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[Sorian]

So, based on prelim notes, the smart call would be to go do your level 50 class quest and then move on into Ishgard?

Well, I guess I can't argue with your logic here.

It would basically mean, I'd have to level DRK, that mount is sexy.

 

[scy]

Probably not singing.

Honestly, there's very few situations I can think of where they need to sing Paeon for someone before they need it themselves and there's other problems if Ballad is being done.

Besides that, it's pretty much optimal runs + DRG + NIN.

 

[Tomat]

Honestly, there's very few situations I can think of where they need to sing Paeon for someone before they need it themselves and there's other problems if Ballad is being done.

Besides that, it's pretty much optimal runs + DRG + NIN.

That's the thing. Nobody should go in expecting those kind of numbers.

 

[Kagari]

obligatory "OH MY" to Summoner stuff

since Kagari has zero Bard details, I'm assuming she's now a paid shill for Bard Corp. A tragedy, really.

Lol

I'm going to play more today but I saw they changed barrage to increase non-crit attacks by 3, they changed Paeon icon and the other new song puts a shield on someone.

 

[iammeiam]

Get the f.. Outta here

One of those things I find constantly depressing. Bard pulling ~540 without a DRG in T10, singing and being dead the last few seconds of the fight. Swapping the MNK for a DRG should make 575 not really a problem there?

It's not straight up 600 but looking at that number and how that run went 600 doesn't seem impossible.

Well, for other people.

 

[Rose of Eternity]

You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Classic Final Fantasy parties have typically been either 3-man (for the later entries), or 4-man (for the older ones). Final Fantasy XIV is still a Final Fantasy game, and takes design nods from the series history like this. That tradition of 4-man parties is probably the reason why a Light Party is 4 people in 14.

I don't think I'm looking at it from a wrong angle at all. Been playing mmos for two decades, one of which was FF11 for a very long time. FF11 is MUCH more of an ode to old FFs than I feel this game is. This game clearly took elements from 11 and WoW and then built upon that to make a more modern mmo. I don't think the 4 man thing has anything to do with "this is how the single player games were!"

The weird thing is this. It tried to bring an iteration of a support class from 11, and then tried to make it more "engaged" to play and not as support as it was. Which is cool. But then it chose the lower end of the party/raid size spectrum. Does the support that a bard in 14 brings make up for their damage loss in a party of tank/healer/support/dps over a party of tank/healer/dps/dps? A lot of people will say it doesn't matter, clearly it's tuned that even a half dps/support in the slot can finish the dungeon. But then you get to raids.
With another support class coming in, it basically has to be totally equal with bard or bard loses its spot not only in 4 mans, but especially in 8 mans where you can only afford to bring one "support."

Like someone else said, hopefully it's just going to be nice for people to have options and either one will do well. If 24 mans were the main content then it's not a big deal because you have space to represent each class. With 8 mans is where the issue is. A game like WoW doesn't run into this issue because there is no "support" class.

 

[Liferebooted]

The game isn't down already is it? I'm trying to log onto the pc version and when I hit start it says to restart the game for a version update but there is no update when I do.

 

[scy]

That's the thing. Nobody should go in expecting those kind of numbers.

"Non-optimal" would still mean the middle 500s. The "optimal" part is just referring to mechanic targeting, really. Some of the 570+ T10s I think are getting to lucky crit streaks but not a huge deal.

Realistically, this is still ballparking ~550+ T10, 520-530+ T11/T12, 500+ T13 as the non-echo numbers.

Lol

I'm going to play more today but I saw they changed barrage to increase non-crit attacks by 3, they changed Paeon icon and the other new song puts a shield on someone.

But what about Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaw?!

Does the support that a bard in 14 brings make up for their damage loss in a party of tank/healer/support/dps over a party of tank/healer/dps/dps? A lot of people will say it doesn't matter, clearly it's tuned that even a half dps/support in the slot can finish the dungeon. But then you get to raids.

BRD is a DPS that has Support stuff, not a Support that can DPS. The support it does bring is in the sense of resource management which is pretty much just a raid level utility due to fight length. At their damage ceiling, they're basically potentially a caster level DPS in Raids.

Put another way, the damage difference at their ceiling is basically nothing compared to the general discrepancy of melee vs ranged.

 

[Valor]

Lol

I'm going to play more today but I saw they changed barrage to increase non-crit attacks by 3, they changed Paeon icon and the other new song puts a shield on someone.

O___o A shield, eh? Interesting. It's a shame you can't triple up a Straighter Shot. Well played, Yoship. Well played.


