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[Mr.City]

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/platform_the_squat_bar_position

 

[TheExodu5]

I don't think my shoulder is flexible enough to get my arms/wrists in a proper position for squats. Even putting the squat bar in the right position results in me straining quite a bit to get my hands on the bar.

 

[Price Dalton]

I need some advice on squats.

I began starting strength a little over a month ago. My squat started at a paltry 105 and I've worked my way up to 160. However, a couple problems have come up with higher weights. I have freakishly long forearms, so I can't properly place my hands around the bar as outlined in starting strength. This results in weight being placed on my wrists, so when I tried 165 today I simply couldn't perform squats due to accumulating wrist pain. One solution would be to raise my arms back higher to create a better shelf for the bar to sit on, but I have a catch at the bottom of my right shoulder (I've had it for years) than prevents me from moving that arm far enough back. Not sure how to get the weight off my wrists without further compromising form.

What's the best thing to do? I can do all the other lifts just fine, so should I just skip squats until my wrists heal or do squats at lower weight for a while? Any good exercises to strengthen wrists? In addition to bench press, overhead press, deadlift and power clean I do pullups, lying tricep extensions and incline dumbell curls. Maybe that's enough for my wrists already.

Thanks.

How about try high bar or front squats?

 

[Cheeto]

I need some advice on squats.

I began starting strength a little over a month ago. My squat started at a paltry 105 and I've worked my way up to 160. However, a couple problems have come up with higher weights. I have freakishly long forearms, so I can't properly place my hands around the bar as outlined in starting strength. This results in weight being placed on my wrists, so when I tried 165 today I simply couldn't perform squats due to accumulating wrist pain. One solution would be to raise my arms back higher to create a better shelf for the bar to sit on, but I have a catch at the bottom of my right shoulder (I've had it for years) than prevents me from moving that arm far enough back. Not sure how to get the weight off my wrists without further compromising form.

What's the best thing to do? I can do all the other lifts just fine, so should I just skip squats until my wrists heal or do squats at lower weight for a while? Any good exercises to strengthen wrists? In addition to bench press, overhead press, deadlift and power clean I do pullups, lying tricep extensions and incline dumbell curls. Maybe that's enough for my wrists already.

Thanks.

Have you tried to put your hands as wide as possible on the bar? This is actually very important

 

[Petrie]

How about try high bar or front squats?

I'd go high bar. Front ignores too many of those back of the leg muscles (I know it hits them, but nowhere near hard enough.)

 

[grumble]

Have you tried to put your hands as wide as possible on the bar? This is actually very important

Sorry? A wide grip on the bar in the absence of significant muscle and experience won't fly. You'll lose the shelf and you can round your back easily.

As narrow as it comfortable is good, and wrists over the bar not under to keep untrained people from using their wrists to hold it up and hurt themselves.

If flexibility is an issue, go wider. Narrow gradually over time.

 

[muntersaur]

I'd go high bar. Front ignores too many of those back of the leg muscles (I know it hits them, but nowhere near hard enough.)

I'm mainly only doing front squats (with some safety bar squats thrown in) and they are going to be my favoured squatting variation for the rest of my training career. All it means is including other exercises which emphasise the posterior chain such as deadlifts, good mornings and leg curls to balance things out.

 

[Cheeto]

Sorry? A wide grip on the bar in the absence of significant muscle and experience won't fly. You'll lose the shelf and you can round your back easily.

As narrow as it comfortable is good, and wrists over the bar not under to keep untrained people from using their wrists to hold it up and hurt themselves.

If flexibility is an issue, go wider. Narrow gradually over time.

If you don't use a wide grip in your squats, you will inevitably injure your elbow.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

If you don't use a wide grip in your squats, you will inevitably injure your elbow.

Not if you use proper low bar, also, wide grip is the opposite of what most people should be doing at least in my opinion.

The closer the grip, the better.

Also, refer back to these.

Watch these too.

So you think you can squat 1


So you think you can squat 2


So you think you can squat 3


So you think you can squat 4


So you think you can squat 5

 

[justjustin]

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/platform_the_squat_bar_position

Wow, all right. That video just saved me from travelling down the road to tendinitis. I've simply had the bar too low on my back when squatting. I'm just going to go back to the gym tomorrow and get a good handle on bar position. I tend to assume the worst and make things more complicated than they have to be, especially with things I'm unfamiliar with. Thanks for the tips everyone. I probably will have to start out wider at first due to flexibility issues and my forearm length, but I feel like I know what to do now. The squat really strikes me as being the most technical of all the lifts, so I'm not surprised I didn't catch everything when reading Starting Strength.

