Professor Beef
Banned
I always subscribe to any thread that I see myself posting in more than once. I never look at OT/Gaming unless there's no new posts in any of my subs. And even then, I have to be bored.
What salt?
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Fighting Games Weekly | May 11-17 | Sticks and Stones Break Zangief's Bones
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
What salt?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I believe so, yes.
The top players who used to play the game and had any chance of winning still play and play well. The people who were never really good or never had a chance have been weeded out.
The pool of players is extremely concentrated. We are at a point where even Justin Wong struggles in pools now (at Texas he barely won in a 3-2 set in pools against Gdlk Abe who played Team Nemo and in Final Round he lost to Incognito in pools).
The EVO that FChamp won, he talked about how it was basically auto pilot for most players to get out of pools. This won't be the case this year for the game even though the top players are still expected to make it out of pools (they just have to work harder per match).
What really matters is how fierce the competition is to get to the top and the competition in Marvel is still fierce and it will be very fierce at EVO. So even though it will have way less competitors this year, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because the people who aren't playing this year are those who never really stood a chance to begin with.
MiniBossBattle
Member
can't highlight how true this is. which is often mistaken for the game "dying".
irfaanator
Banned
i was thinking about it and wondering who would be the top three at evo this year outta chris g, flocker, fchamp, and jwong
And all the number comparing of Marvel to MKX, Smash and GGXrd is a bit silly especially MKX which just came out and has the new game hype bandwagon. Of course it's going to have higher numbers... if it didn't I would be scared for the game's future.
Now how would the numbers be for the games 4-5 years down the line? Would the games still be played at EVO? MKX and GGXrd have been updated more times in a few months than Marvel 3 has in 3 and a half years...
Top 3 is set in stone at this point... Justin Wong, FChamp and ChrisG are the best 3 hands down no questions asked.
After that it's a whole range of top players who are on the cusp and are capable of beating these 3.
Cloud805 - Multiple top 8 finishes, many times has gotten 2nd place (only to lose to a god but he has slain gods in his path)
Clockwork - Another god killer, just finished 3rd in his most recent tournament only losing to Justin and Clockwork but won against FChamp.
RayRay - Just got 2nd at Texas, winning over Justin but losing against ChrisG in a close 2 set game.
Apologyman - Many top 8 finishes including a major win, can slay gods as well.
KBR - He just keeps getting better and better against all odds.
Paradigm - Multiple top 8 finishes
Marvelo, Full Schedule - Florida boys put in a lot of work with the game and have been performing really well lately.
Flocker - Hasn't performed well lately but he is still top 8 caliber player
Cosmos, Terry Bogard - The new emergent players of this year with their Morrigans. They have definitely done well recently and are major threats.
RF, Nemo and the Japanese Marvel players - Hopefully the Japanese Marvel players show up at EVO in full force because they can do some work. KVO had 200 players for Marvel and the games were good. And they have some quality group of players now.
This list is basically the same as last year's only with a few additions and these players have closed the gap more so. It's not as apparent in the results but when you see the matches you see the players struggling for ever win.. it's not as free as it was a couple of years ago.
Now how would the numbers be for the games 4-5 years down the line? Would the games still be played at EVO? MKX and GGXrd have been updated more times in a few months than Marvel 3 has in 3 and a half years...
You mean top 8?
Top 3 is set in stone at this point... Justin Wong, FChamp and ChrisG are the best 3 hands down no questions asked.
After that it's a whole range of top players who are on the cusp and are capable of beating these 3.
Cloud805 - Multiple top 8 finishes, many times has gotten 2nd place (only to lose to a god but he has slain gods in his path)
Clockwork - Another god killer, just finished 3rd in his most recent tournament only losing to Justin and Clockwork but won against FChamp.
RayRay - Just got 2nd at Texas, winning over Justin but losing against ChrisG in a close 2 set game.
Apologyman - Many top 8 finishes including a major win, can slay gods as well.
KBR - He just keeps getting better and better against all odds.
Paradigm - Multiple top 8 finishes
Marvelo, Full Schedule - Florida boys put in a lot of work with the game and have been performing really well lately.
Flocker - Hasn't performed well lately but he is still top 8 caliber player
Cosmos, Terry Bogard - The new emergent players of this year with their Morrigans. They have definitely done well recently and are major threats.
