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[SPAW]

The E3 2013 trailer is now the greatest bullshot of all time.

in that the graphics are way better than that crap?

 

[UrbanRats]

in that the graphics are way better than that crap?

Crap? The 2013 trailer was comprised of two distinct slices, one was shitty (the arena battle) one was amazing (the Venice-like city shots).

I think the Venice shots were target render, whereas the crappy arena shots were the real deal.

 

[sprsk]

This thread is a fun thread.

 

[SPAW]

Crap? The 2013 trailer was comprised of two distinct slices, one was shitty (the arena battle) one was amazing (the Venice-like city shots).

I think the Venice shots were target render, whereas the crappy arena shots were the real deal.

Please go and compare the target render shots of the character models with the demo

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Crap? The 2013 trailer was comprised of two distinct slices, one was shitty (the arena battle) one was amazing (the Venice-like city shots).

I think the Venice shots were target render, whereas the crappy arena shots were the real deal.

If you look closely even at the venice city shots, the characters models aren't that good. Certainly not as good as they are now.

 

[Mariip]

Akio Ofuji.

That guy.

I blame it all on him. He's the marketing guy.

Yeap... the bad PR, those sexist comments, and also because some companies tend to use the marketing folks to guide some game related decisions (like changing Stella's character to Luna, Prompto's face and Regis' design, erasing all that cool mafia theme so they can use a FF Game of thronesy thing) because some obscure focus group didn't like them,

I don't really think Square enix uses this approach to every game they make, but in this case we have a new director for a game with 9 years of hype and they just want it to sell =\. Also, as the marketing guy is present in EVERY ATR, i really think he might be the one who is making the choices in this game, and that's a really really bad thing D:

(btw i'm a designer and I hate the marketing folks because that's what they do to us, in my country at least D: , so this is more like an opinion based on rage since I don't know what the hell is going on there =D' )

 

[Kagari]

Yeap... the bad PR, those sexist comments, and also because some companies tend to use the marketing folks to guide some game related decisions (like changing Stella's character to Luna, Prompto's face and Regis' design, erasing all that cool mafia theme so they can use a FF Game of thronesy thing) because some obscure focus group didn't like them,
I don't really think Square enix uses this approach to every game they make, but in this case we have a new director for a game with 9 years of hype and they just want it to sell =\. Also, as the marketing guy is present in EVERY ATR, i really think he might be the one who is making the choices in this game, and that's a really really bad thing D:

(btw i'm a designer and I hate the marketing folks because that's what they do to us, in my country at least D: , so this is more like an opinion based on rage since I don't know what the hell is going on there =D' )

I really, really really really really hope this wasn't what happened.

 

[Koozek]

I was literally shaking with anger during that presentation. Tears formed in my eyes and my fists were clenched. "Announce something," I shrieked at my computer. My mom knocked on my bedroom door and had to ask if I was ok. Then, they started showing me a bunch of losers drinking beer and I just turned it off. It was actually unbelievable.

Now, I'm 31 years old and this was, without a doubt, the worst presentation I've ever seen in my life. It's clear that SquareEnix is not just done with this game but done as a company. There is no recovering from something this bad. They'll talk about Final Fantasy XV at another conference, but people will ignore it after remembering what they did to poor Stella.

I loved this company and put my heart and soul into dedicating my gaming life to them. But now, I have nothing. I'm an empty shell.

Wow. This is the new "Square Enix just shot themselves in the foot.".

EDIT: Okay, you got me Well done! You really don't know anymore what's real and not when it comes to overdramatic reactions in FFXV threads, haha. What has this game done to people...

Almost!

 

[Nerokis]

I feel this.

I don't. People see every change they perceive to the story/characters/etc. to be the FFXV team messing around, wasting time, having stupid priorities. Yet Tabata acknowledges that airships aren't guaranteed, and if they can't be properly implemented in due time, they'll perhaps be released as downloadable content later. That's him prioritizing with a release date in mind, and basically saying anything that they miss will have to be relegated to post-release content.

Don't see a problem with that, really. The concept of airship DLC sounds ridiculous on its face, but it's better than making more lofty promises that only end up dragging out development.

 

[Comet]

Are project/product managers an extra niche profession in Japan?

