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[HarryHengst]

Couple of questions:

I'll be trying the every other day routine in the OP and had a couple questions:

- Does anyone have a proper guide for form on squats, deadlifts, power cleans, and bent over rows?
- What's suggested for "arm work"?
- I'd like to be going to the gym 6 days a week. Sun/Tue/Thur for weights with some cardio. And Mon/Wed/Fri to do 45 minute of cardio and abdominal work. Will that be enough time to rest my muscles?
- What do people recommend for abdominal work? Planks and side planks have seemed to really push me, but I'm sure if that works out everything, or if I could be doing more?

Thanks in advance.

There is no reason at all to do so much ab work. You wont get a six-pack unless you got a really low % of bodyfat, and you cant spot reduce fat.

For lifts: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Lifts and/or http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

 

[parrotbeak]

But it's every other day?

The OP routine has you doing squats every other day... so what's the difference?

I think it's fine to do core work such as planks daily. You're not going to hypertrophy, you're just increasing core endurance. This is different than strength training movements.

 

[X-Frame]

So I posted about this last week, but I continue to have issues with my left chest/neck/shoulder hurting when I bench press. My PR is 205 3x5, so today I went in planning to take it very easy, doing 135 3x5. Within 2 or 3 reps the pain showed up again. I don't really feel anything outside of bench pressing, so I think I'm simply pulled something and need to lay off the bench press for a week or so entirely. Does that sound like a solid plan? I know it fucks up my SS program a bit, but it's better than injury for sure.

In that time-frame, should I simply avoid lifting entirely or should I continue with the rest of my program Today I did my squats beforehand, but then left the gym after bench skipping Deads and pullups. I don't know if it was the right move, but better safe than sorry.

Thanks guys. As always.

Sounds like an issue with your rotator cuff if it only happens when you bench. Personally, I would completely drop bench press and replace it with perfect form push-ups. See if you still get pain. I'd lay off for a couple weeks minimum because you definitely DON'T want a rotator cuff injury.

Let things settle and heal before you start benching again. It's not a big deal, 2-4 weeks in the grand scheme of things is absolutely nothing. Lifting is a marathon after all, not a sprint. Live to fight another day.

 

[Petrie]

Do you get the same pain when doing presses, db bench or flys?

My workout plan only has me doing bench and overheads, and there is literally no pain when I do OHP, I even made a PR the same week it started.

The pain seems to be more towards my back, like on the back of my shoulder right where my neck and shoulder meet. Almost seems like my traps, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps I've been going too far down on my bench press without realizing it, and this is causing a problem?

 

[Bealost]

Make sure your heart rate isn't dropping too much. 90 seconds seems like too long of a rest period.

Can you elaborate some on this point cuevas? I always thought the whole point behind HIIT was to prolong the aerobic process beyond the actual exercise itself, so it would seem resting some between "sets" allowing you to push yourself harder for the next set would be benefical. My plan was to keep doing 30-90s until I could complete all 10 intervals with a sub 6 min mile sprint and a sub 10 min mile rest, but perhaps i will attempt to shorten the rest periods first instead of increasing the intensity. Thoughts?

 

[JB1981]

I don't think I'm lifting anything for about a month.

Right now I am doing bodyweight shit:

Bird dogs
Planks
Side Bridges
Stir-the-pots
Dying Bug w/ Wall Push (HAHA this name got it from T-Nation)

Pullups - right now doing about 10, 8, 7, 5, 3. Followed by 10 doubles

Dips - 15, 12, 8, 7, 5. Followed by ten singles

Push ups - 21, 16, 12, 12, 11.

Bike for 10 minutes at a pretty fast pace. A word of caution: don't take up a strength program without knowing what the fuck you're doing. Don't be like me and fuck up your back. 3 years now and I'm still dealing with pain from my herniated disc. It is really irritating and I will probably never be able to be really strong.. at least not as strong as I would like to be. I am hoping after a month of daily ibuprofen, some core strengthening and good nutrition/rest I can get back into SS and get much stronger.

Right now I guess I will just focus on some endurance and bodyweight work that doesn't compromise my back in any way.

