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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War
- Thread starter suzu
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If you're very late in a cast only a few moves really have a decent chance of saving you. This is because of latency and the way servers calculate damage. In my experience the move that is most likely to save you if you're late in a cast is Thrill of Battle, as it has a short animation time and isn't dependent on changing the calculated damage coming your way. This of course would be less of an issue if they applied buffs and such at the beginning of animations, rather than the end.
Either way using a CD this way is suboptimal. Even with Inner Beast you want to use a specific CD rotation in order to make life easier on your healers.
In other words, you memorize when an attack is coming, pause your attacks so as not to trip yourself up, pop the appropriate CD then Inner Beast. Now, this isn't dramatically different from PLD's, but they don't have to worry quite as much about pausing their attacks, since their defensive abilities are almost entirely off GCD. As a result of this, PLD's don't need to know the enemy rotation quite as well. They can just attack until they see the cast and then pop the appropriate CD in their rotation.
Either way we're splitting hairs. The classes indeed are VERY CLOSE. All I'm saying is that there are small considerations you need to make for WAR that don't necessarily carry over to PLD.
cultureculture
Member
I'm looking forward to DRG getting a Reverse Elusive Jump in Heavensward as one of their new job skills.
I feel like not knowing the boss rotation is like 90% of why I kept watching Rampart's icon go up just as I took a one-shot Crit Rip to the face.
This should pretty much be your goal; I can confirm dying in completely stupid ways as a highly effective method for summoning the dread spear.
This should pretty much be your goal; I can confirm dying in completely stupid ways as a highly effective method for summoning the dread spear.
Oh, so that's why Tengetsu's farming T13 so much...
....So, Trojita, remember how you insisted you'd get the Dreadwyrm Spear before me? <_<;;
Guess what my cooldown rotation as Warrior is for pretty much everything in Final Coil? Pop Vengeance. Pop Thrill of Battle and Convalescence. Pop Vengeance. You're trying to compare a situation where a Paladin hits one button to doing multiple things on the Warrior that are completely unnecessary. Seriously, take a step back and drop this whole Inner Beast angle and then think through what you're saying. "Popping Sentinel is easier than popping Vengeance" is what your argument basically says. IB for a big hit is nice but not a hard requirement; trying to make it one does not actually mean it is.
Also, lol @ I don't need to know rotations nearly as well. How do you think I squeeze in Sword Oath hits? Just randomly? What stretches of time Bulwark has the best chance of actually netting me Shield Swipes? Reasons for early Rampart vs during cast? Stoneskin casts? If you're going to make inane arguments about Inner Beast timings, I damn well better be able to allow for Sword Oath timing and Stoneskin around interrupts.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Should we have a separate thread for PLD vs WAR wars?
You mean this thread can have discussions about other things?
Popping Vengeance isn't any more difficult then popping Sentinel. However if you're late on IB and then try popping Vengeance to compensate you've probably screwed up. If you know you're going to be late on IB and pop Vengeance instead however, grats.
As for all these other things, most PLD's I've ran with don't Sword Oath dance, hardly Stoneskin, etc etc. Most just sit there, 123 123, and pop a CD when they see a cast. Then they sit there are criticize off-tanks, telling Warriors that this should be easy for them, when most are sitting there Defiance dancing, trying to make the most of their offensive CD's, trying to grab adds when healers are overhealing etc etc etc etc.
It's all extremely frustrating, and I kinda resent that there are so many PLD's that successfully half-butt their way through content while criticizing Warriors.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Who carried your corpse to the end?
irfaanator
Banned
why hasnt krael showed up yet for this discussion? probably like "scy's got this" time to get some popcorn. that or he's tired of the same argument every 3 weeks
Okay, I realize that this is going to sound like I'm tooting my own horn here; but I've lost track of the times I've cleared T13 at this point.
Also, Spear fell three clears in a row. Last one had to go to a person that hadn't even hit fifty until the following day. Yeah I know; RNG is entirely too cruel.
You can't even stick to your own damn argument while telling me I'm missing the point. I'm fairly convinced the point you're trying to make is that you don't have a point and you're just butthurt over people criticizing you, not your role.
No shit. Sometimes you screw up. It happens. Why are we attributing this to "Inner Beast is hard, guys." when it's user error?
Would you rather the thread be full of bemoaning Final Coil farm drops? Much more engaging. What was the last topic? Catgirl boobs? Hmm... actually...
When do we start work on the Austad Enterprise Mark I? The skies of Ishgard beckon to me and I wish to heed their siren song.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Thanks for the information Tabris!
Is the interior of the Mark I going to have velveteen, cashmere, hippogryph leather, ishgardian silk, or meracydian leather?
Yes.
OMG GET UR ENTITLED ASS OUT OF HERE.LET ME LAY IT DOWN FOR YOU LIKE THIS
WARRIOR
PALADIN
DARK KNIGHT
Also I decided to fix it.
Guess what? Most Warriors are this too. Lazy tanks are lazy tanks, it's a bad player problem, not a class thing. Your argument isn't about Paladin vs Warrior or anything of that nature, just that some people are lazy and are assholes while being lazy. Hooray, there's a ton of those.
I already made a snide remark about knowing boss rotations, what more do you want from me?! Galen and RIn got this.
Actually fuck it.
STOP COMPARING GOOD PLAYERS TO BAD PLAYERS AND ASSUMING THEY ARE ALL EQUAL.
