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Final Fantasy XIII PC |OT| Lightning must not be forgotten
- Thread starter Yoshichan
- Start date
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Just reached Gran Pulse.
Been grinding dem behemoths.
Been grinding dem behemoths.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
She tells him that it was the Sanctum that kill her mother. That's more effort that the one Snow deserves. Also regarding his guilt on Hope's mother, he admit he was at fault too. Case resolved.
What he admitted to and what actually happened are 2 different things. The game seems to believe Snow was at fault but when analyzing what actually happened, there is nothing to suggest that he is at fault.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Are you using GeDoSaTo? If so, I'd love to see some screenshots.
xBladeM6x
Member
I second this motion.
Wait, she punched Snow to bring him back to reality? What kind of stupid reasoning is that?
She was angry and being an idiot. Period. The game itself is seemingly aware of Lightning's problems for the first half of the game, and it was Snow's determination that actually made her hesitate the third time.
She was angry and being an idiot. Period. The game itself is seemingly aware of Lightning's problems for the first half of the game, and it was Snow's determination that actually made her hesitate the third time.
I would upload some 4K screenshots of Gran Pulse if I could find a good site to upload uncompressed images.
Minus and abload are the go-to.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
He made poor decisions on the battlefield and people died, his motto is:"Heroes don't need plans", turns out that yes, you need plans or the people that fight on your command might die. That's what happened, he recklessly tried to backflip and grab a missile launcher, because heroes would always grab it right? but he failed, the result? all civilians died with Hope's mother being the direct victim of his failure.
The narrative is faulty, like in 90% of the game, but the game is telling you that talking big is not enough, and when you lead people to fight and die because of poorly made decisions is partially your fault.
Case resolved what? All Snow did was trying to help a group of people who had already given up. And he didn't ask Hope's mom to join them.
Well the alternative was death anyway. It's not like there was a military strategist providing alternative options. Blaming Snow for something that would have happened anyway makes no sense and some people did make it out. More importantly for the mother, her son Hope made it out alive. Snow gave people an option when there was none.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Again, is something not really clear. Could they made a barricade? a distraction for the people to run away?. Again, the narrative is really faulty here, but the idea that the game tells you is that.
I feel is more ridiculous when the game tries to blame Vanille and Fang for awakening, like they had any choose in that...
When soldiers join to fight they aren't meant to die on the fighting, you realize that?.
Hope mother wasn't trying to practice suicide. I'm not accusing of Snow making people join the fight, the game is not telling you that, it tells you having people fight alongside means you are also responsible for their wellbeing and the decisions you make in the battlefield might decide if they live or die. Turns out that Snow is a reckless man, who thinks that everything will turn out fine because he's a hero, he always talks about saving all people, but in the end, lots of people died he thinks he's a hero and that's is enough.
I think I'm just gonna use the steam logo to keep it simple
I think I might just roll with this revised design. I'll just add the name to the spine
I still fail to see why we're arguing about whether it's Snow's fault of if the mother chose to go by herself or not or whatever.
It's not really relevant.
Your loved one dies following/protecting a dumb guy believing he's superman, don't tell me you'll shake his hand and take him out for lunch.
At least a part of you will hate his guts for a time, regardless of the facts.
It's not really relevant.
Your loved one dies following/protecting a dumb guy believing he's superman, don't tell me you'll shake his hand and take him out for lunch.
At least a part of you will hate his guts for a time, regardless of the facts.
Snow never asked Nora to fight. She chose to because she thought it was the best way to protect Hope. In fact, it was some random guy in the crowd that suggested helping them.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That's also true, he's a kid that saw her mother die and that he'll either will become a crystal or a monster. He's isn't exactly in his best state of mind.
I don't think anyone blames Hope for being upset. He should be upset. The problem is that he was going to
murder Snow in cold blood even after Lightning told him "Operation Nora" was over.
Well put. People like to gloss over the spoilered part.
There was this giant ship that shot lots of bullets at them. They literally had not enough cover unless someone was trying to do something. Snow told Hope's mom to stay down. (but she did not) And he ran forward and tried grabbing the gun.
All this Hero talk was mostly from Gadot, besides Snow said that they were just trying to get a bunch of helpless people to believe in something.
better have guts then doing nothing at all.
I still don't see why it's so surprising, especially since Lightning, as someone else put it earlier, enabled him.
Also I don't see anyone blaming
Sahz
It's probably one of the only things I find interesting in the story so far.
Sazh wouldn't have been justified either.
One difference though is Sazh actually made the decision not to harm Vanille.
Hope was seconds away from murdering Snow and was only stopped by an explosion.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
I'll have to take some better ones of GP. Only got one and it's a bit crap.
4k downsampled to 1080p
Don't think the spine should cut at the wrist. Bad model photography mistake usually. If you want to go near the wrist, show the hand, or don't go near the wrist at all.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Gorgeous.
