It'd be nice if it could be fixed, but only because the meta is limited when some choices are so obviously better than others. If everyone could TAC infinite with the same level of ease, would it matter at all? I think Marvel's only real problem was the way balance was approached, making some characters intentionally better than others.
 
Keep the Arthur hard knockdown for a meter.

That shit won me a tournament match once.

Just kidding, that's really stupid to have that be a thing.
 
I don't see how Deadpool fights Zero. Can you elaborate?
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Deadpool's gun shots are fast and cover various angles while going full screen instantly that cut down Zero's approaches. Buster beats the guns BUT he doesn't have Buster available all the time and he can't Buster a Deadpool who is at equal height with him in the air and shooting guns straight forward. Zero also can't just super jump and stay in the air shooting stuff DP can snipe him from there. Whenever Zero tries to get in on DP, he just teleports to the other side or Quick Slices across. He has faster ground movement than Zero. Deadpool also has more health and a very small hit box when dashing across which means that Zero can't exactly get into a war of attrition with DP... he has to get in and try to TOD him.

Deadpool overall is just super underrated and under played... there are very few character he actually loses match ups to.
 
Dahbomb said:
Only way to balance a game like Marvel is to do it like they balance Dota 2. Come up with regular patches (but not that drastic) every 4 or so months. Too many variables that are upsetted by changing even one element of the game so this has to be a constant balancing process.

Dota has been out for essentially a decade and it's still not that balanced. The current meta is basically like Marvel only because that game has Banning Picks it allows for a more variety of play... you can't just pick Eza plus PL every game you need to be diverse. It still boils down to less than 20 regular competitive picks and yes I have the stats to back that up. The rest of the heroes are still strong and serve their niches well but they are more for surprise/counter picks.
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If Marvel came out on PC exclusively, then this would be possible. The cost to put out a patch on consoles wouldn't be worth it.

I'm actually opposed to this idea. I kinda like letting whatever is in the game rock.
 
1100 for sharing rent with 4 people in Union City?! The only thing I know Union City has is a Papa Johns. No good food around there.

Also, Apologyman is seriously one of the more exciting players to watch on stream.
 
I'm actually opposed to this idea. I kinda like letting whatever is in the game rock.
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I didn't say this was how I want Marvel to be patched/balanced, I said this was really the only way to get the most ideal balance for Marvel. I think one major patch rectifying numerous issues with the current game would be enough for the game to last 2 more years before getting stale and in need of a patch. Even if it wasn't going to be super well balanced, player skill would still triumph for a good portion of the game and players would be more free to pick characters outside of Hidden Missiles and Dark Vergil.
 
Master Milk said:
The only way to balance any fighting game is through constant patches or updates, persistent tweaks to the game. There's no way the team working on the game are going to be able to think of all the ways the thousands of players are going to actually play it. But I think that's actually a good thing, because it speaks to the level of complexity of fighters. As an aside, I also don't think balancing Marvel would be that different than balancing any other fighting game.
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Honestly though I feel that a more fluid Marvel (with more patching) would be a wonderful thing, personally I feel that it would benefit more than other types of fighters due to the interesting theory fighter meta-game that all the assist types and teams provide. Marvel is at it's best when people are still figuring the game out, where crazy teams can still surprise you and where it's more a game of mid-match / mid-tournament adaption. Wouldn't want it to be too often though, personally I'd have a once a year patch that performed various balance changes and added one new character to the roster. Patching seems less capricious when you perform it at regularly scheduled intervals (so you don't get the NERF SENTINEL NOW reaction patches). And at one year it give each specific meta game some time to evolve and percolate before you upset the balance and start to shake up the tiers again.

I honestly think this would be a great thing. Don't tell me that you wouldn't be really interested in the first big major each year after the patches hit.
 
Once a year patch would be fine, right after EVO to essentially reset the meta game. Once it gets to the point where just adding/subtracting a few frames makes a big difference in a character... that's when it's time to either stop patching or do it after every 2 years.

FChamp won yesterday. He worked his way back to the top after being sent to losers in Round 1.
 
Dante is mid tier in UMVC3. He is nowhere near top 10. Niether is Nova or Strider. Please use your brain before posting.
 
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