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[Spiritreaver]

I suggested two threads because honestly reading this thread feels like it's combining oil and water. After a certain point, goals shift for those who are more experienced, and it may be worth considering making a thread for advanced lifters. There they may feel more comfortable chatting with each other, and will not be at odds with those who are new.

If they want, they can go to the other general thread and contribute advice to those who seek it.

Oh I totally see what you're saying, and it's a great idea. I just worry that the community will stay pretty severely segregated. Then you'll end up with another thread like the weight loss thread.

I dunno, if you guys think it'll work and there's people who are willing to stick with the newbie thread to keep it in check. I think it's cool.

 

[Gray Man]

Oh I totally see what you're saying, and it's a great idea. I just worry that the community will stay pretty severely segregated. Then you'll end up with another thread like the weight loss thread.

I dunno, if you guys think it'll work and there's people who are willing to stick with the newbie thread to keep it in check. I think it's cool.

Splitting the thread seems kind of odd, just keep it Fitness, and you know, accept when people talk about different kinds of fitness. For example I brought up the Atlas stones because they are not only great exercise, great for building, and great fun.

but hey, no fun allowed here

 

[bro1]

I know, I was paying very close attention to my form - completely resetting between reps. It was only about 80% 1RM.

How is that dangerous? You almost always fail at the very start of the rep. Most people never get close to the lockout and then fail.

 

[deadbeef]

How is that dangerous? You almost always fail at the very start of the rep. Most people never get close to the lockout and then fail.

It becomes more difficult to pay attention to your form as you get tired. All my injuries when deadlifting have been because of being sloppy.

Agree that failure usually happens right above the floor but it's the few reps before failure where I have to be careful

 

[sphinx]

I am so frustrated and discouraged.. -_-

2 weeks ago I remember I had some (small) muscles on my pectorals, for a beginner anyway....

now they look completely deflated and I have been doing exactly the same routines all this time, I haven't been slacking of yet my body tells me "fuck you"... can anyone think why is this happening?

in general I look awful, even though I've been doing the same routines... I am not eating particularly wrong or not sleeping.. I do push ups and ab workout 4 days and then take a rest 1 day, It's not exactly hardcore what I do anyway so I thought doing it back to back wouldn't hurt but I am at a loss here, I don't know what to do, it feels like I am just wasting away now.

maybe do less cardio and more workout? help?

first pic is 2 weeks old, second pic is 10 minutes old... isn't the first one better?... or maybe it's just different angles?? :´(

the thumb in the 2nd pic was only to have the same posture, I am not exactly proud...

 

[RumblingRosco]

I am so frustrated and discouraged.. -_-

2 weeks ago I remember I had some (small) muscles on my pectorals, for a beginner anyway....

now they look completely deflated and I have been doing exactly the same routines all this time, I haven't been slacking of yet my body tells me "fuck you"... can anyone think why is this happening?

in general I look awful, even though I've been doing the same routines... I am not eating particularly wrong or not sleeping.. I do push ups and ab workout 4 days and then take a rest 1 day, It's not exactly hardcore what I do anyway so I thought doing it back to back wouldn't hurt but I am at a loss here, I don't know what to do, it feels like I am just wasting away now.

maybe do less cardio and more workout? help?

first pic is 2 weeks old, second pic is 10 minutes old... isn't the first one better?... or maybe it's just different angles?? :´(

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/spheenx/before1.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/spheenx/after1.jpg

the thumb in the 2nd pic was only to have the same posture, I am not exactly proud...

I'm going to tell you exactly what I guarantee others will tell you: 2 weeks is not enough time to see significant differences. Do NOT be discouraged. Also, if your routine is just cardio, push-ups, and ab stuff, I'm not sure what you'd expect to change after only two weeks; if it has been 14 days and you're doing 4 days straight then 1 day off, that means you've only had ~12 workouts total. I just don't think that's nearly enough to see any real physical change. I suspect you thinking you look worse on the right is either different lighting or you're just psyching yourself out. You look the same in both to me, honestly.

