Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD

You know what? It's just as fucking fuck frustrating as coming to the dark world and getting "what happened in the past 10 years" being told by this fucking Jared.

I mean, THAT'S how you're gonna tell me the leader of Nif died? A dude that I was looking forward to meeting for 8+ years died offscreen like he was absolute shit? I should've known considering there was no footage whatsoever of him after Kingsglaive-scene. What a fucking pity, ;6,kr7'foropdwlldowlxkwplfp
 
How/when did the white dog die?

Old lady before Tenebrae tells you something like "welp she dead" and that's it.

You know what? It's just as fucking fuck frustrating as coming to the dark world and getting "what happened in the past 10 years" being told by this fucking Jared.

I mean, THAT'S how you're gonna tell me the leader of Nif died? A dude that I was looking forward to meeting for 8+ years died offscreen like he was absolute shit? I should've known considering there was no footage whatsoever of him after Kingsglaive-scene. What a fucking pity, ;6,kr7'foropdwlldowlxkwplfp

:D it's such a shitshow at the second half
 
I do hope Square doesn't go overboard in reaction to the, well, mixed reaction and decides to play it safe with like zero character deaths in XVI. I like my stories to have consequences. I realize death isn't the only way to achieve that, but in games with (attempted) epic scale, the stakes work really well if some of your cast don't make it home alive.

It doesn't work without proper development. It needs to be earned. But y'know, in the entertainment industry the loud noises disgruntled fans make tend to drown out the rest of the discussion. Over the next couple of years, there's going to be a lot of "LOL KILL EVERYONE" without addressing that the problem here is that it isn't earned. I know many of you are (wisely) pointing this out, but I think the internet is going to explode with complaints over the deaths themselves, not bothering to outline the reason they usually fell flat.

Agreed. Heck, ff9 is considered probably the most light hearted title and that game has death up the wazoo.
 
Also Anita's ultimately says:

"Writters are using "Women in refrigerators" trope to literally trade the female character's life for the benefit of a male hero's story arc"

That's what happens with Luna, outside of her very poor personality, her motivations and all, her actual death being brutal or not (many examples in the same website, aren't strictly brutal), and whatever else, this is what eaxctly defines a female being fridged.
It has been shown that Luna's death doesn't fit that scenario at all though. Ardyn's motivations were not to get a rise out of Noctis, but to stop Luna from continuing to get in the way of his plan. Noctis didn't benefit from it at all and if anything, suffered more. He was broken. You yourself are downplaying the role of Luna and ignoring the actual reason for her death in the story to fit this narrative.

The definition you are insisting on could fit just about any death ever. By devaluing it such a degree, you are making the statement and the trope itself meaningless.

It makes her defenseless and utimately at the expense of his enemy, all the fight she does is some cure bullshit, that ends on a slap, btw. In the whole scene, she dosn't appear a capable being or a danger to Ardyn. In the quote of male heroes that also dies, justifying Luna's death, they always put a fight.

So having courage, is not how (male) superheroes tend to die.

But, basically the next 2 chapters is about her death. And ultimately it does further his journey.
That's because she wasn't a danger to Ardyn; nobody was. The dude was an immortal psychopath with magnificent bastard level qualities. Say she did fight back. What happens? She stabs him with the Trident, he goes tut tut and kills her anyway. All that would do is continue to show how screwed she and anyone else who fought him was.

The key word you used was that it is how male heroes tend to die. This isn't an absolute and male heroes death's shouldn't be treated as being intrinsically better just because they died fighting. That doesn't make any sense and just props then up on an artificial pedestal.

Lastly, the next 2 chapters were about how broken the group was after how shit everything went. It's even pointed out multiple times that her death isn't the only problem and that Noctis needs to get over it because everyone is suffering, not just him. What ultimately furthers his journey is the efforts of everyone he cares about, not just Luna. It was not her death that allowed him to persevere, it was the reminder of what he and everyone else was fighting for that brought him out if his shade.

