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[Cudder]

Creatine is in no way going to make or break your fitness. Lifting heavy, eating enough calories and protein (which usually includes taking whey), and sleeping enough take you 95% of the way, yet supplements for that 5% difference usually account for 95% of the consideration and discussion in the fitness community instead of 5%. It's a silly trap to fall into.

As far as those secondary supplements go, though, creatine is the most proven and significant of the bunch for helping your lifts, and fish oil is the most proven and significant for general health benefits (cardiovascular health, assisting in shedding fat when coupled with cardio, even psychological health).

So if you're concerned with that sort of stuff, drop the 5g of creatine into your blender with your protein shake and don't concern yourself with anything else. I tell everyone to take fish oil though. Omega-3:Omega-6 ratios are super important for your health, and unless you're eating free-range everything you're likely barely getting any in your diet.

I know creatine isn't some magical steroid or mass gainer, I'm just curious as to when to expect to see that small increase in weight or reps at the gym, or the slightly bigger muscles due to the water retention. As far as I'm concerned, allowing you to do a couple extra reps could be chalked up to having a "good day" at the gym. Sometimes I do do an extra couple reps for an exercise than I usually do, so I'm not sure where sleeping well/eating well ends and the creatine "help" starts to take over, know what I'm saying?

I took fish oil (orange flavoured, yuck) a little while ago but never re-upped when I finished the bottle. S'pose you could also just drop a tablespoon of that along with creatine into your protein shake?

 

[Necrovex]

Never knew that about Fish Oil. I went ahead and ordered myself a bottle, since I know I barely get any Omega 3 in my diet.

I plan to start hitting the gym again this week. I plan to use my university's gym during my break period. If I don't get into this teaching abroad program, I'll have to be back into shape to pass the sheriff's department physical test.

 

[CrankyJay]

Just a meta-analysis, not a controlled study; the meta-analyses have gone in both directions with regards to heart disease prevention, but what we can observe directly, at least, is that omega-3 intake lowers triglyceride levels, which should be a good thing.

There's enough that we have direct observation of -- like the above, and it massively increasing body fat loss among people doing cardio -- that I'm comfortable using it no matter what the meta-analysis of the day is.

Despite all that, I'll take it even for the supposed placebo effect they're claiming.

 

[EviLore]

Just to source the creatine talk:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12701815

Short-term creatine supplementation (e.g. 20 g/day for 5-7 days) has typically been reported to increase total creatine content by 10-30% and phosphocreatine stores by 10-40%. Of the approximately 300 studies that have evaluated the potential ergogenic value of creatine supplementation, about 70% of these studies report statistically significant results while remaining studies generally report non-significant gains in performance. No study reports a statistically significant ergolytic effect. For example, short-term creatine supplementation has been reported to improve maximal power/strength (5-15%), work performed during sets of maximal effort muscle contractions (5-15%), single-effort sprint performance (1-5%), and work performed during repetitive sprint performance (5-15%). Moreover, creatine supplementation during training has been reported to promote significantly greater gains in strength, fat free mass, and performance primarily of high intensity exercise tasks. Although not all studies report significant results, the preponderance of scientific evidence indicates that creatine supplementation appears to be a generally effective nutritional ergogenic aid for a variety of exercise tasks in a number of athletic and clinical populations.

 

[Chittagong]

My bottom of the range strength in squat is shit, so my range suffers a lot when I go up on weights. Would doing bodyweight 'ass cheeks on the heels' style deep squats every morning help?

 

[Noema]

My bottom of the range strength in squat is shit, so my range suffers a lot when I go up on weights. Would doing bodyweight 'ass cheeks on the heels' style deep squats every morning help?

http://70sbig.com/blog/2011/02/3-stretches/

http://70sbig.com/blog/2011/06/mobility-basics/

In a nutshell, the "couch stretch" is probably your best friend.

 

[luckyboyceo]

I know creatine isn't some magical steroid or mass gainer, I'm just curious as to when to expect to see that small increase in weight or reps at the gym, or the slightly bigger muscles due to the water retention. As far as I'm concerned, allowing you to do a couple extra reps could be chalked up to having a "good day" at the gym. Sometimes I do do an extra couple reps for an exercise than I usually do, so I'm not sure where sleeping well/eating well ends and the creatine "help" starts to take over, know what I'm saying?

I took fish oil (orange flavoured, yuck) a little while ago but never re-upped when I finished the bottle. S'pose you could also just drop a tablespoon of that along with creatine into your protein shake?