RF, Nemo and the Japanese Marvel players - Hopefully the Japanese Marvel players show up at EVO in full force because they can do some work. KVO had 200 players for Marvel and the games were good. And they have some quality group of players now.
This list is basically the same as last year's only with a few additions and these players have closed the gap more so. It's not as apparent in the results but when you see the matches you see the players struggling for ever win.. it's not as free as it was a couple of years ago.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I've heard Flocker doesn't play much these days since he got into LoL. Chris, Champ, and Justin are the most likely players to win or place top 3.
you lost me here, are you saying the updates are why the games have good attendance and 4-5 years later they won't be as popular because they won't be getting updates?
theprodigy
Member
well yes, but it's also the only big Marvel tournament this year so far in terms of entrants really (as in 150+, someone correct me if I'm wrong)
edit: actually I guess with KVO there's two...lol
Those games will be getting updates and have gotten updates which is in part going to extend the competitive life of those games. Which is why it was a poor comparison to make against a game which hasn't received an update in years.
Unless there's a big expansion like a USF4 type thing or they are Smash Melee... most games dwindle in numbers over the years. It's the natural course of most games.
This is of course applied to fighting games... for MOBAs which are updated almost weekly and get more and more players it's a completely different thing.
DryEyeRelief
Member
You're talking about shallow bandwagons when Marvel's been forcefed down viewers throats at stream primetime despite having lower entrants than freaking uniel.
Entrant numbers don't dictate which games get on stream or which game's top 8 is on what time of the day.
Certainly didn't matter for KVO.
As far as I can tell, the biggest factor for games getting on stream is based on how much view count they can potentially generate. Unless I am mistaken here, Marvel gets more views than Uniel hence why it will get more stream time than Uniel.
DisplayLag rates it at 10ms. To be fair, that's 1ms slower than the fastest monitors on their site, and identical to the Asus VH236Hs, which is what Evo was using previously. My roommate has one of these BenQ displays and I've compared it to my VH236H and I (or anyone else) can't notice any differences in input lag whatsoever.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Oh please.
That's not even my entire point. People don't like change. So the game that came after (MKX) will always have a harder time trying to topple the games that came before (Capcom)
All the BS ultrachen talk about how communites needing a "storyline" and people watch marvel for the "rivalries." If you don't make way for new games, they won't develop their own stories for people to know. Xiaohai reclaiming his KOF title at evo was as big of a deal as Justin winning Marvel again. Both return of the king. But blah, blah, Justin Wong, storm, pringles, chancletas, whatever. That got more attention.
Playing marvel is status quo at this point. That's the reason why it's still afloat. That's why people shit on smash for being a party game with childish characters and go around and play a game with superheroes and felicia in it.
I am reading this whole post and all I can think of is:
I do agree with the first point about keeping the status quo and it being harder for things to change. Games have to kind of prove themselves that they have the competitive legs for them to be promoted properly at EVO (especially for non Capcom games). Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is debatable.... you don't want to push away the new games but at the same time you don't want to put on a pedestal a brand new game just because of the hype bandwagon. Otherwise you have a Smash Brawl or SFxT situation.
irfaanator
Banned
nah I was talking about top 3, but if flocker doesnt play that much anymore then I guess he wouldnt be as much of a factor as I thought
KidA Seven
Member
That's because Justin doesn't play anymore. After the last evo Justin was focusing on SF4, and now that mkx is out is playing nothing but mkx. Justin doesn't even need to practice to do well in that game.
No one plays Marvel anymore.... so it's fair for everyone then!
In any case, I don't envy the tournament organizers for making these decisions. I am sure MrWizard has too look at many factors. The competitive field of each game (as in the top players, not the average joe), performance of games at this year's majors, performance of games at last EVO, stream numbers vs entrants, "hype" factor, money hats etc. in order to decide the order of games and stream time.
Lostconfused
Member
DryEyeRelief
Member
For you obviously it's only a bad thing when SF4 is keeping marvel down.
I'm going to be real for a second. The only reason Marvel will maintain its top 8 final spot at evo is because Mr Wizard has a hard on for the game. That's why he was willing to bend over backwards to get 360 version at Evo after people starting bandwagoning ChrisG's whining. Any other game, he would have not done that.
