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Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia |OT|
- Thread starter Draxal
- Start date
OK, the final battle was very cool. Epic stuff.
All in all, I really enjoyed the battles and particularly the summoning of allies by both sides, it kept me on my toes and offered a nice risk/reward in reaching forward to kill powerful cantors quickly. Close-range counter and extended range for high-level archers was cool too, as was the simple forging system- no wasted time with all the extra castle bobbins of Fates.
Some of the characters dialogue was heartwarming stuff (Clive/Mathilda's romance and the dedicated Forsyth's chats with his laid-back pal Python were the highlights IMO). To be honest the main plot in the second half let the writing down for me- bizarre decision after bizarre decision by both Celica and major npcs, plus the horde of damsels in distress that need saving.
Solid entry, definitely one I'll replay.
All in all, I really enjoyed the battles and particularly the summoning of allies by both sides, it kept me on my toes and offered a nice risk/reward in reaching forward to kill powerful cantors quickly. Close-range counter and extended range for high-level archers was cool too, as was the simple forging system- no wasted time with all the extra castle bobbins of Fates.
Some of the characters dialogue was heartwarming stuff (Clive/Mathilda's romance and the dedicated Forsyth's chats with his laid-back pal Python were the highlights IMO). To be honest the main plot in the second half let the writing down for me- bizarre decision after bizarre decision by both Celica and major npcs, plus the horde of damsels in distress that need saving.
Solid entry, definitely one I'll replay.
If you do, you can always use the turnwheel to dial back a few turns, but obviously there's a limit on uses. I quite liked normal/classic later on, the difficulty felt right to me even if the earlier half of the game was a cakewalk.
Elaugaufein
Member
Thanks to the Turnwheel this is probably the easiest FE to play with Permadeath on.
Got Silque? Got Invoke for Silque? If so, INVOKE ALL THE
Spam that every turn and watch as ghost ninjas climb the walls and kill everyone inside. If you have a cleric Faye, you can also Warp, attack, Rescue someone into
Nuibaba
^ That was almost my tactic, though I used Mathilda instead, rode her in to attack Nuibaba and then rescued out.
OK finished this game on hard.
I kind of feel that if you're going to do a remake, you want to fix the undisputed problems that exist in the original.
While the vast improvements in presentation from full voice acting to better character animations/models to more fleshed out story are very welcome, the problems with FE2's gameplay continue to be unsolved:
- Monotonous map design. Practically nothing but empty maps. No chests, saw a door close on me once, only a bunch of goons to dispatch.
- Map objectives being rout 95% of the time. Combined with a lot of maps having choke points swarmed by archers and spell casters, it makes the game a bit of a slog.
- Terrain tiles offering large increases in avoid make physical fights against certain enemies more annoying than they are. Really annoying if you can't finish off that mounted unit who decides to run to the supply cache.
- Most of Celica's later maps are awful. Movement impedance + summoners out of range of warp are just uuuuggghhh.
If they remake FE6/7/9/10 using the same QOL and presentation improvements, I'm excited. But I just wish they did more with regards to the gameplay because FE2 wasn't good back then and isn't that good now.
Yeah, Boey is...not great because of his stats and spell options. The unfortunate problem is that the overall game design seems to clearly pigeon hole units into "good" and "bad" categories. If you can one round enemies with any degree of reliability, you're 100% good. If you have can't one round enemies but have physic/invoke/fortify/warp/rescue, you're 100% good too. Anyone else who can't achieve either of these are sort of dead weight without grinding and favoritism.
I kind of feel that if you're going to do a remake, you want to fix the undisputed problems that exist in the original.
While the vast improvements in presentation from full voice acting to better character animations/models to more fleshed out story are very welcome, the problems with FE2's gameplay continue to be unsolved:
- Monotonous map design. Practically nothing but empty maps. No chests, saw a door close on me once, only a bunch of goons to dispatch.
- Map objectives being rout 95% of the time. Combined with a lot of maps having choke points swarmed by archers and spell casters, it makes the game a bit of a slog.
- Terrain tiles offering large increases in avoid make physical fights against certain enemies more annoying than they are. Really annoying if you can't finish off that mounted unit who decides to run to the supply cache.