But yeah about the flirting with 600 thing, it is doable. It's just a small group of bards that can do it and usually having at the very least a DRG begins to put it in the realm of possibility. That being said, it shouldn't be too uncommon to see Bards being able to hit around 550ish in a run where the melee hit 600. Singing will play a toll on the overall dps, but yeah. Imagine if Bards had weapon damage equal to DRG/MNK/NIN/anything else in the game. They would be right there with no issues, i think.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Square Enix told me via twitter that collector's editions should be with us by early access day.

Mine still says it's in the warehouse, but they told me they use overnight couriers "where available" so hopefully it will actually be here on Friday.

Fingers crossed.

 

[iammeiam]

With another support class coming in, it basically has to be totally equal with bard or bard loses its spot not only in 4 mans, but especially in 8 mans where you can only afford to bring one "support."

It's worth noting you absolutely can do 8 mans with double bard, it's just a tougher DPS check. People were doing T13 with two bards in mid-November, so the lowered DPS isn't exactly the kiss of death people are treating it as (and, yeah, we're not all DNT, my point is more that double bard isn't completely unworkable.) It's not optimal, but for the most part we're not dealing with world-first progression pushes here, so running bard/machinist in 3.0 is probably totally feasible provided you're willing to effort.

 

[Valor]

... Does the support that a bard in 14 brings make up for their damage loss in a party of tank/healer/support/dps over a party of tank/healer/dps/dps? A lot of people will say it doesn't matter, clearly it's tuned that even a half dps/support in the slot can finish the dungeon. But then you get to raids.
With another support class coming in, it basically has to be totally equal with bard or bard loses its spot not only in 4 mans, but especially in 8 mans where you can only afford to bring one "support."

The support a bard bring is definitely worth any sort of dps "loss" you would accrue because the amount lost is so minimal in the long run it won't matter. 4 man content is not meant to be taxing on the player by any stretch of the imagination, so min/maxing there is not even an issue to be discussed whatsoever.

Raids are where the meat of the problem lies, and it's pretty much what I've bolded. Then again, I guess I am mostly concerned because Bard has been my main since 2.0 and I don't like the idea of not being able to play a class I like or that the class I like is suddenly totally not useful at all in a raid format. I think a lot of these fears are unfounded, but still interesting discussion topics while we wait for friday. I do feel, however, that the four raid dps will be two melee, one ranged support, and one caster.

Maybe the true optimal set up for raids should be 1 tank, 2 healers, and 5 dps.

 

[Sorian]

It's worth noting you absolutely can do 8 mans with double bard, it's just a tougher DPS check. People were doing T13 with two bards in mid-November, so the lowered DPS isn't exactly the kiss of death people are treating it as (and, yeah, we're not all DNT, my point is more that double bard isn't completely unworkable.) It's not optimal, but for the most part we're not dealing with world-first progression pushes here, so running bard/machinist in 3.0 is probably totally feasible provided you're willing to effort.

Keep fighting the good fight but you only bring two bards if you want to prove a point or if you have no other option. People were doing final coil in min-maxed ilvl 110 gear the week after it came out too to prove a point but regular groups of people have no reason to gimp themselves.

 

[Rose of Eternity]

BRD is a DPS that has Support stuff, not a Support that can DPS. The support it does bring is in the sense of resource management which is pretty much just a raid level utility due to fight length. At their damage ceiling, they're basically potentially a caster level DPS in Raids.

Put another way, the damage difference at their ceiling is basically nothing compared to the general discrepancy of melee vs ranged.

Is bard on equal footing in dps if it does no support and focuses only on dps? Or is their support a factor in their own dps as well?

 

[jorgeton]

So can we bring our companions into dungeons? Would love to level up my choco in Sastasha or some other early dungeon.

 

[Pachimari]

If you don't know what you want to play yet you can jump around, but all of the job guilds are spread among the 3 cities. Do you know what you want to be in terms of dps/tank/heals? You can play around with just the ones in the role you want.

Ideally I think you should choose one and stick with it until 50. You get an exp bonus for the rest of your classes once you hit 50. You can pick up a few and find one that you like early on. You can get other classes once you hit 10 on your first class and you can travel to the other city states once you complete a level 15 main story quest.

Even with the lowered weapon damage you can see the top bards almost flirting with 600. Adding dps skills to their sets should just help make that dps grow, in theory, but messing with auto attacks/barrage is... I dunno. It'll be interesting to see how Bard fits into the end game.

I definitely agree with this. I think the issue is that if the dps of Bard lags too far behind then you're going to see it get outmoded by other classes in the meta. Other classes are getting dps boosts and Bard needed something to keep up with the others or I think it was in real danger of being left behind.