On another note...

GymGAF, anyone here ever try "1MR pre-workout" supplements? I had a free sample recently. I have never used a pre-workout before and I never consume caffeine... and my God, using this made me feel like what I imagine speed mixed with ADHD meds feels like. I was in some sort of crazy tunnel-vision and it was amazing. It almost gave me this vague "numb" feeling as if lactic acid wasn't burning the way it normally does. I ended up doing several extra lifts in the same 1 hour I normally lift because I was powering through things so rapidly. I don't need a pre-workout by any means, but damn was it fun. I am pretty sure there's almost 600 mg of caffeine per serving though, so I get the feeling that was 95% of the reason it worked so well. Tempted to buy a tub and use a half scoop every other lifting day to not over do the caffeine, but at the same time, I'm worried what side-effects something that gives me such a crazy feeling could have. I guess, I'm just looking for any second opinions on this specific (1MR) product or other pre-workouts. Anyone had any success long-term?

 

[Lamel]

I am so frustrated and discouraged.. -_-

2 weeks ago I remember I had some (small) muscles on my pectorals, for a beginner anyway....

now they look completely deflated and I have been doing exactly the same routines all this time, I haven't been slacking of yet my body tells me "fuck you"... can anyone think why is this happening?

in general I look awful, even though I've been doing the same routines... I am not eating particularly wrong or not sleeping.. I do push ups and ab workout 4 days and then take a rest 1 day, It's not exactly hardcore what I do anyway so I thought doing it back to back wouldn't hurt but I am at a loss here, I don't know what to do, it feels like I am just wasting away now.

maybe do less cardio and more workout? help?

first pic is 2 weeks old, second pic is 10 minutes old... isn't the first one better?... or maybe it's just different angles?? :´(

the thumb in the 2nd pic was only to have the same posture, I am not exactly proud...

You actually look like a bit more defined in the second pic, on the arms and lower ab areas at least. Just slightly.

Just give it time. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Wait a month then take a pic.

 

[sphinx]

I'm going to tell you exactly what I guarantee others will tell you: 2 weeks is not enough time to see significant differences. Do NOT be discouraged. Also, if your routine is just cardio, push-ups, and ab stuff, I'm not sure what you'd expect to change after only two weeks; if it has been 14 days and you're doing 4 days straight then 1 day off, that means you've only had ~12 workouts total. I just don't think that's nearly enough to see any real physical change. I suspect you thinking you look worse on the right is either different lighting or you're just psyching yourself out. You look the same in both to me, honestly.

Thanks, I guess, yeah maybe I should just take it easy.

regarding the bolded...it's just...I normally live in Europe but on Monday I came home to spend the summer with family and friends and I was expecting nice comments, not that I look awesome or anything about muscles cause I am just getting started, but a word of "hey you look healthy" would have been nice.

but all I've got was " oh, you look so small and thin, so petite". I didn't have signficant overweight last time they saw me but I had some belly and a more rounded face so instead of shutting the fuck up or saying something nice, they come up with that...

If It wasn't because it was dear friends and family I would have said "go fuck yourself and try doing just 10 of the 150 fucking push ups or 240 Abs I do every day" (I know it's not much but these people can't run for 5 minutes before passing out, it pisses me off to hear stuff like that from them)

You actually look like a bit more defined in the second pic, on the arms and lower ab areas at least. Just slightly.

Just give it time. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Wait a month then take a pic.

thank you too, yeah, maybe I am just psyched out, I been exercising for the last 2.5 months and that's not much.. I know this has to be a way of life, expecting any short term results will lead to frustration but the thing about my friends and family threw me out of the right mindset I guess.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Thanks, I guess, yeah maybe I should just take it easy.

regarding the bolded...it's just...I normally live in Europe but on Monday I came home to spend the summer with family and friends and I was expecting nice comments, not that I look awesome or anything about muscles cause I am just getting started, but a word of "hey you look healthy" would have been nice.

but all I've got was " oh, you look so small and thin, so petite". I didn't have signficant overweight last time they saw me but I had some belly and a more rounded face so instead of shutting the fuck up or saying something nice, they come up with that...