I like this guys videos for ab work/conditioning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJxomm2idAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq3TFlRfZDw&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rwV_ku-DfQ

 

[parrotbeak]

JB did you see my late response on the decompression, and have you looked into it further? I couldn't find anything specifically about it in Ultimate Backs, but rereading the section explaining stability is much more important than flexibility, I would guess that decompression is bad for discs.

 

[justjohn]

Ca one of you lovely fellas critique my diet? i'm quite muscular but trying to shift some extra weight to look a bit leaner.

i eat six small meals a day

meal 1
cereal/protein shake/fruit
meal 2
oats/protein shake/fruit
meal 3
salad/chicken/fruit
meal 4
protein shake/peanut butter/fruit
meal 5
salad/meat/fruit
meal 6
protein shake/peanut butter
fruit

 

[parrotbeak]

My workout plan only has me doing bench and overheads, and there is literally no pain when I do OHP, I even made a PR the same week it started.

The pain seems to be more towards my back, like on the back of my shoulder right where my neck and shoulder meet. Almost seems like my traps, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps I've been going too far down on my bench press without realizing it, and this is causing a problem?

I was going to say make sure you're not flaring your elbows, but actually I would just listen to X-Frame's advice. Assistance work might help stabilize and strengthen your shoulders, if it's not causing any pain. Flys, db press, rear delt raises, other back work.

 

[JB1981]

JB did you see my late response on the decompression, and have you looked into it further? I couldn't find anything specifically about it in Ultimate Backs, but rereading the section explaining stability is much more important than flexibility, I would guess that decompression is bad for discs.

hey parrot,

yes i did see it .. thank you for getting back to me. I was thinking of asking for Ultimate Back for Xmas. Looks like McGill has some DVDs too but they are really expensive. I think I am done with the decompression. It hurts when I do it and I am not really comfortable with how it feels. I hear it's supposed to hurt initially and then subside but I really don't see how it can help me. The problem with my herniation is that it's so low down the back and it causes a lot of hip pain and inflammation. I get sciatica with it too. I need to get one of those lumbar support cushions for the car and work, they really do help. Does McGill talk about chiropractic in the book at all?

 

[Petrie]

Ca one of you lovely fellas critique my diet? i'm quite muscular but trying to shift some extra weight to look a bit leaner.

i eat six small meals a day

meal 1
cereal/protein shake/fruit
meal 2
oats/protein shake/fruit
meal 3
salad/chicken/fruit
meal 4
protein shake/peanut butter/fruit
meal 5
salad/meat/fruit
meal 6
protein shake/peanut butter
fruit

All I know is too much of your nutrition is coming from shakes.

 

[MjFrancis]

i'm quite muscular but trying to shift some extra weight to look a bit leaner.

Is this a different way of saying you want to lose some fat? If that's the case I'd rather diet on a low(er) carbohydrate diet with less protein shakes or fruit. The shakes could all be replaced with solid foods if you're on a caloric deficit to assist with satiety.

 

[MrToughPants]

Ca one of you lovely fellas critique my diet? i'm quite muscular but trying to shift some extra weight to look a bit leaner.

i eat six small meals a day

meal 1
cereal/protein shake/fruit
meal 2
oats/protein shake/fruit
meal 3
salad/chicken/fruit
meal 4
protein shake/peanut butter/fruit
meal 5
salad/meat/fruit
meal 6
protein shake/peanut butter
fruit

~500 calories of fruit

Also 4 protein shakes a day is ridiculous unless you're a "quite muscular" 300lbs behemoth.

 

[parrotbeak]

hey parrot,

yes i did see it .. thank you for getting back to me. I was thinking of asking for Ultimate Back for Xmas. Looks like McGill has some DVDs too but they are really expensive. I think I am done with the decompression. It hurts when I do it and I am not really comfortable with how it feels. I hear it's supposed to hurt initially and then subside but I really don't see how it can help me. The problem with my herniation is that it's so low down the back and it causes a lot of hip pain and inflammation. I get sciatica with it too. I need to get one of those lumbar support cushions for the car and work, they really do help. Does McGill talk about chiropractic in the book at all?