 

[Cheeto]

Not if you use proper low bar, also, wide grip is the opposite of what most people should be doing at least in my opinion.

The closer the grip, the better.

Also, refer back to these.

I refer to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUTcYA9daoE&list=UUFNW3_s5KJLIR6IsMYb4-2Q&index=6&feature=plcp

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8VXVPdaHZk

 

[Price Dalton]

I'm mainly only doing front squats (with some safety bar squats thrown in) and they are going to be my favoured squatting variation for the rest of my training career. All it means is including other exercises which emphasise the posterior chain such as deadlifts, good mornings and leg curls to balance things out.

Me too. I'm sticking with front squats exclusively. They just feel so natural. I figure RDLs can balance everything out (although truth be told, front squats seem to hit my glutes and hamstrings about as well as low-bar ever did).

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I refer to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUTcYA9daoE&list=UUFNW3_s5KJLIR6IsMYb4-2Q&index=6&feature=plcp

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8VXVPdaHZk

Then you know Dave is only talking about doing that when you're trying to heal up an elbow. Also, at the end he's talking about a longer barbell, which I doubt anyone else here has access to.

Bottom line here is I doubt anyone is an experienced powerlifter here. Telling them to move their grip out as wide as possible is a recipe for disaster (for them) in my opinion.

Either way, do you.

 

[Cheeto]

Then you know Dave is only talking about doing that when you're trying to heal up an elbow. Also, at the end he's talking about a longer barbell bar, which I doubt anyone else here has access to.

Either way, do you.

Dave's comment is in the context of healing, but the cause is still the same. I'm just saying, I hurt my elbow pretty bad and just recently figured out it was from squatting. I don't want to see anyone else hurt it too because it sucks. Most people can keep a wide-grip low-bar position, and if they don't have the muscle they can do high-bar until they do.

 

[muntersaur]

Me too. I'm sticking with front squats exclusively. They just feel so natural. I figure RDLs can balance everything out (although truth be told, front squats seem to hit my glutes and hamstrings about as well as low-bar ever did).

I agree completely with how natural the front squat feels, plus there is something really fun in trying to stabilise the weight in the front rack position.

I'm not sure about hamstrings but the only thing that hits my glutes as hard or harder than resting ass to calves in the front squat position is the barbell hip thrust and the Bulgarian split squat.

The only problem with the front squat is the inability to do high reps with a heavy weight which is why I've added in the safety bar squat (it feels similar to a front squat and has a strong element of stabilisation in the hole) and the deficit trapbar deadlift (ass to calves) as assistance. The latter is an amazing way to smoke the quadriceps at the end of a workout!

 

[Price Dalton]

I agree completely with how natural the front squat feels, plus there is something really fun in trying to stabilise the weight in the front rack position.

I'm not sure about hamstrings but the only thing that hits my glutes as hard or harder than resting ass to calves in the front squat position is the barbell hip thrust and the Bulgarian split squat.

The only problem with the front squat is the inability to do high reps with a heavy weight which is why I've added in the safety bar squat (it feels similar to a front squat and has a strong element of stabilisation in the hole) and the deficit trapbar deadlift (ass to calves) as assistance. The latter is an amazing way to smoke the quadriceps at the end of a workout!

I'm putting together a home gym for my new place, and I've actually been meaning to invest in a trap bar. Maybe now i'll actually do it. So the deficit TB deadlifts have you standing on a box or something? Sounds pretty awesome and brutal.

Re: the high reps, yeah, I've been finishing my front squat sessions with a set of 10 reps x bodyweight, and that's about the limit for my torso.

 

[muntersaur]

I'm putting together a home gym for my new place, and I've actually been meaning to invest in a trap bar. Maybe now i'll actually do it. So the deficit TB deadlifts have you standing on a box or something? Sounds pretty awesome and brutal.

Re: the high reps, yeah, I've been finishing my front squat sessions with a set of 10 reps x bodyweight, and that's about the limit for my torso.

Yeah you stand on a box, and the fact that the handles are central with your body means that the lower back stays at the right angle and does not feel the strain as you would if you were squatting with a bar on your back.

I'm not a massive fan of the trap bar deadlift done normally because it is basically half way between a squat and a deadlift, and your time is better invested in either squatting or deadlifting. However, the deficit trapbar deadlift is awesome because of the range of motion, and the fact that you are limited by only your legs and not your lower back giving way.

