orthodoxy1095
Banned
I still don't understand how Duscae's combat could be so bleugh. The game had tons of flaws, but somehow I found the gameplay of Type-0 to be way more engaging. Weird regression to see under Tabata.
Final Fantasy XV Gamescom Active Time Report - CNN reporting live from disaster scene
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Dark_castle
Junior Member
Maybe it's just me, but I thought XV's combat was pretty decent. Though at this point, I think they could ditch aerial combo and go for something more grounded and methodical, I wouldn't mind that. For instance, I prefer the idea of manually climbing on monsters ala Dragon's Dogma more than warping around it.
What? I freaking loved Duscae's combat system, one of, if not the, best ARPG combat system i ever put my hands on, especially considering the competition in the genre.
Sure, it needs polishing, calibrating and it has missing features, but there's an immense potential in what i played.
I'm more than faithful they'll deliver on that front, even on magic and aerial combat.
If they reach what they've shown in TGS ATR, with some good AI management and whatnot, it'll probably become my favourite battle system ever.
Sure, it needs polishing, calibrating and it has missing features, but there's an immense potential in what i played.
I'm more than faithful they'll deliver on that front, even on magic and aerial combat.
If they reach what they've shown in TGS ATR, with some good AI management and whatnot, it'll probably become my favourite battle system ever.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It may be arguably decent, but one of the best? Absolutely not in any way.
I'll wait to make my final judgement once they add magic stuff in, but within Duscae I found it absolutely awful as an experience. Ponderous and imprecise.
nelsonroyale
Member
I enjoyed the combat, bare bones though it was. It controls well and the animations are probably the best in the genre. But it is bare bones, it needs to deliver more in terms of encouraging strategy...I am hoping the magic systems is very developed. It has to be given this is supposed to be an FF game...
Supermanisdead
Member
It's just way too repetitive. The weapon deck thing is a snoozefest. Let me pick a few different weapons and manually switch them with triggers or different buttons. Or at least include heavy/light attacks and even the simplest form of combos would greatly enhance it. Right now it's too slow, which would be fine if it was methodical or had any depth, but it's slow and shallow.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I just want a decent jump arc and aerial combat although it looks like the combat will be primarily grounded. That would be a great question for the next ATR.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yep, they have serious problems with the camera and the flow of the action before they can even think about aerial combat.
Also the special combo attacks with other members looks so silly.
chozen
Member
As of Duscae 2.0, I can say I am really dissatisfied with the combat. I like the changes but overall what they have is pretty bad.
As said before it doesn't have that One to One feel when you press the attack button, Tabata may say you can button mash but it doesn't feel proper. The automatic attack overlaps my manual presses and I can feel it.
Another big issue is the Ravage part of the combo is monotonous, animation gets so repetitive and enemies sometimes just walk away as you are hacking and slashing they don't even stagger.
Air combat is still in I'm sure, How can you assume this game is going to have grounded combat if we are to fight giants? Are we going to attack their feet? They all don't even have feet Leviathan is on water you can't even climb it or attack it on the ground.
Once again Tabata said they are saving air combat last cause it's the "easiest part to do"
As said before it doesn't have that One to One feel when you press the attack button, Tabata may say you can button mash but it doesn't feel proper. The automatic attack overlaps my manual presses and I can feel it.
Another big issue is the Ravage part of the combo is monotonous, animation gets so repetitive and enemies sometimes just walk away as you are hacking and slashing they don't even stagger.
Air combat is still in I'm sure, How can you assume this game is going to have grounded combat if we are to fight giants? Are we going to attack their feet? They all don't even have feet Leviathan is on water you can't even climb it or attack it on the ground.
Once again Tabata said they are saving air combat last cause it's the "easiest part to do"
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I dunno man. You think there's going to be two giant serpents in the game?
Damerman
Member
I agree, but you still sound fanatical.
NoctisVsStar
Member
As of Duscae 2.0, I can say I am really dissatisfied with the combat. I like the changes but overall what they have is pretty bad.
