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[Valor]

They could go nerf free, but I'm not sure there's any incentive to preserving the 'challenge' in content that's going to be fairly pointless soon, and there are a few points that I don't think echo/gear will be able to nullify any time soon (T11 tethers just being the biggest and most obvious example.)

<bias>FCoB's fights are generally more fair and the mechanics and more straightforward, so that's why i feel they haven't nerfed the mechanics into the ground unlike SCoB.</bias>

Our pseudorandom GAF T13 farms were still unable to 100% of the time skip the third add, for instance, at 10% echo. The extra 5% might still not even make up for that.

I feel it does make up for exactly that unless the megaflare is skipped on the regular, then it's like nothing has ever changed. Bahamut-chan, why you so fiesty?

Yeah, echo is the worst offender to me as far as "nerfs" go: It makes up for never learning the game. Fight specific nerfs just make up for not learning the fight.

I never have had a problem with echo. I experienced it first while doing GLD level 30 nonsense. The fight is super stacked against you and no amount of knowing the fight can save you from some of those. Echo balances it a bit. Echo doesn't make Final Coil easier. It makes it less tedious. For heck's sake, there are/were still SCoB learning groups and FCoB learning groups with 10% echo, so it's not like people aren't learning the fight and being carried. You still need to do stuff to get by even though fail states aren't always insta-death. It gives you more margin for error, and I think that it works out well for all types of different players.

There's flying in Heavensward. Make a cannon that we can ride to Divebomb the boss and I'll be cool with that.

I like the cut of your jib. The Divebombed become the Divebombers.

i dont trust galen when he makes bad jokes

So... all the time?

 

[Stuart444]

Those new jobs will probably share gear with some of the other jobs so they'll have gear for it anyways.

It's still a minority of people who will wait til their new jobs are at 50 before starting/rushing through the MSQs.

 

[WolvenOne]

I know that

Spoiler

hence the lol... lol.

Pretty sure they said it was because i130 is still a bit high for story content in Heavensward (at least til half way through it) which doesn't make much sense imo considering everyone playing on their mains will probably be at i120 - i130 anyway. Only people who will be weaker than that are people who were jumping at the new jobs straight away so they can go through Heavensward content on those new jobs.

Keep in mind that as of now the highest ilvl dungeon gear is ilvl 100. It'd be weird for them to skip to ilv 135 gear or whatnot during the first story dungeon; most players wanted to be able to use their gear for the first dungeon or two anyway.

So, first dungeon will probably drop ilvl110 gear. Second will drop 120, then 130. If so, we won't see armor that is a definitive upgrade until the 4th or 5th dungeon, (probably the 4th.)

Thing is, in those first few dungeons, ilvl probably won't be as helpful, since you're still going to be a few actual levels below the level cap for these dungeons. Between that, the dungeons being unfamiliar, and these being story dungeons, (More mobs for leveling purposes, no real way to vastly outgear content, etc,) these dungeons will probably be more challenging than the bulk of HM's we've faced.

So, there's some incentive to get the better ilvl gear for these dungeons, but it's not necessary. You'll be able to tackle them with ilvl110 gear, if albeit more slowly. Overall it's probably a fairly decent design decision.

The only real downside is that getting ilvl130 weapons requires a lot of Poetics, and I can see some people valuing those weapons over any armor piece. Since the next highest ilvl weapon outside Relics is only ilvl115, I can see why the Poetics cap would be annoying. However, a better solution would probably be to reduce the number of Tomes needed to buy these weapons.

 

[Valor]

It's still a minority of people who will wait til their new jobs are at 50 before starting/rushing through the MSQs.

But you need to be level 50 to do story in Heavensward. So you'll need to get your new jobs to 50 before you can do the quests anyway. You also need to be ilevel 90 for Steps, so odds are it'll be a bit rough to try and get through stuff wearing AF gear in Heavensward. I agree with you, but I think they'll make it easy to get those new classes up to i90 + super quick.

 

[iammeiam]

Echo doesn't make Final Coil easier. It makes it less tedious.

...wut. Echo (+overgear, since you can't unmarry the two with the way they do things; we never get echo before overgear) makes FCoB so much easier. I'm not even sure how this is open for debate--we used to have people bickering over the proper and necessary use of poison pots because the DPS checks were so tight. Echo is 10% free damage plus extra health padding and healing output for healing checks. T12 and Bennu, T13 and echo making B4B no longer a death sentence (and compensates a lot for late/bad healing. I stopped counting times I should have killed everyone but echo padding last night), T11 and surviving nerve clouds that should have wiped everyone, T10's electroburst for failed mechanics being survivable with multiple stacks. It may not be total faceroll status yet, but I don't see how it's not easier. FCoB was all about checks and echo is a cheat code for those checks.

