No one in their right mind wants their hobby to have as least amount of people as possible.
But I guess people enjoy watching tournaments on 4G connections for reasons
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fighting Games Weekly | Oct 20-26 | RIP PushaTee88
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
No one in their right mind wants their hobby to have as least amount of people as possible.
But I guess people enjoy watching tournaments on 4G connections for reasons
I wouldn't mind it getting bigger either, I just see some people who say the opposite. Maybe I need to spend less time on r/Kappa.
Edit: would anyone want to play in smash btw, i'm getting bored of playing randoms with horrible connections, even if i suck.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I'd like tournaments to remain open entry for the most part, which isn't the case for Esports events.
Esports model only really benefits the people at the top. It shuts out everyone else completely.
I think Fighting games have a lot more to learn from CCG events than they do Esports. We currently have nothing incommon with those events besides hungry top players who want to make a lot of money playing video games full time.
Karsticles
Member
PM me your FC and we will play sometime.
irfaanator
Banned
bigger tournies sort of have that fake feel to them imo. You just don't get the same feel as smaller tournaments. Especially in fgc where you can play whenever and talk to whoever.
this mindset isn't exclusive to fighters. Why are people always looking for scapegoats for holding the community back?
Not learning to basics of a character
or multiple characters if you don't want to main someone
Whether it's video games, sports or your job I don't see why you wouldn't take full advantage to grow and expand your knowledge.
That's just how I look at things
Karsticles
Member
Someone should go around and ask LoL players why they don't play fighting games instead.
That's why I quit league. I figured that if I lost, I wanted the blame to rest solely on me for not getting gud. It's not really a popular mindset, but it works out okay
A big issue with this is that the hardcore community attacks any instance of this. Not only that, but they attack things that aren't even relatively competitive as their favourite game. It's systemic in the community, and gaming community at large really.
I don't think people playing LoL because it's fun is any different from most of us in this thread or the 99% of us that aren't getting Top 8s ever, or hell even going out to tournaments. Just in the context of growth, people are more likely to approach a MOBA with a fresh perspective than they are a fighting game. Yes, part of that is because everyone and their mother is playing a MOBA and it's a sort of momentum effect from growth, but in my experiences people often have rigid perceptions of fighting games and the FGC. Be it Joe Blow picking up a fighting game and trying to do the longest combo or some forumite saying the FGC is just a bunch of sexist pigs. Perhaps it's the skill ceiling that feels that much realer in a 1v1 scenario.
I think NRS is trying their hardest to change that, and Capcom isn't doing enough (though they have the most power, and as a result help perpetuate these perspectives). It gets difficult trying to talk to two audiences that don't want to talk to each other. Look at the vehement hate for comeback mechanics in this community, which probably doesn't exist for the other 90% of people who play the games, make sure that the IP doesn't die from poor sales, and don't really care for implications of those mechanics at any level.
What is full advantage necessarily? If I have 30 mins to game every other night, do I spend it grinding trials so that maybe next month I can start having fun? Or do I jump into matchmaking and try to snackish this guy?
i wonder if the presentation stuff turns off some people to the fgc streams. i mean i love the fgc's attitude and the fact that it is quite a bit more casual and funny than the super false esports presentation but maybe people dig the fact that LoL streams etc. looks so official and have white dudes in suits telling you things.
You don't need to fully copy the esports formula, but both have their positives and negatives
Open comp = best for players, not as good for viewers. No one wants to see Infiltration body the r/Kappa army, that shit isn't fun or entertaining. It's Infiltration playing the training dummy.
Invitational/closed comp = not as good for players, best for spectators. It's usually why Top 8/16 gets the most viewers. People want to see the best play the best. We want to see the Infiltration vs Louffy's and Snake Eyez vs the Ryan Hart's.
There's no reason a future EVO can't fill up an arena using either formula.
You can sell lots of things to PC players. It's very hard to monetize console players in the same way.
Halo and more recently CoD are good examples. Nothing is on the level of SC/LoL/DotA(/CS?) though. If we're just talking sponsorships, money and exposure.
"God's Beard!"
Member
That's why Virtua Fighter 4 had the best tutorial system. "Quick get up 4 times!" "Tech this throw 5 times!" "Block high/low without getting hit!"
Professor Beef
Banned
something something "fgc is raw keep it dat way" or some other bullshit
FormallyFamicom
Member
Hmm. Maybe it is that simple. FGC too minority driven for the big money.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";135094744]That's why Virtua Fighter 4 had the best tutorial system. "Quick get up 4 times!" "Tech this throw 5 times!" "Block high/low without getting hit!"[/QUOTE]
Then people go back to versus mode and mash on buttons anyways
Then people go back to versus mode and mash on buttons anyways
"God's Beard!"
Member
I got top 16 at a major mashing beat knuckle over and over lol
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";135095098]I got top 16 at a major mashing beat knuckle over and over lol[/QUOTE]
THE SYSTEM WORKS!