It's hard to say. I attribute that small, extra push that I get at the end of my sets to my creatine intake, but I have no idea whether or not that's actually true. Regardless, I'll keep telling myself that, cause whether it is or not, it's been working.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I personally take a multivitamin (just one a day though, not 3 like the bottle says), fish oil, magnesium, and creatine. The only other thing I "do" is whey protein.

7 reps @ 250 for bench. Prolly test my real 1RM at the end of February before doing Smolov Jr. in March.

*flexes*

Also, thanks for the creatine talk. I need to get some more.

Nice bud, soon you'll be doing 3 plates.

 

[Chittagong]

http://70sbig.com/blog/2011/02/3-stretches/

http://70sbig.com/blog/2011/06/mobility-basics/

In a nutshell, the "couch stretch" is probably your best friend.

Ha, I didn't think of stretching as the answer, just figured that I need more strength in some muscle I am not normally activating to go lower. Thanks for sharing the video, it's really helpful.

 

[Mully]

WOOOOO

I've been powering through my third set goals of 5/3/1 on each lift since I've started. If my goal is 8, I push myself to 9. There's really no other feeling like putting the bar back on the rack and knowing there's a new rep record for that weight.

I know I'm only in the middle of my second cycle, but I can't praise 5/3/1 enough. Everyday I'm scheduled to have a session, I'm excited to get to the gym and beat an old rep record. I love the simple structure, instead of just aimlessly going through five or six exercises and feeling like I'm just "working out."

Fuck that sounded "bro".

 

[balddemon]

WOOOOO

I've been powering through my third set goals of 5/3/1 on each lift since I've started. If my goal is 8, I push myself to 9. There's really no other feeling like putting the bar back on the rack and knowing there's a new rep record for that weight.

I know I'm only in the middle of my second cycle, but I can't praise 5/3/1 enough. Everyday I'm scheduled to have a session, I'm excited to get to the gym and beat an old rep record.

Fuck that sounded "bro".

lol who cares, I'm about as bro as they come (minus the fashion "sense" of a bro and I guess the weightlifting aspect, although I do flex in the mirror while joking around with coworkers ). it's not a bad thing.

also, I figured out why my lower back was so fucking tight while trying to run: tight hamstrings. so I foam rolled my lower back, hamstrings, quads, and calves. also stretched my hams and quads and did some abs. feel much more loose and way better now. the strange thing is, my back never bothers me while playing basketball or doing sprints, just while trying to run for distance.

 

[FallingEdge]

Nice bud, soon you'll be doing 3 plates.

Hope so man. I'm getting close. I really feel like for my weight, I should be pushing more volume =/

 

[Mully]

lol who cares, I'm about as bro as they come (minus the fashion "sense" of a bro and I guess the weightlifting aspect, although I do flex in the mirror while joking around with coworkers ). it's not a bad thing.

also, I figured out why my lower back was so fucking tight while trying to run: tight hamstrings. so I rolled my lower back, hamstrings, quads, and calves. also stretched my hams and quads and did some abs. feel much more loose and way better now. the strange thing is, my back never bothers me while playing basketball or doing sprints, just while trying to run for distance.

Sounds like it might be your posture in general or maybe scoliosis.

Spoiler

It's actually stage 4 all over cancer.

 

[rando14]

I wish I could bench 3 plates. Too small

 

[Spiritreaver]

Nice bud, soon you'll be doing 3 plates.

*high five* Keep at it FE. I'm around the corner from 3 plates on my incline, I'm pretty stoked!

 

[FallingEdge]

*high five* Keep at it FE. I'm around the corner from 3 plates on my incline, I'm pretty stoked!

3 plates on incline? God damn. I don't think I have ever seen anyone at my gym do even 2. Yeah, that is damn impressive.

I feel like I want to implement incline but again, that will be after Smolov Jr. March will be my final big push towards strength before trying to gain muscle while losing fat. More on a focus on size. A tough struggle but fuck it, gotta get ready for Short Shorts July and EVO in Vegas.

CMON BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. TIME TO GET MY DARTH ON. LOOK AT MY QUADS!

 

[Mully]

Lol. Go for it Falling Edge.

 

[balddemon]

Sounds like it might be your posture in general or maybe scoliosis.

Spoiler

It's actually stage 4 all over cancer.

It also never bothered me in high school when I ran cross country and track. It could definitely have something to do with posture, I'm at my computer a lot.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

If anyone is interested, I actually dialed back my routine. WAY back. I took 85% of my 1rep maxes (after my cut) so my intensity is exceedingly low, but the volume rose to compensate. I also cut out all extra work that doesn't have a specific purpose. If it's not working towards a "good" goal, it's out.