 

[Mariip]

I really, really really really really hope this wasn't what happened.

I know I said this was an opinion based on rage, but based in every work I made until now, drastic changes are a consequence of either the fact that the project was in it's initiall stages(so EVERYTHING could change) or because some client/marketing folk said it's not going to sell. (i'm still in college so I don't really think square-enix actually does that, but the situation of this game looks so much like the times where we were in a project crisis that I can't help but compare D: )

Since they changed a lot of things that almost everyone liked about the game, some to make it simpler (like the romeo and juliet plot), some to make it more 'fantasyish' like Regis' design because "it's a numbered FF now". All those look like bad calls that a bad marketing team would make to me =/

Nomura was in a position inside SE where he could make any call and the marketing guys would not say a thing because, well, he made Kingdom Hearts! that's one of their biggest franchises ever! (he sells), Tabata is still a new director in a game that wasn't his, and there is a lot of pressure around this game, it would make a lot of sense if they make the marketing team stronger there, since there is no room for mistakes =/

Seeing the things as they are now, maybe Disney is also to blame for that, the pressure around KHIII must have been high and they need Nomura for that too, i'd NEVER change directors for this game unless I had a billion-dollar partnership at stake =P

 

[UrbanRats]

Please go and compare the target render shots of the character models with the demo

If you look closely even at the venice city shots, the characters models aren't that good. Certainly not as good as they are now.

Oh, well ok, but i still wouldn't call that crap.
Especially the lighting is phenomenal.

 

[KHlover]

I know I said this was an opinion based on rage, but based in every work I made until now, drastic changes are a consequence of either the fact that the project was in it's initiall stages(so EVERYTHING could change) or because some client/marketing folk said it's not going to sell. (i'm still in college so I don't really think square-enix actually does that, but the situation of this game looks so much like the times where we were in a project crisis that I can't help but compare D: )

So would you say it was a fantasy, based on reality?

Spoiler

 

[Mariip]

So would you say it was a fantasy, based on reality?

Spoiler

haha nice one!

Spoiler

Reality is a really harsh thing that makes you want to kill your best friends though D:

The nice thing is, changes made because the project was still in early stages almost always make it much better! =D

It could be either case by know, btw, Nomura is the mastermind of putting random things in a trailer and making it look awesome =/

 

[Arkeband]

Regis can have multiple sets of clothing.

The redesign was his face / giving him a beard. And considering the time skip it's possible the beard changes too.

So I wouldn't worry about it being "too fantasy" just yet, I see his more armored clothing as being some sort of battle regalia, like ornamental.

 

[SPAW]

Oh, well ok, but i still wouldn't call that crap.
Especially the lighting is phenomenal.

OK, small overreaction, but claiming that FFXV have not gone beyond what was presented in 2013 is just wrong.

 

[Mariip]

Regis can have multiple sets of clothing.

The redesign was his face / giving him a beard. And considering the time skip it's possible the beard changes too.

So I wouldn't worry about it being "too fantasy" just yet, I see his more armored clothing as being some sort of battle regalia, like ornamental.

Yeah, I think that was an war attire/ceremonial clothing since noctis's and co. ones didn't change... he may lose some beard and easily have a face close to the old CG's as well... but i keep my pessimism up so i won't be dissapointed ^^

 

[Koozek]

They know about the negative reception and understand:

"We looked at the reactions to yesterday's ATR, and we understand that people expected a big information update at Gamescom, and we do understand that we really disappointed people, and we're really regretful about that," Tabata said.

"We came to Gamescom this year with our plan - having people who know the series and people who don't we wanted to introduce the information on a level playing field. We miscalculated the kind of expectations towards this event, especially for what people want to see at this show. There was a big gap between our perceptions of what people should be doing and what people expected. And we realised that very quickly after the reaction!

"We really wanted to say something else, so we've got something we'd like to say - you won't be waiting until 2017. We want to get that across. We want to reassure people that we are going to get it out."

 

[Mariip]

"We came to Gamescom this year with our plan - having people who know the series and people who don't we wanted to introduce the information on a level playing field. We miscalculated the kind of expectations towards this event, especially for what people want to see at this show. There was a big gap between our perceptions of what people should be doing and what people expected. And we realised that very quickly after the reaction!

