YankeeDonB
Member
Fang may be my all time favorite FF design. But XIII has some pretty awful designs as well. And I think Cor, black-haired girl, red-haired guy, and new Regis are all pretty excellent in XV.
Final Fantasy XV Gamescom Active Time Report - CNN reporting live from disaster scene
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Fang may be my all time favorite FF design. But XIII has some pretty awful designs as well. And I think Cor, black-haired girl, red-haired guy, and new Regis are all pretty excellent in XV.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
That battle compilation for Episode Duscae 2.0 was nicely done. Random footage were accompanied by annotations, providing tips and strategies. I know the combat is kinda janky right now, but I still feel that it has potential to be something good, when missing features are implemented and polished. Armiger though, felt a little OP and hard to control precisely, and the relentless swarm of enemies, not a fan of that.
I still think that holding button to attack indefinitely has to go. I know button tapping is still possible, but it didn't felt like a one to one relationship. And weapon animation during infinite combo looks really awkward and not...fun.
LouisaFerre
Member
I don't think it's going to play the way 2013 did, but it's kind of unfair to compare what Nomura himself said was high level gameplay to what you experience in episode duscae. If you've played KH2FM you should know that the speed and mobility in the combat increases DRAMATICALLY as you progress through the game and get growth abilities.
You should probably take a little look at this footage from shortly after TGS 2014.
EDIT: I'm going to leave this up for my own humiliation but I just realized why I'm being silly. That footage was captured primarily with phantom sword mode, so it still doesn't really support the idea that the regular gameplay will be that fast.
EatinOlives
Member
My opinion/speculation/conclusion:
Looks to me like, ultimately, the fault was in the E3 2013 trailer, where at that point the game's development was rebooted, not merely continued. They carried over the story, a lot of assets, and the general direction, but absolutely none of it was finalized. Everything that changed since then (director, characters, names, designs, etc.) are all things that happen when a game is in active development. The problem was that the 2013 trailer and their own talk gave the impression that the game was well underway in terms of development, when in reality it was just re-starting. Since then development has progressed steadily and has been shown relatively frequently. Hell, they even got a playable demo out the door.
The issue with this year is that they skipped E3 because they didn't want to devote time and resources into another grandiose showing, and instead just deferred people to Gamescom for an "update", with the biggest problem being that "update" being hyped as a huge media blowout ("center stage!" etc.). Like I said a few pages back, the blunder at Gamescom and the decision of skipping E3 doesn't really mean the actual development itself is troubled, it was just shitty PR.
That's why there's a lot of "maybe"s regarding story, designs, etc., because the game is active in development. If we have to put it into percentages, I (and I think many others) were under the impression that game development of Versus XIII became a priority a couple of years prior to the 2013 trailer and at that point was ~65-75% done, and I thought it'd be out by two years (e.g., December 2015) at the latest. In my opinion I think the reality is that the game's development was rebooted a few months before E3 2013 and at the time of the trailer that development was maybe ~10-25% done, and now we're getting up to ~65-75%. Which definitely doesn't sound too crazy, but the problem is the prolonged pre-production prior to 2013 and the fact that Squeenix never bothered telling us just how early the game actually was at E3 2013. They definitely wanted to avoid having to tell people to wait several more years but...well...that's exactly what they're doing now so I don't know why they thought just kicking that can down the road would've helped them.
Looks to me like, ultimately, the fault was in the E3 2013 trailer, where at that point the game's development was rebooted, not merely continued. They carried over the story, a lot of assets, and the general direction, but absolutely none of it was finalized. Everything that changed since then (director, characters, names, designs, etc.) are all things that happen when a game is in active development. The problem was that the 2013 trailer and their own talk gave the impression that the game was well underway in terms of development, when in reality it was just re-starting. Since then development has progressed steadily and has been shown relatively frequently. Hell, they even got a playable demo out the door.
The issue with this year is that they skipped E3 because they didn't want to devote time and resources into another grandiose showing, and instead just deferred people to Gamescom for an "update", with the biggest problem being that "update" being hyped as a huge media blowout ("center stage!" etc.). Like I said a few pages back, the blunder at Gamescom and the decision of skipping E3 doesn't really mean the actual development itself is troubled, it was just shitty PR.