With all the potion chugging mess I wish this game did have a white mage
lol you and me both dude. The closest fit to that is Ignis with his regroup ability and that's about it. Would've been cool if Luna joined up.
 
You know what, I don't give a fuck anymore regarding deaths. After Aeris, I was done crying over someones death in FF-games. Fuck me and fuck me harder
 
Agreed. Heck, ff9 is considered probably the most light hearted title and that game has death up the wazoo.

I don't know about IX being the most lighthearted, personally, but I do see where you're coming from. It sure pulls the lighthearted beats off with aplomb, and there are quite a few of them.

Good point bringing it up. It does the deaths pretty well.

You know what, I don't give a fuck anymore regarding deaths. After Aeris, I was done crying over someones death in FF-games. Fuck me and fuck me harder

Damn straight.

I think.
 
You know what? It's just as fucking fuck frustrating as coming to the dark world and getting "what happened in the past 10 years" being told by this fucking Jared.

I mean, THAT'S how you're gonna tell me the leader of Nif died? A dude that I was looking forward to meeting for 8+ years died offscreen like he was absolute shit? I should've known considering there was no footage whatsoever of him after Kingsglaive-scene. What a fucking pity, ;6,kr7'foropdwlldowlxkwplfp

You don't find out that Iedolas died in Chapter XIV, you actually fight him in Chapter XIII when you get reunited with the bros. He was transformed into the daemon Foras you encounter several times during that chapter and when you beat him, he has lines of dialogue.

If you mean Verstael, then yeah, he doesn't even appear.
 
LOL

Tidus death >>>>>>>>>> Aeris death!!!!!!!!!1110912330192301923
I didn't consider Tidus' death as a death

You don't find out that Iedolas died in Chapter XIV, you actually fight him in Chapter XIII when you get reunited with the bros. He was transformed into the daemon Foras you encounter several times during that chapter and when you beat him, he has lines of dialogue.

If you mean Verstael, then yeah, he doesn't even appear.
Holy shit, I'm out. That red demon was him? Seriously, I'm out
 
I do hope Square doesn't go overboard in reaction to the, well, mixed reaction and decides to play it safe with like zero character deaths in XVI. I like my stories to have consequences. I realize death isn't the only way to achieve that, but in games with (attempted) epic scale, the stakes work really well if some of your cast don't make it home alive.

It doesn't work without proper development. It needs to be earned. But y'know, in the entertainment industry the loud noises disgruntled fans make tend to drown out the rest of the discussion. Over the next couple of years, there's going to be a lot of "LOL KILL EVERYONE" without addressing that the problem here is that it isn't earned. I know many of you are (wisely) pointing this out, but I think the internet is going to explode with complaints over the deaths themselves, not bothering to outline the reason they usually fell flat.

Killing characters off is the easiest way to elicit an emotional response from the audience. For all the people who are meh, 10x that amount will be crying and falling over themselves over how emotional and transcendental the experience was. It's so easy. Look at what happened with The Walking Dead recently. Killing characters off arbitrarily is the saving grace of this games narrative.

What Square needs to do is strip down all the setting fuckery and write a decent story
 
Killing characters off is the easiest way to elicit an emotional response from people from the audience. For all the people who are meh, 10x that amount will be crying and falling over themselves over how emotional and transcendental the experience was. Killing characters off arbitrarily is the saving grace of this games narrative.

What Square needs to do is strip down all the setting fuckery and write a decent story

I agree with you. I just worry that Square will go reactive here and take the wrong message, avoiding character deaths in future titles. I've actually seen this happen with another developer, lol.
 
I didn't consider Tidus' death as a death


Holy shit, I'm out. That red demon was him? Seriously, I'm out

Yes, it was him. Gladio even says that you can recognize Iedolas' face when fighting him.
I think the actual demon model didn't have Iedolas' face tho lol
 
Mate seriously turn subtitles on!! You need it know it was him and it also aids in remembering Jared as you would see his name when he says his dialogue!
It really could've been explained better... I mean come on, I'm looking at Youtube videos of the fight now and reading the comments; most people are saying they had no idea they were fighting him either.