Ya, I have the same problem -- when my back is hurting, my hips get tight too. I usually focus my warmup on hip activation; usually will get warm on elliptical, focusing on using hips and glutes. Then dynamic stretching and sitting in low squat position. Usually I can sit in squat forever, but last week I could hardly get all the way down because my front hip flexors were just sore in that position. I could still run stairs and do lunges, but I couldn't do split squats without losing balance. But by yesterday I seemed better. It comes and goes.

I didn't see anything on chiropractic stuff in the book but I didn't have time to read this weekend. I just read through the table of content for anything on decompression and then not finding anything, reread the stretching section.

 

[justjohn]

Is this a different way of saying you want to lose some fat? If that's the case I'd rather diet on a low(er) carbohydrate diet with less protein shakes or fruit. The shakes could all be replaced with solid foods if you're on a caloric deficit to assist with satiety.

apart from the oats/cereal in the morning where else is the carbohydrate? the fruits? i guess the peanut butter as well?

also i use shakes because they're very quick and easy. my job is far too busy to stop and eats a small meal.

i guess i can cut the shakes in the evening and make it three.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Can anybody vouch a workout program targeted at reversing muscle imbalances from poor posture? Being in front of a computer or TV the past decade has really fucked up my posture and I'm looking to make correcting it my one goal for the new year.

 

[X-Frame]

hey parrot,

yes i did see it .. thank you for getting back to me. I was thinking of asking for Ultimate Back for Xmas. Looks like McGill has some DVDs too but they are really expensive. I think I am done with the decompression. It hurts when I do it and I am not really comfortable with how it feels. I hear it's supposed to hurt initially and then subside but I really don't see how it can help me. The problem with my herniation is that it's so low down the back and it causes a lot of hip pain and inflammation. I get sciatica with it too. I need to get one of those lumbar support cushions for the car and work, they really do help. Does McGill talk about chiropractic in the book at all?

If you haven't already, read this article:

Conquering Enemies Of The Spine (T-Nation)

 

[Funky Papa]

Advice for Euro gaffers: Optimum Nutrition's European made chocolate whey protein tastes really poor compared to the American made stuff. I used to import it from America because it was cheaper until customs decided to go mental on every package over €30, and the new EU stuff is pretty damn poor.

Strawberry is fine, though.

 

[parrotbeak]

Can anybody vouch a workout program targeted at reversing muscle imbalances from poor posture? Being in front of a computer or TV the past decade has really fucked up my posture and I'm looking to make correcting it my one goal for the new year.

No, but we were kinda talking about this recently. A solid strength program such as the OP's should give you the ability to hold good posture, but the challenge is to hold it throughout the day when you're not thinking about it. This is more endurance, reminders, and discipline than strength. No workout will automatically fix how you position yourself during the majority of the day.

I've been standing while resting at the gym and now that I'm being more conscious of it I notice how many people sit slumped over, rounded back and shoulders in between sets. Strong muscles but poor posture will still probably lead to pains and disfunction as you get older.

 

[Petrie]

apart from the oats/cereal in the morning where else is the carbohydrate? the fruits? i guess the peanut butter as well?

also i use shakes because they're very quick and easy. my job is far too busy to stop and eats a small meal.

i guess i can cut the shakes in the evening and make it three.

I'd cut a morning shake, far too much of your morning caloric intake seems to be from shakes instead of real foods. Skip the first shake and make yourself a real breakfast.

 

[rCIZZLE]

No, but we were kinda talking about this recently. A solid strength program such as the OP's should give you the ability to hold good posture, but the challenge is to hold it throughout the day when you're not thinking about it. This is more endurance, reminders, and discipline than strength. No workout will automatically fix how you position yourself during the majority of the day.

I've been standing while resting at the gym and now that I'm being more conscious of it I notice how many people sit slumped over, rounded back and shoulders in between sets. Strong muscles but poor posture will still probably lead to pains and disfunction as you get older.

My goal is to get to the point where my neutral posture is good. I've never spent much time strength training so I'm not really sure if using a standard full body routine would make it harder for me to correct posture down the road. I do try to stand up straight and not slouch when sitting but I really have to strain to make it look normal.

 

[Mully]

Anyone care to post a proper meal plan for weight loss while still lifting atleast 3 days a week? My diet has been shit the past three weeks due to school. Last night I had a BLT on a Bagel at 11PM. WTF is wrong with me?