THIS is bad marketing research at it's finest =|
Really, just look at any FFXV related thread around the web for 10 minutes, folks D:

 

[raven777]

They know about the negative reception and understand:

"We looked at the reactions to yesterday's ATR, and we understand that people expected a big information update at Gamescom, and we do understand that we really disappointed people, and we're really regretful about that," Tabata said.

"We came to Gamescom this year with our plan - having people who know the series and people who don't we wanted to introduce the information on a level playing field. We miscalculated the kind of expectations towards this event, especially for what people want to see at this show. There was a big gap between our perceptions of what people should be doing and what people expected. And we realised that very quickly after the reaction!

"We really wanted to say something else, so we've got something we'd like to say - you won't be waiting until 2017. We want to get that across. We want to reassure people that we are going to get it out."

Seriously Tabata and his team are so out of touch in regards to how they market this game. Did they really think this gamescom showing was going to satisfy the fans? really??

 

[Setsu00]

One thing I wasn't expecting was the backlash from the people who'd followed the game from early on, and its first version. The negative reaction was quite surprising.

I do not believe this.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I do not believe this.

If he really didn't expect it, he's 100% out of touch. Which isn't completely impossible TBH.

 

[BY2K]

Yeap... the bad PR, those sexist comments, and also because some companies tend to use the marketing folks to guide some game related decisions (like changing Stella's character to Luna, Prompto's face and Regis' design, erasing all that cool mafia theme so they can use a FF Game of thronesy thing) because some obscure focus group didn't like them,

Oh please God no.

I'm out of the loop a little on this, what sexist comments?

 

[Garlador]

Seriously Tabata and his team are so out of touch in regards to how they market this game. Did they really think this gamescom showing was going to satisfy the fans? really??

Well, Square Enix has a whole had, for nearly an entire console generation, misunderstood and misinterpreted the fans.

Remember when Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD and Bravely Default sold well and they went "wow, we didn't know fans in the west still liked traditional JRPGs!"? I STILL can't fathom that.

 

[Mariip]

Oh please God no.

I'm out of the loop a little on this, what sexist comments?

oh gosh, i wrote it that way so we wouldn't start the Cidney thing again -__-

The marketing manager said at april's ATR that he thought people saying Cidney is "too sexy" and that they "want a female party member" are contradictory because women are only in games for the eyecandy

It went like this basically

But please, let's not make this thread about this again D: you can just read this thread and see the backlash for yourself

Spoiler

I'm still a junior i don't wanna get banned for this sorry i_i

 

[Koozek]

Not only that but we know where Insomnia is on the world map. All the way in the top right corner. The thing dubbed huge structure. Compare the shapes of the wall and the outline of the structure.

Source: Thanks to the user Luminous-Night from the Mognet forums

 

[DSix]

I was literally shaking with anger during that presentation. Tears formed in my eyes and my fists were clenched. "Announce something," I shrieked at my computer. My mom knocked on my bedroom door and had to ask if I was ok. Then, they started showing me a bunch of losers drinking beer and I just turned it off. It was actually unbelievable.

Now, I'm 31 years old and this was, without a doubt, the worst presentation I've ever seen in my life. It's clear that SquareEnix is not just done with this game but done as a company. There is no recovering from something this bad. They'll talk about Final Fantasy XV at another conference, but people will ignore it after remembering what they did to poor Stella.

I loved this company and put my heart and soul into dedicating my gaming life to them. But now, I have nothing. I'm an empty shell.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

They know about the negative reception and understand:

"We looked at the reactions to yesterday's ATR, and we understand that people expected a big information update at Gamescom, and we do understand that we really disappointed people, and we're really regretful about that," Tabata said.

"We came to Gamescom this year with our plan - having people who know the series and people who don't we wanted to introduce the information on a level playing field. We miscalculated the kind of expectations towards this event, especially for what people want to see at this show. There was a big gap between our perceptions of what people should be doing and what people expected. And we realised that very quickly after the reaction!

"We really wanted to say something else, so we've got something we'd like to say - you won't be waiting until 2017. We want to get that across. We want to reassure people that we are going to get it out."