As said before it doesn't have that One to One feel when you press the attack button, Tabata may say you can button mash but it doesn't feel proper. The automatic attack overlaps my manual presses and I can feel it.
Another big issue is the Ravage part of the combo is monotonous, animation gets so repetitive and enemies sometimes just walk away as you are hacking and slashing they don't even stagger.
Air combat is still in I'm sure, How can you assume this game is going to have grounded combat if we are to fight giants? Are we going to attack their feet? They all don't even have feet Leviathan is on water you can't even climb it or attack it on the ground.
Once again Tabata said they are saving air combat last cause it's the "easiest part to do"
I hope you're right.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Yup after being refreshed on it the combat system still needs a fuck ton of work. Quite dissatisfying and it will get ripped apart in the reviews. Needs to be more KH without going full KH.
And by air combos all I mean is being able to jump higher/double jump and chain a few attacks together before falling back to the ground.
And by air combos all I mean is being able to jump higher/double jump and chain a few attacks together before falling back to the ground.
NoctisVsStar
Member
True, I mean we aren't even asking for juggles or launchers.
chozen
Member
A good question for the next ATR is "Whos choice was it to change Stella into Luna, Nomuras or Tabatas?"
Why hasn't this been asked yet? Straight forward answers would always be better than beating around the bush, and hiding the development if their goal is to be transparent with us.
Damerman
Member
To be fair you dont get to see the depth and methodical nature of most FF combat systems till you are well into the game.
The worst aspect of the combat system easily the context based blocking and reposting. It's too repetitive and closed ended. There needs to be a dedicated block button for heavy attacks and we can just hold the evade button for light attacks.
From what i played so far, there is a lot of potential. They just need to keep the players engagement in mind instead of focusing on flash.
NoctisVsStar
Member
The name Nomura is practically banned, Tabata and Co. will go out their way to not mention him.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I don't get how the development team doesn't really see the issues with it enough to notice that they need to change it drastically (as opposed to character models...). It doesn't even look good. Combat looks clunky as ****.
chozen
Member
I realized that, I remember when they were reading out the credits of the name and they got to Tetsuya and they said "Of course we all know Nomura san the Original visionary and concept of XV" blah, they had these really unsettling faces at that moment when they mentioned him but they had to.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I think thats pretty obvious. Anything that has been changed is Tabata's decision. If Square Enix wanted this to be Versus, they would have kept Nomura on the project. They feel comfortable with Tabata's vision of the game, and Nomura is the perfect candidate for FF7remake.
I dont know about you, but i think Tabata's XV and Nomura's FF7remake is a better outcome than Versus XIII.
It was implied in the ATR before this one that Tabata made that choice, since he talked about getting Nojima's blessing to make the changes and stuff like that. Would be interesting to hear more about it though.
The combat system is by far the worst part of the game imo. It's difficult to aim at the enemies, they are often outside your view area and specially against fast enemies it gets even more annoying. That was basically the main reason why I never finished Duscae.
Not sure if I didn't properly play the game, but Noctis takes too much time to attack. Perhaps with different weapons and better customization we can mitigate this problem, but they should really speed up things a bit to make it more enjoyable.
Not sure if I didn't properly play the game, but Noctis takes too much time to attack. Perhaps with different weapons and better customization we can mitigate this problem, but they should really speed up things a bit to make it more enjoyable.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Yeah, I understand all the complaints on Duscae's combat. No disagreement from me, though I did have some good time with it. Has potential, but also has a lot of serious issues that could prevent it from being genuinely good. Part of me hope that they rework certain aspect like the weapon deck to make the combat less reliant on setting up and instead just let us switch between 2 to 3 weapons at a time freely mid combat, and perform the standard 3 hit(+) combo, no button holding for that precise attack feel.
But can't see that happening at this point.
But can't see that happening at this point.
Damerman
Member
There needs to be a hot key for a deck switch. I only found myself going back and forth between two decks.
did you play 2.0?
