• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fitness |OT5| Intermittent Farting, Wrist Curls and Hammer Strength Machine Spotters

Status
Not open for further replies.

blackflag

Member
I get that shit and I'm not even on anything. I'll be sleeping and wake up with the god damned washington monument in my pants. Shit's like a granite baby fist. If I rolled over I'd do a fucking barrel roll.

Yep you must have that good high natural testosterone level. I wasn't always like this though, guess cuz I used to be obese and now I'm close to 40 it never recovered. Not sure.

Test I took last week showed my levels out of range. It couldn't even calculate it, it just said >1500. My dose is getting lowered in a few weeks though to put me at like 1000-1100 so it is at the very top of normal range.
 

blackflag

Member
Thanks for the tips. Ok I'll avoid the Smith machine, will practice with just the unweighted bar til I get comfortable.

I'm 6'2" with long legs, hopefully I can figure out the form.

Yeah make sure you are pushing your knees away from each other. There should be a diagram in the book. Practice that as well. It will show how to do it.
 

dejay

Banned
I have a history of knee and ankle injuries (fractured left knee cap, torn deltoid ligament in left ankle) so I've been avoiding squats until I get my leg press up. I hit 5 reps at 350 last week and my joints didn't bother me so I want to start squatting next time I'm in the gym for leg day.

I'm practicing the form in my room right now following the instructions in the Starting Strength wiki and I'm encountering two issues:

1) When I get to around parallel, my arms reflexively come forward to balance me out. I try to keep them in the position they would be at if the barbell was on my shoulders and I fall backwards.

2) My stance widens as I get lower. Like my toes turn out more (The SS wiki says feet at shoulder width, toes ~15 degrees out) and I feel the need to widen my stance to balance myself.

Any tips? Is it okay to widen the stance as long as my knees stay in line with my toes?

My gym does have a Smith machine so I'm planning on practicing on that with some light weights but I would obviously eventually like to move on to the actual squat rack.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

1 - Your torso may be too upright. If you're falling backwards the weight is all on your heels. Also with a bar on there it will feel different and your arms won't/can't move on their own.

I'd suggest not bothering with the smith machine - it won't train proper form as the weight balance is off. Start with smaller weights on squats, even an empty bar, and build up the weight until your form starts to suffer. Pay attention to the way the balance point feels on your feet.

(edit) beaten of course
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Yep you must have that good high natural testosterone level. I wasn't always like this though, guess cuz I used to be obese and now I'm close to 40 it never recovered. Not sure.

Test I took last week showed my levels out of range. It couldn't even calculate it, it just said >1500. My dose is getting lowered in a few weeks though to put me at like 1000-1100 so it is at the very top of normal range.

Might explain why my gains came so fast.

At least you found out the problem and are getting it fixed. Now you'll never have that problem again.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Thanks for the tips. Ok I'll avoid the Smith machine, will practice with just the unweighted bar til I get comfortable.

I'm 6'2" with long legs, hopefully I can figure out the form.

unweighted bar is perfect.

I'm 6'2" as well with long legs...I actually widened my stance as well, but as weeks and months pass you will get more flexibility and can shorten your stance as you see fit.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
Yeah make sure you are pushing your knees away from each other. There should be a diagram in the book. Practice that as well. It will show how to do it.

The thing about clasping my hands and using my elbows to push my knees out?

1 - Your torso may be too upright. If you're falling backwards the weight is all on your heels. Also with a bar on there it will feel different and your arms won't/can't move on their own.

Where should I try to center the weight? My initial reflex is to fall forward so I end up getting on my toes, I try to force myself to keep my feet flat on the ground and it goes to my heel.

I figured my shoes weren't helping so I tried barefoot and the same thing happened.
 

Truelize

Steroid Distributor
I've come to the conclusion that I will probably never really be happy with my body.... Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I would imagine a lot of people here feel the same way. When I'm cutting I feel small, and when I'm bulking I feel fat : /

You think that's irritating. Just wait until you are older or injured or both. Enjoy your healthy body now and stop nitpicking on how the mirror makes you feel.
As long as you are training and taking care of yourself you will be better than you were yesterday. In a way, that's all that matters.
 

blackflag

Member
The thing about clasping my hands and using my elbows to push my knees out?



Where should I try to center the weight? My initial reflex is to fall forward so I end up getting on my toes, I try to force myself to keep my feet flat on the ground and it goes to my heel.

I figured my shoes weren't helping so I tried barefoot and the same thing happened.

Yep the diagram of clasping your hands and pushing your knees out.

I'd try with a bar asap to see if you still have those issues with balance. It felt awkward to me until I actually tried it with a bar.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
Yep the diagram of clasping your hands and pushing your knees out.

I'd try with a bar asap to see if you still have those issues with balance. It felt awkward to me until I actually tried it with a bar.

Will do. I'm following the upper / lower split in the OP so I have leg day twice next week.

Thanks for all the quick responses everyone!
 