It's gonna be a while before I hit weights I was hitting before, but it also feels good to be re-establishing good technique and putting up a crapload of reps.

Also, threw in weighted decline situps for the first time today. Yowza.

I wish I could bench 3 plates. Too small

Get big, push all the weights.

3 plates on incline? God damn. I don't think I have ever seen anyone at my gym do even 2. Yeah, that is damn impressive.

I feel like I want to implement incline but again, that will be after Smolov Jr. March will be my final big push towards strength before trying to gain muscle while losing fat. More on a focus on size. A tough struggle but fuck it, gotta get ready for Short Shorts July and EVO in Vegas.

CMON BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. TIME TO GET MY DARTH ON. LOOK AT MY QUADS!

I like incline a lot, but I try to go for high reps. I don't like going heavy on incline at all. I save that for OHP. Mad respect for guys putting up heavy weight on incline though.

 

[Dash27]

Alien did you post what you did for your cut mentioned above? I'm due to get serious on it in a few weeks.

 

[SeanR1221]

Took a picture and compared it to the last one I had. Holy shit what a difference. Deleted it though. Waiting until the end of the cycle to have a true before and after.

 

[MiicD]

CMON BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. TIME TO GET MY DARTH ON. LOOK AT MY QUADS!

Prepare to buy new pants we well, haha... you're ass is going to get bigger by the way.

I blew out the ass in my pants at work while lifting boxes lol

Them squats and lunges just making us go shopping.. fuck clothes buy chicken and wear snuggies haha

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Alien did you post what you did for your cut mentioned above? I'm due to get serious on it in a few weeks.

I used myfitnesspal to track my food and ate around 1300-1500 calories a day with a macro of 40/40/20 (carb/protein/fat). I did that for about 3 months. Went from 245 down to 218. I'm back at 232 right now, but considerably leaner still. That cut stalled me and set me back a little strength wise. Not much though.

I'm in the middle of experimenting with what I "know" about carb backloading right now. I might end up getting the book here soon.

Prepare to buy new pants we well, haha... you're ass is going to get bigger by the way.

I blew out the ass in my pants at work while lifting boxes lol

Them squats and lunges just making us go shopping.. fuck clothes buy chicken and wear snuggies haha

He's been at this a while, he's well versed in squat booty and "loose/size up" pants.

 

[MjFrancis]

I'm not at 100% by a long shot, but the deload week (which turned into rest week!) is over. Just week 1 5/3/1 squats, 5x10 afterwards and 3x10 straight-leg deads. Good enough. Time for dinner.

Broccoli beef - 12oz beef & just shy of 1 cup brown rice.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I'm not at 100% by a long shot, but the deload week (which turned into rest week!) is over. Just week 1 5/3/1 squats, 5x10 afterwards and 3x10 straight-leg deads. Good enough. Time for dinner.

Broccoli beef - 12oz beef & just shy of 1 cup brown rice.

You had me at Beef and Broccoli. One of my favorite meals ever.

 

[Mully]

For the 5/3/1 guys, what are the go-to assistance exercises you do besides BBB?

 

[MiicD]

I used myfitnesspal to track my food and ate around 1300-1500 calories a day with a macro of 40/40/20 (carb/protein/fat). I did that for about 3 months. Went from 240 down to 218. I'm back at 232 right now, but considerably leaner still. That cut stalled me and set me back a little strength wise. Not much though.

I went from 192 to 167 for my show and it still surprises me in those last weeks how weak you start to feel. Strength came right back and now I am sitting at 208 lifting more than ever.

I almost thought about starting a cycle and see the difference when cutting weight it would make but decided against it.

 

[Cudder]

I used myfitnesspal to track my food and ate around 1300-1500 calories a day with a macro of 40/40/20 (carb/protein/fat). I did that for about 3 months. Went from 245 down to 218. I'm back at 232 right now, but considerably leaner still. That cut stalled me and set me back a little strength wise. Not much though.

omg, I don't think I could ever eat only 1300 cals a day. even 1970 calories which is what MFP says I need to eat to lose a pound a week I feel like I'm starving.

Was it easy for you? You're a big dude, how hard was it? Be honest.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

For the 5/3/1 guys, what are the go-to assistance exercises you do besides BBB?

I'll give you mine, but your assistance should be selected based on your own goals and your own reasons.