Find what you like and stick to it. I wouldn't level things evenly because you get an exp bonus to all of the other jobs once you get one up to level 50.

Alright. Currently I am a lvl. 3 archer. I was also a lvl. 15 archer months ago with another character, but I'll stick to archer until lvl. 10, and then I'll see what the other classes brings. But I think I'm pretty sure I want to level my archer class to 50.

I have also never understood when somebody discusses dps, tank and such.
At what level can I add friends? I tried adding the three people I have been talking to in PM's, and the search can't find them.

 

[Valor]

Keep fighting the good fight but you only bring two bards if you want to prove a point or if you have no other option. People were doing final coil in min-maxed ilvl 110 gear the week after it came out too to prove a point but regular groups of people have no reason to gimp themselves.

You do realize that regular groups of people are the ones who are likely to double up on a class like bard, right?

 

[iammeiam]

Keep fighting the good fight but you only bring two bards if you want to prove a point or if you have no other option. People were doing final coil in min-maxed ilvl 110 gear the week after it came out too to prove a point but regular groups of people have no reason to gimp themselves.

I... said it wasn't optimal? Just that it's workable. Which it is? The DPS gap is real, but it's not so oppressive as to be impossible to deal with. Assuming you raid with people over group comp, and aren't going for world first progression (and nobody in this thread is that I'm aware of), having double support isn't a deal breaker.

I'm not trying to argue bard is superior DPS, just that the insistence there's no room for two support in 8 man content is overstating the gap. There needs to be distinction between what is actually unworkable and what amounts to just being tougher.

 

[scy]

Is bard on equal footing in dps if it does no support and focuses only on dps? Or is their support a factor in their own dps as well?

Their support is just resource regeneration. They'll need to run their TP Regen for themselves basically whenever melee need it too. Their DPS ceiling does mean using Paeon basically as little as possible, however, but ... it's a resource management thing so that's kind of a given?

 

[Chille]

Square Enix told me via twitter that collector's editions should be with us by early access day.

Mine still says it's in the warehouse, but they told me they use overnight couriers "where available" so hopefully it will actually be here on Friday.

Fingers crossed.

Mine still just says preorder confirmed lol

 

[Sorian]

You do realize that regular groups of people are the ones who are likely to double up on a class like bard, right?

Why do you say that? I feel like the people most likely to bring double bard are those who have no other choice (they couldn't find another DPS or they are catering to a bad healer).

Anyway, the only point I'm making is yes, there is room to do unoptimal things but it's hardly ever worth the headache.

Edit: Second half of this post was more to Angary than Gorgolon, I just quoted wrong.

 

[Aeriscloud]

Bards will do as we have always done, adjust. Right Patch 2.1?

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Mine still just says preorder confirmed lol

Are you in the UK or something?

They said they're shipped on different days for different regions so maybe if you're in the UK or wherever their warehouse is they'll ship it tomorrow, but they might be shipping mine today because it'll take the extra day to arrive?

 

[scy]

Anyway, the only point I'm making is yes, there is room to do unoptimal things but it's hardly ever worth the headache.

To be fair, there's a bigger gap in people being bad at their class than doing things like 2x Bard or 2x whatever.

plus overgearing makes it all irrelevant for most people anyway

 

[gryvan]

So Civ 5 get together for Thursday

I currently have:
me
Drama
Jayhawk
(maybe scy)


there can be more people ./go

 

[Sorian]

To be fair, there's a bigger gap in people being bad at their class than doing things like 2x Bard or 2x whatever.

plus overgearing makes it all irrelevant for most people anyway

Most people still get their face smashed in even with echo going on.

Spoiler

secret bard hate

Spoiler

not so secret

 

[Stuart444]

Are you in the UK or something?

They said they're shipped on different days for different regions so maybe if you're in the UK or wherever their warehouse is they'll ship it tomorrow, but they might be shipping mine today because it'll take the extra day to arrive?

Mine also says pre-order confirmed but I'm not worried. They usually ship via DPD here and arrive the next day almost always.

I'll only worry if it gets to Friday and there is no tracking number.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Mine also says pre-order confirmed but I'm not worried. They usually ship via DPD here and arrive the next day almost always.

I'll only worry if it gets to Friday and there is no tracking number.

they give tracking numbers?!?!?!

oh no, this is not good.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

Do we know the download size for Friday already?

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Why do you say that? I feel like the people most likely to bring double bard are those who have no other choice (they couldn't find another DPS or they are catering to a bad healer).

