SliceSabre
Banned
RDM and PLD should help heal more often in difficult content, the game doesn't give them heals to not use.
Discuss.
Discuss.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
If healers are having trouble keeping up or preoccupied, there's no reason not to toss a heal out.
We've kinda had this discussion already. It's not the duty of the other roles to focus on healing, but if it's in service to the group's success, you should.
hamauzu kaito
Member
Hydrophobic
Member
Stone Ocean
Member
I dunno about healing others, but using their own heals on themselves to mitigate damage is certainly appreciated.
hamauzu kaito
Member
Hydrophobic
Member
When people put an S at the end they're referring to the savage version of that floor (in case you didn't know).
Man, all this talk about O4S makes me really wonder if ppl really know how HC some of the players can be in this kind of games. People seem to not understand that the main ANGERED static (Raffter Senpai, Voxfall Valerie, Elia Sand, Ayesa Faile, Wegente Leth, Quarion Govinda, Rioszz Shan and Leith Noir) are pure MONSTERS when it comes to skill in this game. They destroy everything, their personal DPS is ALWAYS top notch and what's more important, they are crazy good as a static. They communicate and feel each other perfectly and their understanding of fights is always near perfect even during progression. Right now to me, they seem perfect. There are many, MANY great players in this game and really, really good statics but as a group, those guys are unbeatable right now. The only way I see them being beaten in near future is when someone will form an "all-star" static in EU/NA or a static like Lucrezia once was, will form again in Japan.
I don't know. GAF is really good too. Most people just don't realize our poweres at 24 man raids and Zurvan EX unsynced.
Glendemonium
Member
Crazy, I've been MNK main since HW and after playing SAM I've found it hard to play MNK again, hopefully it'll come back but I wish I could join my raid static as a SAM but they asked for MNK. Either way they share the same gear so win-win.
Crafting is going to be a grind, wish the first beast tribe is a crafting/gathering one but I'll just deal with leves. I'm actually happy the new crafted gear is WoD duds that can be dyed, I want to make the red bandanna one that will go great with my jobs.
Crafting is going to be a grind, wish the first beast tribe is a crafting/gathering one but I'll just deal with leves. I'm actually happy the new crafted gear is WoD duds that can be dyed, I want to make the red bandanna one that will go great with my jobs.
I was that way with BRD/SMN. I was a SMN main since the launch of 2.0, but in 3.2 I switched over to a bard for static purposes so I began gearing that up more instead. I just stuck with BRD since then and I can't see myself going back. I love it too much and now SMN is weird to play.
This is kind of a super-obvious reference, and it doesn't work like that. To start with, if a RDM or PLD is in a situation where a clutch Clemency or Vercure will actually make the difference between a wipe and a clear? They should absolutely use that button. And in my experience the good ones absolutely do if they realize they can get their HP up enough to survive something and the healers are obviously preoccupied elsewhere. See also: the earlier discussion about RDM raises. Players should use every tool they have to help.
Buuuut... The situation isn't comparable to healer DPS. There is a point beyond which adding more healing to a fight is useless. If a Vercure or Clemency doesn't actually help with the completion of a fight, it's a wasted cast. More damage, on the other hand, always has a positive impact on the fight (barring gimmicky exceptions like the Ifrit nails scenario or undersizing A8S and murdering onslaughter while the jails are up or whatever.) More damage kills things sooner, and the practical limitation on useful healing means at some point healers are going to have GCDs that would be wasted casting a heal. If healing does nothing, the GCD should be spent on something else, and given the limitation on things to do in a combat scenario that 'something else' being dealing damage is just sort of what you're stuck with by process of elimination.
Because the end result of the healer DPS scenario is that if you're not smacking the boss when you don't need to heal, there will be times when you're doing nothing. There's a really solid argument to be made that this is an issue with the way encounters in the game handle damage dealing, but it is what it is. 40% of my casts in O2S were damage dealing skills with no healing benefit; the WHM came in somewhere around 30% damage casts that pull (35% if you count assize!) We both still overhealed a ton--64% and 57% respectively--because we were being incredibly risk averse. And we lost all four DPS at one point and had an unexpected detour into no time for damage skills getting them back up.
That is an insane amount of time for us to basically AFK in the fight if we didn't treat GCD priority as Healing > Damage > /playdead; there's a really solid argument to be made for encounter design in the game needing to make healing itself more engaging (I'm curious to see how O4S goes over the full fight, since it's a lot of panic healing but at least so far still windows where everyone's topped off), but the way things are now there's just not enough consistent healing to occupy every GCD and gotta do something.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Just got the helmet from Sirensong and im never taking it off.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
That's better.
I really enjoyed Uznair.
Just because you kind of have to go out into the world and find the location.
Normally you just use the DF to teleport into an instance so having a reason to go out into the world was cool.
Makes me wonder what they will do for Eureka which they haven't given any news on for a long time now.