THE SYSTEM WORKS!
Video's old but just found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcZK54FHmEk&feature=youtu.be
Someone made a Daft Punk soundboard in Brawl/Project M.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcZK54FHmEk&feature=youtu.be
Someone made a Daft Punk soundboard in Brawl/Project M.
toddhunter
Member
The things making big money, are made and supported by companies that designed them to make big money and actually knew what they are doing.
The current hope is that Capcom figures out what they should be doing. This seems unlikely so the real hope is Valve or Blizzard make a fighting game.
Then all bets are off.
Tizoc, where is your avatar from?
I thought the same thing, Chris is alright but New York swag? Come on man. Also Viscant should just ignore this, guy clearly has some self-esteem/image issues. Its good to care about appearances and critique others but to flatly point out someone on a YouTube vid? What are we, in fifth grade?
Flying High
Member
How to make a stream monster
an invitational, however, is way less exciting than a solid top 8 that's made it out of difficult brackets. you get a build-up and 'backstory' that an exhibition can't provide.
also, despite infiltration bodying unknown players being boring, upsets or amazing matches from new players make up for it, and add hype to the overall event/top 8.
P4U is the most simple out of the big 3 ASW games.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I like the fgc being emotional as it is. Makes for good stream viewing. The twitter/facebook drama not so much.
Not that it makes it any worse, of course.
Smash 4 AT: Dodge Cancelling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmDkNkNPWYY
Didn't know this was an AT, already did this sort of thing with Ness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmDkNkNPWYY
Didn't know this was an AT, already did this sort of thing with Ness.
Something I like about the Capcom Pro Tour is that they really just want to find their own way when it comes to the eSports thing. I think Capcom has been very smart in how they've approached it: open with a bang, progressively create a sustainable model out of it, don't shit on what the community has built, work with the community, avoid working with others who compromise those principles, etc. Really is commendable, and through goodwill they've reached a point where they can now charge for tickets, get bigger sponsors on board, and build from here in a way which isn't dependent on the sheer size of the community necessarily. So when SFV comes around, they can really kick this into high gear, because they're prepared.
Where the Drake and Wayne stuff fits into this though.. I don't know.
Where the Drake and Wayne stuff fits into this though.. I don't know.
I don't believe this is a real thing.
toddhunter
Member
All good points, all that is missing from them is the game. Unfortunately delivering on that may or may not be possible.
Professor Beef
Banned
December is a "blackout" month for my job, which means no requested time off. I may not be able to make the Capcom Cup. 
December is a "blackout" month for my job, which means no requested time off. I may not be able to make the Capcom Cup.
You were so close too. Time to throw away all my celebratory beef.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Nah.
I used to get up in arms about fighting game tutorials being largely useless, but then I feel like I kind of got a better idea of what qualities make a competent player, and that tutorials can't really help with that. It's almost all an attitude/perspective thing. A good player can look back on a match and figure out, strategically and tactically, why something worked or didn't work, and use that to improve as a competitor. I think that the effectiveness of tutorials is largely limited to execution alone, especially in games that have been out for a while and may have been fleshed out in a way that the programmers never envisioned.
I feel like the biggest hurdle for mass appeal is that, for some reason, it isn't obvious to a lot of people that fighting games can be fun at a low level. Watching NBA level athletes at work doesn't deter anyone from shooting hoops with their friends. Watching a combo video or EVO top 8 shouldn't deter anyone from playing Street Fighter, but for some reason, it happens. I feel like solving that discrepancy would be the only step required, but I can't even begin to suggest how to do that.
I really think an online hub built in-game would help a lot in easing new players in.
Not many people are willing to dig through Youtube/SRK/etc. to find good combos or tech. It would also help the problem of in-game tutorials being more irrelevant as the metagame advances, if there could be community submitted videos/tutorials or something.
Basically a FGC Miiverse-like hub with robust video tools or something would be neat.
Not many people are willing to dig through Youtube/SRK/etc. to find good combos or tech. It would also help the problem of in-game tutorials being more irrelevant as the metagame advances, if there could be community submitted videos/tutorials or something.
Basically a FGC Miiverse-like hub with robust video tools or something would be neat.
that hub sounds like a nice idea. would help if there was some kind of community manager searching and posting good videos for people to watch.
"God's Beard!"
Member
One of the things that keeps MTG building as a competitor sport even though it's a lot worse than fighting games from a viewing perspective is that Wizards pumps out new cards every 3 months with shit tons of support content. It's a hype train that just keeps accelerating all year. There's 1-2 tournaments every weekend, and the weekdays are filled with articles. It's just 24/7 content to devour. The FGC never really got there, though it did get close with all the weekly shows like Cross Counter Live for a while.
If Capcom kept pumping out titles like around 2011-2012, of course you'd see the same growth like you did then. Sure for us we can keep playing the same game day in day out, but people in general like the stimulus to stay motivated.
