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[Zexen]

While I agree with the point, MMO's are poor examples here. Their volume of content is produced on the basis customers will be paying a subscription, or buying MT's out the ass. The content volume is the hook to get people spending, and so doesn't seem greatly relevant here.

He is arguing that there is too much content to fit on a single release, with MMO existing or even Star Citizen in the near future, I think it's wrong.

Not that I'm defending Square... But MMOs have monthly subscription fees to help subsidize the enormous cost.

There's a reason failed MMOs financially wreck a studio. Their assets usually aren't of the same fidelity as AAA games, either.

I'm talking about SE's excuse "game too big to fit on a single release". With multiple Blurays and cheap HDD prices by our days, I don't think there is such a thing as "too big"

Depends on how you look at it. Is it 'too big' from a technical perspective? probably not (hell, just look at Xenoblade on the WiiU). Is it 'too big' from a workload perspective? I guess this is the case, the ambition doesnt scale to a realistic timeframe, so they will push out the game in 'episodes'.

Well, seems they're talking about a technical perspective judging by this.

 

[Breakage]

Lol. So instead of 3 discs, it'll be 3 games. People will have to wait 8-10 years to drop the Omnislash on Sephiroth in glorious HD.

It isn't surprising when you realise that it's taken SE 10 years to get XV out the door.

 

[Gbraga]

I hope they give us some more specific info very soon. Use a word like "trilogy" rather than "multi-part series" and I'm already way more ok with it.

Having to end up paying $180 for the remake sucks, but it's a much better alternative than having what comes to my mind when I think of an episodic FFVII remake.

He is arguing that there is too much content to fit on a single release, with MMO existing or even Star Citizen in the near future, I think it's wrong.



I'm talking about SE's excuse "game too big to fit on a single release". With multiple Blurays and cheap HDD prices by our days, I don't think there is such a thing as "too big"

It's too big in budget, not (just) data size.

Basically, if they were to sell it for $60, it wouldn't be what fans wanted, because that'd be all they can afford while not losing money. Or at least that's what they're saying.

 

[JayBabay]

You guys arent understanding.

Witcher 3 was able to reuse assets all over the place. They dont have towns like Midgar, Golden Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, etc.

Witcher 3 is 1 playable character (with another character that plays very similiarly to him), he uses a 2 handed sword and a handful of spells. FF7 has 11 playable characters with their own unique playstyles (Swords, guns, spears, fists, fangs, etc) dozens of spells, dozens of summons, dozens of support materia.

Witcher 3 has 1 mini game, FF7 has 10+ mini games.

*edit* keep in mind, im not dogging on Witcher 3, its my GOTY right now.
Witcher 3 was made in poland where the devs where able to make the game for a smaller amount of money than it normally would.

These games arent comparable.

The action element of the combat adds a ton of extra processes on the hardware to handle the ranged and melee combat in real time. Aside from that, designing a hundred weapons skins or 40 spell animations that they already have blueprints for isn't going to be THAT hard. But, the mini games might be a little crazy unless they turn the snowboarding and the bike chase into arcade style games similar to fallout 4 cassettes but with better graphics, obviously.

For towns:
Midgar - Very Big, Kalm - Small, Cosmo Canyon - Small, Junon - Medium, Costa Del Sol - Small, Golden Saucer - Medium. If they follow the size of towns in scale to the way they are represented in the game, it will be entirely possible. Novigrad, for example, is likely larger than everything I listed after Midgar combined. The hardest part is the unique art direction each one needs to take as opposed to the copy paste buildings in Witcher.

The problem with this is to have an open overworld that renders all of these towns in real time on the world map. If they make an overworld that is as functional as the first one but not as graphically intensive as the tech demo we saw, then this dream can definitely become reality.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

None of those RPGs have the breadth of variety that FF7 does. (MMORPGs do but those games are on a different level.)

I disagree. when you break the game down, each area only has a few screens, some of these are reused at different points in the game, some of them are made longer by having dead end paths or exploration routes. It has many seperate locations, but no more than something like Skyrim. I replay the game every year or two, and can see no reason it would be difficult other than already mentioned. Because they are going to make 1 area the equivalent of 10 screens to move through and fight on, and this is the issue. They could easily rain that in. But they won't.

The game does not at all have more content than current RPG's. The difference is this is SE, so they will spend 2 years and half their budget on cut scenes and flashy shit, then wonder why it's so much work to make.

