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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
There's also that feel when you slam the foe with Firedance and no MP was spent to do it, so it balances out.
hipsterpants
Member
Ha, it's been a good long while since I've been anything more than an lurker on forums so my communication skills are a bit rusty. I thought Rinoa's development was actually really interesting because of how she basically started out as a nobody. Like I said, it's a huge difference compared to VII and especially IX (which as of right now is my favorite FF game). I think it's also the reason so many people (myself included) don't really like her that much as a character. It's hard not to compare her to far more unique (not sure that's the best word to use) female leads and find her rather lacking in comparison.
I'd say my biggest complaint with VIII story wise is the development of Squall and Rinoa's relationship, particularly after Disc 2 when Rinoa falls into a coma. While other people will often say his reaction was totally out of nowhere, I did notice the slow development of his affection for her. It felt more as if the timing of the whole coma came too early, like there was still development to be done but that had to rush it for gameplay purposes. I think this might be one of the instances where I thought that the hardware definitely held back what they wanted to show, as I imagine such subtle characterization was extremely difficult to do with the limits of the PS1.
Also it's pretty funny to note that it takes Squall an entire game of traveling all over the world, almost getting lost in space, and almost getting trapped in a time distortion for all eternity and all he gets at the end is a kiss. Meanwhile Cloud can spend the entire time ignoring or berating Tifa yet he gets laid no matter what. Poor Squall.
Meccanical
Member
I don't know what Tifa and Cloud you guys are talking about.
>_>
>_>
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
In that FF fanfiction I read in middle school though Rinoa ends up getting with Seifer anyways but Squall finds new love with Yuna (who is Tidus' sister). Cloud is their other roomate who goes into depression after Aeris overdoses on heroin.
No really, that's an actual fan fiction.
Sounds hot. Hit me up.
Don't actually
Then again, Squall actually ended up happy. Cloud was miserable in AC.
I'll respond to the rest later since I'm on my phone and I'm out at the moment.
I wish I could like this.
Because I would.
Well it's TRUE. I commented on this when last I played FF7 but Tifa lost a lot of sympathy from me because SEPHIROTH IS ENABLED BY HER ALONE. Everything Sepiroth does from the end of disc 1 on is because Tifa never bothered to speak up and get Cloud help. Instead she feeds him lie after lie after lie, to the point when Sephiroth is trying to tell Cloud the truth about himself, Tifa is the one who is lying.
Tifa is probably one of the worst girlfriends in the series. Rosa may have been a bland, perfect waifu, but she never actively tried to hurt Cecil while Golbez was trying to help him.
Tifa is probably one of the worst girlfriends in the series. Rosa may have been a bland, perfect waifu, but she never actively tried to hurt Cecil while Golbez was trying to help him.
hipsterpants
Member
Lol, I always liked Tifa even if she did enable Sephiroth to do his thing. I'm pretty sure Cloud was fucked even if even she had told him that he was wrong the entire time. I mean wasn't the reason Sephiroth was able to control Cloud was because of the JENOVA cells in him? Would her telling him that his memories were fake really have helped anything?
I kinda wish we'd get another FF with an ambiguous love interest thing like VII had up until Aerith dies. They clearly had fun screwing around with traditional character roles/personalities (that they clearly lost in the expanded universe). Like Tifa had no time for none of that "magic" or "ranged attack" bullshit and just fucking wrecks shit with her fists.
I kinda wish we'd get another FF with an ambiguous love interest thing like VII had up until Aerith dies. They clearly had fun screwing around with traditional character roles/personalities (that they clearly lost in the expanded universe). Like Tifa had no time for none of that "magic" or "ranged attack" bullshit and just fucking wrecks shit with her fists.
Final Fantasy fanfic is the best fanfic.
Spend the better part of your game pushing everyone away and you're probably not going to end up with a whole lot of passionate love in the end. Plus, Squall has cooties.
As for Cloud, even if you do choose all the Aerith options, which it sounds like you did because ignoring and berating don't really apply if you go with Tifa), it isn't that outlandish for them to capitalize on the moment anyway. On top of Cloud saving her in Nibelheim, they've known each other forever, went through the lifestream together, and thought it might be their last night on earth. I mean, good for them!