Can you imagine if there was a new capcom fighter every 12-18 months? SFV one year, maybe Darkstalkers the next, then Super SFV, then Rival Schools. It'd be great.
Not Power Stone, though. Fuck Power Stone.
Deciding between getting a PS3 for Persona and Marvel 3 or a PS4 for Guilty Gear and whatever future games is killing me. I'll probably just get a PS4 and forget all about P4A ;_;
I'm definitely considering selling my Wii U to trade up though. There's just no games that I like.
If Capcom kept pumping out titles like around 2011-2012, of course you'd see the same growth like you did then. Sure for us we can keep playing the same game day in day out, but people in general like the stimulus to stay motivated.
Can you imagine if there was a new capcom fighter every 12-18 months? SFV one year, maybe Darkstalkers the next, then Super SFV, then Rival Schools. It'd be great.
Not Power Stone, though. Fuck Power Stone.
Deciding between getting a PS3 for Persona and Marvel 3 or a PS4 for Guilty Gear and whatever future games is killing me. I'll probably just get a PS4 and forget all about P4A ;_;
I'm definitely considering selling my Wii U to trade up though. There's just no games that I like.
There could be a community *video of the day* meant to illustrate certain concepts/combos/ideas. Boot up multiplayer, boom, video with a note like "Most people know X, but Y is also very important. This video Z illustrates Y during these (timestamped) moments."
Then tack on achievements for watching them or something.
Because it doesn't pay enough.
Or they just don't like fighting games and prefer playing MOBAs. Or they have been mostly PC gamers from the start. Or they know fighting games have shitty onlines.
Many of the DOTA/LoL players I know started out on DOTA 1 on their shitty Pentium 3. That's all they had, no consoles or good graphics card. That lasted them for a really long time and that's all they played. People have to realize that the reason why DOTA/LoL are big is because they are low spec, low entry, 0 cost games. That attracts a huge amount of players by itself. Not everyone can afford graphics cards or new consoles to buy $60 games
on.
Plus they know their games will be around competitively for a while so they can invest long term in it. These people aren't going to seriously pick up SF4 because that game is only alive until the next SF.
I still remember how aggressive some older SRK members were towards member that joined in 2009. Now it feels kinda like a wasteland, and a lot of character forums seem dead.
A Disney Catoon called Gravity Falls. It's really good.
this is the biggest thing when it comes to console games imo. The 3 biggest PC games right now are probably Dota/LoL/CS. The first two are free, the latter isn't but you know you don't have to worry about Dota 3, Super League of Legends or Counter Strike 2 for the next 5 years. Hearthstone might be more popular than CS but weekly online tournaments are pulling like 50k viewers easy and it's usually the 2nd or 3rd most watched game during peak hours
It's hard to get invested into a game when you know there's going to be a new one in a year or two. SF is the worst with this, it's the one fighting game with the best chance of making it big, yet it eliminates it's potential userbase by a new version coming out each year, most of them requiring you to purchase a new disc.
I'd love to see them release just a Street Fighter V. No Hyper SFV, Super SFV or SFV: Second Impact. Just do big updates for balance changes when necessary.
I dno man I never really played persona but it seemed equally as complex as the other two as far as # of mechanics...on top of an rc, burst a universal overhead ala dust etc. it's got those kof style rolls and change of direction mid airdash, fatal counters all that. The mechanics that makes gear complex imo are the engine based possibly unintentional things that they chose to keep like jump install and impossible dusts.
I think people will find xrd a lot less complex than what they expect out of a modern asw game.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
P4U's tutorial did more to turn me away from that game than anything else.
By the time I had gotten through all of the system mechanics, my eyes had pretty much glazed over.
By the time I had gotten through all of the system mechanics, my eyes had pretty much glazed over.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I just found throw combos for charizard
I really want to like Charizard but his mobility is killing me. Quite literally most of the time. He hits like a truck, but the rest is lacklustre.
Didn't CoD have Kanye the first year?
Best game series.
I think this is a good idea, or even simply stuff like KI's melds/Bungie's pop-up menus. On the flipside, I think if someone wants that information, they will take the effort to seek it out, so making them aware is probably sufficient as opposed to showing every piece of tech that comes out for Marvel 3 like an Eventhubs feed.
I don't know, I don't think Execution is a parameter that should be ignored - I do agree with you that it is not a major part of the bigger picture. But imo that is kind of the beauty of the modern fighter game and the freedoms the devs give us. As we spend more time on the game and we dig deeper into its capabilities we find, explore, and expand more on what the game has to offer. This is great, and I appreciate that the devs don't tell us how we are SUPPOSED to play, but at least help us master the basic & advanced mechanics to help send us on our way.
20 years later and new Virtua Fighter 2 tech has been found (Fuck you, you knew I was gonna mention VF somehow): http://virtuafighter.com/threads/new-vf2-technique-auto-3-taku-discovered-after-20-years.19795/
Similar threads
- Poll