He is arguing that there is too much content to fit on a single release, with MMO existing or even Star Citizen in the near future, I think it's wrong.

Yeah I think it can be done in one release no problems other than time. I just don't think MMO's are a good basis for arguing volumes of content, because they NEED to have a lot of content to keep players subbed.

 

[Cynar]

You guys arent understanding.

Witcher 3 was able to reuse assets all over the place. They dont have towns like Midgar, Golden Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, etc.

Witcher 3 is 1 playable character (with another character that plays very similiarly to him), he uses a 2 handed sword and a handful of spells. FF7 has 11 playable characters with their own unique playstyles (Swords, guns, spears, fists, fangs, etc) dozens of spells, dozens of summons, dozens of support materia.

Witcher 3 has 1 mini game, FF7 has 10+ mini games.

*edit* keep in mind, im not dogging on Witcher 3, its my GOTY right now.
Witcher 3 was made in poland where the devs where able to make the game for a smaller amount of money than it normally would.

These games arent comparable.

You're drinking some koolaid my friend if you actually believe this.

 

[UrbanRats]

Your point? That's how they managed to create the game in the first place, back in the day, it looked like dogshit (compared to modern standards).
Tools may be better now, but not so much that creating high quality assets has become a breeze, considering the fidelity people are expecting.
Creating an NPC with FF7 graphics and creating an NPC with today's standards, isn't exactly the same thing.

-

Let's be real here, graphics like the ones we've seen in the gameplay demo, applied to every single unique locale seen in FF7, adjusted to include multiple view points (free camera, which mean more asset creation still) and probably a bit more freedom of movement (what before was a 2 roads crossing, will likely be something more now, because again, the gameplay isn't using fixed cameras, and it'd be weird to have such a level design).

You take all these elements into consideration, consider how much time (and money) big, AAA games like GTA or Witcher take to make (5+ years if you're fast and efficient) and then do a reality check.

People expecting them to recreate all of FF7, with those graphics, and in a timely manner, were being nothing short of delusional.

Whether you prefer this approach, or them releasing the game in, like, 7 years, that's another story, but it's obvious the investment would never have been worth it to SE in that case, so if this thing even exists, it has to be with all the qualifications of the case.
Take it or leave it.

FFXV for example was thought out as an open world since the very beginning (or rebirth, i should say) and, lo and behold, it uses a copy pasted map like any other open world game.
That's the reality of things, it takes a lot of time to create assets of this quality, for such a massive game, without resorting to copy paste design (like 99% of open worlds do).
FF7 doesn't have that luxury, because it has to adhere to an already told story, already set in place set pieces and scenarios.


Either you:

1) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, but cut out a lot of stuff.
2) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, complete, but cut production values significantly.
3) Get the game in a timely manner, in various episodes, complete and looking this good.
4) Get the game complete, in one go, and looking this good, but in 2020 if you're lucky (in which case you might as well wait for them to release all the episodes and buy the inevitable bundle).

What you can't have, is have the game in a timely manner, one go, full FF7 content with these production values.

SE may not be the best developer around, they may be slow, they may even be the worst idiots on the planet, whatever, doesn't change the fact that resources are limited for everyone, and something's gotta give.

 

[zma1013]

Final Fantasy III.5

You'll get the other III.5 later.

 

[The Last One]

They're still splitting the story so I'm still really disappointed. The interviews changed nothing for me.

 

[Sesuadra]

this way they won't be able to include the world map, right? because they would have to cut it in pieces?

 

[Neoweee]

Final Fantasy III.5

You'll get the other III.5 later.

More like 1.4.

or 1.16666666666666666666666666666667

 

[BibiMaghoo]

this way they won't be able to include the world map, right? because they would have to cut it in pieces?

No. The original game had the world map content on each disc. They just need to do the same with each episode.

 

[Sesuadra]

No. The original game had the world map content on each disc. They just need to do the same with each episode.

maybe..as long as I can play seamlessly as one game after every episode was released

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I'm absolutely fine with this. FFVII translated to modern design principles and with proper attention to detail applied to every scene and event would be one of the biggest games of all time.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Either you:

1) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, but cut out a lot of stuff.
2) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, complete, but cut production values significantly.
3) Get the game in a timely manner, in various episodes, complete and looking this good.
4) Get the game complete, in one go, and looking this good, but in 2020 if you're lucky (in which case you might as well wait for them to release all the episodes and buy the inevitable bundle).

What you can't have, is have the game in a timely manner, one go, full FF7 content with these production values.
.