I also think it's made FCoB more tedious to farm as most of the challenge is gone and everything gets perfunctory, and people just get lazy (seeing the second Blackfire in a post-echo farm made me briefly debate wiping everyone because... Srsly?) but that I'll take as difference of opinion.

 

[LaneDS]

There's flying in Heavensward. Make a cannon that we can ride to Divebomb the boss and I'll be cool with that.

Einhander mount? Good call.

 

[Valor]

...wut.

I stand by what I said. In lieu of opening this into a debate of easy versus difficult, I think we're saying similar things but in different ways.

Echo makes DPS checks easier, sure. Echo makes tanks able to take more damage, sure. Echo makes it easier to heal, sure. Like I said and like you stated as well, mechanics are still there. However, I acknowledge that a lot of mechanics aren't success/death, so it feels easier since you can survive what you used to get killed by simply by the virtue of having way more health than you normally would have. I still feel echo makes it easiest for people who already know the fights and get them done and makes the learning curve way less steep. That said, there's still a learning curve and that's why I won't call it "easy".

I think it's just a matter of semantics, and I don't want to get a room in Rin's tower :<

 

[scy]

I'd like to note you're focusing a bit too much on the fights themselves. My comment was that Echo helps people skip learning how to play their class at the most general of levels. They only ever do 60% or 70% as well as they should be able to but Echo makes up for it. Overgearing and Echo can replace learning the basic part of the game while nerfs just matter for a specific fight. I don't disagree that Echo mostly increases margin for error but that's kind of the point I'm making? People use Echo to increase the margin to include them rather than just ... improve?

and my tower is way too crowded with just my own ego

I also think it's made FCoB more tedious to farm as most of the challenge is gone and everything gets perfunctory, and people just get lazy (seeing the second Blackfire in a post-echo farm made me briefly debate wiping everyone because... Srsly?) but that I'll take as difference of opinion.

I feel like those should be wiped just to punish everyone \o/

 

[Valor]

I'm of the mindset that the game doesn't do a great job teaching the players that they're doing things wrong and not playing as well as they could be. You may see echo as a way out of learning, but the problem goes deeper than that, I think.

Basically, the feedback system of good/bad isn't very apparently in this game as many people have pointed out. At this stage of development, echo is an easier hand holding tool than a tutorial would be. As seen with the Steps nerfs and echo being commonplace, it's a matter of keeping people around and allowing them to enjoy the game at their own pace and speed.

While I agree that people who play the game should want to play it well, the fact is that this game is much more casual friendly and echo is just a part of that. Maybe they'll change that direction in Heavensward to try and bring the skill floor of the population up a tad, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did not.

 

[scy]

It's mostly a mentality thing? Instead of improving, it's wait for other factors to make it doable. It's meeting the bare minimum and no more. I blame Echo for helping facilitate that mentality. I'd rather have fights changed to make them easier before making it easier to do basic roles.

Basically, I'd prefer Overgear -> Nerfs -> Echo instead of Overgear -> Echo -> Nerfs for the progression of making stuff easier.

 

[Frumix]

How about they fix the netcode so combos don't fall off for no reason and you don't lose on up to 50 dps just by living in the wrong part of the world. That'd be greater help than any Echo.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

How about they fix the netcode so combos don't fall off for no reason and you don't lose on up to 50 dps just by living in the wrong part of the world. That'd be greater help than any Echo.

welcome to online video games where latency is a thing that mostly can't be avoided?

Are you asking them to fix how distance and the internet works?

Stuff like Mudra lag I would like to see fixed but there is only so much they can do, especially if you live half way around the world from the servers.

EU servers would be a help but I'd probably still stay on Ultros anyway.

 

[Frumix]

welcome to online video games where latency is a thing that mostly can't be avoided?

Are you asking them to fix how distance and the internet works?

Stuff like Mudra lag I would like to see fixed but there is only so much they can do, especially if you live half way around the world from the servers.

EU servers would be a help but I'd probably still stay on Ultros anyway.

Yeah, well...
They could do something about awful double checks they're doing. They don't want to trust the client with abilities but apparently trusting client with the movement speed so bots can easily poshack is okay. Obviously they can't just implement tachyons but I think the way it's now they can do something about the situation. There's also the animation lag involved because for some reason it's so important that animations play out, sometimes I press something like Impulse Drive + Inner Release in quick succession and as a result BOTH abilities fail to go through. Huh? Likewise there's very little reason Mudras have to be queued as separate abilities.