Because regular groups of people (casual statics/groups of friends) aren't going to want to bring many more people into the fold if they are running a sub optimal group. The only thing they care about is being able to play together and having fun doing so, which could mean that if multiple people are having fun playing the same thing, then they aren't going to be forced into sitting or changing their class if running 2 of the same thing is sub optimal.

 

[Stuart444]

they give tracking numbers?!?!?!

oh no, this is not good.

Usually yeah but once, I didn't have it show up on the store (the tracking number) order page until the morning of the day it arrived.

 

[Nohar]

Relax people. We don't know yet how the Bard (and Machinist) will fare with the extension. It is a bit early to worry. I main BRD, but I think I'm gonna give the Summoner a try for a change. Really, the important thing is to have fun with the game, and if one job begins to lag behind the others I'm sure Yoshida's team will improve it. They did improve Dragoon's Magic defense and the job's jumps, for instance, and it seems the Bard will have a higher DPS than before (though that remains to be confirmed).

Explore Heavensward, beat the new dungeons, unlock your flying mount, level up the new jobs, make a shiton of gils with new mats and crafts. Have fun people.

 

[suzu]

So can we bring our companions into dungeons? Would love to level up my choco in Sastasha or some other early dungeon.

Nope. :/

Alright. Currently I am a lvl. 3 archer. I was also a lvl. 15 archer months ago with another character, but I'll stick to archer until lvl. 10, and then I'll see what the other classes brings. But I think I'm pretty sure I want to level my archer class to 50.

I have also never understood when somebody discusses dps, tank and such.
At what level can I add friends? I tried adding the three people I have been talking to in PM's, and the search can't find them.

This beginner's guide is old, but it's still pretty relevant.

They have to be online for you to search or send a friend request.

 

[Pachimari]

Man, I'm asking too many questions today. But thanks for all of your help today guys. It have helped smooth me into the systems and the game again, and I am reminded, how much I love A Realm Reborn and Eorzea.

 

[lazybones18]

Heh, I'm gonna try to complete all turns for the Final Coil for the first time tonight before maintenance

 

[Nohar]

Heh, I'm gonna try to complete all turns for the Final Coil for the first time tonight before maintenance

Good luck. Couldn't do the T13 here: my ilvl was too low (120).

 

[Sorian]

To move onto a happier topic, I'm happy to see that it will be a challenge to unlock flying in each zone. Makes me happy, it means that people won't be missing out on any fun on the ground.

 

[lazybones18]

Good luck. Couldn't do the T13 here: my ilvl was too low (120).

won't have to worry about ilvl. At the max. Just have to worry about how many of the FC will be around to help me

 

[Valor]

Why do you say that? I feel like the people most likely to bring double bard are those who have no other choice (they couldn't find another DPS or they are catering to a bad healer).

I think it's more than people who care about clearing will try to bring a more balanced dps set up where people who are running it more casually will be bringing whatever they can get or bringing people over min/max.

I mean my group technically has two bards, and we could have gone through 13 with both, but it might have taken a bit longer than if we brought a second melee.

But yeah, not saying either thing is better/worse. Just different. Maybe I have a skewed perception of casual-types. it's hard to see them from this high up.

Bards will do as we have always done, adjust. Right Patch 2.1?

RIP Bard
2.0 - 2.1

 

[Sorian]

Maybe I have a skewed perception of casual-types. it's hard to see them from this high up.

It's hard being at the top.

 

[jorgeton]

Nope. :/

Welp. 1-manning dungeons should be fun though.

 

[Wilsongt]

I think it's more than people who care about clearing will try to bring a more balanced dps set up where people who are running it more casually will be bringing whatever they can get or bringing people over min/max.

I mean my group technically has two bards, and we could have gone through 13 with both, but it might have taken a bit longer than if we brought a second melee.

But yeah, not saying either thing is better/worse. Just different. Maybe I have a skewed perception of casual-types. it's hard to see them from this high up.


RIP Bard
2.0 - 2.1

Try not to catch a nose bleed.
Don't want to stain that ivory tower.

 

[cultureculture]

Man, I'm asking too many questions today. But thanks for all of your help today guys. It have helped smooth me into the systems and the game again, and I am reminded, how much I love A Realm Reborn and Eorzea.

{Welcome back.}

 

[Ruruja]

Welp. 1-manning dungeons should be fun though.

Isn't the minimum 2?

 

[Valor]

It's hard being at the top.

It sure is.

Try not to catch a nose bleed.
Don't want to stain that ivory tower.