 

[OG Kush]

Can anybody vouch a workout program targeted at reversing muscle imbalances from poor posture? Being in front of a computer or TV the past decade has really fucked up my posture and I'm looking to make correcting it my one goal for the new year.

Yoga. I did the first 2 months of p90x without yoga but recently tried it last week. Fuck it was good, Then I researched the benefits of yoga for the back and such and found all positive things. I had a lower back pain before I did 1hr30 mins of yoga. The next day the pain was gone.

 

[rage1973]

Anyone care to post a proper meal plan for weight loss while still lifting atleast 3 days a week? My diet has been shit the past three weeks due to school. Last night I had a BLT on a Bagel at 11PM. WTF is wrong with me?

Go check out leangains.com. I have been on it for 2+ weeks and it was done wonders for my diet and cutting.

 

[parrotbeak]

My goal is to get to the point where my neutral posture is good. I've never spent much time strength training so I'm not really sure if using a standard full body routine would make it harder for me to correct posture down the road. I do try to stand up straight and not slouch when sitting but I really have to strain to make it look normal.

I'd think a full body strength training will make you more aware of your positioning and activate more muscles and nerves. From there it's endurance.

What is your workout now?

 

[MrToughPants]

I'd cut a morning shake, far too much of your morning caloric intake seems to be from shakes instead of real foods. Skip the first shake and make yourself a real breakfast.

Eggs for breakfast is what i've always done if i'm not in a rush.

Lately I've been scrambling up about 4 eggs with 1 cup egg whites and cooking a big pack of oriental noodles, it totals about 1200 calories with a glass of milk. I throw the noodles & mix in a pot with the cooked eggs and add a ton of water so I don't get too much of the sodium.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I'd think a full body strength training will make you more aware of your positioning and activate more muscles and nerves. From there it's endurance.

What is your workout now?

Right now? Basically nothing. I run 3-4 times a week but I haven't lifted at all in over a year. I plan on starting very soon though so I can get in a groove before the new year. A buddy of mine lifts every morning and invited me to join starting with a 5x5 program which I'll do if I have nothing specifically geared towards my goals. My biggest worry is my unstable posture leading to an injury because I didn't take the time to fix it or workout around it.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

A word of caution: don't take up a strength program without knowing what the fuck you're doing. Don't be like me and fuck up your back. 3 years now and I'm still dealing with pain from my herniated disc. It is really irritating and I will probably never be able to be really strong.. at least not as strong as I would like to be. I am hoping after a month of daily ibuprofen, some core strengthening and good nutrition/rest I can get back into SS and get much stronger.

Maybe you've already mentioned this before, but is surgery an option for you? I had a herniated disc (L5/S1) when I was 18, tried just about everything over the course of the next year (chiropractor, physical therapy, etc) and finally decided to get it taken care of (not a fusion, I think it was a partial discectomy).

Since then I've made a 100% recovery. Every single one of my symptoms went away, I have full flexibility and range of motion back, no pain, etc.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Go check out leangains.com. I have been on it for 2+ weeks and it was done wonders for my diet and cutting.

Why am I not seeing any article on this website for actual food suggestions? What's your daily menu look like for this?

 

[rage1973]

Why am I not seeing any article on this website for actual food suggestions? What's your daily menu look like for this?

You just have to do your own calculation on calorie intake and P/F/C breakdown.

My meal plan goes like this.
2PM
first meal sub sandwich with extra meat at cheese
150g C 80g P 28g F
1172 calories

5PM
0% greek yogurt + scoop of whey
42 g P 11g C 1g F
220 calories

8PM
Salad with Chicken breast
50g of P 5g C 16g F
364 calories

9PM
Casein Protein Shake
24g P 1g F 4g C
120 calories

Those are my training day breakdowns.
On non training days you need to lower your carbs and raise your fat and about 20% less in calories.

 

[rage1973]

My deadlift is going up steadily now since I dropped workout gloves. I got 335 x 5 today and I think I could go up to 350 x 5 pretty easily. Goal is to get to 400 x 5.

 

[JB1981]

Maybe you've already mentioned this before, but is surgery an option for you? I had a herniated disc (L5/S1) when I was 18, tried just about everything over the course of the next year (chiropractor, physical therapy, etc) and finally decided to get it taken care of (not a fusion, I think it was a partial discectomy).