- Most of Celica's later maps are awful. Movement impedance + summoners out of range of warp are just uuuuggghhh.
If they remake FE6/7/9/10 using the same QOL and presentation improvements, I'm excited. But I just wish they did more with regards to the gameplay because FE2 wasn't good back then and isn't that good now.
Yeah, Boey is...not great because of his stats and spell options. The unfortunate problem is that the overall game design seems to clearly pigeon hole units into "good" and "bad" categories. If you can one round enemies with any degree of reliability, you're 100% good. If you have can't one round enemies but have physic/invoke/fortify/warp/rescue, you're 100% good too. Anyone else who can't achieve either of these are sort of dead weight without grinding and favoritism.
My Clair was pretty mediocre throughout the game to be honest. That said, I didn't put that much effort into leveling her because of that fact, so it's possible she gets better later? I dunno...
Its the difficulty curve of the game. She's not bulky and doesn't hit particularly hard when you recruit her, which is not good when enemies start getting physically harder to kill. Her kind of bad bases/tougher enemies can get you RNG screwed sure but should be mitigating her poor offense/abusing her high speed with weapons.
Promoting her to Falcon Knight ASAP is important as it gives her huge bonuses to her bulk and gives her +10 attack against terrors.
I AM NOT GOING TO GIVE UP ON THE PEGASUS OJOU D: FALCON KNIGHT IT IS.
(also glad that I got faye as a pegasus knight so she has a competent wingman)
I'm halfway through Act 4 and I'm getting tired of this game. Too many of the same enemies, same-ish maps, and not enough character building/customization to keep it interesting. But I have been enjoying the game for the most part.
I like that there are villages you can visit and sidequests you can do for people, which I think helps make the story feel grounded. Plus, the commoners respond when you take out the minor villains who are oppressing them. Looking back I think this is what was seriously missing from Fates. It never felt like I was in a great war, I was just kinda doing my own thing, detached from everything else.
I also like that you can chat with your party members inside villages and shrines. It fleshes out their background and personality better than the support conversations.
The dungeons are pretty fun to explore too. Definitely a breath of fresh air that this series needed. I kinda hope they keep this feature, but make the dungeons more interesting with puzzles and treasures. But also don't make the dungeons too long. It's like a side dish to compliment the main dish.
In summary ... some good ideas here, but I just want the get the game over with now.
I like that there are villages you can visit and sidequests you can do for people, which I think helps make the story feel grounded. Plus, the commoners respond when you take out the minor villains who are oppressing them. Looking back I think this is what was seriously missing from Fates. It never felt like I was in a great war, I was just kinda doing my own thing, detached from everything else.
I also like that you can chat with your party members inside villages and shrines. It fleshes out their background and personality better than the support conversations.
The dungeons are pretty fun to explore too. Definitely a breath of fresh air that this series needed. I kinda hope they keep this feature, but make the dungeons more interesting with puzzles and treasures. But also don't make the dungeons too long. It's like a side dish to compliment the main dish.
In summary ... some good ideas here, but I just want the get the game over with now.
My clair was shit in the earlt game and faye pk was much better but she became a way better offensive unit later with great stats. That being said, my faye as a pk had the third highest def on alms route, behind the two barons.
theprodigy
Member
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I've never played Fire Emblem on casual because it sounds terribly easy, the series is clearly designed around permadeath and I can't imagine a situation that would still be challenging without it. This game, at least acts 1-3, is pretty easy on Hard/Classic so I imagine Normal/Classic should be fine for you difficulty wise.
This game man. One one hand the plot started off STRONG and was very enticing, The characters were cool and the production values were top notch, on the other Celica got rekt hard by the writers, and Jedah is too stupid.
. But I don't regret the 30 hours nor the 47 bucks I dropped for this game. Alm and Celica are now my favorite pair of lords PERIOD. and everyone is brimming with life thanks to the stellar VO and writing. If I had to rate this game it'd be a solid 8.5/10
I kinda wish we went off the rails and made Duma!Berkut the final boss but oh well
Celica is still best girl. fite me
There's a lot about (modern) Fire Emblem that one needs to unlearn when playing Gaiden, one of which accuracy. From Fuuin No Tsurugi onward, the game would check whether an attack would hit twice, making it more likely to hit someone with over 50% and less likely to be hit with an attack that had less than 50%, a decision that ultimately benefits the player early on due to the presence of the accuracy-lacking axe-wielding enemies and the main character usually using a sword. In the pre-GBA era, the game will check once which will result in more misses than hits, hence the often unusual results. Needless to say that i've had literal turns full of 70s miss while 60s connect. If you're interested, Serenes Forest has a great breakdown.