And is sex even implied if you choose the Aerith affinity? I don't even know because I always choose Tifa (or Barrett, because he is precious). But I feel like I've read before that the scene between Cloud and Tifa is toned down to no longer imply sex, just cuddling for warmth or something along those lines.
EXACTLY. Cloud had no idea he was batshit. Tifa recognized how fragile the guy was and that dropping something like 'hey idiot, you're not who you say you are' would have only driven him further into insanity or broke him completely. She did what she thought was best. It didn't work out entirely rosy, but the whole situation wasn't something a bartender could ever have prepared for anyway.
hipsterpants
Member
I actually went full Tifa when I first played through the game so it was pretty obvious that they had sex in my first playthrough. I honestly can't remember what happens if you mostly ignore her. I'm pretty sure it's still implied but waaaay less obvious and left more open to interpretation. Anyway I always feel it best for story purposes to keep the canon love interest in your party during your first playthrough (except for poor Rinoa lol), makes things gel a lot better when it comes to big story moments.
Her speaking up would have helped everything. Sephiroth manages to get control over Cloud because when Cloud does find out that Tifa is lying, his only choice is to believe the lies that Sephiroth and Hojo feed him. Think about it: if Cloud had known he was crazy, and the team had known he was crazy, would they have trusted him with the Black Materia? Nope. Not even for a minute. If they'd known Cloud's story was bunk back in Kalm, you'd better believe people would've been more careful around Cloud, and therefore Sephiroth wouldn't have been able to exploit him nearly as much. The JENOVA cells helped the process, but Cloud's grip on sanity was loosened, not held, by Tifa.
Girl meets him basically the day Zack gets diced by an army of Shin-Ra soldiers. If she'd taken and gotten him helped THEN, JENOVA cells wouldn't've meant squat. Remember that final battle at the end of the game that is only between Cloud's and Sephiroth's wills? Someone with a strong will doesn't bend to JENOVA cells is what that proves. So if Tifa'd helped Cloud instead of Sephiroth, a lot of people would not have died.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Teefs, ya dun goofed.
She's hardly the only person who could've solved everything by fixing one thing in the series, though. Cosmos could've ended the entire war at any moment by, well, not forcing more people to fight it, or just telling them the truth in the first place. Auron let a lot of terrible things happen because he kept his mouth shut, too. Honestly though, I think half the idea in X was that people weren't telling you things you really needed to know.
Tifa didn't do it because she thought it was best for him. She did it because she thought she might lose him, it was pretty much a selfish act.
She also hasn't known him forever, they weren't even actually friends.
Anyways the canon love interest is up to the player. There's a reason Square hasn't commented on who it is and it's not because they expect people to figure it out.
She also hasn't known him forever, they weren't even actually friends.
Anyways the canon love interest is up to the player. There's a reason Square hasn't commented on who it is and it's not because they expect people to figure it out.
Tifa's thinking it was best for him stops being her excuse when Sephiroth is there telling Cloud the truth and she keeps lying to him anyway. That's where she crosses the line, because her lies make it so that Cloud can't separate the truth in what Sephiroth says from the lies, and lead to his thinking he's a failed clone and handing the Black Materia over.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Cosmos and Etro are tied for being among the worst goddesses of all time.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
By the way, where did you get all that extra background info on the Dissidia-verse? Was I just not paying enough attention during the main story, or is there some BS involved?
She totally did. But without the gift of prophecy or the entire script of FFVII laid out in front of her, she couldn't possibly know the outcome (obvs she was NOT in cahoots with Seph). Hell, in my own life, I've held things back from friends or family because I didn't know the full story.
It's actually really believable that Tifa would do what she did. Most people have an incredibly hard time telling loved ones there's something wrong with them. Especially when they don't understand what it is. Cloud needed a full on psych unit to fix his crazy.
You mean...spend maybe part of the first disc being distant and acting like he doesn't care but actually he does and even then still cares about the others?
And like I said, Squall got the happy ending. Cloud was miserable after VII(though who can blame him) and spends half his time moping.
Pretty much.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I get that and I don't know the whole story since I'm still playing through VII, but from the sounds of it, Tifa continued lying even after it was readily apparent that it was detrimental to Cloud. I dunno if that's the case, but if so, it makes me much less sympathetic.
