mansoor1980
Member
sega-CD am cry
-
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Final Fight MD - No Sega CD Required!
- Thread starter mansoor1980
- Start date
sega-CD am cry
cireza
Member
I don't see how this makes the SEGA-CD version bad or whatever. SEGA-CD game was released 31 years ago and we could enjoy it for all this time. It had all 3 characters, 2 players simultaneously, a stellar soundtrack, excellent gameplay etc... It was, and still is, an amazing port.
This new MD port is certainly great, but it would have never existed back then because of the ROM size has most probably reached beyond 32 Meg. I also find some color choices not great on sprites, especially when using too much black. Maybe this is faithful to the arcade ? SEGA-CD game had a good effort around the palette for the time as well.
So no, in 1993, we would never have the Final Fight MD game you see here, which further justifies the benefit of the SEGA-CD add-on.
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mansoor1980
Member
the rom is not going beyond 32 megabits
cireza
Member
The game is not complete, let's wait and see.
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mansoor1980
Member
acc to the video it will be roughly around 32 megabits when finished.
s_mirage
Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see this and it's impressive work, but Cireza's still right; it would never have existed back in the '90s even at 32 Meg. Realistically a 32Mb ROM = '95 release or later (SSF2 was an outlier, MK2 could have done with a 32Mb ROM but even a game that popular didn't get one in '94). No sane publisher would have sprung for one for a port of Final Fight in '95, and I doubt it would have got more than 16Mb in '93 or '94 (Final Fight 2 didn't even get that).
Though it's got a few flaws, the CD version's still a good port, and the soundtrack rocks!
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March Climber
Member
rabbity-thing
Member
My thought too. I had the Sega CD release when it was still new and even back then, it couldn't keep up with Streets of Rage 2.
Gambit2483
Member
Badlucktroll
Member
ReyBrujo
Member
Agreed that this just wouldn't have existed as-is. The know-how is immensely different, people got much better tools for programming and debugging, there are much more optimized libraries, there isn't a timeline to fulfill, etc. Also, from what I understand by the time the game was released on SNES (1991-2) the largest Sega cartridge size was 4 Mbit (whereas SNES had 4x the size).
ReBurn
Gold Member
I love Capcom side scrolling brawlers. I have Final Fight across many systems and collections and I play it often. I was stoked for the SNES version but it had terrible slowdown and so much was missing. This project looks awesome. Better than the Sega CD version for sure. It would be cool if it ever released on a cart.
RAIDEN1
Member
Then again, this was about as close as you would get to a Streets of Rage CD....which again if done right would have done wonders for the popularity of the add-on
Judge Magister
Member
Cool but i need Sega CD superior soundtrack.
There are already hacks that correct the colors of Sega CD port too.
There are already hacks that correct the colors of Sega CD port too.
s_mirage
Member
That's not right. Strider released on an 8Mb cart in 1990, same as the Super Famicom version of Final Fight, but came out a couple of months earlier.
I've played ithis FinalFigth Hack natively on my original Megadrive with a cartridge loader+SD.
It's incredible how much juice MD still had to squeeze out. It's also true that part of it is a product of the advances in technology and development techniques that didn't exist at that time.
For those interested, there is also the incredible version of Mortal Kombat 1, incredibly improved compared to the original (graphics, effects, sound, IQ, animations, arena details..)
Mortal Kombat "Arcade" (hack)
Comparative vs original
It's incredible how much juice MD still had to squeeze out. It's also true that part of it is a product of the advances in technology and development techniques that didn't exist at that time.
For those interested, there is also the incredible version of Mortal Kombat 1, incredibly improved compared to the original (graphics, effects, sound, IQ, animations, arena details..)