TheGreatLugia
Banned
Both could end up well, but I'd personally sacrifice Tabata's FFXV and FFVIIr if it gave us Nomura's FFXV and Type-Next instead. I'm more interested in Nomura's FFXV than I am in FFVIIr, and I'm also more interested in Type-Next than I am in Tabata's FFXV. That way both directors would get to work on their passion projects instead of what's going on now with FFXV.
Yes I did. I never really played the 1.0 version, so I have no idea how much worse that was, but to me it still has a lot of room for improvement.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I hope Nomura gets to make a "bloodborne" new IP spiritual successor to Versus XIII one day.
Agreed. the swords auto switching is bad design especially considering some enemies are weak to a curtain sword and strong against the others. and it's sometimes almost impossible to hit a moving enemy(especially the dogs like monsters) without teleporting until they stop.
chozen
Member
This is true, the two are working on things I feel they don't even have much of a passion for right now.
I wish they halted Versus development rather than use it's content and characters for a basically different game. Now we will never get these characters and this world back cause it's already used and that's a shame. Noctis is like Nomuras son.
I've only seen videos of 2.0, but it looks a lot deeper than what 1.0 had. It was very very barebones. So if they update it even further, (and we still haven't seen magic) then i'm sure it will be fine.
TheGreatLugia
Banned
Nomura actually sounds really excited and happy to be directing FFVIIr, but I'm sure he still misses Versus. I'd say Nomura is definitely more interested in directing FFVIIr than Tabata is in directing FFXV.
chozen
Member
It's poop compared to KH2 or even KH1 in some instances.
Nomura didn't even know he was directing 7R till that trailer aired. How much did he really care?
He must dream of Versus every now and then and have nightmares lol
Damerman
Member
Exactly this. In kh 1 the jump was ugly as fuck and sora only had one downward aerial swing. Then it slowly developed into one of the greatest action RPGs of all time... At least it was the foundation for one of the best arpg combat systems ever(BBS).
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I honestly don't know what they're thinking.
The Last One
Member
TheGreatLugia
Banned
Those supid headlines are still getting people confused. >.>
Nomura has been actively directing FFVIIr for over a year. The video that made Nomura realize he was directing the game wasn't the E3 trailer but an internal presentation that was shown when development started in 2014.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
I am curious how the villain will look like, Tabata confirmed that it will be the best villain in the Final Fantasy franchise and he also said we didn't see him yet in the trailers, so its probably going to be a Kefka looking person and not evil old guy we seen in the previous trailers.
Probably his dad.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
Um... where did you hear this?
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I would disagree. Tabata was a handheld director and is now directing a mainline Final Fantasy game, this is the best thing that he could have hoped for.
Before the FF7 announcement Nomura was talking about his "burning anger" from being taken off of XV. From his recent interviews he seems back to his old self, remember he was one of the key members of the original FF7 team. Kitase hand picked him for the project and he did that because he wants to see his vision for this game. It's going to be incredible.
Damerman
Member
I've been speculating in my mind that luna is the main villain. I dunno. I feel like she is going to explode with revenge after being subject to a bunch of shit out of her control.
BossDarkseid
Member
False...he didn't know he was Director until an internal credit/take of the trailer went round. The fact he's said so much about ideas he's got for it speaks volumes. He may dream of his concept for Versus from a gameplay perspective etc or even from a story perspective but he wouldn't be the first or last person to have that sorta thing dashed.
artsi
Member
I'm sure there was one somewhere already but I didn't find it, so made my own high resolution stitching from this painting, with some minor retouching.
I think it's a very beautiful painting overall.
And now I'm 100% certain that's Titan on the right, compare his chin to this one: http://i.imgur.com/NRNwth7.png
I think it's a very beautiful painting overall.
And now I'm 100% certain that's Titan on the right, compare his chin to this one: http://i.imgur.com/NRNwth7.png
The Last One
Member
I'm not sure he's "burning anger" was about being out of the FF XV development either. He just said he wanted Sora to have the most difficult tasks in KH III when compared to the rest of the series.
Seriously guys, you should stop trying to decide who's more passionate for their projects, you don't know anything about this and it sounds disrespectful saying whatever you want to say about this topic.
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