That's why there's a lot of "maybe"s regarding story, designs, etc., because the game is active in development. If we have to put it into percentages, I (and I think many others) were under the impression that game development of Versus XIII became a priority a couple of years prior to the 2013 trailer and at that point was ~65-75% done, and I thought it'd be out by two years (e.g., December 2015) at the latest. In my opinion I think the reality is that the game's development was rebooted a few months before E3 2013 and at the time of the trailer that development was maybe ~10-25% done, and now we're getting up to ~65-75%. Which definitely doesn't sound too crazy, but the problem is the prolonged pre-production prior to 2013 and the fact that Squeenix never bothered telling us just how early the game actually was at E3 2013. They definitely wanted to avoid having to tell people to wait several more years but...well...that's exactly what they're doing now so I don't know why they thought just kicking that can down the road would've helped them.
chozen
Member
I know what footage you are talking about. No need to post. Where he was in the middle fighting all the soldiers. But that plays nothing like it did before, it's all automated in the demo and SO SLOPPY, you teleport to random locations sometimes and the camera gets all shitty.
From the GET GO Kh2 was fast. Edit* With early game sora, not roxas
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
but when the basic attach speed is that fast it could have been nothing more than XXXXXXXXXX with all the teleporting completely automated.
what we got in Duscae 2.0 is a great base system now for them to add more elements and fine tune.
QuantumZebra
Member
resting your case?
you're comparing a main character to NPC.
or
I rest my case.
Uh...
I was comparing Fang to all of them. Not just Cindy. Fang's design is >>>>>>>> every character I've seen in FFXV alone (I also love Lightning and Sazh's design as well, and other side NPCs from XIII more).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(I could seriously walk out of a section of Hot Topic in 5 minutes looking like Noctis)
More examples:
vs.
Actual character design vs. early 2000's tribal tattoo dudebro.
Case has been rested.
Noctis is warping like 5 times within that one shot. When Noctis is able to warp in Duscae and use the Armiger, he's insanely fast as well.
Look at the E3 2013 shots without the Armiger or warping and look at the same thing with Duscae. They're very similar speeds.
I'm not saying that the game is the same, but the speeds are very similar.
LouisaFerre
Member
Yeah, that's actually a real shame. Maybe if they have some form of growth ability that lets you do short range warping manually outside of phantom sword, but I guess I shouldn't really hold my breath for that.
I would say though, that specific gif you linked looks like it's less sloppy because Noctis is only dealing with one soldier. I don't see how it can be that fast without still being automated. The shining part of the XV 2013 gameplay that I hope they carry over was the slower scene occurring at nighttime, where Noctis is in the crowd of soldiers and seems to be warping manually.
chozen
Member
Basically, but what I can see happening is you can teleport to enemies yourself in the game Target them, warp, attack, after target dies you start falling and look for the next target to warp to rinse repeat. That seems fine air combat shouldn't be so complex, and I think it is a step up from what we could do in KH2.
The base combat in the demo feels so bad like the automatic combos are over shadowing my manual button presses and I can feel that I'm not really in control.
Papacheeks
Banned
This is what I was trying to tell him/her. It went from slower combat system that felt like Crisis Core combat in term's of the speed at which character attacks, and distance between enemies. Then was changed to a more fluid Kingdom hearts style combat with a warp ability to help close distances with enemies or used to get away. This system and changes made sense since lead designer from that series was working on FF VX at the time they unveiled it, then left to spear head Kingdom Hearts 3.
Clearly you don't appreciate Roen's style, but FFXIII design aesthetics wouldn't work in FFXV's world
I think you mistake your personal preferences with objective fact. FFXV won't please everyone. That's fine. FFXIII didn't please everyone either. Yeah, and that means the character designs too. I'd say especially the character designs.
Look at these goobers. For every Lightning and Fang, there is an entire narrow hallway full of weirdos like this.
chozen
Member
Yes outside of armiger, short range warping in order follow flying targets in air, makes a lot of sense. That's what they need to aim for.
This can still be a possibility, but they need to flatten out the sloppy feel.
I already stated that Noctis is not in Armiger mode in that gif that's him on the normal while in the air, you can tell because he isn't switching weapons that entire time.
The on ground combat looked way smoother in e3 2013,
http://gfycat.com/GrandioseAlertAmethystinepython
The worst parts are the strings of Ravage attacks. They get really monotonous.