If It wasn't because it was dear friends and family I would have said "go fuck yourself and try doing just 10 of the 150 fucking push ups or 240 Abs I do every day" (I know it's not much but these people can't run for 5 minutes before passing out, it pisses me off to hear stuff like that from them)

The two parts I bolded are something I call "the skinny-fat relativity crisis." Basically, there are so many damn unhealthy people in the world that when someone of your size (not "petite" by any means, but what looks like actually a pretty healthy body weight) is around the average overfat/obese individual, you look "too small" even though you're actually healthy, or at least much, much closer to healthy than they are. Both of my parents are obese, and even though I'm ~175 lbs at barely 5'9", they think I'm majorly underweight (seriously, a few years ago my mom thought I was anorexic despite eating close to 3,000 calories/day)... but actually, I'm healthy with a solid amount of muscle. I consider this line of thinking a damn crisis, where the healthy individual is relatively "small" compared to all the overfat/obese people, so the shitty attitude those unhealthy people give us "small" people is just a way for the overfat to feel better about their bodies. That's my personal opinion, anyway.

Just let them be and ignore those comments. Being someone that is healthy and of a good weight/body fat is no longer normal, not in America anyway. Get a good routine going and stick to it, you'll thank yourself weeks/months/years from now.

 

[Skeyser]

What kind of asshole tells a man he looks "petite"?

 

[sphinx]

The two parts I bolded are something I call "the skinny-fat relativity crisis." Basically, there are so many damn unhealthy people in the world that when someone of your size (not "petite" by any means, but what looks like actually a pretty healthy body weight) is around the average overfat/obese individual, you look "too small" even though you're actually healthy, or at least much, much closer to healthy than they are. Both of my parents are obese, and even though I'm ~175 lbs at barely 5'9", they think I'm majorly underweight (seriously, a few years ago my mom thought I was anorexic despite eating close to 3,000 calories/day)... but actually, I'm healthy with a solid amount of muscle. I consider this line of thinking a damn crisis, where the healthy individual is relatively "small" compared to all the overfat/obese people, so the shitty attitude those unhealthy people give us "small" people is just a way for the overfat to feel better about their bodies. That's my personal opinion, anyway.

Just let them be and ignore those comments. Being someone that is healthy and of a good weight/body fat is no longer normal, not in America anyway. Get a good routine going and stick to it, you'll thank yourself weeks/months/years from now.

Absolutely!! that's exactly what is happening here. I was asked yesterday" are you o.k? do you feel weak?" and I think, "fuck NO! I've never felt healthier and overall more solid than now!". I've NEVER ever had done workout in my life, it's a great discovery and It is annoying to see people thinking I am starving and wasting away.

You can count on that, that I will stick to it I am a bit pissed now but at the end I really don't care what people think. I love working out and I will be adding new rutines, supplements and all that stuff throughout the years, I don't think I'll stop.

 

[fredrancour]

I love working out and I will be adding new rutines, supplements and all that stuff throughout the years, I don't think I'll stop.

May I suggest adding bridges of some kind to your workout? They're becoming my new favorite bodyweight move ever since I started doing them at the end of things, and it's always good to have some kind of back exercise in a workout routine for the sake of health, even if one doesn't care about back definition.

 

[RumblingRosco]

May I suggest adding bridges of some kind to your workout? They're becoming my new favorite bodyweight move ever since I started doing them at the end of things, and it's always good to have some kind of back exercise in a workout routine for the sake of health, even if one doesn't care about back definition.

How about something like planks? I've only ever done them a few times, but when I have, it feels like my entire body, especially shoulders, arms, abs, and legs are going to give out. I usually end up shaking violently until I collapse if I hold them long enough. It'd be something I'd consider adding if I were doing a bodyweight-only routine, anyway.

