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[I'm an expert]

How did your upper body fall behind so much? =O

 

[mrbagdt]

Some things:

1. The first place I ever heard the phrase "people will die for points" is from Crossfit. The workouts are designed to be a competition with other people. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's difficult for two people to compete is exercise because exercise isn't a competition. You can compete with your own numbers, but as soon as you start interacting in a group setting, it leads to a difficulty in somebody remembering to pace themselves. As for the 20% slop and speed versus form issues, watch any of the videos in the past about how to conduct a class session. They say in there that you have to keep things moving, because you only have an hour and you don't want to be late for the next class.

2. I have never, ever, said the only way that somebody can work out is 1-on-1. I did say that if somebody is doing something wrong, if you're a trainer, you stop them, correct the form, and resume. This is the problem with classroom based workouts in general, and Crossfit specifically. Crossfit generally has a lot of high rep, high speed, movements does with a random bit of equipment in a large group of people. That spells disaster, and there's been plenty of examples.

3. Does the beginning of this thread have workout tailer made for specific individuals? No. It does have several examples of solid programming templates for various levels of fitness. Crossfit does not, because it's inherently designed to really only focus on short intense workouts with a shit ton of volume in them. Scaling Cindy down is pointless if you have a client that can barely do a pull up.

4. Programming is a science. There are goals you set, surpass, and then reset. While you can set goals with Crossfit, it's based around a whole pile of workouts that don't really translate into anything other than being better at Crossfit. There's a reason why "crossfit football" exists. There's a reason why several special matter experts left crossfit. There's a reason why you don't see a whole slew of professional athletes or fitness models boasting about crossfit kicking their collective asses, because there are better ways to go about training.

5. If you enjoy Crossfit, that's great. Really, it is. I'm happy that you enjoy it and, as I've also said before, do something is generally better than doing nothing. There are several really good "Crossfit" Boxes out there. If I'm going to be honest, though, the're not doing Crossfit, they're doing general strength and conditioning with Crossfit style WODs as the conditioning. This in mind, main site Crossfit isn't something I, personally, would recommend to a single person because it's not programming, it's inherently random. The reason I fight so strongly against it is because I know for 99% of people there are better ways to lose weight, increase muscular endurance, increase muscular hypertrophy, increase muscular strength, and increase all types of metabolic conditioning than by just doing a Crossfit WOD a day.


Have fun, and I'm glad your coaches don't suck. My main primary issue, if you haven't picked up on it, is CFHQ sells itself as one thing (the ultimate form of fitness) and the reality is if every single CF box followed main site programming, nobody would progress. I really don't have the idea of GPP, I hate how CFHQ sells itself.

EDIT: I want to be clear, I like a chunk of things that Crossfit has done and it's not all bad. However, HQ is a cesspool and the buyout that should be happening soon due to the Glassman divorce makes me very happy. Might actually bring some standards, and accountability, from the top down.

ill just say one last thing, because i really dont feel like we differ to much on what we believe. all of these negatives that you bring up, im not going to argue that they dont exist in some gyms. they certainly do. i guess what i get defensive about is that i feel like when people attack crossfit they are attacking circuit training in general and i just dont think thats true. if i came in here saying that crossfit was the be all end of all of fitness, id deserve to be mocked and derided because thats simply not true. and if someone told me that crossfit was the best way to train for an ironman, id probably give them a bewildered look.

my gym doesnt do the main site workouts. i rarely look at them so if they are stupid and make no sense on a week to week basis i am unaware. there are a ton of videos on the main site showing talks about proper form for exercises. i used those when i started out just so i could see some examples of how people do things correctly.

i think there just need to be a lot of caveats if someone said they were thinking about doing crossfit that should be brought up. things like- focus on form before speed, no matter what somebody else tell you. never do more weight than you are comfortable doing for all the lifts. dont be ashamed or embarrassed if you dont do the Rx on the board. and lastly, dont push yourself to the point of total failure, because that failure could potentially result in a painful injury.