Bleeding is for those who cannot afford a white mage on retainer.

 

[Sorian]

Isn't the minimum 2?

No, all old 4 mans are now open to just be walked into solo for maximum bragging rights and hilarity. ilvl sync is obviously turned off.

 

[Ruruja]

No, all old 4 mans are now open to just be walked into solo for maximum bragging rights and hilarity. ilvl sync is obviously turned off.

It used to be two:

"Players will be able to undertake duties with smaller pre-made parties using a new option in the Duty Finder. For example, you’ll be able to enter a dungeon with just two players."

They must have changed it.

 

[Sorian]

It used to be two:

"Players will be able to undertake duties with smaller pre-made parties using a new option in the Duty Finder. For example, you’ll be able to enter a dungeon with just two players."

They must have changed it.

I believe that quote is referring to non-realm reborn dungeons. I'm definitely talking from old information, I can't pull up the prelim patch notes at the moment and I didn't pay much attention to that section when I was reading them last night because it's a useless change to me.

 

[irfaanator]

First pass through patch notes:

Will make it better tomorrow or when more notes are out. There are a few errors in the patch notes that the chart reflects, I guess.

General stuff I snagged from patch notes overall (bias towards crafting/gathering stuff):

- Beast tribe daily allowances increased from 6 to 12
- New guildleve "Temple Leves", spend 10 allowances for greater risk and reward
- Three new types of timeworn maps
- Players can now exchange company credits for items by speaking with the OIC Quartermasters at each Grand Company Headquarters, and the resident caretaker in any housing district
- Triple Triad board furnishing in house
- Can purchase 3 Mini Cactpot tickets per day (progressively more expensive)
- New aesthetician hairstyles added
- Players can now cast Teleport and Return while riding a mount
- You can store your odd event items into the Armoire
- Crafting specialist system: Absolutely only 3 (governed by Soul Crystals, obtainable at level 55)
- The level cap for desynthesis has been increased: individual class 110 to 180, maximum 350 to 560.

Player attributes have been adjusted as follows:
- Skilspeed and spellspeed now affect damage over time and healing over time effects.
- The effect of determination on auto-attacks has been reduced.
- Critical hit rate now affects damage dealt with a critical strike.
- Certain attributes no longer affect parry or block.

Rowena's House of Splendors seeks capable tradesmen to procure the collectables sought by her wealthy clientele. Players can craft or gather collectable items to be exchanged for experience points, scrips, and gil. Scrips are rewarded based on the collectability of the item exchanged. However, items considered to be collectable can only be obtained through crafting or gathering.
- Crafting Collectables: Use Collectable Synthesis command, decide at end of craft to make item collectable or not
- Gathering Collectables: Use Collector's Glove command; afterwards can use general action Aetherial Reduction to possibly receive items of even greater rarity

Company workshops
- Buy company workshop at entrance to private chambers
- Confirm materials for project by opening company crafting log via fabrication station
- Use Schematic Board to draft new projects: gather require items, select plan you wish to create
- Can craft and register airships using requisite components and flight credits
- Can deploy airships on Exploratory Voyages
-- Airships need higher ranks before they can equip better components
-- Airships will require repair to its parts
-- To deploy, use Ceruleum Tanks (purchase from resident caretaker in housing district)

Tomes of regional folklore
- Exchange blue gatherer's scrips for one of nine types of tomes of regional folklore
-- Tome of Geological Folklore - Coerthas
-- Tome of Geological Folklore - Dravania
-- Tome of Geological Folklore - Abalathia's Spine
-- Tome of Botanical Folklore - Coerthas
-- Tome of Botanical Folklore - Dravania
-- Tome of Botanical Folklore - Abalathia's Spine
-- Tome of Ichthyological Folklore - Coerthas
-- Tome of Ichthyological Folklore - Dravania
-- Tome of Ichthyological Folklore - Abalathia's Spine
- Botanist and Miner: basically unspoiled nodes
- Fisher: hidden fishing holes revealed, rare fish made available

thanks based drama for making that spreadsheet before I was gonna ask if you were gonna make that spreadsheet

 

[Eldren]

Still no word on queueing with a chocobo out...hopefully that'll be in the full in-depth patch notes along with details on all the new skills and abilities.

That aside, very exciting stuff. 2 days until EU PSN pre-orders open and the wait is excruciating. I'm still torn on what I want to do first, immediately take BLM to 60 via the main story, or get Machinist to 50 and then start the story from there. A pleasant dilemma to have I suppose.

Also yes thank you drama for the spreadsheet, it'll be helpful as ever.