I mean a party should use its full set of skills to contribute. If I can heal myself as a PLD, use Intervention/Divine Veil/Passage of Arms on a teammate, then I will. Our RDM instacasts raises, our BRD put out songs for people, etc.
The discussion isn't really just central to PLD/RDM, everyone helping the team is a duh kinda thing
The discussion isn't really just central to PLD/RDM, everyone helping the team is a duh kinda thing
hikarutilmitt
Member
Fine, I'll do it too. I finally got my DRK to 70 last night, so now I have BRD and DRK at endgame, ready to suffer through never getting drops from O/D/V/whatever Savage. Hoping to maybe eventually some time actually get a team that can clear SusEX and LakEX.
I tried to solo him the other day but he put me in a goal :-(. Was going okay up until that point. I might have more luck with RDM though due to heals.
Shy Fingers
Banned
My group went into O3S last night for the first time. I play OT, and switched after a few pulls from WAR to DRK. I much prefer WAR but the shield utility and ease of DPS rotation that DRK brings is just too much to pass up for this fight.
Got her to 68% we're running blind, and got to the part
.
Had to call it a night before we could try it though. Ah well, looking forward to Saturday. It's been a very fun fight to figure out little by little.
Got her to 68% we're running blind, and got to the part
where we're pretty sure we have to stand on the books to survive the stack/spread/falling book mechanic
Had to call it a night before we could try it though. Ah well, looking forward to Saturday. It's been a very fun fight to figure out little by little.
SliceSabre
Banned
Been getting PUG groups in O1S that are able to ice dance and fireball dodge well but the part they are failing at is the DPS.
I've been helping dps as a healer but my dps is utterly meaningless when the groups are hitting enrage with around 20% of the boss' HP left. However PUG life is what I chose so I should expect this but I believe soon I will fall in the right group with the right amount of dps to knock this fight out. It isn't that hard once you nail ice skating positions and staying from the snake's mouth so you don't get launched into orbit.
I've been helping dps as a healer but my dps is utterly meaningless when the groups are hitting enrage with around 20% of the boss' HP left. However PUG life is what I chose so I should expect this but I believe soon I will fall in the right group with the right amount of dps to knock this fight out. It isn't that hard once you nail ice skating positions and staying from the snake's mouth so you don't get launched into orbit.
Agreed. Can't even say "not my job" because Vercure/Clemency is literally under the Job tab.
I dropped my RDM for SAM because I enjoy the latter more but nothing makes me more angry than RDMs that don't raise.
Hopefully I like Dark knight because thats the only tank that really interests me
I have a passing interest in Astrologian but being a healer sounds too stressful
royox
Member
Raise uses a shitload of MP. It's not worth it to raise a guy with a debuff and stay with 1000mp left and decreasing till our refreshing skill is up again.
Basically. I just raised a tank, healer, and dps to 30ish while I had the preferred server buff and it's been a huge help because I can queue for whatever is in need quickly and for the bonus. I'd definitely recommend it.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I got RDM to 70 and while Verraise and Vercure are cool, I feel like RDM is a bit too simplistic to keep me going for long.
It seems like SAM has a bit more meat on its bones so I'm leveling that next.
Healing has to be the most overpowered role in the game. It's scary at first and then at some point you realize how ridiculously powerful healing spells are and suddenly you have all this unexpected free time.
It'll be heavily group dependent, but I think our combined healer DPS usually adds up to ~10%-~14% of rDPS depending on the fight and how much bonus crap people are eating. It's this weird situation of fights are totally doable without healer DPS contribution, but since there's nothing else to do might as well push out as much damage as possible because by the time you realize you're looking at a low % enrage it's too late to go back and chuck the extra damage out. If you can change a 10-15% enrage into a 5-10% enrage, it also occasionally motivates PF randoms to start popping food and pots
and focusing hard when they realize the thing dying is really close.
It'll be heavily group dependent, but I think our combined healer DPS usually adds up to ~10%-~14% of rDPS depending on the fight and how much bonus crap people are eating. It's this weird situation of fights are totally doable without healer DPS contribution, but since there's nothing else to do might as well push out as much damage as possible because by the time you realize you're looking at a low % enrage it's too late to go back and chuck the extra damage out. If you can change a 10-15% enrage into a 5-10% enrage, it also occasionally motivates PF randoms to start popping food and pots
and focusing hard when they realize the thing dying is really close.
I've raised 3+ times in a Susan clear, RDMs can keep up the mana. It's not like it makes a difference whether they're at 90% mana or 30%, as long as it doesn't dip below 10%. Aggressive Lucid use keeps you in between 60% and 90% for the majority of the fight.
A Verraise is, what, 25% of your mana pool? Ask yourself "can I do an extra 2300 dps with this GCD and 25% mana", because this is what the group is losing every second a dps is dead. Even more if it's a high throughput DPS like SAM.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Any of the older dungeons, SCH can kinda just let the fairy do 95% of the healing. Have to drop an Adlo on bigger pulls or whatever so the fairy catches up, but other than that it's mostly pure DPS. Once you enter Stormblood, damage is quite a bit higher and you have to cast heals more often, especially when the tank does big pulls or plays that version of FFXIV where they have to pay real money to use their cooldowns so they keep them for real emergencies, which is never/when they drop to 10% right before you hit your big heals. With a good tank though you don't even have to heal that much. Then in 70 dungeons once people outgear stuff it starts being easy again.