 

[Petrie]

ill just say one last thing, because i really dont feel like we differ to much on what we believe. all of these negatives that you bring up, im not going to argue that they dont exist in some gyms. they certainly do. i guess what i get defensive about is that i feel like when people attack crossfit they are attacking circuit training in general and i just dont think thats true. if i came in here saying that crossfit was the be all end of all of fitness, id deserve to be mocked and derided because thats simply not true. and if someone told me that crossfit was the best way to train for an ironman, id probably give them a bewildered look.

my gym doesnt do the main site workouts. i rarely look at them so if they are stupid and make no sense on a week to week basis i am unaware. there are a ton of videos on the main site showing talks about proper form for exercises. i used those when i started out just so i could see some examples of how people do things correctly.

i think there just need to be a lot of caveats if someone said they were thinking about doing crossfit that should be brought up. things like- focus on form before speed, no matter what somebody else tell you. never do more weight than you are comfortable doing for all the lifts. dont be ashamed or embarrassed if you dont do the Rx on the board. and lastly, dont push yourself to the point of total failure, because that failure could potentially result in a painful injury.

And what it really seems to come down to is you guys like going to a place that says CrossFit on the door, so long as they don't actually follow the CrossFit program. Everytime it's "my gym doesn't do the WoD" and such. Well then you aren't doing CrossFit, you're going to a gym that takes advantage of the XF name in order to get people in the door, and then uses some of the XF protocols in a fitness program. It isn't the same thing, and when you use that to defend XF, it makes you sound silly and ignorant.

The caveats you give aren't things the average novice is going to be aware of, and when they enter your average XF gym, they're going to be encouraged to workout in a manner that is dangerous for them. The "slop factor" should never, ever be encouraged.

I mean hell, part of what makes the group mentality of XF work is the embarassment if you can't keep up with everyone else. Saying people should ignore it and go at their own pace, they might as well find themselves a cheaper gym and do their own Circuit Training program.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

So I've been going to the gym for a good long while now. I do a mix of weights and cardio and I go three times a week.

I'm 5 foot 9 and I currently weigh 10 stone 5. I'm getting to the point where I'm not really sure what to do next. I've made a fair bit of progress with the weights and I'd like to eventually see those abs but I still have a bit of a flabby belly, is this as a result of the type of things I eat or do I still need to keep losing weight?

Or should I be looking to start matching how many calories I use with how many I take in and start to do more weights instead of cardio? Or do them differently?

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Petrie]

So I've been going to the gym for a good long while now. I do a mix of weights and cardio and I go three times a week.

I'm 5 foot 9 and I currently weigh 10 stone 5. I'm getting to the point where I'm not really sure what to do next. I've made a fair bit of progress with the weights and I'd like to eventually see those abs but I still have a bit of a flabby belly, is this as a result of the type of things I eat or do I still need to keep losing weight?

Or should I be looking to start matching how many calories I use with how many I take in and start to do more weights instead of cardio? Or do them differently?

Any help is much appreciated.

Abs are about 90% diet. We need more info on your workouts and diet to give any real advice though. 10% bodyfat or so for visible abs.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

Abs are about 90% diet. We need more info on your workouts and diet to give any real advice though. 10% bodyfat or so for visible abs.

I do three days a week at the gym and I'll separate the weights between back/arms, chest/legs and abs/core on those days. I generally do about 6 or 7 different exercises with 3 sets of 12 reps on each one.

After the weights I do sprint intervals with 15 minutes in total and 6 sprints of 45-60 seconds. The machine tells me that I've burnt around 200 calories, for what it's worth.

For my diet I generally have cereal for breakfast each morning with porridge and fruit/soup/sandwich for lunch and then soup/chicken and potatoes/boiled eggs for dinner.

Obviously there's more to it than that but that's about it in general.

 

[Petrie]

Well for somebody lifting and trying to get cut, you're eating an awful lof of sugar and carbs with cereal, sandwiches, potatoes, etc all throughout your day. You need more green veggies, more protein, and an all around cleaner diet if you want to get those ab cuts.