I swear that is 99% of your problem every time this argument comes up. You cannot keep acting like it's inherit class design when it's human error causing every issue you come across. I mean damn man, you could easily just sit there and 123 butcher block the whole time and only use cooldowns when you see you a cast. You won't be a maximizing your potential, but neither is a PLD who just 123s the whole time either.
sometimes we use a 4
My point comes down to, "you have to be aware of the GCD when it comes to Inner Beast, and compensate when necessary. This isn't a concern for PLD's because none of their defensive actions are on the GCD."
End of story, I don't get why this is such a flipping controversial statement for you. I never said it was huge, I never said the classes were imbalanced, I said it was a thing. That shouldn't be controversial.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Well...uh...
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I'm as secure as they get. I Elusive Jump and doesnt afraid of anythin
Tengetsu making his case for captaincy.
Windrider doing the opposite. You'd think he would be all about the airships with that last name.
New players often plan to IB through a move, get delayed by an attack animation plus GCD, then panic and try to mash the IB faster instead of hitting vengeance or whatnot. From what I've seen it seems to be a pretty common mistake for people learning the role; and criticizing people for that seems somehow inappropriate to me.
Heck, made that mistake plenty of times back in First Coil era. It happens.
Most of the terrible WARs I see just think they are dps and barely use cooldowns to mitigate things to begin with.
We've concluded throughout the OT warriors are terrible
unless player isn't
Cat warrior or Lalafell warrior. Discuss. I think cat warrior is worse on the basis that potato's in plate is at least visually hilarious.
That statement isn't what I find controversial. It's your entire attitude towards Warrior as a class. If your entire statement was what is in quotes, I wouldn't have said anything. Clearly, I have said a bit more than nothing, so maybe there's something else you've said that I find controversial that you haven't realized. Maybe other people have said it too.
The reason I bring up that you can't stick to the argument at hand is because you said
I don't know about you, but that sure as hell doesn't sound like
And I won't even mention once more how misleading that final statement about defensive actions and GCDs are, because I can't hammer the same points in another time.
EDIT:
FUCKING. THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING. You are rolling cooldowns with IB as back up, not the other way around. If you're learning a fight you are going to wipe anyway, because you are learning the gods damned fight.
For Jayhawk's sake are we talking about people wet behind the ears or people tanking T10/11/12/13 for the first time? Like I said, pick your freakin' argument already. If you're just learning how to Warrior, that's a completely different story than an established, well geared warrior trying to learn T13 for the first time as MT. I assumed that scenario (the italic and bolded one for those of you playing at home) was what you were complaining about.
tiggerkiddo
Member
You know what we need to talk more about?
Fracture
Fracture
It's like rain.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I dunno, I don't think you can make a comparison between the Warrior and Paladin toolsets without bringing the traits into this- the Warrior level 28 trait is a gamechanger.
Why do we care what bad players do? A bad PLD is certainly better than a bad WAR, and PLD is easier to pick up right away but I mean again...who cares? If you are going to be a good tank you will need the same basic skills for either class, and ideally you don't want a bad player of any role in your group.
In response to Galen.
Fully knowing a bosses rotation, makes dealing with the IB GCD less of an issue. This is because you can anticipate attacks instead of simply reacting to them. Yes it's not that much of an issue to begin with; I never meant to imply that it was. Also, yes it's best for PLD's to fully learn a bosses rotation as well.
Because few people are immediately a good tank. For most people there's a learning curve. I can understand other players being frustrated when a new player is holding up their progress; but I still think people should try to be understanding.
Fully knowing a bosses rotation, makes dealing with the IB GCD less of an issue. This is because you can anticipate attacks instead of simply reacting to them. Yes it's not that much of an issue to begin with; I never meant to imply that it was. Also, yes it's best for PLD's to fully learn a bosses rotation as well.
Because few people are immediately a good tank. For most people there's a learning curve. I can understand other players being frustrated when a new player is holding up their progress; but I still think people should try to be understanding.
Spoilers: Every class in this game is secretly easy,, we're all just bads pretending otherwise.
Dude, just admit defeat and move on. I reread your initial post, and you straight up say WAR is harder because sometimes you HAVE to IB as a primary cooldown to save Thrill/Vengeance.
Now you're saying WAR is harder because new players will use the defensive cooldowns wrong. Stop trying to reframe your argument until you pick one people will agree to. It's awkward to watch.
Dude, just admit defeat and move on. I reread your initial post, and you straight up say WAR is harder because sometimes you HAVE to IB as a primary cooldown to save Thrill/Vengeance.
Now you're saying WAR is harder because new players will use the defensive cooldowns wrong. Stop trying to reframe your argument until you pick one people will agree to. It's awkward to watch.
The highest skill floor for the classes is somewhere around the basement.
Summoner is the hardest though
convincing people we're useful and all
o...ok? New players do need time to adjust, we were all bad once. Some of us still are it would seem.
But what does this have to do with the WAR/PLD classes, or any part of your argument thus far?
Idk guys, nuadha got a drodworm spear before wrongketsu so his WAR must be in the top percentile of WARs.
You forgot to use a lot of
's. You're doing terrible at subbing in as OT Tabris while he's away.
You forgot to use a lot of
's. You're doing terrible at subbing in as OT Tabris while he's away.
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