Mortal Kombat "Arcade" (hack)
Comparative vs original
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The arcade Final fight is only about 3 MB so a 4MB cart should more than cover it
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mansoor1980
Member
SOR2 is miles better than final fight ,
cireza
Member
Redbook Audio doesn't count ?
nkarafo
Member
If that's the only enhancement over what you get with a regular Mega Drive no, it's not enough.
nkarafo
Member
I don't think any modern homebrew is more advanced than the later 1995/96 Mega Drive games. Stuff like Vectorman, Comix Zone, Adventures of Batman & Robin, Mickey Mania, Sonic 3D, Toy Story, Red Zone, etc are still just as impressive (or better) as the best looking modern aftermarket games.
Except maybe Paprium. But that one doesn't count since it has some extra chips inside the cart to handle additional graphics and audio. And a massive ROM size, well above your typical 4MB limit.
So, it's not like the Mega Drive wasn't properly squeezed during it's final days. You usually see better looking modern homebrew games on consoles that were either hard to develop for or ones that didn't last long enough. That's why you see incredible stuff on the N64 nowadays like the new Mario 64 engine by Kaze (that pushes like 10x the number of polygons and more advanced effects at 60fps), or stuff like DOOM 32X Resurrection on the 32X. There are no such modern equivalents for the Mega Drive because there is not much more left you can squeeze out of it.
What you see here is the result of color/aesthetic changes only. Not engine improvments or some new, revolutionary development technique. And those are still awesome (art direction goes a long way) but it's a different thing.
Even better IMO would be the potential rom size improvments. There are a lot of early, sub 1MB games that could use the 4MB limit treatment. There's a work in progress Ghouls n Ghosts hack that tries to bring the graphics closer to the arcade since the original game was a very early one and held back by it's tiny ROM size. These games can look better by just using more/better assets, kinda like how Neo-Geo games looked better and better as the Rom size increased.
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Team Andromeda
Member
Hardly .
Overlooking if the Final Fight CD team went back to the game with today's knowledge base and compression routines they would be able to make a even better version, like any major developer in the 90s
The Mega CD PCM sound effects are better (they're Arcade perfect) the walking animation is better and so is the rotation effect on the weapons and of course so is the CD DA music
Never mind Mega CD owners were able to play a nearn Arcade perfect version of the game in 1993 for 40 quid . Outside of owing a Sharp 68000 it was the best option for the home..
mansoor1980
Member
walking animation looks the same as sega cd/arcade version to me
consoul
Member
100%. The redbook audio was one of the CD version's key selling points.
cireza
Member
Having a game vs not having anything doesn't count ?
cireza
Member
Certainly not on consoles.
ReBurn
Gold Member
The soundtrack didn't fit for me. It was good music but it wasn't Final Fight.
s_mirage
Member
No it wasn't. That was the arcade launch date.
The console versions were released in mid-94 and were outliers. It's generally regarded that Capcom lost money on them due to the cost of manufacturing the carts and sales being below expectations. I can't think of another Sega cart bigger than 24Mb from '94; they really didn't start showing up before '95 as they were too expensive to manufacture without making a game financially risky.
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cireza
Member
It's in the OP lol
nkarafo
Member
I'm not sure where you are getting at.
The "having a game is better than not having it at all" can be applied to any game on any console. But this is about justifying the price of the hardware you paid money for. I wouldn't care for a straight port of the NES Super Mario Bros on my Sega CD if that's what you are asking. I bought my Sega CD back in the day to see cool graphics.
That's the whole point of this topic. And you have to admit, the vast majority of the Sega CD library could be done on the regular Mega Drive, excluding any additional FMVs and CD audio files. I didn't pay the price of an expensive "next gen" console just to see some added video intros and listen to CD music. Heck, i actually like the chip tunes more in some cases. I wanted better visuals and games that would be impossible on the Mega Drive, and the Sega CD had very few of those. If the Sega CD was actually priced as an addon that simply adds these features, sure. But it was priced as a brand new console.
Now i'm not bashing the CD version of Final Fight. Like i said, at the time of release the extra CD space probably helped not downgrading it as much as other Mega Drive ports like The Punisher for instance. That one looked really bad. So for a 1993 release, Final Fight was worth it.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
lol I didn't see it when I clicked on it.