 

[fredrancour]

How about something like planks? I've only ever done them a few times, but when I have, it feels like my entire body, especially shoulders, arms, abs, and legs are going to give out. I usually end up shaking violently until I collapse if I hold them long enough. It'd be something I'd consider adding if I were doing a bodyweight-only routine, anyway.

I used to use planks as a "how out of shape did I get this offseason?" test in high school: How bad does everything that's not my abs hurt from this exercise? I knew I was out of shape badly if planks made my lower back tired.

 

[Lamel]

Thanks, I guess, yeah maybe I should just take it easy.

regarding the bolded...it's just...I normally live in Europe but on Monday I came home to spend the summer with family and friends and I was expecting nice comments, not that I look awesome or anything about muscles cause I am just getting started, but a word of "hey you look healthy" would have been nice.

but all I've got was " oh, you look so small and thin, so petite". I didn't have signficant overweight last time they saw me but I had some belly and a more rounded face so instead of shutting the fuck up or saying something nice, they come up with that...

If It wasn't because it was dear friends and family I would have said "go fuck yourself and try doing just 10 of the 150 fucking push ups or 240 Abs I do every day" (I know it's not much but these people can't run for 5 minutes before passing out, it pisses me off to hear stuff like that from them)



thank you too, yeah, maybe I am just psyched out, I been exercising for the last 2.5 months and that's not much.. I know this has to be a way of life, expecting any short term results will lead to frustration but the thing about my friends and family threw me out of the right mindset I guess.

Yeah just keep at it.

By the way, I don't know your specific circumstances, but weight training will give you much faster results for building muscles (i'm sure you've been told this before in this thread).

 

[PantherLotus]

Alienshogun -- hope you're back soon. Love your posts in here.

 

[sphinx]

How about something like planks? I've only ever done them a few times, but when I have, it feels like my entire body, especially shoulders, arms, abs, and legs are going to give out. I usually end up shaking violently until I collapse if I hold them long enough. It'd be something I'd consider adding if I were doing a bodyweight-only routine, anyway.

I used to use planks as a "how out of shape did I get this offseason?" test in high school: How bad does everything that's not my abs hurt from this exercise? I knew I was out of shape badly if planks made my lower back tired.

I do planks too, it's not part of my standard repertoire but every now and then I do a couple but I am not sure that I am doing them right so I am just experimenting. The point is to go down, go into push-up position but use the forearms to support your body and then just stay there putting your ab muscles into tension, right? I can hold the position for 1 minute, but that last 10 seconds it's like.."fuuuuuuuu..." hehe

Yeah just keep at it.

By the way, I don't know your specific circumstances, but weight training will give you much faster results for building muscles (i'm sure you've been told this before in this thread).

yeah, I gotta buy the equipment, will do it soon-ish. That or the gym but I love to run and to all sorts of things in parks, I feel alive, gyms are like offices, don't like them much..:/

 

[sleeping_dragon]

Yes but it's also not waste of many and bad for you like the dude said...

Edit:
Late...

Says whatever you want, im the living proof of no protein supplements just pure meat, if you want, me and you can post our pics and let gaf decide which body is more healthy and looks better.

edit
meant to write protein supplements.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Have a question. I am a baseball pitcher and I just got news the I have damaged my supraspinatus muscle and tendon. Any super light weight (2-5lbs) workouts I can do? When I got it checked out, my right shoulder is now in a forward position, and extremely uncomfortable at certain positions (reaching over to put a seat belt for example). Was told to stop throwing but to do light weight work to keep it from atrophy.

Thanks.

 

[despire]

Says whatever you want, im the living proof of no protein just pure meat, if you want, me and you can post our pics and let gaf decide which body is more healthy and looks better.

Lol? So your way of deciding an argument is ripping your shirt off and seeing who's got bigger muscles?


Even if you can't handle whey protein it doesn't mean that other people can't either. You could start by telling us how protein powder is bad for you and why it's waste of money?

IMO it's handy sometimes when you can't get enough protein from real foods that day. And I'm far from a typical protein powder user. I take a few shakes a week at max, sometimes I don't take at all. Many guys drink them at least once a day.