Yeah, EU servers would be helpful too. So you remember those were going to be a thing? Coz they don't.

 

[Killthee]

http://t.co/5vknY9jVae

Sucks that it isn't PS4/PC......

 

[gryvan]

http://t.co/5vknY9jVae

Sucks that it isn't PS4/PC......

Don't believe their lies!!!!!!

 

[Sorian]

I see we are at the part of the patch where Frumix shits on the game? That ebb and flow is wild.

 

[Jayhawk]

A wild Victor Strange appears!

 

[Killthee]

A wild Victor Strange appears!

Is it June yet?

 

[Sorian]

Is it June yet?

Nope, Zzzz

 

[Valor]

How about they fix the netcode so combos don't fall off for no reason and you don't lose on up to 50 dps just by living in the wrong part of the world. That'd be greater help than any Echo.

Get moar accuracy

 

[Ruruja]

Just hit 50 Weaver and that top hat is dope.

 

[Aselith]

Just hit 50 Weaver and that top hat is dope.

Swallowtail is pimp as fuck too. Just a very nice looking class set overall.

 

[Croyles]

I want a boss mechanic in Heavensward where WE divebomb the fucking boss. Sweet sweet revenge.

 

[Isaccard]

Changing the difficulty and assessablity of coil for other player that didint clear it during progression is srs business?

But I'm a DF pleb/scrub so whatever I guess

 

[Kenai]

It's literally every primal theme playing at the same time.

Considering what it is it sounded WAY better than i thought it would (although still pretty messed up)

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I really wish I had more experience in 13 past the first add phase...so bad...=/

 

[Raijinken]

I really wish I had more experience in 13 past the first add phase...so bad...=/

The first add in phase 2 or the first set of adds in phase 3? How long have you been in turn 13 for?

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

It seems this game has become one of those games that becomes fun every time you come back. Like if I stop playing for a few days to a week and come back it feels fresh for some reason.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

1st set of adds in the second phase and I have only been in 13 for 3 weeks.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Finally!

I'm loving this game but it's sucking all my game time from other games. ;-;

 

[Aselith]

So this happened:

[0:17][FC]does garuda have a futa dick
[0:17][FC]...that is a mt.

 

[Rflagg]

Switched to keyboard and mouse on ps4, so good. I always forget how much I enjoy healing in a semi decent party, of course the better the party the better the experience.

 

[TastyOreoFriend]

Must be some unwritten rule I was not aware of where if the healer sleeps a mob its time to wake it the fuck up. Even had the tank questioning why I was sleeping mobs in Qarn normal. Well dumb ass its because your getting your shit quite literally pushed in with your no using cool downs ass. DONT WAKE THE FUCKING MOBS CHRIST

 

[barrin87]

Must be some unwritten rule I was not aware of where if the healer sleeps a mob its time to wake it the fuck up. Even had the tank questioning why I was sleeping mobs in Qarn normal. Well dumb ass its because your getting your shit quite literally pushed in with your no using cool downs ass. DONT WAKE THE FUCKING MOBS CHRIST

I seriously hate this as a BLM also. I cast sleep because it just makes it easier on everyone since it's less damage to deal with. Why is everyone else attacking everything st once?

Today sucked with groups today.

Ifrit HM
trying to rum it repeatedly to get a better weapon before I can get my relic. First two groups go great but the third was crap. Tanks keep fighting over who is the main tank and Ifrit is running all over the place which makes it really hard to dodge anything. We wipe three times in a row and after we abandon because the second tank isn't listening at all.

Titan regular
Got in this as my low level roulette while trying to get more soldiery tomes. Healer keeps getting caught in landslide and nobody but me is trying to get rid of stoned characters. After over 5 wipes I had enough and was horrible and closed out of the game completely.

 

[Hasemo]

I was able to get into 2 DF Turn 10 groups yesterday. One of them was terrible, tanks not being able to handle adds, people dying left and right. The final LB3 was used to resurrect half of the party.

And yet we won on our 2nd try, this 15% Echo really makes this fight a joke.
Can't complain though, since I'm there only for the int ring, which I haven't even seen drop yet after ~7 clears.

 

[Ozigizo]

How hard is going from mouse/keyboard to controller, out of curiosity. I want to get a double set up using the computer and PS4, and it looks like I might be the one using the PS4. I pretty much just play dps.

 

[Kilvas]

I think I messed up. I registered my PS4 copy of the game to my PSN ID. I then cancelled my Square Enix ID, because I wanted a new account. My PSN ID is linked to the cancelled Square Enix account. When I log in I only have the option to sign into the old account. Is there anything I can do?

