Rose of Eternity
Banned
But.. they shouldn't..? They should be support. Support is good.
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War
- Thread starter suzu
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But.. they shouldn't..? They should be support. Support is good.
Given that everything Bard's getting is DPSDPSDPSDPSDPS (barring maybe Warden's Paean but somehow we still have no information on it--seriously google "Warden's Paean" and you get the patch notes and me posting in this thread and that is it) and the "new concept of bard" requires a heavy sacrifice of mobility for higher DPS, it seems like bard should be getting a substantial baseline bump/be better able to compete or this is a lot of extra BS to stay roughly where we were before.
Machinist's support abilities are also kind of a question mark. They have MP and TP regen, but it's reportedly noticeably lower than bard. I guess their status effects are supposed to make up for it? The prevailing theory was at one point that Machinist would be DPS first, support second, and bard the opposite, but now who the hell knows.
Machinist's support abilities are also kind of a question mark. They have MP and TP regen, but it's reportedly noticeably lower than bard. I guess their status effects are supposed to make up for it? The prevailing theory was at one point that Machinist would be DPS first, support second, and bard the opposite, but now who the hell knows.
Pyros_Eien
Member
There's little chance that'll be the case, all the other items won't be until released. You'll have to wait to become a dragon girl, or buy another fantasia.
cultureculture
Member
Fuck me.
Liferebooted
Banned
Kinda weird how Amazon won't send codes out for this early yet I preordered cod black ops 3 and got a code for the beta within a hour
I got my code from Amazon for this immediately. I wonder what the deal is...
This game wasn't designed with a support class in mind so BRD and now machinist are just filling this weird halfway role where they are expected to come to 8 mans but they feel underwhelming anytime they show up in a 4 man. Also, you can bring multiple of the same classes to a raid but not bard or machinist, one and done.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Did they purposely choose 4 mans back then to reduce queue times?
I got mine from Amazon Germany like a week ago
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Ahahahaha.... HAHAHAHA! Oh my god... excuse the laughter I just have the smuggest grin on my face right now as a SMN
So Tri-Disaster doesn't use an AF stack?
OHBOYOHBOYOHBOY
cultureculture
Member
Elemental shards are used as a crafting resource.
Crafting.
What do you mean? Regular dungeons have always been tuned around 4 mans. I'm sure a lot of reasoning went into that decision but at the end of the day "dungeon content = 4 man" is almost an MMO standard.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Well I'd say the standard is WoW, and WoW is 5man. I'm not sure why they went with 4 tbh, it just makes very little sense since it's a fact there's always more DPS than tanks/heals, so the more you can cram into a group the better for queues and such. 5's a fine number too, 10's good for harder content and then for larger groups they could have done 25 or 20 or whatever.
Think it might be PS3 stuff tbh, they might have figured 8 was best to run properly in harder content and 10 was starting to drop too many frames or whatever, don't know. That or just they liked the idea of 4 characters since there's 4 archetypes(tank healer melee dps ranged dps).
Anyway it might change eventually I think. Maybe next expansion. I think the more classes they have, the better it'd be to increase group size so you're allowed a bit more free room to decide the classes you bring and stuff.
Oh thanks. Can I ask something else? I just used my minion whistles but I don't have the actual minions, is that correct?
cultureculture
Member
If you go to Mount Guide or Minion Guide, you should be able to use the minions or mounts you've unlocked with items. You can also add them to your hotbars.
dayum, with downloading and all it should be all set for Friday Afternoon
Fantastic stuff, can't wait for this weekend
This game would have been dead on arrival if the raid content was 25 or 20 man.
Honestly, I blame a lot of things on the PS3 but I don't think this is one of them.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Wait.. what? If anything 5 or 6 mans were standard. 4 instantly struck me as odd when I started this game. EQ was 6, FF11 was 6, LOTRO is 6, Age of Conan is 6.. WoW obviously made 5 pretty standard. I figured because of how low the player count was they had to do 4/8 man content in this game or it'd be dead.
edit: totally forgot about ps3 limitations.. again. that seems likely
It seems like I need to level up. I'm only lvl. 3.
I also wish I could sprint, but I don't know if that is something I have to unlock by leveling up?
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Sprint is a default skill, no? Isn't it automatically on your hotbar? If not, just look through your actions/abilities tabs and get everything like sprint or limit break on your bar.
cultureculture
Member
I don't know if there's a requirement on minions, but there is for mounts - I don't think you can use any mount until you get your chocobo licence, which requires level 20 and GC enlistment.
Those games are how old? As more MMOs have come out, player bases have been split so group composition has lowered to match that. Off the top of my head from newer MMOs, SWTOR and ESO are both 4. Wildstar tried to pretend that they would have an install base of an MMO from late 90s/early 00s and we can see how well that worked out for them.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Still, I wouldn't call 4 "standard". Not to mention Old Republic and Skyrim Online wouldn't really come up in any serious mmo conversation. If there's really no room for support in 14's design, then sure they should just make bard a pewpew hunter. Not sure what happens to machinist then. Corsair was sort of in a weird spot when it came out too. We'll see.
Really? Both are major players on the scene right now. I'd certainly mention them before I mention EQ or Age of Conan these days. As I said before 4 is almost the standard, that's the direction things have been heading for awhile.
Kind of.
Yes and no.