I make the brackets for CEO too. The story is the same.
theprodigy
Member
I know, that's why I mentioned it!
how many times will this retarded excuse be acceptable
it's basically close to "daigo's friend" in terms of meaning jack shit because most of the field of competition plays the game less than any pro player regardless of what they say about 'not playing the game'
the last time godlike abe played the game was in november, what's your excuse for him almost losing now?
also just placing stuff timingwise by sheer entrant numbers is the best idea imo, it's the simplest way to apply tournament convenience for the actual tournament goers + puts on games the stream guys probably care about in their proper spots
like marvel on friday sucked nuts but it makes sense given the numbers + logistics of juggling consoles/space availability across 2 days for pools so it's hard to complain
guilty gear being on saturday vs other anime games being on friday, smash being on saturday etc. etc.
the organization of this stuff is highly variable and should be first and foremost be done to make sure the tournament runs smoothly for the players- if [x] games guys want to play grand finals on saturday and it works out to free up time/space for the tournament to use later that day/on sunday then let them!
KidA Seven
Member
What are you flipping out over man? I wasn't praising Justin. I was saying that ppl don't give a fuck anymore. I mean you just have to watch Justin's stream. He doesn't give a fuck about Marvel.
3rd Strike, Melty Blood, The King of Fighters, Vampire Savior are truly at their prime.
'cuz it's a time honored excuse for any top player since it's inception
"oh that loss is whatever, they just don't play anymore"
"hey he's still winning even though he never plays the game"
it's a wildly non-competitive statement that has contributed to the fugue state that a lot of otherwise passionate players find themselves in, regardless of game
i will kill you
DryEyeRelief
Member
If it's about that then Melee would be the main event, and MKX would be after both capcom games and Marvel would be before noon.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
There's no upgrade path for any of the BB Steam releases, right? They're all standalone titles?
Can't wait for the Justin Option selects at EVO.
*Justin doesn't win in MKX. "Oh that's because he's not really a MK player anyway"
*Justin doesn't win in UMVC3. "Oh that's because he doesn't give a fuck about Marvel anymore and just plays MKX all day"
*Justin doesn't win in KI. "Isn't a KI player and just streams MKX"
I know because I already have all these option selects on lock for EVO!
*Justin doesn't win in MKX. "Oh that's because he's not really a MK player anyway"
*Justin doesn't win in UMVC3. "Oh that's because he doesn't give a fuck about Marvel anymore and just plays MKX all day"
*Justin doesn't win in KI. "Isn't a KI player and just streams MKX"
I know because I already have all these option selects on lock for EVO!
You really think MKX is going to out draw USF4 at EVO? As far as I know MKX isn't at a thousand yet but USF4 is.
Melee has the most entrants at EVO?
if that's how the entry numbers turn out and it works to be efficient with the tournament scheduling, then i don't see a single problem with that
DryEyeRelief
Member
Misread, I thought he was giving priority to stream numbers.
...why is marvel usually second?
The only time you could upgrade in the history of ArcSys was Continuum Shift to II.
Every other time was a separate expansion/sequel.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I haven't gotten that impression. He has a new fanbase of Mortal Kombat fans and he wants to entertain them, so that's mainly what he plays on stream.
I doubt Justin has much of a chance of winning MKX anyway unless he starts going to sessions (or hosting them) and really grinding it out offline.
What at EVO? It used to have the 2nd highest entrants and at least the 2nd highest viewers on stream (last two EVOs it had the highest viewers).
2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 EVO for UMVC3 had the 2nd most entrants. The 2nd spot finals was obvious.
Immortal Technique
Member
Looks good. In recent years, Saturday has been kind of a letdown, compared to Friday which has the SF4 semis. This would take care of that.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I'm not surprised but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed
Speaking of Steam, apparently Yomi is on Steam now, with an early bird discount and hidden DLC
http://store.steampowered.com/app/287960/
I don't know, I mean I still see Kane Blue River in tournament from time to time.
Justin truly will go down in history as one of E-sports greatest athletes.
dont know what you are trying to prove, so i'm just gonna lol
Tony commented on Smash numbers (Wii U is really close to Melee).
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I don't know, I mean I still see Kane Blue River in tournament from time to time.
He just 3-0'd ChrisG a couple weeks ago.
KidA Seven
Member
That's the EG way
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