Hard to remember, 'cuz a lot of this is stuff Magius and I talked about way back in like, '07. Some of it is inferred, and some of it implied in game. But the relationship between WoL and Cosmos is a doozy. Consider: WoL is a clone of the man who is married to the woman from whom Cosmos was cloned. Said progenitor couple had a son, Chaos. Chaos is thus technically the brother of Cosmos and the WoL. He was obviously in love with Cosmos, but she also was created to act as a surrogate mother for him. Princess Sarah looks just like Cosmos. Chaos' future self kidnaps Sarah. This same future self, Garland, helps his past self, Chaos, fight a war against a woman who looks like the woman he tried to kidnap. The Warrior of Light promises to save Garland, kills his past self, fails to save Cosmos but saves Sarah, kills the Chaos that Garland becomes in the past, making this Chaos Garland's future self (and therefore the past-future-past future self) and saves Garland.
WEEE
Uh, Cloud freaks out and tries to kill Aerith. Tifa says NOTHING. Cloud says "Let's all go to Nibelheim!" and she says NOTHING. Not even as he goes into his house where he used to live and freaks out. Girl didn't need to see the script to realize after he tried to beat the shit out of his girlfriend that he was fucked up. There were giant neon signs every step of the journey saying "HEY TIFA DON'T GIVE CLOUD THE GODDAMN BLACK MATERIA HE IS CRAY" and she lets it happen.
And again, Sephiroth is right there, telling Cloud he's a goddamn clone, and Tifa sticks to her guns. There's a world of a difference between say, Yuna not telling Tidus she's on a journey to die, even if it is going to hurt his feelings down the road, and Tifa not telling Cloud he has gone bat shit insane even after he's basically tried to murder a member of the group.
What Tifa did isn't good or reasonable at all. It was messed up is what it is. You don't find a guy covered in blood and drool in a slum, dust him off and act like nothing has happened.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I didn't mean BS on your part, I meant BS like "well, there's this hidden datalog/online novella that you have to read".
But yeah, I got none of that from the main plot, so either I just wasn't paying attention or that info is coming from somewhere other than the main cutscenes.
And... wow to that backstory. Just... wow.
Did you get the Chaos and Cosmos reports? Cuz those explain about the backstory to Cid Lufaine and the start of the Cycles. The other half is when you realize that FF1 is the sequel to the Dissidia games, meaning WoL makes good on his promise to save Garland.
Also from Garlands POV Dissidia is an interquel, since for him everything his happening after the WoL kills him, but before he becomes Chaos.
encephalon
Member
Rinoa is great because she's so hopelessly naive and the game knows it. I think part of the reason why I like VIII is because the characters seem flawed in a realistic way (at least relative to Final Fantasy/JRPGs). Edit: Then again, as with all things VIII, maybe this mostly applies to Squall/Rinoa.
As opposed to FFXIII.
As opposed to FFXIII.
Why can't Lightning just see that Snowe is a HERO!? /Toriyama
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
So none of it was in the actual cutscenes, then? (I borrowed Dissidia from a friend so didn't have tons of time with it... just enough for the main story).
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
The Snow/Serah love story nearly single handedly got me to stop playing with how utterly sappy and idiotic it was.
I won't spoil anything then, but Tifa doesn't know every detail of Cloud's condition until quite late in the game. There are certain events that take place that illuminate the situation for her as much as they do for Cloud, only she pieces the picture together before he does. She did lie, no question, but she didn't do it because she's Seph's minion, or to keep Cloud from leaving her, or other such nonsense. She did it because she only knew half the story for the vast majority of the game, not to mention doubting her own memories early on, among several other reasons (hurting Cloud's ego, afraid of damaging his psyche, etc.).
I think how you interpret Tifa's actions comes down to how much you can empathize with with her. One of her most defining characteristics is how caring and loyal she is to her friends. She's doesn't want to hurt people, especially those she loves. These traits are so strong that she sometimes thinks with her heart rather than her head. Her strengths become her faults.
Anyway, you'll know the moment I'm talking about when you there. Come back and let us know what you think.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Damn Dissidia is great. It's so disappointing SE didn't announce Dissida HD or Dissidia 3 at TGS. I still play it with a friend every once in a while.