Probably not the best comparison to make since Faye is closer to an Awakening/Fates character in terms of growth whereas Clair is...not. She turned out fine in my run, if a little soft but that might be because i'm the kind of person who takes advantage of every level up they can get. Best advice I can give is to give her the Steel Lance you get early on and let her start taking out any foe slower than her given her good base speed.
theprodigy
Member
You might want to take another look at their growths there...
Clair has -5% HP, +25% skill, +40%(!!!) speed, +20% luck, -10% defense, -1% resistance in personal growths vs Faye.
The old FE games roll one random number to determine hit rates, while the new FE games (from 6 onwards I think?) use the average of two numbers. If you don't want to do the math, the 2-random-number system basically means that hit rates above 50% have a higher chance of hitting than their displayed chance - that 90% hit rate is actually closer to 98%. This also means that hit rates below 50% have a lower chance of hitting - those brigands in FE7 usually have hit rates around 30%, but that actually translates to an 18% chance of hitting.
The 2-RN system massively benefits the player, since enemies are usually of low quality and have much worse hit rates than the player.
SoV uses the 1-RN system, which means that the displayed chance to hit is the actual chance to hit. If you've ever played the new XCOM games, well, you know what to expect. You're bound to miss 1/10 of your 90% attacks, and you're probably going to miss 1 out of every 3 60-70% attacks. Humans tend to think that a 70% chance to hit is really good (it's bigger than 50%!), but it's actually pretty terrible.
(Fates uses a slightly modified 2-RN system, which I'm not entirely sure how it works)
Just finished the main story. Overall, I'd say there are many aspects here that are better than Fates or Awakening, but in gameplay, Fates Conquest still triumph.
Story started interesting but at the later parts it became dumb. It was annoying seeing Celica became another damsel in distress, and that she was willing to do stupid things for save Alm. What a disappointment. As for Alm, I neither like nor dislike him. But I preferred more his missions than Celica. Screw that desert and swamp.
What I liked about this game was the dungeons, the soundtrack and the gameplay. Never missed the weapon triangle or was annoyed that spellcasters lost health while using their spells. I also appreciated the production values were top notch.
What I disliked was the story at the end. Villains were disappointing too. Jedah was annoying as a character and as a boss. And sometimes dungeons were too long and you couldn't run from dungeon battles.
Hopefully IS continues remaking other Fire Emblem games. Wouldn't mind if we return to Marth, or Eirika or Ike.
And my MVP characters were Mae, Delthea, Kliff and Grey. Genne and Silque too with their summoning. Also loved the three pegasus sisters. And Mathilda is the best.
Story started interesting but at the later parts it became dumb. It was annoying seeing Celica became another damsel in distress, and that she was willing to do stupid things for save Alm. What a disappointment. As for Alm, I neither like nor dislike him. But I preferred more his missions than Celica. Screw that desert and swamp.
What I liked about this game was the dungeons, the soundtrack and the gameplay. Never missed the weapon triangle or was annoyed that spellcasters lost health while using their spells. I also appreciated the production values were top notch.
What I disliked was the story at the end. Villains were disappointing too. Jedah was annoying as a character and as a boss. And sometimes dungeons were too long and you couldn't run from dungeon battles.
Hopefully IS continues remaking other Fire Emblem games. Wouldn't mind if we return to Marth, or Eirika or Ike.
And my MVP characters were Mae, Delthea, Kliff and Grey. Genne and Silque too with their summoning. Also loved the three pegasus sisters. And Mathilda is the best.