Noema

Member
Where should I try to center the weight? My initial reflex is to fall forward so I end up getting on my toes, I try to force myself to keep my feet flat on the ground and it goes to my heel.

I figured my shoes weren't helping so I tried barefoot and the same thing happened.

The weight should be over the middle of your foot, because you want your center of gravity (which will be exactly over the middle of your foot) to move perpendicularly with respect to the floor.)

JIPtuHq.jpg


Here we have 3 different squat variants (from left to right, front squat, high bar squat, low bar squat). Notice how the center of gravity is always perpendicular to the floor (dotted line) exactly over the middle of the foot regardless of bar positioning. Thus, the back angle changes to compensate, from almost upright in the front squat, to almost 45° of lean in a low bar squat.

If you are interested in learning how to squat, I urge you to get Starting Strength and read it thoroughly.

And no, you may not use the smith machine to practice. That'd be analogous to trying to learn to play guitar on a Casio keyboard. Smith machines are only good for leaning over when resting between sets or for hanging towels / sweatshirts.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Where should I try to center the weight? My initial reflex is to fall forward so I end up getting on my toes, I try to force myself to keep my feet flat on the ground and it goes to my heel.

I figured my shoes weren't helping so I tried barefoot and the same thing happened.

Yep, don't squat in running shoes. If you're practising for barbell squats, then sit back more. A low bar back squat is initiated from the hips, not the knees (depending on your anthropometry you may break at both simultaneously). It'll be a lot easier to work on form at home if you use a broomstick or a curtain rod or the like to mimic the barbell - you'll be forced to keep your back tight and won't be able to use your arms for balance.
 

dejay

Banned
I'd try with a bar asap to see if you still have those issues with balance. It felt awkward to me until I actually tried it with a bar.

This definitely - you can't tell until you try it, then it makes sense. I've only been back into weight training for a few weeks after a 7 year break, and beforehand I had never done squats, so it was new to me too.

I've had a left knee with some movement in it since high school, which left me with some stability issues and it was suggested by a doctor years ago I do weight training to strengthen around the joint. I had been doing leg presses and it helped a lot with my knee, but I never did squats, as they seemed too intimidating. However, after starting them I can't believe how cool they are - I'm a definite convert.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Lol wut? My 36 jeans fall off me but my 34s were too right (they buttoned, but picture a sausage poppin out of a casing)

I hate this about shopping. I can rock my current 34's and they're a bit loose. But if I were to go to H&M and buy a pair of 34's I bet they would be too tight, not only do the brands matter, but the cuts as well. I couldn't wear skinny jeans/slim fit even if I wanted to. I haven't bought any new clothes in a while, was hoping that after my cut I can get some jeans/slacks altered. Also so I can tailor some shirts, because it seems everywhere I go to get a dress shirt that fits my chest, it doesn't taper down properly and looks like a damn dress.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
The weight should be over the middle of your foot, because you want your center of gravity (which will be exactly over the middle of your foot) to move perpendicularly with respect to the floor.)

JIPtuHq.jpg

I notice the knee is extending past the toes, this means I should be leaning forward slightly to make that happen? As long as I keep my feet completely flat on the ground, I should slightly lean forward?

This definitely - you can't tell until you try it, then it makes sense. I've only been back into weight training for a few weeks after a 7 year break, and beforehand I had never done squats, so it was new to me too.

I've had a left knee with some movement in it since high school, which left me with some stability issues and it was suggested by a doctor years ago I do weight training to strengthen around the joint. I had been doing leg presses and it helped a lot with my knee, but I never did squats, as they seemed too intimidating. However, after starting them I can't believe how cool they are - I'm a definite convert.

That's good to hear, I definitely want to strengthen the muscles around my knees because ever since my injuries, they get sore after I run, and that shouldn't be happening at 22. I'm gonna do my best to get the form down next week, if I can't quite get it I will see a family friend who happens to be a professional trainer about teaching me squats.
 

balddemon

Banned
I notice the knee is extending past the toes, this means I should be leaning forward slightly to make that happen? As long as I keep my feet completely flat on the ground, I should slightly lean forward?

just keep your weight on your heels. and yes you have to lean forward otherwise the weight will slide off your vertical back.
 

Noema

Member
I notice the knee is extending past the toes, this means I should be leaning forward slightly to make that happen? As long as I keep my feet completely flat on the ground, I should slightly lean forward?

The more vertical the back angle the more the knees should travel forward past the toes. In the front squat, the back is almost vertical, which means that the hamstrings are shortened because the angle between the femur and the tibia is smaller. Thus then knees travel forward more.

On the other side of the spectrum, the low bar squat, since the back angle is much smaller, the butt sticks out more, thus the knees almost don't travel forward at all. But it also depends on proportions. If you have long legs as you say knees will travel forward no matter what.

I've posted this like a hundred times, but it's worth repeating:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRMiUtscrHw

just keep your weight on your heels.

No.
 

balddemon

Banned
The more vertical the back the more the knees should lean forward. In the front squat, the back is almost vertical, which means that the hamstrings are shortened because the angle between the femur and the tibia is smaller. Thus then knees travel forward more.