Figure out how many calories you're eating, and decrease them slightly if you aren't losing, because that's where abs come from.

 

[DragonKnight]

So remember my post about my gf being in starvation mode. She was. Gained about 12 pounds this summer exercising like crazy. I gave her the correct caloric inntake numbers. And shes going to go at it again. I felt so bad for her. She was really down for like three days. She was def eating under her bmr on a reg basis.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

Well for somebody lifting and trying to get cut, you're eating an awful lof of sugar and carbs with cereal, sandwiches, potatoes, etc all throughout your day. You need more green veggies, more protein, and an all around cleaner diet if you want to get those ab cuts.

Figure out how many calories you're eating, and decrease them slightly if you aren't losing, because that's where abs come from.

Oh, I'm losing weight, for sure. I would have thought that I'm probably as thin as is healthy about now though!

I'll try and cut out some of the carbs and sugar and see if that does me some good. I was also thinking of starting to have a protein shake after each gym session. That seems to be a good way to get some protein into my diet.

 

[I'm an expert]

So remember my post about my gf being in starvation mode. She was. Gained about 12 pounds this summer exercising like crazy. I gave her the correct caloric inntake numbers. And shes going to go at it again. I felt so bad for her. She was really down for like three days. She was def eating under her bmr on a reg basis.

She was starving herself and exercising like crazy but gained 12 lbs of fat..?

 

[Tashi]

Went ahead and did back this morning. Legs were still sore but they totally didn't bother my deadlifts so I was happy about that.

Assisted pull ups
Seated Cable rows
Bent over barbell rows
Deadlifts

Preacher curls
seated dumbell curls

Had a real good work out. Went up in weight for just about every exercise since last week. Excited for chest, shoulders and triceps over the weekend.

As for diet, as soon as I woke up it's the usual, oatmeal, 3 eggs and an apple. Post workout I had my creatine and a protein shake. Then I had a light tuna fish can in some wheat bread. Had a serving of Cheddar and Horseradish kettle cooked chips. First time having those chips, they were ok. Jalapeno's are way better. Had some watermelon and grapes with those. So good. I definitely missed fruit the most while I was on my keto diet.

 

[Petrie]

She was starving herself and exercising like crazy but gained 12 lbs of fat..?

I know, it sounds fishy to me too. It sounds more like there's some dishonesty going on somewhere, or some sort of more serious hormonal problem, but I'm not looking to go down that path so good luck.

 

[I'm an expert]

Go back to missing them. Way too much sugar, especially grapes, man stay away from grapes. Do berries if anything because of their powerful health benefits.

 

[Tashi]

Go back to missing them. Way too much sugar, especially grapes, man stay away from grapes. Do berries if anything because of their powerful health benefits.

An apple a day keeps the doctor away right?

I kind of splurged today honestly. I went to the grocery store after the gym and the grapes were like right the main entrance. 99 CENT A POUND!!. I said fuuuuuuuck yeaaa I haven't had grapes in 5 months lol. Then I saw the watermelon for 97 cents and I also said fuck yea to that. I probably won't have any fruit for the rest of the day.

 

[CrankyJay]

An apple a day keeps the doctor away right?

Outdated saying...a penny saved is not a penny earned, it's really lost due to inflation.

 

[Tashi]

Outdated saying...a penny saved is not a penny earned, it's really lost due to inflation.

:lol

 

[SUPARSTARX]

I gotta clean up my diet. I skip breakfast, my lunch is usually a small cold pasta (tuna Mac, potato egg) from the specialty food markets, diet soda (for the zero calorie), an iced coffee here and there. For dinner it's some rice and meat entree with some veggies.

I ran out of protein powder and haven't restocked yet.

 

[CrankyJay]

I gotta clean up my diet. I skip breakfast, my lunch is usually a small cold pasta (tuna Mac, potato egg) from the specialty food markets, diet soda (for the zero calorie), an iced coffee here and there. For dinner it's some rice and meat entree with some veggies.