Since then I've made a 100% recovery. Every single one of my symptoms went away, I have full flexibility and range of motion back, no pain, etc.

I never saw an orthopedic just had my Chiro call in for and MRI which showed herniaton at L5-S1. Maybe I should schedule an appointment and see if I'm a candidate. Great to hear you had such good results. You're not in Jersey are you ?

 

[parrotbeak]

L5-S1 is where I had my herniation and discetomy also. I'm just thankful it wasn't L4-L5, since according to one gaffer, that causes testicle pain.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

L5-S1 is where I had my herniation and discetomy also. I'm just thankful it wasn't L4-L5, since according to one gaffer, that causes testicle pain.

No pain no gain.

 

[parrotbeak]

No pain no gain.

That's true, left untreated there is a chance it will swell up. My pinched sciatic nerve was like 3x the size of the normal side after 2 months.

 

[shira]

Maybe you've already mentioned this before, but is surgery an option for you? I had a herniated disc (L5/S1) when I was 18, tried just about everything over the course of the next year (chiropractor, physical therapy, etc) and finally decided to get it taken care of (not a fusion, I think it was a partial discectomy).

Since then I've made a 100% recovery. Every single one of my symptoms went away, I have full flexibility and range of motion back, no pain, etc.

What is your definition of "full" flexibility? Can you do the splits? Can you touch your elbows to the ground? Can you bend over backwards?

Surgery is the worst thing you can ever do. The scar tissue build up from the surgery alone is going to limit what you can and can't do. I definitley would have tried to find a better chiro or PT.

 

[thomaser]

Just a question for med-gaf: I have had a pain under my right foot for over two months now. I have been to a doctor, and he couldn't find anything, and told me that it will probably go away with time. The first time I noticed it was when squatting. The pain is located around the "base" of the second, third and fourth toes, under the foot, when I walk or put pressure on the foot. It also hurts to bend the second toe downwards or to the sides - then, the pain is in that toe. I wonder if I might have injured my toes somehow when working out, but I mostly do the big compound exercises and pull-ups, so I'm not sure how that can have hurt my foot. Anyone had the same problem?

 

[JB1981]

When I get warm ROM and flexibility isn't the problem its the pain. I can do a full squat, touch my toes in a v-sit etc.

 

[shira]

Just a question for med-gaf: I have had a pain under my right foot for over two months now. I have been to a doctor, and he couldn't find anything, and told me that it will probably go away with time. The first time I noticed it was when squatting. The pain is located around the "base" of the second, third and fourth toes, under the foot, when I walk or put pressure on the foot. It also hurts to bend the second toe downwards or to the sides - then, the pain is in that toe. I wonder if I might have injured my toes somehow when working out, but I mostly do the big compound exercises and pull-ups, so I'm not sure how that can have hurt my foot. Anyone had the same problem?

Well you are probably squatting wrong if it occured while squatting.

Doctor's can't do much with pain. You can get a drug prescription from a doctor to relieve pain but that's about it.
Go see a specialist or a rehab therapist

When I get warm ROM and flexibility isn't the problem its the pain. I can do a full squat, touch my toes in a v-sit etc.

There is a huge difference between perceived flexibility and actual flexibility.

Can you do the splits?
Can you touch your elbows to the ground?
Can you bend over backwards?

These are indicators of actual flexibility and muscle control, whatever you learned in PE class is not applicable.

 

[parrotbeak]

There is a huge difference between perceived flexibility and actual flexibility.

Can you do the splits?
Can you touch your elbows to the ground?
Can you bend over backwards?

These are indicators of actual flexibility and muscle control, whatever you learned in PE class is not applicable.

Are any of those things good for long term disc health?

 

[thomaser]

Well you are probably squatting wrong if it occured while squatting.

I don't know when it occurred, or what happened in the first place. I just felt it first while squatting normally (keeping my weight on the heels), and it has become worse since then. Something might have happened at an earlier time. I don't feel it much when squatting now, mostly when just walking or standing on my toes.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

There is a huge difference between perceived flexibility and actual flexibility.