Now I just need to stop restarting so I can get there myself. >_<
EDIT: Ground texture's pretty rough, I guess, but otherwise that really holds up.
This song is amazing and often underrated.It really sets the tone in the hanging edge imo.Its also a really awesome darker version of the prelude(again a very under appreciated song)
This is one of the best songs in the game too.It really,really fits with themes of the game.
Honestly after playing hitman absolution, the difference in the quality of custscene direction and the quality of the music is astonishing! The only other games that come to FFXIII close are MGS4 and TLoU.
I really think the fireworks scenes in Bodhum are iconic and the warmest and most endearing cutscenes of the game.Even the serah~snow cutscene is really touching.(I amnot really a huge fan of that couple.)Also this song is too cute
Its really shocking to me that people say FFXIII is one of the worst stories in the generation because to me it just keeps getting better with age and I am fully aware that its flawed ,but the flaws are endearing to me.
And yeah I am still at lake bresha......
This is one of the best songs in the game too.It really,really fits with themes of the game.
Honestly after playing hitman absolution, the difference in the quality of custscene direction and the quality of the music is astonishing! The only other games that come to FFXIII close are MGS4 and TLoU.
I really think the fireworks scenes in Bodhum are iconic and the warmest and most endearing cutscenes of the game.Even the serah~snow cutscene is really touching.(I amnot really a huge fan of that couple.)Also this song is too cute
Its really shocking to me that people say FFXIII is one of the worst stories in the generation because to me it just keeps getting better with age and I am fully aware that its flawed ,but the flaws are endearing to me.
And yeah I am still at lake bresha......
I'm as big a critic of Lightning's actions regarding Snow and Hope as there is, but this just isn't true. She does try to dissuade Hope. She just doesn't try nearly enough and isn't nearly direct enough.
Lightning : "Snow didn't kill your mother,the sanctum did."
Hope : "Whose side are you on ?"
Lightning : " The side of truth"
How more direct could she be ?
Hope was far too angry and desperate to think at all...Lightning tried hard to convince about how wrong he is and how she too was driven by anger against snow,unjustly so...
This is why she explains why she chose her name to him in the super melodramatic sewers scene.
There is a very large gap in between "shaking his hand and going out to lunch" and "trying to kill him". Hope skipped everything in between and jump straight to "I'm going to murder him".
Whether it's justified or not is not the point imo. It's not justified, it's understandable. It's flawed, human. It's just revenge, punishment.
Hope was "saved" by dumb plot device,
Sahz
Both cases are surprisingly grim for a FF imo, and far from bland moral heroes we're used to. It's a grey area. Lightning is a a grey character too. They all are, I think it's what the game was trying to convey (I don't know for Fang yet).
Actually in Hope's case I wouldn't be surprised if it was even darker originally, since in the datalog there are several instances where the entries don't really match the cutscenes.
But people try to kill in revenge all the time in fiction and even in real life. It's not justified, it's just a reaction people can have. I don't know if it's because it's a game or a kid, but I'm really surprised posters can argue about reasons and excuses and morals like it shouldn't have happened at all instead of "welcoming" it like something potentially interesting.
It was really, really badly done though.
ummm he wanted to kill him because his mother died..
An eye for an eye..Not saying hope's right in doing so but that's what was happening in his warped mind.
How could she be more direct, you ask? That's easy.
Lightning: "Hope... don't kill Snow. And next time we all see each other, we're all going to talk about what happened."
Lightning knew what Hope was going through and she knew what path he was on. Hell, she set him on that path and encouraged him. So she obviously knew the severity of the situation. Especially since she thought it important enough to try to warn Snow over the phone. And on that note, Lightning is stupid for not saying something earlier when she was standing right next to Snow. Hope's a 14 year old running on pure emotion. Sometimes you have to be completely direct for them to get the point.
I think you missed the point. I was addressing how people try to justify Hope wanting to murder Snow by using the false dichotomy of "well you expect Hope to get along with Snow after what happened?". It's a false dichotomy because they present only two options when in reality there are far more than that.
Hope's boss fight should have been an Eidolon boss fight..
It bogles my mind that they missed this obvious window to set up an Eidolon battle.
Instead they forced a cutscene on Pulse.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Oh yeah, that's laughable.
As I said, the narrative and characterization in XIII is really bad, there are some interesting themes but they never manages to pull it correctly.
How about not giving him a knife she had no reason to part with? How about telling him "don't kill Snow, it's dumb and bad and you'll regret it"?
Let's be honest here, Lightning just stating the obvious about the sanctum and just leaving it at that is just an example of dumb lazy bad writing. He's even shown hesitating a number of times. Lightning just does more to encourage him than to dissuade him.