I ran out of protein powder and haven't restocked yet.

Start eating breakfast...if I could redo my teenage years I wish I never skipped. I usually wasn't hungry or food made me nauseous in the morning. As a result my gym classes suffered and probably my overall look and feel. =(

Ice coffee contain any cream or sugar? Ditch that...you need to eat more meats/fish and green veggies. Tons of green veggies.

Alot of info...so try doing it gradually.

 

[I'm an expert]

Other than bulking I'm actually not a fan of breakfast, at least not an early one. That most important meal of the day stuff is nonsense, and early breakfasts just increase your hunger urges before lunch. Something small around 10 is what always worked for me, not that it means it works for everyone else.

 

[TheDarkStark]

If there's on thing that's holding me back right now (and my whole life) it's my sleep schedule. I need to get to bed earlier. These 4-6 hours of sleep nights are taking their toll.

 

[CrankyJay]

Other than bulking I'm actually not a fan of breakfast, at least not an early one. That most important meal of the day stuff is nonsense, and early breakfasts just increase your hunger urges before lunch. Something small around 10 is what always worked for me, not that it means it works for everyone else.

That's because breakfast is usually consisted of a ton of shitty carbs for people.

When I didn't eat breakfast I would overcompensate and overeat at lunch...that's my personal reasoning.

 

[I'm an expert]

That's because breakfast is usually consisted of a ton of shitty carbs for people.

When I didn't eat breakfast I would overcompensate and overeat at lunch...that's my personal reasoning.

And a bunch of shitty concentrate juices.


Dark, sleep. 4 hours almost makes working out pointless.

 

[CrankyJay]

And a bunch of shitty concentrate juices.

If I could afford it I'd eat ham and eggs or steak and eggs for breakfast every day. =P

 

[DragonKnight]

She was starving herself and exercising like crazy but gained 12 lbs of fat..?

Starvation is a harsh word. She was eating but just not enough. Shes never been a big eater. And she probably gained muscle along the way as well. But her body was holding on to everything. When put put that way 12 pounds doesnt seem out there.

 

[I'm an expert]

Starvation is a harsh word. She was eating but just not enough. Shes never been a big eater. And she probably gained muscle along the way as well. But her body was holding on to everything. When put put that way 12 pounds doesnt seem out there.

But you can't... meh nevermind.

 

[TheDarkStark]

Dark, sleep. 4 hours almost makes working out pointless.

Easier said than done my friend. I work 8-5 (sometimes leave a bit later), I come home eat a snack and change. I'm at the gym around 6-7 usually lift for about an hour, get home around 7:30-8:30 eat dinner at 8 or 9.

So in a perfect world I'd be in bed by like 12 oclock, which would give me about 7 hours sleep. But that just doesn't happen, I have a very active mind, hard to shut it off, if I'm not dead tired I'll lay awake thinking about shit for hours. Especially only big compound lift days like squats and deads, my endorphin's are still coursing through my body, full of energy, tough to sleep.

I guess I could go straight from work to the gym, but that's tough, I'd need more time to get ready in the morning.

 

[twofold]

Didn't feel like going to the gym at all this morning. I was quite tempted to skip out and have a "rest day" but I forced myself to go. Was supposed to do 120kg x6 on my deadlift -- ended up doing it easily so I added some more weight on. And then a bit more. And then a bit more after that. Ended up pulling 140kg x4 in the end, which puts me ever closer to my goal of having a 4 plate deadlift. I'm so glad I ended up going today!

I need some advice, btw. I've been doing incline sit ups while holding an increasingly heavier kettlebell as a finisher after doing my lifts. Today, I did 3 sets of 20 while holding a 24kg bell and it was super easy, so I want to move on to something more difficult. Any recommendations?