Can you do the splits?
Can you touch your elbows to the ground?
Can you bend over backwards?

These are indicators of actual flexibility and muscle control, whatever you learned in PE class is not applicable.

Why the fuck would I want to do any of that?

 

[shira]

Why the fuck would I want to do any of that?

Are any of those things good for long term disc health?

Full spinal mobility and flexibility is a very good thing. It indicates that you can relax all of your back muscles and you have eliminated most of the scar tissue build up between vertebrae.

I would say if you could do these you are a pretty phenomenal athlete.

 

[dudeworld]

Full spinal mobility and flexibility is a very good thing. It indicates that you can relax all of your back muscles and you have eliminated most of the scar tissue build up between vertebrae.

I would say if you could do these you are a pretty phenomenal athlete.

how many phenomenal athletes can do that? I'm talking like soccer players, basketball, hockey, etc.

 

[shira]

how many phenomenal athletes can do that? I'm talking like soccer players, basketball, hockey, etc.

It's pretty uncommon testing procedures, but the thing about true athletes is that they pick things up faster than average people. So doing the spilts or mastering a jump shot is usually figured out faster than average people.

This differentiates weightlifters and athletes. Anybody can lift everyday, but figuring out how to lift properly or apply training into skills is something different.

 

[parrotbeak]

I don't know when it occurred, or what happened in the first place. I just felt it first while squatting normally (keeping my weight on the heels), and it has become worse since then. Something might have happened at an earlier time. I don't feel it much when squatting now, mostly when just walking or standing on my toes.

Might just be some ligament swelling or something. I had a weird feeling in my hand for a while and couldn't identify it, but it went away after 2-3 weeks. Actually there is still a slight tweak when I flex my index finger. Feeling it now I think it may have localized in the first knuckle, whereas up till recently it wasn't localized or I couldn't tell where it was coming from.

The pads of the foot is one place I get sciatica, but moving my toes has no effect on it, since the problem is in the lumbar. So the fact that your pain gets worse when you move your toes makes me think it's some tissue swelling in your toe, and probably not a huge deal. Are you on your feet a lot throughout the day? I'd think any extra pressure like squatting, running, etc, will probably aggravate it, so you could try just taking time off.

Full spinal mobility and flexibility is a very good thing. It indicates that you can relax all of your back muscles and you have eliminated most of the scar tissue build up between vertebrae.

I would say if you could do these you are a pretty phenomenal athlete.

Can you cite some studies on flexibility and spinal health, particularly relating to disc health, since the conversation was about those of us with disc injuries?

 

[shira]

Can you cite some studies on flexibility and spinal health, particularly relating to disc health, since the conversation was about those of us with disc injuries?

Hahaha, there are some but when drug companies own healthcare why bother doing any studies. I'm sure they exist, but you are not going to get a lot of top flight research on methods that doesn't cost anything, doesn't require hospital time, or training equipment.

It is much easier to publish stuff about drug effects, surgical interventions, etc.

I don't feel it much when squatting now, mostly when just walking or standing on my toes.

If it has been 2 weeks go see a podiatrist or a foot specialist.
And I would stop squatting if it is foot related.
Like I said a family physician or a clinic doctor can't do anything for you, aside from prescribing tylenol 3 or ibuprofen.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I'm sure they exist

...

 

[shira]

...

I'm not a library. It costs money to have access to journals. Do you expcet me to pay $50 to subscribe so I can find some articles.

 

[thomaser]

The pads of the foot is one place I get sciatica, but moving my toes has no effect on it, since the problem is in the lumbar. So the fact that your pain gets worse when you move your toes makes me think it's some tissue swelling in your toe, and probably not a huge deal. Are you on your feet a lot throughout the day? I'd think any extra pressure like squatting, running, etc, will probably aggravate it, so you could try just taking time off.

Yeah, I stand all day at work. I don't think it's a big deal either, but it has been this way for over two months with no sign of changing, and that is a little worrying. The pain in the toe is kind of like the pain you get when your neck or wrist "locks", and you have to crack it out to loosen it. I can crack the toe in question, but it doesn't ease up at all.

If it has been 2 weeks go see a podiatrist or a foot specialist.

I'll try to see a podiatrist, thanks.