The problem I had with Alm is that there's nothing to like or dislike- he's just another generic JRPG/fantasy teenager. Starts in a rural village but with the advantage of a powerful mentor, humble and unfailingly polite even when insulted, gifted with a sword. Will do anything to save an individual to the point of recklessness even when others suggest the greater good or caution is more important, and is then immediately vindicated for it every time, making everyone think he's special for having a character 'failing-that isn't-a-failing' of caring too damn much. Everyone thrusts leadership on his shoulders at the first opportunity, and he is destined for great things. I didn't really see much of a distinct character there aside from 'generic likeable hero guy template'.
Not even grinding. Though, I did reclass him back to a villager. He just got really overpowered and soaked up almost all the EXP. He got an average of three stats per growth with the occasional 2 or 4 thrown in. he had almost as much plus 5 as he did plus 1.
theprodigy
Member
looping back to villager is definitely grinding lol
Elaugaufein
Member
To be fair that's because Gaiden came out in 92. Alm predates nearly all of his JRPG equivalents and many of the anime ones.
Its difficult to avoid playing into archetypes that you are helping to form.
End game? Not even. Although, it might be because I got really unlucky with skirmish spawns and had to fight a ton over the course of the game. Trying to back track to promote or forge would always spawn in like 2 or 3.
Fair point, but considering the production values of Echoes and the changes elsewhere, they could at least have given a lead character a touch more personality. Other characters sound like they have been fleshed out to a far greater degree.
psychowave
Member
Did you try examining the different environments when playing as him? I felt like his lines when you do helped his character a little.
Elaugaufein
Member
She's not crazy. She's just totally empty inside apart from her devotion to Alm.
She's gone past Yandere and out the other side.
NeonZ
Member
I thought he had a more distinct personality in his Awakening DLC cameo, but I guess it'd be hard to have this guy as an unquestionably heroic protagonist.
Oh dear...
The 'someone left a pile of weapons here, I'm
glad we have everything we need' stuff? Yeah, I suppose they add a little, but there's nothing particularly characterful, it's just sensible observations.
Even some of the support lines throughout - I had to laugh at the amount of them that can be summarised as 'I don't want to talk to you right now' (Alm and
Mycen
Xenoflare
Member
My Claire had decent growth besides HP, and she outclassed all three of the pegasus sisters.
Her speed growth is nearing Kaze.
70% in a game where 30% is the norm.
Finally beat the game, Invoke the hell out of things and please get Tatiana to learn fortify, Clerics in this game are too good.
I've seen many times that people mentioned the mercs in Celica's route are making their own version of Outer Heaven
Her speed growth is nearing Kaze.
70% in a game where 30% is the norm.
Finally beat the game, Invoke the hell out of things and please get Tatiana to learn fortify, Clerics in this game are too good.
I've seen many times that people mentioned the mercs in Celica's route are making their own version of Outer Heaven
You've entered chapter 5. Logic and common sense have no meaning there.
psychowave
Member
There's a few of them where he makes a bunch of puns and stuff like that. It's not much in the way of characterization, but I found they made him a lot more endearing at least.
He and Celica are apparently both cat people, as evidenced by done of his quotes.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I liked Alm a lot, he had a snarky and pragmatic side that most old school FE lords don't. Most of them are childishly idealistic to a fault, Alm's farm boy background made him a bit more grounded I think
DecoReturns
Member
He's Kinda like Ike honestly, although only a little bit
StrikeFirst117
Banned
My God
citadel was one of the worst maps I have ever played, so damn annoying ridiculous archers and 6 summons every couple of turns made that map take over an hour and half.
Grieths
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I like Alm as a character.
His story has a compelling hook while I felt that Fates failed a bit in this regard.
I wouldn't mind if the next FE Lord in the Switch game becomes Fire Emblem's Yuri though.
His story has a compelling hook while I felt that Fates failed a bit in this regard.
I wouldn't mind if the next FE Lord in the Switch game becomes Fire Emblem's Yuri though.
Gai Murakumo
Member
Finished Celica's side of Act 4.
At least Alm's side is much better.
She was not as bad as people pointed out but she still makes a pretty dumb decision of not telling everyone the truth. I feel if she did her allies seem to be the type that would still understand and support her. But Celica is too afraid and stubborn to tell them it made me want to scream "Just tell them for God's sake!". I am eager to see the even dumber decision she makes in Act 5.
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