Japanese + subs.

Edit; they say this during the fight? Too busy playing the game, I don't read subs during it.
 
I do hope Square doesn't go overboard in reaction to the, well, mixed reaction and decides to play it safe with like zero character deaths in XVI. I like my stories to have consequences. I realize death isn't the only way to achieve that, but in games with (attempted) epic scale, the stakes work really well if some of your cast don't make it home alive.

It doesn't work without proper development. It needs to be earned. But y'know, in the entertainment industry the loud noises disgruntled fans make tend to drown out the rest of the discussion. Over the next couple of years, there's going to be a lot of "LOL KILL EVERYONE" without addressing that the problem here is that it isn't earned. I know many of you are (wisely) pointing this out, but I think the internet is going to explode with complaints over the deaths themselves, not bothering to outline the reason they usually fell flat.
The problem isn't character deaths from what I have been reading? it's that there is no emotional attachments to the characters and it's even worse with offscreen character deaths in some situations. I haven't played the game, but this is the impression I get from reading this thread.
 
320


Blond haired guy, has fraternal issues. Joins a military army in order to fulfill his revenge. / Blond Haired guy, his mother's death could have been avoided by the protagonist's father, loses an arm during an operation, is transplanted a brand new arm with special powers which ends up taking over his body

E3-2013-Kojima-Nomura.jpg

I wouldn't mind a FF directed by Kojima.
 
Finished the game last night, feeling pretty similar to the rest of you about that second half. I mean it would be passable if Chapter 13 was fixed but overall, the story just was not well explained and overall felt rushed. Not to mention Luna was incredibly underdeveloped for a character we were supposed to feel genuinely sad about. A few extra meaningful cutscenes and more screen time would have helped characterize her a bit more. On the plus side, the open world is fantastic and I'm really digging the endgame so far. Also, Ardyn turned out to be a pretty good villain...I think the ending was overall satisfying but I really hope they don't decide to make sequels to this particular game. It should be a one and done. If anything maybe a prequel back to when Regis was alive featuring Nyx or something along those lines...but there shouldn't really be anything after this. Looking forward to NG+ and the DLC's.
 
The problem isn't character deaths from what I have been reading? it's that there is no emotional attachments to the characters and it's even worse with offscreen character deaths in some situations. I haven't played the game, but this is the impression I get from reading this thread.

I think I might not have conveyed my feelings very well in that post. I'm not disagreeing with this consensus at all.

I agree wholeheartedly, in fact. My concern is that the loud noises on the internet in relation to fan dissatisfaction with XV's narrative will just say "EVERYBODY DIES LOL FK THIS GAME" and Square will see that feedback and think that a core reason XV didn't click with people is that characters died.

Not the truth, which is that the character deaths didn't do much for so many people because they weren't well-developed characters. Basically, I think we just need to make sure Square understands -- should they even listen, of course -- that they shouldn't stop swinging for tragic elements in their stories, they just need to actually develop the damn cast.
 
In case anyone missed it, Ravus was actually died twice!

I agree with you. I just worry that Square will go reactive here and take the wrong message, avoiding character deaths in future titles. I've actually seen this happen with another developer, lol.

That does seem like a possiblity but I also get the feeling that Tabata's team had to be as efficient as possible which means killing a bunch of characters for speedy plot resolutions.

What developer are you talking about anyway?
 
It's pretty lame that Nyx is hanging from the ceiling as well. Dude evaporated into ashes. His physical body was no more. The same thing that happened to Noctis when he turned to ashes in the crystal.
 
I'm not really oposed to characters dying but Noc sacrifice felt a little forced. They play the same card than in Kingsglaive, basically get a shit ton of power to kill the badie but you die from it.
Honestly it would be better to him just die a natural way from the fight against Ardyn.



For example in FFX (spoilering just in case)
Tidus death made more sense because he wasn't real in that world.

It's pretty lame that Nyx is hanging from the ceiling as well. Dude evaporated into ashes. His physical body was no more. The same thing that happened to Noctis when he turned to ashes in the crystal.