 

[Semper88]

I was able to get into 2 DF Turn 10 groups yesterday. One of them was terrible, tanks not being able to handle adds, people dying left and right. The final LB3 was used to resurrect half of the party.

And yet we won on our 2nd try, this 15% Echo really makes this fight a joke.
Can't complain though, since I'm there only for the int ring, which I haven't even seen drop yet after ~7 clears.

Final coil is really forgiving with echo. Unless you forget to pick up an add haha (guilty as well sometimes)

Also 1 bar LB in T13 is some scary shit lol.. Dat tera flare.

 

[lazybones18]

So this happened:

sounds like a reasonable question to me lol

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Final coil is really forgiving with echo. Unless you forget to pick up an add haha (guilty as well sometimes)

Also 1 bar LB in T13 is some scary shit lol.. Dat tera flare.

Either tanks forget to pick up adds or healers aka WHM generate so much unnecessary aggro=dead healer.

 

[Drac]

How hard is going from mouse/keyboard to controller, out of curiosity. I want to get a double set up using the computer and PS4, and it looks like I might be the one using the PS4. I pretty much just play dps.

It took me maybe around one month to be as effective as k/m with a controller on my main mnk ? Granted I was just doing farm stuff and never the last floor of coil we were currently raiding.
Leveled my whm on a controller though after that and the switch for the sch (my main healer) took me one day to get used to, same with war tank.
I could have probably ditched the k/m much earlier but I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to slow down my group because of that.

 

[Semper88]

Either tanks forget to pick up adds or healers aka WHM generate so much unnecessary aggro=dead healer.

Medica spammin WhM is horrid.. Once a mob starts bouncing you'll fall into a world of shit haha.

 

[Frumix]

Medica spammin WhM is horrid.. Once a mob starts bouncing you'll fall into a world of shit haha.

Tanks at 50 should be able to grab mobs through a rolling Medica II. It's not that powerful.

 

[Tiops]

Started my Zodiac yesterday. My wife got the Wanderer's Palace drop on the first try and I got on the second try. Don't know why people complain, seems pretty easy and fair.

Spoiler

I know that some drop will destroy my soul, I'm just trying to be positive.

 

[IvorB]

I'm loving this game but it's sucking all my game time from other games. ;-;

Yeah this definitely happens.

Must be some unwritten rule I was not aware of where if the healer sleeps a mob its time to wake it the fuck up. Even had the tank questioning why I was sleeping mobs in Qarn normal. Well dumb ass its because your getting your shit quite literally pushed in with your no using cool downs ass. DONT WAKE THE FUCKING MOBS CHRIST

I seriously hate this as a BLM also. I cast sleep because it just makes it easier on everyone since it's less damage to deal with. Why is everyone else attacking everything st once?

I reckon if you're going to try the sleeping strategy someone needs to be marking the kill order otherwise it just becomes a waste of time trying to sleep stuff 'cause no one knows who's being sleeped and who they should attack.

 

[Tiops]

When playing as SMN, if the Tank is decent, I bane everything, not caring about the sleeps. There really is no reason to do that in mid level dungeons if the tank can hold aggro of the mobs.

 

[Ozigizo]

It took me maybe around one month to be as effective as k/m with a controller on my main mnk ? Granted I was just doing farm stuff and never the last floor of coil we were currently raiding.
Leveled my whm on a controller though after that and the switch for the sch (my main healer) took me one day to get used to, same with war tank.
I could have probably ditched the k/m much earlier but I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to slow down my group because of that.

Alright, thanks. Luckily, I'll be jumping back in close to heavensward, so I'll have time getting used to it while leveling gunner.

 

[Kagari]

So we solo tanked Turn 13 last night and beat it. Here's the clear video: http://www.twitch.tv/nova_crystallis/c/6684040

 

[iammeiam]

Top of page so quote for context:

So we solo tanked Turn 13 last night and beat it. Here's the clear video: http://www.twitch.tv/nova_crystallis/c/6684040

I wasn't even going to post it out of combined fear of shattering Galen's fragile sense of self-worth by publicizing his inability to distinguish between buttons that will heal him and buttons that will kill him, and dooming us all as Rin's ego expands to even more immeasurable proportions. I don't know if there's spare land for a second tower.

Spoiler

of course we cleared. I died to stupidity. It summons clears

 

[PhillipCostigan]

If Angary dies to a divebomb it's like a good luck charm

next we need one of these healers to get gud and you guys can invite me to a solo tank AND solo heal T13, despite Kagari's protests.

just kick galen or something

:^)