 

[CrankyJay]

Didn't feel like going to the gym at all this morning. I was quite tempted to skip out and have a "rest day" but I forced myself to go. Was supposed to do 120kg x6 on my deadlift -- ended up doing it easily so I added some more weight on. And then a bit more. And then a bit more after that. Ended up pulling 140kg x4 in the end, which puts me ever closer to my goal of having a 4 plate deadlift. I'm so glad I ended up going today!

Nice man. I've had days like that. Don't feel like going at all, force myself to go anyway, and end up having an amazing workout.

 

[DragonKnight]

But you can't... meh nevermind.

Gain muscle on a calorie deficit? We arent talking about arnold here. And yes. Eat under ur bmr and ur body starts storing fat like cray.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I need some advice, btw. I've been doing incline sit ups while holding an increasingly heavier kettlebell as a finisher after doing my lifts. Today, I did 3 sets of 20 while holding a 24kg bell and it was super easy, so I want to move on to something more difficult. Any recommendations?

Cable pull downs?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d36Cwe8Zgls

 

[bro1]

Didn't feel like going to the gym at all this morning. I was quite tempted to skip out and have a "rest day" but I forced myself to go. Was supposed to do 120kg x6 on my deadlift -- ended up doing it easily so I added some more weight on. And then a bit more. And then a bit more after that. Ended up pulling 140kg x4 in the end, which puts me ever closer to my goal of having a 4 plate deadlift. I'm so glad I ended up going today!

I need some advice, btw. I've been doing incline sit ups while holding an increasingly heavier kettlebell as a finisher after doing my lifts. Today, I did 3 sets of 20 while holding a 24kg bell and it was super easy, so I want to move on to something more difficult. Any recommendations?

Hanging leg raises with a dumbell between your feet.

Did Military Presses this morning, and just military presses. I'm resetting my weights, so I did 135X5 for 10 sets and 3 sets of 165x3.

Then did a 30 minute swim. Tomorrow is a brick workout; 20K bike and a 5K run.

 

[TheCrow]

Gain muscle on a calorie deficit? We arent talking about arnold here. And yes. Eat under ur bmr and ur body starts storing fat like cray.

Sure your body will try to keep the fat on you and it will slow your metabolism down but you shouldn't be putting on weight. I'm eating under BMR (probably closer to "starvation" than your gf) right now and I'm losing weight.

 

[I'm an expert]

Gain muscle on a calorie deficit? We arent talking about arnold here. And yes. Eat under ur bmr and ur body starts storing fat like cray.

I disagree with all that but I'd just be citing personal experiences which doesn't hold much on the internet.

 

[CrankyJay]

Gain muscle on a calorie deficit? We arent talking about arnold here. And yes. Eat under ur bmr and ur body starts storing fat like cray.

Depends how low...some of her calories should have been from cutting back on food, the rest from exercise. You also do no favors if you overexert yourself and get no rest.

 

[DragonKnight]

By bmr i mean the amount of cals u need a day to survive. The bare minimum. No activitu multipliers. And her personal experience this summer is enough to prove it.

 

[DragonKnight]

Sure your body will try to keep the fat on you and it will slow your metabolism down but you shouldn't be putting on weight. I'm eating under BMR (probably closer to "starvation" than your gf) right now and I'm losing weight.

If you are eating less than ur body requires living a sedentary lifestyle then you arent doing yourself any favors.

Her caloric burn per day is 2600.
Her bmr is 1600.
She probably averaged less than 1200 a day. Thats starvation mode. Too great a deficit.

 

[CrankyJay]

By bmr i mean the amount of cals u need a day to survive. The bare minimum. No activitu multipliers. And her personal experience this summer is enough to prove it.

I think you're misinterpreting what BMR is...I don't need 2300 calories a day to survive at a bare minimum.

 

[DragonKnight]

I think you're misinterpreting what BMR is...I don't need 2300 calories a day to survive at a bare minimum.

No im not. Bmr is the bare minimum amount you need to survive. Ur daily caloric intake is what changes depending on ur activity levels. Check my edit.

 

[TheCrow]

If you are eating less than ur body requires living a sedentary lifestyle then you arent doing yourself any favors.