 

[ldcommando]

So, I'm new here. Let me share with you how I failed on dead lifts today.
It was a typical day of dead lifts on 5/3/1. So I started with the warmup sets. I've been using a belt for couple of months now and for some reason (I forgot) I did my first warmup set without it. It felt really weird so I realized I probably won't be able to lift without a belt ever again which I'm okay with.
So I put the belt on, and proceeded with the remaining warmup sets and the work sets. Everything went fine but I wanted more...
I was kind of obsessed with breaking the 300 lbs barrier on dls today. So first I tried 130 kgs (or ~286 lbs, because here in brazil we workout in metric, son) and nailed it. It felt awesome and I wanted more. Decided to attempt 140 kgs (or 308 lbs). Loaded the bar, rested a lot, concentrated and then went for it. I kid you not, the bar moved like an inch. I could literally hear my lower back saying: "don't do it, it's gonna hurt, let it go."

So I did. Did some assistance work for the back and called it a day. Went home and ate a bunch of salmon sushi.

Feeling great now. And surely I will try the stupid 300 on dl again next. Can't wait.

 

[deadbeef]

It's weird how 20 lbs can just staple the bar to the floor

 

[Petrie]

I'm mainly only doing front squats (with some safety bar squats thrown in) and they are going to be my favoured squatting variation for the rest of my training career. All it means is including other exercises which emphasise the posterior chain such as deadlifts, good mornings and leg curls to balance things out.

I just come from the philosophy of getting as much done in the gym with as little time as required. Anything that requires more sets of a different lift to get the same net result is just inefficient. Efficiency is key for me, and important for new lifters so they can stay motivated and not become overburdened by the timecommitment too soon.

 

[entremet]

I went to a masseuse for the first time ever. She said my back is very tight and inflexible. What do you guys recommend for mobility?

 

[demon]

Second SL workout this week after 8 weeks off.....goddamn I lost some strength in my upper body. I was at 100lbs on the OHP, today I could barely get through a 75lb set. I don't feel I lost too much strength on deadlifts though, funnily enough.

 

[muntersaur]

I just come from the philosophy of getting as much done in the gym with as little time as required. Anything that requires more sets of a different lift to get the same net result is just inefficient. Efficiency is key for me, and important for new lifters so they can stay motivated and not become overburdened by the timecommitment too soon.

I understand your point but the front squat is not a less efficient movement than the back squat for me because it brings positives that the back squat does not bring, for example, the abs, obliques, lats and traps work far harder to stabilise the weight, and this translates into a back which is less likely to round at heavy weight.

If I was coaching someone, I would teach them the front squat first, and only when they had become proficient at it would I let them back squat. The front squat teaches you how to squat with proper technique because the lift is failed when the technique is not correct. When they are proficient at the front squat, they will be able to back squat heavy weight safely with great form precisely because their core and upper back would be strong and neurally efficient at maintaining a rigid torso.

If I wanted to isolate a particular leg muscle group, here are the three movements that I would use:

Quadriceps - front squat
Hamstrings - Romanian deadlift
Glutes - barbell hip thrust

 

[lazybum131]

If you don't use a wide grip in your squats, you will inevitably injure your elbow.

I think rather, it's if you don't keep wrists straight and weight off the arms, you will inevitably injure your elbow.

A 'narrow' grip in low bar squat isn't very narrow at all, at least not compared to where you can grip on high bar. And it's all in order to build that shelf and get the back tight, and for learning the lift, squeezing shoulders together and keeping elbows back and up gets the back tight. Then it seems to me hand placement depends more on the width of your back and length of your forearm so that wrists aren't extended back.

Then when you're advanced enough you can be like this guy squatting with no arms.

 

[Brera]

20kg meaning the barbell + 20kg?

There's a routine in the OP, check it out. Or just do Starting Strength which is practically the same.

A beginner can and should do both squats and deadlifts in the same workout but check the OP for more info.

I'm feeling it in my legs, Glutes and back today!

How long should I give it till I do it again? 2-3 days?

I'll be doing a squats and deadlifts day every week from now on!

 

[SeanR1221]

Yeah deadlift days are my favorite. True beast mode.

 

[Cheeto]

I think rather, it's if you don't keep wrists straight and weight off the arms, you will inevitably injure your elbow.

A 'narrow' grip in low bar squat isn't very narrow at all, at least not compared to where you can grip on high bar. And it's all in order to build that shelf and get the back tight, and for learning the lift, squeezing shoulders together and keeping elbows back and up gets the back tight. Then it seems to me hand placement depends more on the width of your back and length of your forearm so that wrists aren't extended back.

Then when you're advanced enough you can be like this guy squatting with no arms.