I think that comes down to whether the enemy has a hitstun or not and if you have to switch to the defensive.
Clearly you don't appreciate Roen's style, but FFXIII design aesthetics wouldn't work in FFXV's world
I think you mistake your personal preferences with objective fact. FFXV won't please everyone. That's fine. FFXIII didn't please everyone either. Yeah, and that means the character designs too. I'd say especially the character designs.
Look at these goobers. For every Lightning and Fang, there is an entire narrow hallway full of weirdos like this.
God yeah the NPC character designs in FFXIII were the absolute worst
That silver haired guy looks like he has Noel clothes to me lol.
I get what you're saying, but my point was without short warp and Armiger and using base attacks. In your example, short Warps make things go much smoother and makes things faster. Tabata has said that the abilities you can perform are like E3 2013, and that everything hasn't been ported over to Luminous. I hope (and think) you can perform short warps in the final game.
And yeah, it's probably tied to RPG level-like progression. When you got one of the Armiger swords in the demo, you were able to use the Armiger shield to block bullets without using any MP. If you equip certain swords, then it'll probably give you that additional functionality.
QuantumZebra
Member
Roen's style meaning the Japanese style that is literally what everyone in a nu-metal band in America wore from 1998-2004? I mean you can call it a "style" but it's just all black clothes with generic tribal tats / buttons / looks. It's been done to death.
Lightning, Fang, Sazh, they had legit designs. I could sketch the designs for the entire FFXV cast in my sleep. It literally is a nu-metal/boy band dressed like they walked out of Hot Topic. I don't care what the NPCs looked like in the world - I'm talking about the main characters.
And I see what you're saying about the XIII designs not fitting in XV's world - but the original Versus XIII designs looked leagues better than the current ones. If they are in a "realistic" "mafia-type" FF world they should look like Regis did in the original trailer, or Noctis in a suit.
Even for their "realistic world" they look like a bunch of kids stuck in early 2000's Hot Topic nu-metal garbage.
It's sad.
chozen
Member
And that is fine but I think we can all agree, the Ravage combo feels and looks terrible/boring. Like DarkCastle stated, you can hit the button manually but it doesn't have that one to one feel. Pressing the attack button in Duscae is unsatisfying to me.
Yes outside of armiger, short range warping in order follow flying targets in air, makes a lot of sense. That's what they need to aim for.
This can still be a possibility, but they need to flatten out the sloppy feel.
I already stated that Noctis is not in Armiger mode in that gif that's him on the normal while in the air, you can tell because he isn't switching weapons that entire time.
The on ground combat looked way smoother in e3 2013,
http://gfycat.com/GrandioseAlertAmethystinepython
Perhaps with Avalanche's support they can fix level streaming to the point where we can have free warping back. I could imagine it similar to Rico's grapple in Just Cause, being useful for both combat and traversal(horizontally and vertically).
xxdoshiyarovexx
Member
Clearly you don't appreciate Roen's style, but FFXIII design aesthetics wouldn't work in FFXV's world
I think you mistake your personal preferences with objective fact. FFXV won't please everyone. That's fine. FFXIII didn't please everyone either. Yeah, and that means the character designs too. I'd say especially the character designs.
Look at these goobers. For every Lightning and Fang, there is an entire narrow hallway full of weirdos like this.
Ugh, I'm so glad ff13's sense of style is not in FFXV. No disrespect, but I really do not like these design at all.
Supermanisdead
Member
FF15 has a few cool designs, but the 2 best ones have been removed rofl. The main cast are dull as always, but I was always hopeful about the King and Stella. They both had a unique look, but they've been edited to be yet more generic anime fare.
I just want warping outside of combat.
That can open many level design options.
But yeah, even manual, short-warp in combat could be useful, but it looks like a high-end skill to me.
I was more than ok with Duscae combat, considering it was 1)with the majority of features missing 2)still very far from the release
Its actually the part i'm least worried about.
That can open many level design options.
But yeah, even manual, short-warp in combat could be useful, but it looks like a high-end skill to me.
I was more than ok with Duscae combat, considering it was 1)with the majority of features missing 2)still very far from the release
Its actually the part i'm least worried about.
chozen
Member
I don't think they need Avalanche's help for the air combat, Square honestly can do it themselves, I mean they did it fine on Ebony XV Gameplay, and it looks smooth there.