Well technically speaking, they could hire more staff and take a financial hit in order to get the game out to those expectations.

Facetious feelings aside, I'd rather have a hit to production than a hit to pacing.

 

[UrbanRats]

^^^That's fair enough.

But i find it strange that people act like one of these episodes/games will match the Witcher 3 in content, or Fallout or whatever content rich game you want to compare it to. Square specifically doesn't want that amound of production cost.

I didn't say that, and i don't think it will.
W3 took years to make and was a massive endeavor.
FF7R was more of a crowd pleaser, and i don't think they ever meant to put that sort of effort into it.

Even still, the two games have a different structure as a said, and i don't think you can compare what it means to create a side quest in W3, compared to whatever happens in FF7.
I mean, FF is not like it has a TON of content, in those terms, but it has a lot of assets to create and set pieces and shit like that, that takes time and cash to do.

Maybe if this was their absolute flagship title, their FFXV, it could be done in a better way, but i don't see it like that.

 

[Nozem]

I'm ok with this. If multiple episodes are needed to make the entirety of FF7 look as good as the trailer then I will have no problem paying €60 for each episode.

 

[Styles]

Removing the overworld means the main theme will be gone too.

 

[potatohead]

Either you:

1) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, but cut out a lot of stuff.
2) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, complete, but cut production values significantly.
3) Get the game in a timely manner, in various episodes, complete and looking this good.
4) Get the game complete, in one go, and looking this good, but in 2020 if you're lucky (in which case you might as well wait for them to release all the episodes and buy the inevitable bundle).

What you can't have, is have the game in a timely manner, one go, full FF7 content with these production values.

Agreed.

Removing the overworld means the main theme will be gone too.

That would be one of the biggest mistakes of all time.

OF ALL TIME.

 

[ResidentDante]

Recently I bought a complete package of Resident Evil: Revelations 2, a game that was released episodically, but buying it later this was no issue for me. If FF7 does indeed end up being episodic, then they need to release each episode fairly quickly, if it's a Half-Life 2 episodes wait between each one I'd be very sceptical.

 

[hannuraina]

at least it's not mobile?

 

[Arxisz]

 

[Paracelsus]

Ironically, FF10 and 13 were both Kitase projects, while he had nothing to do with 12.

The man's best years have passed him a long time ago.

Ah, but I know, that's exactly why I put XII on a different ground, as if it's not by the same company even.

 

[fvng]

Only issue with Episodic release imo is that the game's story becomes anti climactic. Ever watch walking dead and AMC had these mid season breaks and by the time the show returned you had lost interest?

 

[Frumix]

You'll have to buy part 1 in order to play part 2.

So that's $120 please.

You know this how? Oh, you don't.

 

[Breakage]

So I guess we'll be seeing "Previously on Final Fantasy VII..."

 

[Stallion Dan]

I guess this is how they afford to make a world that size in todays gaming world. They turn it into multiple games and you pay several times over.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

You're drinking some koolaid my friend if you actually believe this.

Believe what?

SE has no problem releasing a huge open world FFXV with great graphics and animations for 60 dollars. (no sequels, no paid DLC, no mictoransactions, no milking of any kind which is unheard of for a modern AAA game).

So when they tell me FF7 is too big of a project for a 1 time 60 dollar purchase i believe them.

 

[Paracelsus]

Recently I bought a complete package of Resident Evil: Revelations 2, a game that was released episodically, but buying it later this was no issue for me. If FF7 does indeed end up being episodic, then they need to release each episode fairly quickly, if it's a Half-Life 2 episodes wait between each one I'd be very sceptical.

Is there an achievement on gaf for most numbers of same strawman in the same thread?

RE is an action game, a tps, a shooter, a bunch of corridors with a few sacks of worms to take down, and it was a remake of nothing, it was always meant to be episodic, so the pacing was tailored around that concept.

 

[JayBabay]

Ah, but I know, that's exactly why I put XII on a different ground, as if it's not by the same company even.

That's why I love you Gaf. The place I know will always share my appreciation for XII, sorely underrated everywhere else.

 

[Silver-tongued]

Believe what?

SE has no problem releasing a huge open world FFXV

You mean aside from the problem that made them take more than a decade to release it?

 

[BossDarkseid]

That's why I love you Gaf. The place I know will always share my appreciation for XII, sorely underrated everywhere else.