Isn't the whole starvation mode a myth?

I completely understand the risks that I'm taking so I'm doing it the right way. It's a very detailed diet (Rapid Fat Loss) that I'm doing by the book. 200 grams of protein a day along with around than 10 grams of trace carbs and fats. All in all it's about 900 calories and I'm finally losing weight after being stuck at 125 for 3 weeks. Currently 121 as of this morning.

 

[DragonKnight]

Ur a male eating less than a thousand cals a day. Thats extreme. At what height is 125lbs overweight?

 

[abuC]

Lost more weight, but also had a serious loss of strength yesterday that almost resulted in me smashing my face in with dumbells on incline bench. I don't know if it was fatigue, or I lost some strength because it was weight I handled pretty easily the week before.

 

[I'm an expert]

Hey as long as those lbs went to the right places, who cares right?

 

[TheCrow]

Ur a male eating less than a thousand cals a day. Thats extreme. At what height is 125lbs overweight?

Never said I was overweight, and I'm 5'5 if I'm lucky. It's a short term diet to finish off my cut before I begin bulking. Just want to get as lean as possible before I start slowly putting on muscle.

 

[DragonKnight]

A short term deficit like that can produce those results. For a very short time. After that ur metabolism slows and the fat storing begins. Now imagine eating that way for five months while doing taxing activity

 

[CrankyJay]

A short term deficit like that can produce those results. For a very short time. After that ur metabolism slows and the fat storing begins.

I guess that's why so many starving children in Africa are obese.

I don't think starvation mode plays as big a role as you think.

 

[Petrie]

By bmr i mean the amount of cals u need a day to survive. The bare minimum. No activitu multipliers. And her personal experience this summer is enough to prove it.

You just aren't willing to consider that your overweight g/f may have been hiding how much she was eating from you.


To the above though, at that amount of calories, you are definitely burning throug muscle, which on the whole is just causing you more work later. More power to you, but just seems a bit silly.

 

[Veezy]

A short term deficit like that can produce those results. For a very short time. After that ur metabolism slows and the fat storing begins.

Not entirely.


When you eat, your metabolism speeds up to digest the food. When you don't, it slows down. Timing just determines what is used for your day to day living, which is why IF works the way it does.

If you don't eat for a long time and all of a sudden gorge on some food, it's not like all of it becomes more prone to being processed into fat. It becomes processed into... whatever it is. Fat to fat, carbs to glycogen store, protein to muscular recuperation.

If you are eating less than ur body requires living a sedentary lifestyle then you arent doing yourself any favors.

Her caloric burn per day is 2600.
Her bmr is 1600.
She probably averaged less than 1200 a day. Thats starvation mode. Too great a deficit.

Forgive me, how in the hell is she adding an additional 2600 kcal to her daily expenditure?

 

[I'm an expert]

You just aren't willing to consider that your overweight g/f may have been hiding how much she was eating from you.

God damn, leave it to Petrie the cyborg to handle business. I didn't want to say it myself, but do you spend most of your day with your girl? Perhaps she's a late night snacker or not as clean with her diet as she leads on to be. Point is, she wasn't working out crazy and watching her calories if she put on 12 lbs. Maybe the scale's broken?

 

[DragonKnight]

You just aren't willing to consider that your overweight g/f may have been hiding how much she was eating from you.


To the above though, at that amount of calories, you are definitely burning throug muscle, which on the whole is just causing you more work later. More power to you, but just seems a bit silly.

That isnt the case here. And starving kids i africa? They are in extreme starvation mode and dont eat. Food doesnt even get a chance to turn to fat. Their
bodies are too busy eating itself.

 

[TheDarkStark]

God damn, leave it to Petrie the cyborg to handle business. I didn't want to say it myself, but do you spend most of your day with your girl? Perhaps she's a late night snacker or not as clean with her diet as she leads on to be. Point is, she wasn't working out crazy and watching her calories if she put on 12 lbs. Maybe the scale's broken?

Clearly she's pregnant.