True. "inevitably injuring your elbow" was a poor choice of words. The point I'm trying to make is that it is almost impossible to load any weight on your arms with a wider grip.

 

[Anbokr]

Ugh got a vaccine shot yesterday and woke up this morning with my arm getting a jolt of pain every 2 minutes or when I put pressure on something as light as a tissue box. Hope I'll be able to lift tomorrow -_-.

 

[L0st Id3ntity]

My ankle healed miraculously quick, now it doesn't hurt unless I twist my leg, 2 days ago I couldn't stand on my right leg! awesome. So I went back to squatting today, did 98kg comfortably.

I have 2 more sessions of SS before vacation, I could finish this first 5 months phase with 100kg in the squat, feels pretty good man.

 

[Veezy]

Ugh got a vaccine shot yesterday and woke up this morning with my arm getting a jolt of pain every 2 minutes or when I put pressure on something as light as a tissue box. Hope I'll be able to lift tomorrow -_-.

Not that I have any experience around people who have injected needles of stuff into their delts.... but....

What happens sometimes, depending on the type of liquid that gets shot into the meat of the muscle, is the fluid gets caught between the fascia of the muscle. You see this a lot with your thicker synthetic anabolics. Eventually it'll break up or be absorbed, but if you want to help speed up the process you can do what some of the BB I work with did:

Find door frame. Lean delt into frame. Rub hard. Scream for a bit. Ice for 10-15 minutes. Done.

It's not fun, and if the issue is the needle tore something in your arm it won't help a bit (but you should know if that happened the day of the shot), but it could get you back in the gym quicker.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Holy fuck I'm smoked. I never shoul have stopped Bbb squats and deads.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Fuck it, gonna treat myself for dinner meat pizza with some cheese sticks. Not a cheat day, just 1 meal. After 3 weeks doing this I think I deserve it. Plus it will probably make the next two weeks easier.

 

[ldcommando]

Fuck it, gonna treat myself for dinner meat pizza with some cheese sticks. Not a cheat day, just 1 meal. After 3 weeks doing this I think I deserve it. Plus it will probably make the next two weeks easier.

Just do it.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Just do it.

Oh, I am.

The shit thing is I'm a hypocrite. I'm doing similar to what I've told others not to do for longer than 2 weeks. I'm at the end of my third week doing it with 2 more to go. I'm just trying to get down for my vacation to SC in August.

It's working, but I know I'm doing this the wrong way, too quick, too soon.

Edit: Lol, I can't even cheat right. I had 2 cheese sticks and 3 pieces of pizza. I couldn't eat anymore.

 

[Petrie]

As always visiting my girlfriend's parents place sucks. They decided it was the Pizza Hut lunch buffet for lunch, then tonight after her softball game it's to the bar, where I'm now looked at as being a dick for refusing beer and pizza and wings when I've already had a carb load for lunch.

People just can't understand having goals and sticking to them in the face of temptation.

I'm still at 1400 calories for the day, and would like to end under 2000, but need to get 100g of protein still. Chicken and fish after this hopefully.

 

[Cudder]

As always visiting my girlfriend's parents place sucks. They decided it was the Pizza Hut lunch buffet for lunch, then tonight after her softball game it's to the bar, where I'm now looked at as being a dick for refusing beer and pizza and wings when I've already had a carb load for lunch.

People just can't understand having goals and sticking to them in the face of temptation.

I'm still at 1400 calories for the day, and would like to end under 2000, but need to get 100g of protein still. Chicken and fish after this hopefully.

Man, i fucking hate people who act all snarky because you decline their food cuz youre sticking to a diet. Fuck em.

 

[Petrie]

Man, i fucking hate people who act all snarky because you decline their food cuz youre sticking to a diet. Fuck em.

It's such fucking bullshit. I'm the dick because I have goals and a plan and won't derail it for mediocre pizza, shitty wings, and crappy beer.

It's even more infuriating because this is the same family I mentioned is doing the Special K plan to lose weight. Apparently this fits into the rules of that plan? And they do this shit twice a week while trying to lose weight. The fuck?

 

[Syphon Filter]

Anyone try that isopure drink? Is it worth it?

 

[bro1]

As always visiting my girlfriend's parents place sucks. They decided it was the Pizza Hut lunch buffet for lunch, then tonight after her softball game it's to the bar, where I'm now looked at as being a dick for refusing beer and pizza and wings when I've already had a carb load for lunch.

People just can't understand having goals and sticking to them in the face of temptation.

I'm still at 1400 calories for the day, and would like to end under 2000, but need to get 100g of protein still. Chicken and fish after this hopefully.