I would say it applies to all of them. It's just those two get the bulk of development and focus.
Seifer is an extremely flawed character. He seeks attention and does it by bullying others. He always wants to prove himself and by doing so he creates rivalries and enemies. Finally he's manipulated by Ultimecia into joining her when she attacks his insecurities and fears of being looked down upon and treated with disrespect.
Zell is the loudmouth because he also seeks attentions. His intentions however are nothing but good. He's social, he wants respect and to be treated equally. His constant bullying by Seifer makes it harder for him to control his anger and voice.
Selphie puts on this faux cheery attitude because she doesn't want to be excluded and treated poorly nor people to see her true feelings and insecurities.
Quistis and Irvine don't really the same kind of development but they're not completely ignored. They both still have their flaw and are acknowledged.
All this because of the sorceress war and how it affected them.
IT IS. Whatever happened to those PSP to PS3 conversions anyway? I figured Crisis Core and Dissidia were shoo-ins.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Gameplay wise, sure. Story? Eh... my dislike of Cosmos and her shenanigans is probably blinding me.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Oh and speaking as someone that played VII recently, yes Tifa behaved horrid for most of the games story. She is either lying to Cloud or gets all demure whenever Aerith is around or mentioned. Aerith and Tifa have looks opposite their character, which is hilarious.
First, no one said she's Sephiroths minion so I'm not even sure why that's being thrown out.
Second, I beat VII fairly recent but to show that she was actually worried he was leaving, I'll post the script.
Tifa:
I wanted to make sure...
But then I heard...you were going far away...
Tifa:
And I didn't want that...
Sure, you can say that it's false if someone is claiming her only reason for lying was this but to say it wasn't a reason at all is ridiculous.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Well of course. But I do enjoy that crazy story. 012 is better in that regard. It seems more focused, I guess because the importance revolves on a smaller cast despite everyone being there.
How is the Dissidia Gaf community? I saw a thread started a while back and it didn't get much activity.
It died pretty fast, especially once Narolf got banned.
Too bad since it's such a great and fun game. I wish I had been able to battle competitively online. It would be great to have tested my skills and improve since the battle system is so unique.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I love over the top, quirky, crazy, etc. as well (I'm a fan of Hellsing Ultimate and Sengoku Basara for crying out loud). I just didn't feel Dissidia's plot.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
What'd he do?
Sorry Xenoblade, I was so close to finishing you but...Pokemon has arrived and I'm addicted.
I don't think I'll be finishing A2 for a while either. Not that it matters.
I don't think I'll be finishing A2 for a while either. Not that it matters.
I believe he got perma'd for posting something that had already been posted and wasn't allowed. Might have been in a Kingdom Hearts thread.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Heh. I think he got banned in the Dissidia forum community as well.
Also our Gilgamesh lover recently got banned I see.
You can check out the original OT for shits and giggles. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371935
Was a bit more fun that Duodecim as we were all learning the ins and outs. Never got competitive though.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Magius? MAGIUS? MAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGIIIIUUUUUSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
When doesn't Magius get banned? Lol
Nah, it's all written on the side. If you play just the plot, you get the straightforward story of Cosmos' chumpions conquering Chaos. If you read the side info you get crazy stuff about Emperor making Dark Crystals, Shinryu treating World B as his personal farm, Cid Lufaine stabbing everyone in the back and one hell of a love triangle between WoL, Chaos and Cosmos.
You should finish Xenobrade.
Time to go sign onto GameFAQs and check my PMs.
Perm'd for doing really really creepy stuff. I'd leave it at that.
Plus the Duodecim thread he made kinda got off on thr wrong foot the moment he decided to make it about a cross-forum competitive scene instead of just getting gaffers to play the game. His initial OP was pretty much unreadable gibberish (and still kind of is, even after editing).
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Talkin' bout Narolf.
encephalon
Member
Seifer is another great character. With Seifer you have to remember that he acts the way he does specifically because he knows he's not cut out for SeeD.
I'd have to play the game again to pay more attention to Selphie, but I'm not sure Zell really has all that much depth to them. Quistis is somewhat interesting int he beginning, but not for long after that. And Irvine ... I just can't stand the guy lol. I'm not sure if that interferes with my ability to judge his "I'm afraid to make history" failure.