Squat
Good Morning 5 set of 10
Front squat 5 set of 10
Weighted situps (started these today)

Benchpress
Incline bench press 5 set 10
Pendlay row 5 set 10
Pullups 5-6 set of 10
Weighted dips 5 set of 10 (or how many I can hit)
Supersetted barbell curls (with dips)
Later in the day shoulder complex

Deadlift
Romanian Deadlift 5 set of 10
Front squat reduced weight 5 set of 10
Weighted situps

Military press
Tbar row 5 set of 10
Pullups 5+ set of 10
Db benchpress 5 set of 10
Lying tricep extension 5 set of 10 (or howmany I can hit)
Superset (with LTE) incline DB curls.
Later in the day shoulder complex

I also do neck work with a harness throughout the week.

omg, I don't think I could ever eat only 1300 cals a day. even 1970 calories which is what MFP says I need to eat to lose a pound a week I feel like I'm starving.

Was it easy for you? You're a big dude, how hard was it? Be honest.

Really hard, it's gonna take every bit of willpower you have, especially if your family lives with you. My wife was more or less eating normal while I did this. Even watching TV when people ate made me crave carbs/food.

 

[EviLore]

Under 2000/day and I get chronic headaches, weakness, light-headedness. Even when I was strict and dropping down from 300 lbs I stuck with 2000 kcal and just exercised as much as I could.

 

[Petrie]

Under 2000/day and I get chronic headaches, weakness, light-headedness. Even when I was strict and dropping down from 300 lbs I stuck with 2000 kcal and just exercised as much as I could.

Yeah, I'd rather load on the cardio. Having a job where I'm constantly on my feet makes it easier though. Waiting tables/bartending FTW.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Yeah, I'd rather load on the cardio. Having a job where I'm constantly on my feet makes it easier though. Waiting tables/bartending FTW.

I did that too. I was biking my ass off and still lifting while on that cut.

 

[SeanR1221]

Alien, 1300-1500 before or after your workouts were taken into account?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Sorry went back and looked. I was consistently hitting about 1800-1900 calories. Not 1300-1500. My mistake.

Alien, 1300-1500 before or after your workouts were taken into account?

Not counting workouts, but I just went back to clarify.

 

[Mully]

I'm just going for as much size and strength as I can get prior to my cut, which I've decided to postpone until March (that'll be a little less than 4 months).

Right now I'm doing:

OHP
BBB OHP
Dips

Deadlift
BBB DL
BB Curls

Bench
BBB Bench
BB Rows

Squat
BBB Squat
Leg Curls

Each assistance exercise, is 5X10 (15 for leg curls to rehab hamstrings). I find it pretty good, but I'm nervous I'm missing a muscle group and I'll really screw myself over a few months from now. Should I skip BBB a few times a cycle and incorporate some of your routine to achieve those goals?

 

[SeanR1221]

Sorry went back and looked. I was consistently hitting about 1800-1900 calories. Not 1300-1500. My mistake.



Not counting workouts, but I just went back to clarify.

Still, that's really good. Nice job man.

 

[EviLore]

I ate 1500 calories in girl scout thin mints yesterday.

SWOLETROPHY!

 

[ACE 1991]

So when is the right time to stop doing Strong Lifts? I've been doing the program since mid-late December so it is obviously too early to stop now, but I would like to move on to a routine more centered around building muscle rather than strength once I have a good base.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I'm just going for as much size and strength as I can get prior to my cut, which I've decided to postpone until March (that'll be a little less than 4 months).

Right now I'm doing:

OHP
BBB OHP
Dips

Deadlift
BBB DL
BB Curls

Bench
BBB Bench
BB Rows

Squat
BBB Squat
Leg Curls

Each assistance exercise, is 5X10 (15 for leg curls to rehab hamstrings). I find it pretty good, but I'm nervous I'm missing a muscle group and I'll really screw myself over a few months from now. Should I skip BBB a few times a cycle and incorporate some of your routine to achieve those goals?

If that's all you're doing I would say you're neglecting back. I would to 2x the back work you do for bench/OHP

I ate 1500 calories in girl scout thin mints yesterday.

SWOLETROPHY!

Dude I got thin mints and tagalongs in route.

Nom.

Still, that's really good. Nice job man.

Thanks it was pretty rough, and I'll never do it again. ( I say that now, lol).

 

[Mully]

If that's all you're doing I would say you're neglecting back. I would to 2x the back work you do for bench/OHP



Dude I got thin mints and tagalongs in route.

Nom.

Great, I'll add DB rows to OHP day and lat pulls to Bench day.