I take all of these hanging bodies are ilusions, not the real bodies.
 
What developer are you talking about anyway?

I get the sense that BioWare went very safe mode with Dragon Age: Inquisition's narrative consequences as a direct response to criticisms involved with Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2. It keeps an upbeat pace without any high sense of loss the whole way through, despite trying to convey that sense of loss at a certain point in the game.

I like that game, mind you, but there's so much I could write about this subject. It needed something darker.
 
It's pretty lame that Nyx is hanging from the ceiling as well. Dude evaporated into ashes. His physical body was no more. The same thing that happened to Noctis when he turned to ashes in the crystal.

Pretty sure it is an illusion. When Ardyn leaves the room, the illusions disappear.
 
I do hope Square doesn't go overboard in reaction to the, well, mixed reaction and decides to play it safe with like zero character deaths in XVI. I like my stories to have consequences. I realize death isn't the only way to achieve that, but in games with (attempted) epic scale, the stakes work really well if some of your cast don't make it home alive.
A game without major character deaths would actually be pretty bold and interesting.

But yeah, that'd be missing the point.
 
Did they ever really explain Ardyn's motives here? Was it revenge? What happened with him wasn't super clear, although I never watched Kingsglaive...

I thought the story was a mess, but had potential. It's like someone wrote a pretty good fantasy story and they like tore up half of the pages and made it into a game.
 
It really could've been explained better... I mean come on, I'm looking at Youtube videos of the fight now and reading the comments; most people are saying they had no idea they were fighting him either.

Japanese + subs.

Edit; they say this during the fight? Too busy playing the game, I don't read subs during it.
For me it said it at the end of the fight as he dies and then says some final dying words in anger or something lol.

And I only knew it was him as the subtitle had his name as the 'dialogue speaker'.

That's the only reason I knew.

I am being half sarcastic with you and not really defending the game btw...the storytelling is worst ever :P
 
A game without major character deaths would actually be pretty bold and interesting.

But yeah, that'd be missing the point.

It's happened before, I'd argue. FFVIII had
Ultimecia and Deling (lol) go down, but who else? Well, okay, Adel.

Maybe you mean not even any of the antagonists going down?
 
You know what, I don't give a fuck anymore regarding deaths. After Aeris, I was done crying over someones death in FF-games. Fuck me and fuck me harder


I was a wreck when Aeris/Aerith (?) Died. She was Cloud's date for the Gold Saucer and a main stay in my main party.

I was in denial the rest of my first play threw. I swore there was a way to bring her back that I did everything in that game.
 
It's happened before, I'd argue. FFVIII had
Ultimecia and Deling (lol) go down, but who else? Well, okay, Adel.

Maybe you mean not even any of the antagonists going down?
Touché about 8 I suppose.

I was thinking of no antagonist or protagonist deaths. It'd be pretty weird actually but kind of interesting to see that made.
 
I don't know about IX being the most lighthearted, personally, but I do see where you're coming from. It sure pulls the lighthearted beats off with aplomb, and there are quite a few of them.

Good point bringing it up. It does the deaths pretty well.



Damn straight.

I think.

Just another reason FFIX is the best game in the series. And the whole lighthearted thing I seriously think just stems from the character design lmao. FFIX is only lighthearted for about the first third of the first disc. People see more chibi-esque characters and go "childish/kiddy/lighthearted." It's like with Wind Waker and yet Link stabs Ganondorf in the head to finish him off.
 
It really could've been explained better... I mean come on, I'm looking at Youtube videos of the fight now and reading the comments; most people are saying they had no idea they were fighting him either.

Japanese + subs.

Edit; they say this during the fight? Too busy playing the game, I don't read subs during it.

So you put the game in Japanese, a language I'm assuming you don't understand fluently, and then refused to read the subs? As many issues as that reveal had, I think this one is mostly your fault.
 
So you put the game in Japanese, a language I'm assuming you don't understand fluently, and then refused to read the subs? As many issues as that reveal had, I think this one is mostly your fault.