I've only had one instance of trouble healing in a SB dungeon. All of the other times have been okay.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Depends on the tank a lot and how much they're pulling. There's a bunch of "heal hard" pulls if the tank pulls 2 groups at a time, like first bardam pulls, first shisui pull, sirensong undead+wolf pull and so on. They're not that bad if 1) the tank uses his cooldown appropriately 2) the DPS are actually aoeing instead of doing their single target rotation when there's 6 to 12mobs grouped together. These pulls generally require a fair amount of healing so you need to adlo/physick a bunch, use exco/lustrate and can't really be standing there spamming Miasma 2. Also some of these, especially for example Bardam first big pull, if the DPS are being really bad and both doing single target and low dmg, you might run into mana issues due to the time it takes to clear everything and the tank running out of cooldowns. I've had it happen once.
Out of these big pulls though yeah it's kinda whatever.
royox
Member
Relaxed Muscle
Member
As a PLD I think Clemency is more for me than actually to help heal ppl. But onxe again I had a healer say to me:"Oh you're one of those Clemenholics?"
Because I used Clemency too much
Is not my fault you wait until less than <10k to throw me a heal
mrhappy's yoshida interview
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m6okFR8siR1fS47Nmm5YoB6CGQKUlCVSZpTYgueWOrA/preview
seems like we'll have shinryu ex and super savage?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m6okFR8siR1fS47Nmm5YoB6CGQKUlCVSZpTYgueWOrA/preview
seems like we'll have shinryu ex and super savage?
Stone Ocean
Member
Sounds like Super Savage will have some form of storyline going on? I'm intrigued
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The Storyline for Super Savage will be to bring back Minfilia from the First Light World.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
MCH with shot mastery is some other shit
I'm pleased
I'm pleased
Stone Ocean
Member
On second thought lets not
I don't mind them putting work into Super Savage, but putting work into something that literally 1-5% of the playerbase will ever see, let alone beat, seems like an interesting use of resources.
It's something that WoW got away from when they realized that only a small percentage of their base even sees it (thus switching to the Mythic type system which I think FFXIV would highly benefit from).
It's something that WoW got away from when they realized that only a small percentage of their base even sees it (thus switching to the Mythic type system which I think FFXIV would highly benefit from).
Is it really that hard to complete Savage content unless you're super serious about it? I'd like to give it a shot at some point, but it seems like only people with statics are going for it.
The first two fights in the current Savage tier are incredibly accessible to anyone with a basic grasp of their jobs and dodging. Bit of learning to do but not a massive time commitment by any stretch. The last two are more difficult, although 3 is going to get a lot easier as guides come out and people adopt 'standards' for handling the mechanics, and 4 seems tailor made to bend to gearing eventually.
That said, the fight designed here is supposed to be much much harder than those, to provide a challenge for people who blew through the raid tier during the off-patch. . Basically give them something to do while waiting for next tier.
I'm just going to go sit in a corner and rock quietly back and forth.
> Design hard endgame raids with a story behind them. Casual players are upset they can't see the story
> introduce two difficulties in raid so everyone can see all the story! Raiders get frustrated with the fights being too hard
> Make the hard stuff more accessible, so everyone can see the story and clear the raids if they want to be about that raid life! Subsegment is wistful for the missing harder content
> Announce super savage fights that will be so hard only the "top" players will be able to clear it. Tell people you don't want to hear complaints about how hard it is, because it's supposed to be inaccessible to the masses
> Design super hard endgame raid with a story behind it. I WONDER HOW THIS GOES FROM HERE
That said, the fight designed here is supposed to be much much harder than those, to provide a challenge for people who blew through the raid tier during the off-patch. . Basically give them something to do while waiting for next tier.
I'm just going to go sit in a corner and rock quietly back and forth.
> Design hard endgame raids with a story behind them. Casual players are upset they can't see the story
> introduce two difficulties in raid so everyone can see all the story! Raiders get frustrated with the fights being too hard
> Make the hard stuff more accessible, so everyone can see the story and clear the raids if they want to be about that raid life! Subsegment is wistful for the missing harder content
> Announce super savage fights that will be so hard only the "top" players will be able to clear it. Tell people you don't want to hear complaints about how hard it is, because it's supposed to be inaccessible to the masses
> Design super hard endgame raid with a story behind it. I WONDER HOW THIS GOES FROM HERE
It's possible to find fault in the things while still enjoying aspects, and value in trying to communicate with others with differing perspectives about it.
I got a macro where double tap on shoulders and one of the buttons selects somebody. I just wanted to be able to select someone when moving.
Anyway, as a WHM I find it really hard to pick up tanking. I always panic when adds or new things appear.