 

[Petrie]

Says whatever you want, im the living proof of no protein just pure meat, if you want, me and you can post our pics and let gaf decide which body is more healthy and looks better.

Wow you sound really intelligent, what with all the science and facts behind your statements.

 

[sleeping_dragon]

Lol? So your way of deciding an argument is ripping your shirt off and seeing who's got bigger muscles?


Even if you can't handle whey protein it doesn't mean that other people can't either. You could start by telling us how protein powder is bad for you and why it's waste of money?

IMO it's handy sometimes when you can't get enough protein from real foods that day. And I'm far from a typical protein powder user. I take a few shakes a week at max, sometimes I don't take at all. Many guys drink them at least once a day.

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

 

[Petrie]

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

Nobody here has EVER said they are the main factor, that's why they're called supplements. They SUPPLEMENT everything else.

You seem incredibly dim.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

For me it works like this. Eating a whole chicken a day is unrealistic and i find it hard to get a decent amount of protein without protein shakes. They absolutely are not necessary but for me they make sense.

 

[SeanR1221]

Weak day today. I knew it was bad news when I felt tired on my first set. Only was able to hit 3 reps @ 255 for my deads :/

 

[grumble]

For me it works like this. Eating a whole chicken a day is unrealistic and i find it hard to get a decent amount of protein without protein shakes. They absolutely are not necessary but for me they make sense.

A whole chicken would be too much. Try this:

1/2 pound chicken
1 can tuna
4 eggs
2 pieces bacon
2 large glasses milk

That'll be in the 160 gram range

 

[bro1]

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

haha! wow! yes, that is why Ronnie Coleman is as big as he is (not saying that he doesn't work his ass off).

Anyway, pulled a muscle in my obliques. Do you know how painful that is??

Also, broke 405x5 in the deadlift. Did 415x5 yesterday morning at 3am (had a 5:30 flight and wanted to get a workout in prior to my trip).

 

[Syphon Filter]

A whole chicken would be too much. Try this:

1/2 pound chicken
1 can tuna
4 eggs
2 pieces bacon
2 large glasses milk

That'll be in the 160 gram range

dam thats a lot.

 

[SeanR1221]

A whole chicken would be too much. Try this:

1/2 pound chicken
1 can tuna
4 eggs
2 pieces bacon
2 large glasses milk

That'll be in the 160 gram range

One of us has to be wrong here.

8oz of chicken - 50
1 can of tuna - 33 (and I get the slightly bigger cans)
4 eggs - 24
2 pieces of bacon - 5
2 glasses of milk - 16

That's not 160g

 

[FallingEdge]

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

To say that protein powders are bad is just dumb. If you can get enough protein then yes, you don't need it. But for many, it is a quick way to add 25-50g of protein in your diet. As mentioned, it is a called a supplement for a reason.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I also don't need tuna so i need to find a replacement there .

 

[FallingEdge]

I also don't need tuna so i need to find a replacement there .

I'm telling you man, ground turkey and more specifically:

is the food of the gods.

 

[mooooose]

How much ground turkey comes in that package and how much?

 

[I'm an expert]

I'm into the mixed fitness theme thread as well.. though I lurk more than post. I've been a semi-pro marathon runner, bodybuilder, rock climber, yoga..doer.. , in the last 6 years and they've all been a blast and all have been effective at keeping me in shape (which has been increasingly harder now that I have a family). Though I've never been really into following other people's routines/diets, it's really interesting reading all the different approaches to fitness here. Though I'll admit it when I brought up bikram yoga here a few months ago it was crickets haha.

Anyway, my current obsession.. behind the back standing wrist curls. No idea why but I keep ending my workouts lately with them trying to max out.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I'm telling you man, ground turkey and more specifically:

is the food of the gods.

ill look into that.

 

[agrajag]

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

Dude, Ronnie Coleman is a REALLY bad example.