If Machinist is better in DPS and Support, Bard is useless. If Bard is better in DPS and Support, Machinist is useless. It's much different than comparing melee dps because bringing a pair of melee dps is generally considered a good idea because of how much damage they can deal. Machinist and Bard are going to be fighting over one spot in groups the same way SMN/BLM do now. I guess it's good that way, but something about it rubs me the wrong way.
They feel way too samey for my liking. It feels like one will naturally be considered superior to the other in an end game sense, like how SMN/BLM flip flop between coil instances about which is the better caster. Annoying stuff.
Go away ;-;I thought it was to balance out their mobility.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
I'd put Tera above both easily, which is 5 man. I don't mind 4, it just doesn't work well with support-type jobs like you mentioned. I guess I don't see the point of "bard" then, should just be archer.
They do "good enough" DPS and bring really useful support still for content where that's actually needed / wanted. The current expectation is that they're getting all sorts of DPS raises with the Heavensward stuff but it honestly seems a bit weird that they're stuck with the same ol' lowered Weapon Damage if the goal was raising their damage ceiling immensely.
Gross.
Nothing in any 4-man is demanding enough that bard DPS shortfall mattered at all ever and bard is a perfectly serviceable class in most speed runs (which is all 4 man content ends up being after a while at cap.) If we're talking a hypothetical 4 man dungeon with DPS checks stringent enough that having bard as a DPS vs a caster or melee matters, we're also talking a fundamentally different game at this point. And one that would have 4 mans you can't DF because srsly.
The eight mans are balanced around having some kind of support--machinist exists so that it doesn't *have* to be bard, and I don't think the idea of bard as primarily a battery and machinist as primarily a debuffer is bad.
I do think the expansion has focused on bard-as-DPS to an unfortunate degree (I'd like to have seen more focus on extending the support abilities), but I don't think the existence of bard was ever such a fundamental problem that it needs to be scrapped and rethought as yet another pewpewpew.
Nothing in any 4-man is demanding enough that bard DPS shortfall mattered at all ever and bard is a perfectly serviceable class in most speed runs (which is all 4 man content ends up being after a while at cap.) If we're talking a hypothetical 4 man dungeon with DPS checks stringent enough that having bard as a DPS vs a caster or melee matters, we're also talking a fundamentally different game at this point. And one that would have 4 mans you can't DF because srsly.
The eight mans are balanced around having some kind of support--machinist exists so that it doesn't *have* to be bard, and I don't think the idea of bard as primarily a battery and machinist as primarily a debuffer is bad.
I do think the expansion has focused on bard-as-DPS to an unfortunate degree (I'd like to have seen more focus on extending the support abilities), but I don't think the existence of bard was ever such a fundamental problem that it needs to be scrapped and rethought as yet another pewpewpew.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
If you don't know what you want to play yet you can jump around, but all of the job guilds are spread among the 3 cities. Do you know what you want to be in terms of dps/tank/heals? You can play around with just the ones in the role you want.
Ideally I think you should choose one and stick with it until 50. You get an exp bonus for the rest of your classes once you hit 50. You can pick up a few and find one that you like early on. You can get other classes once you hit 10 on your first class and you can travel to the other city states once you complete a level 15 main story quest.
Even with the lowered weapon damage you can see the top bards almost flirting with 600. Adding dps skills to their sets should just help make that dps grow, in theory, but messing with auto attacks/barrage is... I dunno. It'll be interesting to see how Bard fits into the end game.
I definitely agree with this. I think the issue is that if the dps of Bard lags too far behind then you're going to see it get outmoded by other classes in the meta. Other classes are getting dps boosts and Bard needed something to keep up with the others or I think it was in real danger of being left behind.
Find what you like and stick to it. I wouldn't level things evenly because you get an exp bonus to all of the other jobs once you get one up to level 50.
Oh I know there needed to be some DPS increase in expansion to keep things proportional, I just think the extent to which expansion has focused on DPS means that the gap needs to shrink or it's going to get real ugly really fast. Minuet means you can no longer expect bard to do mobility things because mobility things will be a DPS loss, but if a Minuet bard is still as relatively low to a melee/caster as in the current game, bard is still going to be expected to do mobility things as low-man which will end up hurting bard DPS even more.
(Well, maybe not--Maybe everyone will be rolling SMN and they'll just skip around doing mechanics and ***flaring things all the time.)
You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Classic Final Fantasy parties have typically been either 3-man (for the later entries), or 4-man (for the older ones). Final Fantasy XIV is still a Final Fantasy game, and takes design nods from the series history like this. That tradition of 4-man parties is probably the reason why a Light Party is 4 people in 14.
While I agree with the whole stick with one thing, the EXP bonus is for any class below your highest, not just when you get to 50.
What I meant was that it seems a lot easier to me to fix their damage by simply ... giving them the normal WD back. Seems weird for all of these DPS things and then just not doing the simplest fix of raising the baseline WD. Then again, I guess that possibly is "too good" with whatever they had in mind skills wise.
suddenly best class
But the other two tanking mounts looked ugly and low quality. That black cat looked good.
Damn, I wasn't 100% sure. The bonus increase is higher when you have a class at 50 though isn't it? I read this tutorial tip so long ago.
Probably not singing.Get the f.. Outta here
Well, I guess I can't argue with your logic here.
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