Vodka and seltzer is low cal. Or do what I do which is Jim beam on the rocks

 

[Petrie]

Vodka and seltzer is low cal. Or do what I do which is Jim beam on the rocks

They already had me load up on carbs for lunch. Add to that the fact that I'm diabetic, and I won't be fucking up my blood glucose anymore today with alcohol. Lol. For me it's about more than just calories.

 

[bro1]

Oh, I am.

The shit thing is I'm a hypocrite. I'm doing similar to what I've told others not to do for longer than 2 weeks. I'm at the end of my third week doing it with 2 more to go. I'm just trying to get down for my vacation to SC in August.

It's working, but I know I'm doing this the wrong way, too quick, too soon.

Edit: Lol, I can't even cheat right. I had 2 cheese sticks and 3 pieces of pizza. I couldn't eat anymore.

I live in SC and I wish I was out of the state for the month of August!

Anybody else on this thread feel like they aren't strong or fit enough from what hey see on the Internet? I'm 36, I workout 6 days a week and am in better hale than most but the Internet makes me feel weakass when I compare myself to what I see on YouTube. I know I am stronger and in better shape than the people I know but I still feel weak and fat.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I live in SC and I wish I was out of the state for the month of August!

Anybody else on this thread feel like they aren't strong or fit enough from what hey see on the Internet? I'm 36, I workout 6 days a week and am in better hale than most but the Internet makes me feel weakass when I compare myself to what I see on YouTube. I know I am stronger and in better shape than the people I know but I still feel weak and fat.

Why? SC in August is awesome. (my Grandmother lives in Summerville).

As for your issue, stop comparing yourself to models and strong men, it's never going to end well. Instead if anything, use them as inspiration.

Edit: Also, my EFTS heavy elbow sleeve came in today, I like them a lot, but they need broken in something fierce.

 

[bro1]

Why? SC in August is awesome. (my Grandmother lives in Summerville).

As for your issue, stop comparing yourself to models and strong men, it's never going to end well. Instead if anything, use them as inspiration.

Edit: Also, my EFTS heavy elbow sleeve came in today, I like them a lot, but they need broken in something fierce.

That's where I live! I moved here from Philly and moving to Tampa next year.

 

[deadbeef]

That's where I live! I moved here from Philly and moving to Tampa next year.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

That's where I live! I moved here from Philly and moving to Tampa next year.

No, shit? We may have to meet up for a photo op.

 

[bro1]

Saturday is 20 rep day. We are going to pick a weight that would be tough to do for 10 reps and do a set of 20 for squats, deads, bench, and also chin and dip. All in a row with no rest. Then run 3k and swim. Should be brutal but fun.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Saturday is 20 rep day. We are going to pick a weight that would be tough to do for 10 reps and do a set of 20 for squats, deads, bench, and also chin and dip. All in a row with no rest. Then run 3k and swim. Should be brutal but fun.

You got dis!

 

[Spiritreaver]

Oh, I am.

The shit thing is I'm a hypocrite. I'm doing similar to what I've told others not to do for longer than 2 weeks. I'm at the end of my third week doing it with 2 more to go. I'm just trying to get down for my vacation to SC in August.

It's working, but I know I'm doing this the wrong way, too quick, too soon.

Edit: Lol, I can't even cheat right. I had 2 cheese sticks and 3 pieces of pizza. I couldn't eat anymore.

Nah buddy, that's about how long I can go before I really start to get the urge to cheat. It's fine and won't hurt you much.

I also end up eating about the same amount too, it sucks because I can't let the food go to waste either so I just end up binge over a long period of time.

 

[Raide]

This might sound like a stupid question (I am pretty clueless on this front) but when is the best time to eat, before or after exercise? I am a fairly active person but I have not done much gym work at all, mostly playing football regularly and walking every day.

I thought about picking up a few protein bars, mainly because I want to improve my abs and also loose a bit of body fat. So I am trying to figure out when it is best to eat those bars.

Cheers!

 

[Cudder]

This might sound like a stupid question (I am pretty clueless on this front) but when is the best time to eat, before or after exercise? I am a fairly active person but I have not done much gym work at all, mostly playing football regularly and walking every day.

I thought about picking up a few protein bars, mainly because I want to improve my abs and also loose a bit of body fat. So I am trying to figure out when it is best to eat those bars.

Cheers!

To be honest, eat when you feel like. I might have a snack before I hit the gym just so I don't go on an empty stomach, but if you have a meal before the gym, wait a couple hours before you go.

I always have a protein shake right after.

What do protein bars have to do with giving you abs?