"We have expectations and plans in place for various contingencies. If it does well and people enjoy it, very naturally people will want to spend more time in that world. We've been setting up possibilities and contingencies plans for having tales and experiences in that world. Before that, in the same way they gave me a chance to make the game, it'd be good to have younger development talent opportunities to take on those projects."

Sequels if sales are good confirmed

 

[MogCakes]

What. Why? It's great.

I meant it's the game people don't want to acknowledge because it's an MMO, despite being one of the best FFs in recent memory.

 

[Koozek]

Nice tidbit:

"As seen in the trailer, Tabata confirms you'll also find out more about Noctis' past in flashbacks. This extends to the dog and mysterious girl we saw in the trailer. The dog isn't just a stray, but it's also not someone's pet. The narrative covers a large portion of the main characters' lives and friendship, and this dog plays a key role in that. "That dog actually plays a really big part in the events that take place a little later in their lives - after the young-man phase," Tabata says."

 

[silva1991]

Yeap... the bad PR, those sexist comments, and also because some companies tend to use the marketing folks to guide some game related decisions (like changing Stella's character to Luna, Prompto's face and Regis' design, erasing all that cool mafia theme so they can use a FF Game of thronesy thing) because some obscure focus group didn't like them,

Really? that's possibly the reason why they removed Stella and changed story and the glorious old Rigis design?

I'm disgusted.

 

[TRI Mike]

Yesterday's presentation was so fucking bad that it made me question why I was a Final Fantasy fan in the first place. "Why am I so excited for this game if everything about it is going so badly" I though. It was shitty, on my way home from work I had to play Uematsu music in my car and as soon as I entered my room, I logged into XIV and watched some V, VI and VII videos to try and cheer me up.

It was a huge disaster. I just cannot concieve how they made the decision to go with yesterday's

Spoiler

lack of

information. It was depressing and once again, FFXV is becoming the laughting stock of the industry.

 

[Zoe]

Really? that's possibly the reason why they removed Stella and changed story and the glorious old Rigis design?

I'm disgusted.

It was already mentioned earlier in the thread that they changed Stella to Luna because they wanted a "strong" female who could take care of herself, implying that Stella ultimately wasn't.

The Regis thing feels like trying to appeal to Westerners who don't like playing as pretty boys

 

[semiconscious]

Yeap... the bad PR, those sexist comments, and also because some companies tend to use the marketing folks to guide some game related decisions (like changing Stella's character to Luna, Prompto's face and Regis' design, erasing all that cool mafia theme so they can use a FF Game of thronesy thing) because some obscure focus group didn't like them,

I don't really think Square enix uses this approach to every game they make, but in this case we have a new director for a game with 9 years of hype and they just want it to sell =\. Also, as the marketing guy is present in EVERY ATR, i really think he might be the one who is making the choices in this game, and that's a really really bad thing D:

(btw i'm a designer and I hate the marketing folks because that's what they do to us, in my country at least D: , so this is more like an opinion based on rage since I don't know what the hell is going on there =D' )

good post!...

yes, this's what happens when a project loses it's confidence & sense of direction: the loudest, cockiest voices dominate (& that's often the marketing people, since loud & cocky's their thing )...

 

[Nerokis]

Really? that's possibly the reason why they removed Stella and changed story and the glorious old Rigis design?

I'm disgusted.

Your buttons are so easily pressed. It's baseless speculation. It's true that marketing has an influence on game development (it's rarely the case that it doesn't), but that most likely didn't suddenly start being true post-director change. And attributing all the changes you mentioned to pure marketing concerns is completely ridiculous. It's not a coincidence that things changed from what was promised 8 years ago, after a game that was in the worst stage of development hell got given to a completely new team, and actually started being put together. Come on.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

The trailer wasn't that bad.
How the game looks is the last thing I woulde be worried about when it comes to a mainline Final Fantasy game.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I'm playing Lighting Returns demo for the first time and the combat is surprisingly fun. Just based on the demo alone she has great depth and character. I might rent FFXIII to see why is considered "bad". On the Lightning Train!