+1 to Ivalice Bros

 

[Pie and Beans]

A part of me wishes they'd waited til January to drop this shoe so that 2015 could have remained the "year of dreams".

That feeling of leaving Midgar and the whole fucking world suddenly opening up will be cruelly missing from this Remake "series". Also, the ability to get the extra characters whenever will be gone as well. The things that made FF7 genre defining to me will not be in the remake. A sign of the times.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I guess this is how they afford to make a world that size in todays gaming world. They turn it into multiple games and you pay several times over.

The size of the game will probably be smaller than XV, the size of the world isnt the problem.


FFXV 1 playable character
FF7remake-11 playable characters

FFXV-7 summons
FF7remake-dozens of summons

FFXV-a couple of mini games
FF7 remake-10+ mini games

Not to mention the incredible amount of enviornmental variety in FF7. Midgar, the world map, Cosmo Canyon, Golden Saucer, all of those look completely different. They cant reuse assets.

 

[potatohead]

+1 to Ivalice Bros

+2, gorgeous game, gorgeous universe, gorgeous gameplay.

 

[JoeNut]

This is going to be a disaster

 

[pswii60]

I like how they completely avoid the word 'episodic'. Still, I have no issue with this news if it means I can start to play it earlier, I can't stomach such a large JRPG in one go anyway. Of course, the risk is the series gets delayed or never completed.

 

[Paracelsus]

Believe what?

SE has no problem releasing a huge open world FFXV with great graphics and animations for 60 dollars. (no sequels, no paid DLC, no mictoransactions, no milking of any kind which is unheard of for a modern AAA game).

So when they tell me FF7 is too big of a project for a 1 time 60 dollar purchase i believe them.

Have you forgotten the part where FFXV is a. originally not meant as a mothership entry b. officially unveiled ten years ago. b. rebooted at least once, possibly twice c. changed only god knows how many core staff members let alone the frickin director and engine d. still unreleased after almost ten years later?

Oh, and the whole "we have to do FFXIV twice to get it right once". Sure, believe them.

 

[R0nn]

I had a feeling this would happen, seeing how the latest trailer basically only shows scenes from the bombing mission.

So yeah, part 1 might be everything that takes place within Midgar and then part 2 will continue on from the escape from Midgar scene. Or maybe the first part will only cover the entirety of the bombing mission even. If that's the case, then each part would be really light on content, so I'd hope it gets priced accordingly and there isn't too much time in between releases.

 

[tuxfool]

Either you:

1) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, but cut out a lot of stuff.
2) Get the game in a timely manner, in one go, complete, but cut production values significantly.
3) Get the game in a timely manner, in various episodes, complete and looking this good.
4) Get the game complete, in one go, and looking this good, but in 2020 if you're lucky (in which case you might as well wait for them to release all the episodes and buy the inevitable bundle).

What you can't have, is have the game in a timely manner, one go, full FF7 content with these production values.

There is also another thing not being stated. If they wanted to keep asset quality as shown in the trailer, there is no way they could justify an entire game for just 60$. This is doubly true as the JRPG market isn't what it used to be.

So they don't want to cut content, they want to make a modern looking game and they are remaking an old game that didn't have the asset production issues as found in the games of today.

 

[Seik]

What a big, massive let down after that awesome trailer we got this week-end.

I feel so betrayed, I thought Square were being good at what they were doing again after all this time.

 

[ElfArmy177]

You guys realize this is the only way you're gonna play it within the next 4 years right?

 

[Haunted]

wooooooow

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

You guys realize this is the only way you're gonna play it within the next 4 years right?

Yup, and its the only way we are going to get a full remake without abunch of stuff getting cut out.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

You guys realize this is the only way you're gonna play it within the next 4 years right?

I think a fair portion of people would rather wait a few years for the game they wanted, than a stripped and added telltale version next year.

 

[Snaku]

And there goes my morning wood.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I think a fair portion of people would rather wait a few years for the game they wanted, than a stripped and added telltale version next year.

Wait until the game is completely done then.

 

[djtiesto]

And I thought making it into a button mashy action RPG was the worst thing they could do... that's child's play compared to this. Remember how well the After Years turned out?

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Wait until the game is completely done then.

Are you suggesting that making it episodic will have no impact on it's content and pacing? That all however many episodes will play out as if it was one game remade? If so your faith is greater than mine by some margin.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

You guys realize this is the only way you're gonna play it within the next 4 years right?

I think most fans would rather wait a few years longer for a complete QUALITY product than this dripfeed nonsense.