See, imo, Hope wanting to kill Snow =/= bad writing
The knife, the WAY too many times they had the chance to settle it and being interrupted by explosions and stuff, the game doing all it can to put the bad words in Snow's mouth, Lightning's dumbness about it, and way too many instances I'm too lazy to list = bad writing
Edit: oh and also NORA and Nora, roflcopter. I almost really facepalmed at that.
The problem lies there imo, not in Hope wanting to kill Snow. I don't get why it's the focus of the complaints. If he pulled a
Sahz
Don't forget lightning blamed Snow for Serah's turning into a crystal.(which she assumed = dead)
I think that's the main reason she couldn't put on a hold on hope as well as she should have.
Hope gravitated towards lightning because she was the strongest of the group and she openly showed signs of resentment towards snow.
And that turned into a semi toxic relationship between hope and light.
I also think lightning was focused on getting him to his father more than anything else.She somehow thought this would be a solution.Then the unexpected sanctum attack happened.
shit...you are referring to that awful FFX novel right ? X___X
But yeah SE screwed up big time
on never showing a wedding at the end of LR.
I agree for the most part. I was just addressing the claim that she did absolutely nothing to dissuade him. Facts are important and the facts say that she did as least attempt to dissuade him. Even if it was an incredibly half-assed attempt.
It just so happens that I also think Hope is stupid for wanting to kill Snow. But you're right about how everything around that is just full of horrible writing.
Yeah. They had to pad out the Pulse scenes somehow though! Speaking of which, the should have done what you said and added more event scenes in Pulse. The conversation between Fang and Sazh with the chocobos was random but extremely appreciated and a nice touch.
They should have went all the way and show Lightning tempted by the idea of Snow getting killed because she feels he's reponsible for what happened to Serah. Would have made more sense with the knife and all (was it planned at some point?)
I guess we could argue it's actually idea but something is missing.
I guess we could argue it's actually idea but something is missing.
Someone else=me
I think this is explicitly in the game.
Happened in lake bresha and the pulse vestige.She blatantly blames him.
Lightning had a deep seated hatred towards snow.He broke up her family(in her opinion) and eventually was inept at protecting serah in time of danger.
To the Japanese speakers, was there anything lost in translation with this game? I've always wondered that. I heard the English localization added their own little twists and didn't clarify a lot
.
like how everyone thought it was the fal'cie Anima that branded the cast when it was really one of the Gods, revealed by an ultimania later on
now I can play with lightning from the comfort of my bed!
eh, I'll see how to works out
eh, I'll see how to works out
Yeah I know she blames him, I mean during the whole time she's with Hope and gives him the knife. It just feels to me they shied away from showing or alluding she wouldn't have minded if the kid pulled it successfully. Something is missing.
In the end her half assed attempt to discourage him and the knife gift is just that, but it's not shown that way for some reason. Maybe they didn't want to taint their perfect goddess in the making
now I can play with lightning from the comfort of my bed!
ok...how ?? x]
Yup, she does try to dissuade him. Her initial attempt backfired (the whole talk about keeping your emotions in check) as she thought Hope was only thinking about surviving but he used that advice to form operation nora.
She realises what she's done and tries to fix it a little later which kind of works, she apologises and in at least the japanese audio, she tells him to stop the operation. With the english translation, Hope understands that his want for revenge is wrong/misplaced. From this point leading up to PalumPolum, both Hope and Lightning are lost and unsure what to do, Lightning is only pushing on for Hope's sake as she doesn't want him go down that path and hopes to find a reason for him to continue on. Hope at this stage is only following Lightning because he doesn't know what else to do. It just so happens that Snow was the one to save them in PalumPolum and just riles Hope up even more.
And the whole thing with the knife, in the japanese audio, Lightning gives the knife to Hope for protection (She says it's an Omamori). The english translation leaves it to your imagine - she says "I'll want that back".
She realises what she's done and tries to fix it a little later which kind of works, she apologises and in at least the japanese audio, she tells him to stop the operation. With the english translation, Hope understands that his want for revenge is wrong/misplaced. From this point leading up to PalumPolum, both Hope and Lightning are lost and unsure what to do, Lightning is only pushing on for Hope's sake as she doesn't want him go down that path and hopes to find a reason for him to continue on. Hope at this stage is only following Lightning because he doesn't know what else to do. It just so happens that Snow was the one to save them in PalumPolum and just riles Hope up even more.
And the whole thing with the knife, in the japanese audio, Lightning gives the knife to Hope for protection (She says it's an Omamori). The english translation leaves it to your imagine - she says "I'll want that back".
Yeah I know she blames him, I mean during the whole time she's with Hope and gives him the knife. It just feels to me they shied away from showing or alluding she wouldn't have minded if the kid pulled it successfully. Something is missing.
In the end her half assed attempt to discourage him and the knife gift is just that, but it's not shown that way for some reason. Maybe they didn't want to taint their perfect goddess in the making
I think there is enough in the game to conclude that...maybe more than enough