Not only that, but it's in the game. Like they tak about it during the fight itself and he solidifies it right after the fight. It wasn't done in the best way but let's not pretend the game hid it.
 
I really liked the story in the game. It helped a lot that I watched both Kingsglaive and Brotherhood after chapter one, though. I think that added the right amount of context at the right time.

I won't defend it as flawless by any means, but I was able to string enough of the missing pieces together that I was satisfied with it.

There was some stuff that wasn't explained that I liked not being explained (such as Ravus just being dead). My biggest problem with Final Fantasy storytelling is that the majority of the dialogue is expository, but this game (perhaps to it's detriment) just let you stumble on things that happened without having to beat you over the head with the hows and whys. I don't know if it was done that way intentionally, but I liked it. We knew the things that Noctis saw and heard and not much more. The only thing that we missed was the knowledge of the ring and the crystal that Noctis already had that we didn't.

I liked it. I have no real complaints.
 
Dead General Strikes down the King is a Mark, and its one of the strongest enemies in the game at level 110. Is this Glauca? He has a Yojimbo model but perhaps SE was lazy, lol.
 
Just another reason FFIX is the best game in the series. And the whole lighthearted thing I seriously think just stems from the character design lmao. FFIX is only lighthearted for about the first third of the first disc. People see more chibi-esque characters and go "childish/kiddy/lighthearted." It's like with Wind Waker and yet Link stabs Ganondorf in the head to finish him off.

I'd consider the use of summons as WMDs, the constant questioning of existentialism, and the genocide of 4 societies to be a lot darker than guy stabs guy in head. lol
 
Your cheery picking quotes from the site. And not grabbing the full definition. Your definition is literally every character death ever. Here's what it means in more than one sentence:



Aerith and Luna do not die for the SOLE PURPOSE of affecting another character. Their deaths had larger story implications and reasons for their deaths. Character's being affected by their deaths is an obvious byproduct.

Fridging and having deaths having larger implications are not mutually exclusive things, good person. Not even close. Writers tend to justify fridging with the excuses you've used, including "oh yeah, them being alive would get in the way of the villain's plans", despite that being doubly true of the main protagonist. In fact, you neglect that had Aerith not died, as a plot device, that just furthers the story whilst serving as a motivational tool for the male hero, she wouldn't have been able to bolster lifestream, which further screwed Sephiroth's plot over, thus contradicting his motive to kill her. The fact that women as heroines are disproportionately killed as a plot device is what forced the coining of the term in the first place.
I can candidly say i haven't played ffxv, but it seems you have, so let me ask you:

Did Luna actually have agency? Did any of her actions aside from dying move the plot along? Could she be replaced with a potato for most of her screen time? Did she largely exist as a motive for the guy to do hero things? The fact that her death was narratively rationalised doesn't negate that she was fridged. The fact that she may have displayed a modicum of agency for two seconds doesn't overshadow the rest. Only you can answer these since you've played the game.

Going back and forh about the semantics of frodging without adressing it at it's core concept and how it is applied is a bit dissengenuous. It seems to me that this Luna had an item for Noctis, then gives the thing to him, then dies. If her death has more of a narrative point than her even being alive, there seems to be a huge issue with her development too. Staying in the confines of one video or two from Anita and a paragraph isn't all-encompassing of how the trope has been applied in a multitude of ways.

People often falsely equate men dying with women being fridged, despite the popsided and disproportionate rate at which women are killed off for the sale of plot or male development. It isn't the same dynamic, nor does it carry the same context. In a medium where what, 10 percent of the leads are women, there's a huge paradigm not being discussed here. For every dead guy, there are a thousand male heroes with agency and plot power. We can't say the same for the other party.
 
The more I play of the game... The more I think about it....the more I hate it. I think I despise this fucking game. Seriously.

Can I get my money back?

I'm in the same boat. There are definitely parts I like, but as a whole, the game is seriously awful. Became my biggest gaming disappointment ever.
 
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