On the other side of the spectrum, the low bar squat, since the back angle is much smaller, the butt sticks out more, thus the knees almost don't travel forward at all. But it also depends on proportions. If you have long legs as you say knees will travel forward no matter what.



No.

?? you're supposed to be leaning on your toes? I have literally never squatted on my toes. always sit straight down on my heels.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Wow! Just OHP'd 215! I'm shocked I got it up with being on a cut and all. Feels good getting it at 185!
 

Noema

Member
?? you're supposed to be leaning on your toes? I have literally never squatted on my toes. always sit straight down on my heels.

The weight (COG) has to be over the middle of the foot, not the heels, not the toes. Use the whole foot. Anything else will increase the moment arm (ie, the torque) making the movement less efficient.
 

balddemon

Banned
The weight has to be over the middle of the foot, not the heels, not the toes. Use the whole foot.

oh. well yeah. I tell people that (in person when I can see what they're doing). but most people can't figure that out without doing box squats first.

I've found that the bar naturally travels over the middle of the foot if the lifter has the proper balance.

keeping the weight towards the back of your foot is way better than keeping it towards you toes.
 

Noema

Member
hmm.....


I think most of your weight should probably be in your heels, to work that posterior chain. It's definitely not supposed to be the toes.

You work the posterior chain in a low bar squat by shoving you knees out (which increases the participation of the adductors), and the back angle forces the butt to stick out at the bottom, which combined with the reduced knee travel, ensures that the hamstrings contract to their maximum length at the bottom, aiding in both the stretch reflex and the extension of the hip (which is a function of the proximal head of the biceps femoris).

Lastly, the glutes are engaged by driving the hips upward as the main mover, and extending the hips as well.

It has nothing to do with the weight being on the heels. Again, that would increase the moment arm along the vertical path, creating torque along the vertical axis and making the movement less efficient.

LOL just saw your edit. Sorry, I get carried away :p
 

dejay

Banned
I try and keep proper form with spine, legs, shoulders, etc. During the squat I sometimes mentally check for the pressure on my feet - weight should be evenly distributed between balls and heels of the feet. From that I can adjust the angle of my back. It's pretty subconscious after a little while but I think it's good to analyse that from time to time, especially when starting, at least for the way I do stuff.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
It has nothing to do with the weight being on the heels. Again, that would increase the moment arm along the vertical path, creating torque along the vertical axis and making the movement less efficient.

LOL just saw your edit. Sorry, I get carried away :p

Yeah, I think balddemon was just referring to the heel as a point of contact on the floor.

I notice the knee is extending past the toes, this means I should be leaning forward slightly to make that happen? As long as I keep my feet completely flat on the ground, I should slightly lean forward?

Knees come forward by bending at the knees more, not by leaning at the torso. Torso lean largely comes naturally from bar positioning, although obviously there is always a need to pay attention and room for improvement. In a low bar squat where the movement consists largely of breaking at the hips and sitting back, the knees come forward less than a high bar squat where the knees bend and the torso sits more upright.

I'm the same height as you with long legs and in a low bar back squat my knees generally fall either in line with or a bit short of my toes, whereas in a high bar back squat or front squat they generally fall either a bit in front of or in line with them.
 

cryptic

Member
Just found this old pic from a few years back:
keto/paleo/primal:Enough exposure.

Thanks for the comments guys, it's great inspiration for my dead lift tomorrow. Let's me know I'm on the right path. I'm gonna kill it.
 

blackflag

Member
Wow! Just OHP'd 215! I'm shocked I got it up with being on a cut and all. Feels good getting it at 185!

I have to give you props on this. That's awesome. I can only OHP 205 but I weigh 255....

I mean really that's still very good but yours is insane. Good job.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
I have to give you props on this. That's awesome. I can only OHP 205 but I weigh 255....

I mean really that's still very good but yours is insane. Good job.
Thanks. Gotta give some credit to Shogun. After watching his vid I brought my grip in. It helped!
 

Cagey

Banned
Thanks. Gotta give some credit to Shogun. After watching his vid I brought my grip in. It helped!

Could I get a link to this? Tomorrow's my fourth day of testing out for 5/3/1, and I've never done serious OHP training, so unlike the rest of the lifts being like riding a bike again, this is like learning how ride a bike the first time.

Bench, deads, squats in the books. My squats are garbage, which isn't surprising given the equipment I've had. At least smith bench is just bench without stabilization. Smith squat is a bullshit hack squat, at best, so my leg strength is weak. I damn near benched what my squat was =/
 

Husker86

Member
Costco carries ON whey now. 50.00 for 5.5 pounds. Only vanilla.

I got excited at the first part, then sad when I read the rest. Still a slightly better deal than Amazon I suppose.

I am on my 3rd Natural Chocolate 5 pounder since I finally got into a lifting routine mid-January. I don't use as much as I probably should since it's expensive (at least in my mind it is). Haven't found anything much cheaper though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom