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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War

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I don't see it this way at all. You don't have to charge your shots under the new buff. You're able to. So you can just keep doing the same old stuff or cancel the charge shot for Bloodletter. Depending on the damage increase from charged shots, charging a shot may be worth the 1-1.5 seconds of missed Bloodletter downtime.

Where did you see that you don't have to charge your shots under the buff? Because the explanation and even translation on the OF make it clear that having the buff up only allows you to do charged shots (aka every shot has a cast bar on it), you don't get another button that charges before using an attack (this also isn't Tera, you're not about to be able to hold a button down to charge before letting it go). If the buff is actually a dps gain, any bard worth their salt will want it up as much as possible so they can maximize their potential once they understand how fights work. Cancelling a charged shot will be a dps loss, going in and out of stance will be a dps loss because of the cast time on the song, it will be all about maximizing song uptime and not running around for half the fight in song while not being able to auto attack or use any abilities.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Huh. Just noticed in the Dragonsong video that you're walking with Ice Heart and that dragoon. So maybe she's not a big villain?

Ysayle was never meant to be a clear-cut villain. The narrative is that the conflict between the man and the dragon does not benefit anybody.
In the original Japanese dialogue she sounds a bit less angry and a bit more desperate.
 

Semper88

Member
Warriors getting a DPS stance...

200.gif
 

scy

Member
I still think the damage has to be something like +100% potency buff for it to be worthwhile. If auto attacks are 100 potency, increasing 50% on Heavy shot brings you from 150 -> 225 versus 250 with auto attack + Heavy Shot. That's a DPS loss. 300 versus 250 would actually turn that into a DPS gain, which would make it more useful. The charge time appears to be the same as a regular GCD, but I guess the downside is that you can't pop oGCDs during charges? Maybe you can? Still a lot of unanswered questions about the Minuet, which I guess is fine since we heard about it not even twelve hours ago. Still, I just wanna know ;-;

As far as I can tell, they are literally spells so just treat them as a physical BLM. You can queue an oGCD in between casts but it will slightly eat into the next cast.

Also, "100 potency" is a little misleading. Auto attacks are 100 potency averaged out over 3s. And comparing vs Heavy Shot alone is a little weird? You're looking at the total potency per tick and all the DoTs will gain this bonus potency as well so you need to calculate avg pps and see if the gain is greater than the average auto-attack pps.

Napkin math basically says you only need around a ~30% increase for it to blow AAs out entirely.
 

Tabris

Member
How do I pre-order FFXIV Digital Collection Edition for PS4? I only see physical copy options for PS4 on Square Enix store.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Japanese twitter account tweeted that preorders for both regular and collector editions are up on the Japanese PS Store.
I'm guessing that EU and US stores will follow during working hours in both regions.
 
Oh my god the "Dragonsong" video with the story teases!
I can't wait to find out how we become allied with Iceheart.
Song is beautiful, too. I like that's it's tonally a 180 from the operatic "Answers".

And the dungeon crawl video! Dat jazz in the
Sharlayan
library! And the electronic in those clearly Allagan themed dungeons!

Why isn't it June yet?
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
From Lodestone:
[PS3™][PS4™] Regarding Resumption of “FINAL FANTASY XIV: Heavensward (Add-On)” Download (May 22)

Previously, we notified you of an issue with the “FINAL FANTASY XIV: Heavensward (Add-On)” download content for the PlayStation®3 and PlayStation®4 systems which caused FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn to fail at the version check, resulting in the game not starting.
* This is the data that is downloaded when a customer enters their 12-digit pre-purchase code in the PlayStation® Store.

Although this issue has been resolved, code registration through the PlayStation®Store is currently suspended. As for when code registration will resume, we will inform you as soon as the date has been determined.

We deeply apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.
 

Tash

Member
A bit worried about SCH now.
I really don't see a reason for an AoE E4E unless they change the actual skill quite a bit.
AoE adlo is also kinda situational imo..it's nice but mostly useful if you actually crit. Not sure the difference of Succor and Adlo on a normal AoE attack is going to make a huge difference and if you are counting on it for having it up for a huge incoming hit then gl with that RNG..

I also don't see myself sacrificing my fairy if I don't have swiftcast up. That must me some really super uber boost for me to consider cutting my hand off for a CD..

Astrologer seems like it might be able to replace SCH..not sure how it could not with all the added support options. and WHM is pretty much solidifying his position as pure healer.

Me playing AST: "Wait, this is the right card..no wait..this one. Oh ok, I safe that one for later..." *about 6 CDs later" Ok, guys, got it! Oh crap, dropped all my cards.."
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
SCHs still have the traited Virus which is a better mitigation tool than a traited Protect.
What do ASTs have besides a weird RNG-based buff mechanic that shouldn't end up being of consequence since it's RNG-based?
They give WHM options to DPS with but without better mana restoration it's not gonna matter. Yeah, Holy II heals some damage back, cool. Now try using that in raids.

Man, would it kill them to just post an ability list.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
SCHs still have the traited Virus which is a better mitigation tool than a traited Protect.
What do ASTs have besides a weird RNG-based buff mechanic that shouldn't end up being of consequence since it's RNG-based?
They give WHM options to DPS with but without better mana restoration it's not gonna matter. Yeah, Holy II heals some damage back, cool. Now try using that in raids.

Man, would it kill them to just post an ability list.
Probably still tweaking the numbers.
 

Stuart444

Member
SCHs still have the traited Virus which is a better mitigation tool than a traited Protect.
What do ASTs have besides a weird RNG-based buff mechanic that shouldn't end up being of consequence since it's RNG-based?
They give WHM options to DPS with but without better mana restoration it's not gonna matter. Yeah, Holy II heals some damage back, cool. Now try using that in raids.

Man, would it kill them to just post an ability list.

Why ruin the surprise?

Or they are saving it for the 3.0 patch reading, (assuming every new job action will be listed in it) take your pick.

edit:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/1d6bf57d9dc2f131c1b308a2189f9f73d1f459de

The FINAL FANTASY XIV Materials Usage License has been revised.
The musical composition entitled "Dragonsong", featured in the trailer "FINAL FANTASY XIV - Dragonsong" released on May 21, 2015, may not be used.
 
They gave use some numbers on BLM, which was the class they used for the in depth examples, then they said they'll go over every class but quicker cause it'd take too long, which makes sense.

When they're doing the patch notes things we might know more but I don't know if they'll read everything, it sounds extremely long considering. I think they'll just read the key points and explains how they work and stuff(new features etc). Just hope they post the patch notes right after so we can read the class changes in detail and stuff.
 

Valor

Member
As far as I can tell, they are literally spells so just treat them as a physical BLM. You can queue an oGCD in between casts but it will slightly eat into the next cast.

Also, "100 potency" is a little misleading. Auto attacks are 100 potency averaged out over 3s. And comparing vs Heavy Shot alone is a little weird? You're looking at the total potency per tick and all the DoTs will gain this bonus potency as well so you need to calculate avg pps and see if the gain is greater than the average auto-attack pps.

Napkin math basically says you only need around a ~30% increase for it to blow AAs out entirely.
100 potency over 3 seconds differs how exact from 150 potency over 2.5 seconds? Heavy Shot is your basic attack that has the highest potency per shot that isn't Misery's End. It's not an end-all-be-all of the scenario, but shouldn't it be a base dps increase while using your bare minimum? Or should it only be a dps increase for dot ticks? If it's a "DPS stance" then it should have a dps increase across the board.

Heavy Shot is 60 pps and Auto Attacks are about 33 on their own. Over the course of those 3 seconds you can get a GCD and an auto attack, so your pps with auto attacks should be around 250/3 = 83.3. If you increase Heavy Shot by 30% and kill off Auto Attacks in that same 3 second timespan you barely have a pps increase. My shitty math is telling me you'd need a 70% buff to Heavy Shot potency to eclipse the 83 pps of Auto Attack + Heavy Shot in a 3 second period.

I suppose it would be possible to base the increase on the highest amount of damage possible to be done by bard, which would be their dots, and then let the rest fall along the curve. However, that could lead to a dps loss every time you throw a Heavy Shot while under Wanderer's Minuet while not being able to attack and move at the same time.

It's possible I've overlooked something in these calculations or didn't take something else into account, but yeah. I still don't feel this is an insignificant problem in damage relating to our favorite bardo class. Bard is weird to calculate because there's no combo potency to play with, it's all single use attacks, so it's possible the methodology i used to run numbers is wildly incorrect.

Edit:// Even when using the basic bard "rotation" of dots + heavy shot + auto attacks I still personally feel 30% is not enough. You'd still need at least 50% for it to totally wipe out auto attacks. I put together a chart, because I have no life, to put together my thought process and other boring things like that. http://i.imgur.com/ZuAUirN.png Even with 50% increase you're looking at a pps increase of around 7%, which I don't really know if it's substantial or not? Again, maybe I'm doing things completely wrong, but cutting out auto attacks still seems like it requires quite a bit of boost to make up for.
 

IvorB

Member
You know your WoD run is fantastic when literally everybody else are outDPSed by the Limit Break.

WoD has been tough to me these days. I haven't even seen the Bard top yet after countless runs and it's soooo long. I'm even considering skipping out before Cloud of Darkness fight now...
 

scy

Member
100 potency over 3 seconds differs how exact from 150 potency over 2.5 seconds?

I was just noting that it's not 100 potency per auto attack but 100 potency averaged over time. For instance, the Dreadwyrm Bow gives you a ~107 potency attack every 3.2 seconds. The original post I quoted was pretty much just saying 1 auto per Heavy Shot which is not the right way to look at it since you have two separate timers you're equating to add together.

Heavy Shot is your basic attack that has the highest potency per shot that isn't Misery's End. It's not an end-all-be-all of the scenario, but shouldn't it be a base dps increase while using your bare minimum? Or should it only be a dps increase for dot ticks? If it's a "DPS stance" then it should have a dps increase across the board.

Because I don't quite understand why you're thinking the only potency you have going out is Heavy Shot? You're trying to calculate an increase based off 1 GCD which isn't really how your DPS works. Your actual pps is Heavy Shot, DoT ticks, oGCDs, etc. You need whatever increase is going on here to be better than auto-attacks. There's room to argue if it's better to Minuet -> drop DoTs -> drop Minuet, sure, but that doesn't seem to be the argument here.

You will not be measuring the DPS gain by seeing if any single buffed GCD beats an unbuffed GCD+auto attack. Things change a bit if oGCDs don't get the damage buff. Video shows an oGCD used without a charged time. That still means your calculations aren't simply "is Heavy Shot buffed better than unbuffed Heavy Shot + auto."

A 60% potency buff also brings your dots from 310/330 to 496/528 potency total, which is pretty ridiculous but not as much potency as factoring in auto attacks over the course of those ticks. 18 seconds = 6 auto attacks which drives the potency to 930 for Windbite. However, I don't think that's totally accurate math to look at.

Not sure why factoring DoTs makes this inaccurate math to look at.

Also, 18 seconds = 5 auto attacks with both the Zeta and Dreadwyrm Bow. 6 is 18.24, and 19.2 respectively. Semantics I guess but worth noting since the Dreadwyrm case means an 8th GCD with a low-ish amount of Skill Speed (GCD == 2.4s).

Edit: Well, 6 and change if t = 0 is when the first auto lands, which I guess is a fair approach to this.

Edit2: As for the rest, ~30% was the number I came to just from all skills getting the buff. Or, basically, Bloodletter being involved. If it's just the main Bard GCDs of DoTs, Heavy Shot, and Straight(er) Shot, then yeah, ~60% is closer to the number you'd need for it to be a notable gain in most cases. Like, 45-50% is the range of near 100% uptime turreting to be ahead if it doesn't work on Bloodletter / Sidewinder / Mercy's End / any other oGCD.
 

Valor

Member
Because I don't quite understand why you're thinking the only potency you have going out is Heavy Shot? You're trying to calculate an increase based off 1 GCD which isn't really how your DPS works. Your actual pps is Heavy Shot, DoT ticks, oGCDs, etc. You need whatever increase is going on here to be better than auto-attacks. There's room to argue if it's better to Minuet -> drop DoTs -> drop Minuet, sure, but that doesn't seem to be the argument here.
Yeah, which is what I added in below the edit. Even with base level pps going out counting dot ticks + auto attacks + regular gcds, you need a ton of potency to make up for missed auto attacks.

You will not be measuring the DPS gain by seeing if any single buffed GCD beats an unbuffed GCD+auto attack. Things change a bit if oGCDs don't get the damage buff. Video shows an oGCD used without a charged time. That still means your calculations aren't simply "is Heavy Shot buffed better than unbuffed Heavy Shot + auto."
But if oGCD aren't buffed then why should they factor in since their damage is going to be exactly the same? The main changes are your GCDs being charged up while auto attacks are cut. That means to me that the base issue is buffed GCDs versus regular GCDs + auto attacks.



Not sure why factoring DoTs makes this inaccurate math to look at.
I should have said that drawing that conclusion of dot potency over time + auto attacks is a misleading set of numbers. It's not inaccurate, but it doesn't really tell the right story, I think.

Also, 18 seconds = 5 auto attacks with both the Zeta and Dreadwyrm Bow. 6 is 18.24, and 19.2 respectively. Semantics I guess but worth noting since the Dreadwyrm case means an 8th GCD with a low-ish amount of Skill Speed (GCD == 2.4s).

Edit: Well, 6 and change if t = 0 is when the first auto lands, which I guess is a fair approach to this.
Pretty much the edit. I mean there's a lot of floaty variables around and it's pretty hard to account for everything and get an overview of the base issues with Minuet as it stands. It becomes much more difficult to start putting in other variables that could change things. I omitted a lot of extraneous variables that -do- and -will- matter but either aren't easily quantified or if they really throw a wrench into things. I mean will we be using Minuet with a Dread bow? Will the Auto Attack timers still be consistent in 3.0? Will they be reworked? It's hard to know, so I just assume everything at flat out base level. If it works for a base level, you can extrapolate it to be "working as intended" as variables are added in and optimization sets in.

Plus, if we're looking for other problems with things going forward, we have no idea what actual change skill speed will have on dots and dot potency, so it's hard to account for that as well. It's also hard to account for new abilities like Sidewinder and whatever because there's not enough data out there to figure out what's what. Maybe there will be soon, but yeah. This isn't meant to be a "this is the solution" it's more of me trying to wrap my dumb little brain around how the hell Minuet is going to actually increase my dps while killing auto attacks. It's all conjecture and I will always readily admit I am not the most analytical or mathematically gifted person in the room at any one time.
 

scy

Member
this is the problem with editsssssssss

But if oGCD aren't buffed then why should they factor in since their damage is going to be exactly the same? The main changes are your GCDs being charged up while auto attacks are cut. That means to me that the base issue is buffed GCDs versus regular GCDs + auto attacks.

This is probably where we should have started: I worked with the assumption that Minuet was just an increase to all skills used, GCD and oGCD. Just GCDs are now "charged" before use. That's where my original 30% value came from. Removing oGCDs changes it closer to where you're saying, though I'd honestly expect it to be really a really high buff in that case~

I'm pretty sure it'll work out to being better, I'm just worried it ends up being this weird case of "not better enough" that you actually do constantly toggle the song.

It's all conjecture and I will always readily admit I am not the most analytical or mathematically gifted person in the room at any one time.

I think most the methodology on it seemed right once the whole "what are we measuring" got taken care of?
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
All this talk about dots and you're forgetting the fact they're going to be buffed probably.

Your argument has already been






fractured.
 

Valor

Member
this is the problem with editsssssssss
;---; I know. I had another one on the way that 504 ate up so I let it die. Pouring one out for the edits we lost along the way.

This is probably where we should have started: I worked with the assumption that Minuet was just an increase to all skills used, GCD and oGCD. Just GCDs are now "charged" before use. That's where my original 30% value came from. Removing oGCDs changes it closer to where you're saying, though I'd honestly expect it to be really a really high buff in that case~

I'm pretty sure it'll work out to being better, I'm just worried it ends up being this weird case of "not better enough" that you actually do constantly toggle the song.
Precisely. That's why I've been throwing around really high numbers for buffs, because you'd need to make up an awful lot of ground. I didn't even think about it with oGCDs buffed too, but yeah... just looking at a 225 oGCD Bloodletter tells me that things get silly real fast
and I love it
.
 
Coming back to the game due to expansion hype. I currently have the pc version and no game time at the moment. If I buy the ps4 ver (want both options to play) will the 30 days that comes with the ps4 ver be able to activate on my current account that I made on pc?
 

Isaccard

Member
Coming back to the game due to expansion hype. I currently have the pc version and no game time at the moment. If I buy the ps4 ver (want both options to play) will the 30 days that comes with the ps4 ver be able to activate on my current account that I made on pc?

I believe so yes since it's the same account
 
Coming back to the game due to expansion hype. I currently have the pc version and no game time at the moment. If I buy the ps4 ver (want both options to play) will the 30 days that comes with the ps4 ver be able to activate on my current account that I made on pc?

I think game time is shared. It's just that you need 2 copies/licenses if you want to play on PC AND PS4.
 

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Coming back to the game due to expansion hype. I currently have the pc version and no game time at the moment. If I buy the ps4 ver (want both options to play) will the 30 days that comes with the ps4 ver be able to activate on my current account that I made on pc?
Yup.
 

Kenai

Member
Can't you just sacrifice it for the buff then swiftcast it back? No idea if that's feasible or not...

That's possible but I feel like the ability is supposed to be a "FU--SION-HA" thing and that would mean keeping the pet dismissed. It's extremely rare in any MMO that does this to let you resummon the pet while keeping a continuous buff from sacrificing said pet. Although I wouldn't totally wave away the possibility, it also means as a SCH that this could effectively be Swiftcast tax which i don't really like the idea of either.

In either case, I assume that a lot of SCHs have some of the same questions i do so maybe they will clarify some of this BEFORE we see the specific patch notes during maintenance.
 

plake

Member
All this talk about dots and you're forgetting the fact they're going to be buffed probably.

Your argument has already been






fractured.

I have to admit, I lol'd so hard.


Ok lol'd again.

is this expansion spoilers

No, this is current. If you have managed to avoid seeing Galen in-game I'm happy for ya.
 
The Ninja updates from the Live Letter were kind of disappointing, but the new ability animations did look really good!

The official translation is making the enmity ability sound like something you apply to the tank to help them stabilize hate while you blow shit up at the start of a fight. Worthless.

Not having to cast huton every 60 seconds is going to be convenient and a nice DPS increase, but I don't think it's going to help with ninjutsu variety much unless we get some interesting new ninjutsu from 50-60 or they somehow enhance the existing ninjutsu.

Adding positional requirements are whatever. I guess all the other melee DPS classes have them so let's tack them on here too. Maybe if Ninja DPS goes through the roof again this will keep people from complaining about it as much.

My Ninja wishlist:
Allow Ninjas to cast Goad on themselves and let them be able to see the TP of their party members.

Make Mudras instant cast. Mudra execution already has a cooldown and latency makes it unbearable at times. The 0.5 cast time makes no sense. At the very least, fix ability queuing so I can properly queue up 3-4 button presses.

Mug should be more effective. It barely drains any HP and the ability doesn't really live up to the concept. They should give all enemies and bosses a unique item that can be stolen and then used for damage, healing, buffs, or some other effect ... with an increased cool down of course. That would be awesome

Make the venoms/stances more interesting. All we have is a silence/stun toggle with a built-in damage trait that can be a nuisance to keep track of, especially in level sync content like FATEs. The abilities need to be more 'Ninja' like and differentiated. Add poison, slow, or some other effects to certain abilities depending on the venom applied or adjust certain values based on risk/reward.

Make our useless traits like hide and reduced fall damage more interesting or give us better traits.

Add range to Shukuchi and I don't know... never been a huge fan of ground target abilities because they feel really clunky.

Make evasion a 'thing'. Perfect Dodge is nice and all but there is no way to increase evasion other than Featherfoot (which Ninjas get a gimped version of). Ninjas should be a high evasion class and able to dodge things like auto attacks and other random abilities on occasion as a benefit of the class. While I'm at it, they should add a 'shadow clone' animation every time an attack misses a Ninja. That would be bad ass.

not impressed with the ninja update.

I mean being able to extend huton is nice and it allows you to do other ninjitsus instead. but is that really that big of a boost?

Within the constraints of the current level cap and in a raid based fight lasting at least 10 minutes, it's probably about a 10-20 DPS increase depending on how much it can be extended and how often. Assuming we can extend huton indefinitely with different attacks and combos once applied the first time, well that would be a much larger increase.

That said, they specifically mention doing this to solve the issue of ninjutsu usage variety and not to increase DPS but I don't see how it solves that problem in the current environment.
 
WoD has been tough to me these days. I haven't even seen the Bard top yet after countless runs and it's soooo long. I'm even considering skipping out before Cloud of Darkness fight now...

I feel your pain.

Monk pants don't exist. If it weren't for the fact that I need the poetics and CoD is usually painless, I'd do the same.

I can't believe how bad the RNG has been to me. I didn't expect to get the full set in a week, but my Ninja now has four pieces of the set just from greeding on stuff, and my Summoner has two. It's getting insane.
 

Nohar

Member
The new dungeons look wonderful, especially the Cathedral (those Anor Londo vibes). They ripped a page from Dark Souls' book, the similarities in colors and lighting are striking (link to the Dungeon Walkthrough).
 

Croyles

Member
The new dungeons look wonderful, especially the Cathedral (those Anor Londo vibes). They ripped a page from Dark Souls' book, the similarities in colors and lighting are striking (link to the Dungeon Walkthrough).

It's just gothic architecture as far as i'm aware. See that shit over here every 10 steps. Dark Souls didn't invent it. :p
 
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