I thought that was exactly how it was going to look on Luminous but better, and it seems the old combat they had got sloppy on Luminous. We have yet to even see air combat though...
BossDarkseid
Member
So Regis grows his hair a bit (still wears the suit under ceremonial robes) and ...oh what the hell
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Tsk, perhaps they should go back to the drawing board, ditch the whole crush, ravage, vanquish thing and let us manually switch weapons and have that accurate one to one button press action. But that would mean the game will really never be released, haha.
They're from Tokyo.
Meet Tokyo street fashion.
Also, only Gladio has tribal tats, and so what? It fits his masculine aesthetic. Is it compensating? Yeah probably, just look at his sword, but it fits him.
Supermanisdead
Member
Sorry, BossDarkseid, he looks like shit. He looks old and dusty.
NoctisVsStar
Member
My main concern is how will one on one human bosses fights work, it needs to smooth and tactical. Not to mention the huge Monsters.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I hope there is at least one Auron-like character in this game.
chozen
Member
As much as I hate Ravage in the string of combos, it does effectively get rid of needing passive skills like combo plus... Can you imagine what happens when we get into air combat? We basically never stop attacking until the enemy dies and we can warp to the next target.
But please I want more focus on the combat being manual 1 to 1 on my button presses, not automated.
But please I want more focus on the combat being manual 1 to 1 on my button presses, not automated.
I hope there is at least one Auron-like character in this game.
Cor will probably fill that role.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
We can only work with what drips of information and media we are give, however we have seen far too little of Luna to start calling her design as 'generic anime fare'.
We only ever saw Stella with long hair and Luna also features a hair down look in a different outfit that they haven't shown yet.
And it can be argued the King has actually been westernised. Seems very Game of Thrones.
Personally I agree that his original design is superior, but again we haven't seen any media of him 15 years later like we did with original Regis.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
It's understandable if you don't like new Regis's look. To say he look more generic anime, you serious? He basically look like a Game of Thrones character now, unless Game of Thrones is an anime to you?
Just wondering, how would that actually work, though? If you mash the buttons in KH, it's still going to go through a certain set of animations.
Ravage does suck, but I dunno what the solution would be.
ShinMaruku
Member
Somebody explain how that chocobo became chocolina?
The problem was it wasn't running on console
. Also I didn't mean help in terms of gameplay.All Avalanche is really there for is to help with level streaming, not mechanics. Square can handle the combat themselves, the problem is technical. When they had free warping, Noctis was moving too fast and the level wasn't loading fast enough on console to keep up. This limited Noctis' movement a lot. Avalanche has mastered level streaming that is fast enough to keep up with Noctis as evidenced by how free Rico's movements are in JC3.
The problem was it wasn't running on console
All Avalanche is really there for is to help with level streaming, not mechanics. Square can handle the combat themselves, the problem is technical. When they had free warping, Noctis was moving too fast and the level wasn't loading fast enough on console to keep up. This limited Noctis movement a lot. Avalanche has mastered level streaming that is fast enough to keep up with Noctis as evidenced by how free Rico's movements are in JC3.
Exactly. Luminous seems to have a streaming issue. This is basically the reason he can't warp outside combat.
Nomura has said the exact same thing with Ebony. The car was too fast for the PS3 to keep up...the damn car!
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
In comparison to his old design - yes.
But I would disagree that his new design is "anime fare" (whatever that means)
Zoe
Member
He's in the same clothes in present day concept art.
It's not anime, it's now just generic western - likely focus tested - blandness.
Luna looks anime though. And her name sounds too close to Yuna and it bothers me.
LouisaFerre
Member
Didn't they say free warping was removed because it was too easy to bug out? It strikes me as a little bizarre because if you're in combat mode in Duscae you can already warp strike in essentially any horizontal direction even if it's not towards an enemy or preset object. By bugging out I assumed that meant something like getting caught in objects.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Well yeah - i strongly agree and it irritates me. Now it's like "HEY LOOK I'M A KING".
Regis Stark.
Winter is Coming - with no release date lolz.
Ugh....
Damerman
Member
Ur argument was shit and it got shot down.There is no saving face. You havent even seen the whole ffxv cast... Chill.
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