I enjoyed FFXII a great deal (for reference my favorites are 7,10,9) - the worst aspects of it are it is linear, and Vanille/Snow/Hope are annoying as hell. The music, combat, story (albeit convoluted) and Fang/Lightning/Sazh as characters are all good/great.

 

[Mariip]

Really? that's possibly the reason why they removed Stella and changed story and the glorious old Rigis design?

I'm disgusted.

That's ONE of the reasons they might have to change that, I still believe the project being in it's initial stages until 2013~2014 and the budget are the main reasons =/

we can't discard that possibility... marketing folks bitch about the color of the covers in magazines("white does not sell"), tell producers to add lots of fanservice into games that doesn't need that, tell designers to change good stealth/horror/any genre games into CTE filled action ones... really they are responsible for researching people's demands (and "latent" demands, when there's not something that people need but they want to make they believe they have to buy X stuff) to see what the public would like to spend money into and thell the companies so they meet that demand, they are not just a bunch of people making advertisements and organizing the schedule for events, they do their research and give some ideas for the projects too =/

BUT how the company uses that research is what matters, some companies let the marketing folks lead a bit more, others let the design team do their job, and i believe square enix may have a different approach for every game in that regard...

Your buttons are so easily pressed. It's baseless speculation. It's true that marketing has an influence on game development (it's rarely the case that it doesn't), but that most likely didn't suddenly start being true post-director change. And attributing all the changes you mentioned to pure marketing concerns is completely ridiculous. It's not a coincidence that things changed from what was promised 8 years ago, after a game that was in the worst stage of development hell got given to a completely new team, and actually started being put together. Come on.

This, i couldn't say it better myself :|, we don't know how strong the marketing team is at SE, nor how much of the game was made untill 2013, remember that Nomura said that every phrase in the KH2 secret ending was random and they had to fit them in the game later? It's the same thing, up to 2013 the game was just a concept, like a TV show pilot, and we should forget it all for our own good

 

[Kagari]

It was already mentioned earlier in the thread that they changed Stella to Luna because they wanted a "strong" female who could take care of herself, implying that Stella ultimately wasn't.

The Regis thing feels like trying to appeal to Westerners who don't like playing as pretty boys

How was the original Regis a pretty boy??

 

[Kagari]

Sequels if sales are good confirmed

This makes me angry if only because they killed the original Versus script because they wanted to eliminate sequels.

 

[Zoe]

How was the original Regis a pretty boy??

I dunno, you got me!

All I know is now we have this gritty grampa.

And they're de-Asianing all the characters

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

For everyone wondering about FFVII engine:

GC 2015: Final Fantasy VII Remake won’t run on Luminous Engine

 

[Ray Down]

How was the original Regis a pretty boy??

I know, Regis just looked like a dad.

If you want a pretty boy man in this game just look at Cor

 

[Koozek]

Hey guys, I heard you'd love to see more of Episode Duscae!

Spoiler

One of the German Youtubers, Gregor from Rocketbeans TV/Game One (Chaz Ashley here on GAF) is playing live and it's streaming on their Twitch channel:

http://www.twitch.tv/rocketbeanstv

 

[Gbraga]

How was the original Regis a pretty boy??

And we don't even play as him (or do we?). I really like the new Regis, but come on, haha.

 

[crooked spin]

Source: Thanks to the user Luminous-Night from the Mognet forums

Any chance you can rehost/repost these pics? Seems like you gotta be a member to see em. Love me some maps.

 

[Mariip]

And we don't even play as him (or do we?). I really like the new Regis, but come on, haha.

Old regis looked like he had more charisma and a better connection with his son, and he didn't even had to hug him foor 90 seconds... i mean:

Spoiler

still hope they keep this scene tho :'D

 

[Death Penalty]

I actually appreciate the apology about disappointing us at this event. It doesn't seem like all that long ago that SE would never even acknowledge the disappointment.

This makes me angry if only because they killed the original Versus script because they wanted to eliminate sequels.

This is too true though and it totally sucks!

 

[Koozek]

Any chance you can rehost/repost these pics? Seems like you gotta be a member to see em. Love me some maps.

Ohh, oops. Sorry! Will edit my post.

 

[cripterion]

I didn't read the whole thread so I'll just ask here, is the summary in the OP true?