 

[Skeyser]

Well i did not says bigger muscle is better i meant looking good and healthy, which IMO are the ultimate goals of bodybuilding. If protein supplements are the main factor for muscle mass then tell me why Ronnie Coleman (Mr Olympia 8 times straight) eats at least one whole chicken a day everyday when he's bulking up?

300+ lbs muscle-man eats a lot of meat, what a surprise.

Nobody here said you should replace all your meals with whey, it's just a supplement that can be helpful if you're struggling getting your daily protein needs.

 

[Corky]

Gaf how do I target the "upper middle pectorals" ?

The "corners" as indicated below. I feel like 45 degree incline bench targets the sides of my chest and shoulders more than the middle part.

 

[Cudder]

Gaf how do I target the "upper middle pectorals" ?

The "corners" as indicated below. I feel like 45 degree incline bench targets the sides of my chest and shoulders more than the middle part.

Incline Bench Press targets upper pecs.

 

[Incster]

Just wanted to pop my head in and say that I just finished my first week on the routine listed in the OP and, holy crap, do I ever feel good.

Starting out lifting fairly light to get techniques down but, even still...addicting.

 

[balddemon]

holy shit good things happened today in the gym

was squatting and one of the managers came up to me and told my friend and i that we must wear shoes. so we had a little argument about that. well then i realized that i'm trying to get a job at this gym, so i apologized to her next time i saw and we shot the shit a little bit and i introduced myself, during which the manager of the gym came up and told me my background check came through with flying colors. so i got the job, which means i can continue working out, since i have no money left and had to cancel my membership. my last day was gonna be august 20th.

on the lifting front, smolov kicked my ass again.

squatted 7x5x300. i mean who the fuck thought this fucking program up.

then 3x5 pullups.

then walked out

 

[OG Kush]

Doesn't turkey have a certain chemical that makes you tired/sleepy? it may be in small amounts though unless you eat a whole turkey or something then it may not affect you.

 

[kylej]

squatted 7x5x300.

nice

 

[Kwhit10]

Doesn't turkey have a certain chemical that makes you tired/sleepy? it may be in small amounts though unless you eat a whole turkey or something then it may not affect you.

It's the amino acid tryptophan, but there is tryptophan in other meats as well, and is somewhat of a myth.

 

[fredrancour]

Gaf how do I target the "upper middle pectorals" ?

The "corners" as indicated below. I feel like 45 degree incline bench targets the sides of my chest and shoulders more than the middle part.

"Middle chest" or "inner chest" doesn't exist as far as exercise selecction is concerned:
See how the muscle fibers all run from the middle of the chest to the arm? When a muscle fiber contracts it contracts along the whole length. You can't just target one portion of its length, so targeting the inner or outer pec is impossible. The shape of the edge of the muscle is determined by genetic variation in how the muscle originates from the bones.

Different fibers can be activated independently, which is one of the reasons different angles of bench press exist.

This does make me wonder, why do only certain portions of muscles feel sore, instead of even pain distributed throughout the muscle?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I'll agree with Rando, but only if we have a thread dedicated to doing isolation exercises that results in having a Greek God body like mine, and another thread dedicated to powerlifting.

 

[reilo]

I'll agree with Rando, but only if we have a thread dedicated to doing isolation exercises which results to a Greek God body like mine, and another thread dedicated to powerlifting.

Your posts aren't as entertaining nor superfluous without the Archer avatar.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Couple of more weeks and I'll change back to Archer. Most likely the new Bourne movie will be shit compared to the other three.

 

[The Mana Legend]

Alright guys, give me the best protein powder for around $30 that will last me a couple of weeks. GO!

 

[TheExodu5]

I guess I need to back off my squat weight a bit. I think my form was probably poor earlier this week and I wasn't going low enough. I went all the way parallel this today. I managed 2 sets at 115lbs. fine, but on the 3rd rep of the 3rd set, I couldn't actually get up...had to have my spotter help me out. I'm lucky I didn't break form...I'm guessing that's a nice way to set up for an injury.