Team Andromeda
Member
It is more fluid in the Mega CD version imo
chromatic9
Member
Having played the Mega CD version to death as a kid this MD version still doesn't sound right and maybe too saturated and not as smooth and fluid. I don't suppose it's even two player like the Mega CD. It's great in a way how they can get the bigger sprites working on MD as there were so many downgrades from arcades.
mansoor1980
Member
it is 2 player
cireza
Member
Clearly, you don't understand the point. Who gives a shit about having the NES Super Mario Bros on SEGA-CD ? Nobody.
The SEGA-CD was meant to make possible games that were not on the base MegaDrive. Which is precisely the case of Final Fight CD. SEGA-CD was about :
- having more memory to make the game possible at all
- having FMV, videos etc...
- having high quality audio, redbook audio
- having special effects
Final Fight CD checks 2 of these. Capcom or SEGA would have not made the same port on MegaDrive back then, in 1993. And on MD, you do not get the redbook audio. This is a game that is perfectly fine on SEGA-CD and, when considering the context of its release, justified having this add-on.
You fail at proving that the SEGA-CD was pointless when you start listing stuff that, if you ignore them, would make the game possible on the base MegaDrive. And when doing so, you also don't take into account the fact that ROM sizes was hugely constrained back then, and third parties were even more greedy on MegaDrive vs SNES. And even if it was SEGA, we are probably looking at 16 Megs at best (including the music), as stated by
s_mirage
.
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nkarafo
Member
I already said Final Fight CD was a worthy Sega CD release... twice. And i already said myself a regular Mega Drive port would probably be more downgraded in 1993 so i don't know why you point this out to me.
But no, i'm not going to defend the whole console. FMVs suck, FMV based games even more so despite people being fascinated by them at first because they were a new thing. Especially on Mega CD where you get the worst quality FMVs compared to any other platform. And redbook audio, while nice, is not a reason to buy a whole console for. I get the Sega CD probably had the best ports of Mega Drive games in the end (i always liked Earthworm Jim: Special Edition) but again buying a whole new expensive console just to get slightly upgraded versions of games you could already have on the Mega Drive was not worth it.
Unless of course money means nothing to you and you can easily get any new consoIe that comes out, no second thoughts or risk involved. But for me, getting a new console as a teen was a huge investment. And the Mega CD was a bad one, thankfully though i only got a second hand one from a friend so i didn't break the bank.
I don't have to "prove" anything to you, it's my opinion which i seem to share with a lot of people since the console was mostly a failure anyway.
cireza
Member
I still don't know why you brought up this in the discussion here. Totally unrelated, but it must be very important as it was in your very first post. As if the entirety of the add-on's life was summarized by FMV. While this thread is about a game that did not have any, on top of it.
This is definitely a subjective point of view, that many do not share. You find that the Mega-CD was not worth it ? Good. But you are bound to encounter people who think the opposite.
The console being a "failure" is another unproven hit piece of people hating while ignoring the fact that it was properly supported from 1991 to 1996. If it was a failure, SEGA would have dropped it in a heartbeat.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
FF has bigger more impressive characters. But SoR 2 is a much better game than FF. FF also came out in 1989 in the arcade. SoR 2 in 1992 so it had time to improve on the beat em up genre.
It had much better music variety, more interesting characters and more attack moves.
FF CD quality metro slums music is awesome though.
It had much better music variety, more interesting characters and more attack moves.
FF CD quality metro slums music is awesome though.
mansoor1980
Member
they are bigger but the animations in sor2 are far superior
SOR2 might be better than the console ports of Final Fight but arcade Final Fight is the better game. It has a deeper moveset (infinite punch, cross-ups, dash jumping), deeper scoring mechanics (alchemy) and an insanely clever enemy AI that hasn’t been replicated on any belt scroller since. The bad guys actually use teamwork to beat you.
No port of FF has captured the nuances of the arcade game, including this new MD one. I think it was serendipitous that the game turned out the way it did.
No port of FF has captured the nuances of the arcade game, including this new MD one. I think it was serendipitous that the game turned out the way it did.