 

[sphinx]

Weighted dips 5 set of 10 (or how many I can hit)

how do you put extra weight on the dips? with a dumbbell or is it something else?

and to everyone, how do you guys do weighted hanging leg raises?. I specifically brought a small 10 lbs dumbbell to the dip machine, put it on the floor, tried to grab it with the feet but I failed so bad, lol I either couldn't lift the legs or the dumbbell would slip through it.

I have no idea how to add weight to my HLR, any help or tip is appreciated.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Great, I'll add DB rows to OHP day and lat pulls to Bench day.

Can't hurt to throw some supersetted band pull aparts in after benching/OHP either. Those rubber things are always in gyms and if not you can typically get some good bands cheap at EFTS.

how do you put extra weight on the dips? with a dumbbell or is it something else?

and to everyone, how do you guys do weighted hanging leg raises?. I specifically brought a small 10 lbs dumbbell to the dip machine, put it on the floor, tried to grab it with the feet but I failed so bad, lol I either couldn't lift the legs or the dumbbell would slip through it.

I have no idea how to add weight to my HLR, any help or tip is appreciated.

I bought a leather dip belt; I run the chain through the plates.

 

[Mully]

Can't hurt to throw some supersetted band pull aparts in after benching/OHP either. Those rubber things are always in gyms and if not you can typically get some good bands cheap at EFTS.



I bought a leather dip belt; I run the chain through the plates.

Noted. I'll add that to bench day.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I ate 1500 calories in girl scout thin mints yesterday.

SWOLETROPHY!

Great, now my tummy feels deprived again.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Great, now my tummy feels deprived again.

Pizza, cookies, bacon, bacon wrapped cookies, bacon wrapped pizza cookies. Bacon wrapped beefaroni bacon.

Take that you lean fuck!

 

[Dash27]

For the 5/3/1 guys, what are the go-to assistance exercises you do besides BBB?

Barbell Curls, Rack Pulls, Close Grip Bench, weighted chins. For my main squat I'm doing low bar, and for assistance I do High Bar on power clean/deadlift day.

Also do the occasional prowler pushes and atlas stone stuff to keep it fun.

 

[MjFrancis]

For the 5/3/1 guys, what are the go-to assistance exercises you do besides BBB?

For the last few cycles I did sumo deadlifts 5x5 instead of 5x10 squats. The exercise choice is dictated by my equipment: Olympic bars, bumper plates and a squat rack. Honestly, of all the equipment I had access to in a commercial gym, I miss the dip stand and the leg press. The dip stand was awesome because fuck all if I'll do kipping ring dips. Also the leg press is just pure fun. Get over it squat bros.

Monday

• Squat – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Squat - 5 sets of 10 reps
• Straight-leg deadlift - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
• Hanging leg raises - 5 sets of 6-12 reps

Wednesday

• Press – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Rows - 5 sets of 5 reps
• CGBP - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
• Pull-ups - x sets up to 60 reps

Friday

• Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Squat - 5 sets of 5 reps
• Good mornings - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
• Hanging leg raises - 5 sets of 6-12 reps

Sunday

• Bench Press - 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Chins - 3-5 sets of 4-8 reps (weighted)
• CGBP - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
• Pull-ups - x sets up to 60 reps

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Damn, our setup is pretty similar MJ.

Barbell Curls, Rack Pulls, Close Grip Bench, weighted chins. For my main squat I'm doing low bar, and for assistance I do High Bar on power clean/deadlift day.

Also do the occasional prowler pushes and atlas stone stuff to keep it fun.

I hope to get away with a prowler when I get my new house. Gonna have to make sure the city is OK with it and my neighbors are too.
That and a 100lb (ish) weight vest should do the trick. For my "cardio."

 

[Dash27]

I used myfitnesspal to track my food and ate around 1300-1500 calories a day with a macro of 40/40/20 (carb/protein/fat). I did that for about 3 months. Went from 245 down to 218. I'm back at 232 right now, but considerably leaner still. That cut stalled me and set me back a little strength wise. Not much though.

I'm in the middle of experimenting with what I "know" about carb backloading right now. I might end up getting the book here soon.

Ok thanks. I saw your update of 1800-1900. Right now I'm in the middle of trying Paleo for 30 days, not really "low carb" but definitely lower than I'm used to and no counting. So far I'm losing slowly but steady and strength gains are still coming. I know when I get down to 12 or 13% bf it's going to get a lot harder so I'll have to probably start counting cals.

 

[Dash27]

I hope to get away with a prowler when I get my new house. Gonna have to make sure the city is OK with it and my neighbors are too.
That and a 100lb (ish) weight vest should do the trick. For my "cardio."

I found the prowler to be very, very humbling. Definitely something you have to experience!