Androidsleeps
Member
Agents of shield has a higher score than Sex and the City...so yeah, I'm not shocked.
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FiveThirtyEight: Men Are Sabotaging The Online Reviews Of TV Shows Aimed At Women
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brianmcdoogle
Member
Sex and the City movie: 5.5/10 (METACRITIC 53)
Males 4.7, Females 6.5
Entourage Movie: 6.6/10 (METACRITIC 38)
Males 6.6, Females 6.4
And, also something fairly interesting.
Males 42385, Females 43063 voting on the Sex and the City movie.
41486 and 5202 for Entourage movie, respectively.
So, almost equal number of men and women voting on Sex and the City movie.
Discotheque
Banned
whoa whoa whoa.....why women gotta clapback by voting down beavis and butthead though? couldn't they shit on a comic book series instead or something.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
sex and city tv series >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sex and city movie though
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I don't really have a problem with people being critical toward media not aimed at their demographic.
Discotheque
Banned
why? they should be more critical of media aimed towards them. higher expectations and all that.
i'm not gonna whine about young adult movies since i don't watch that stuff anyways.
Title says TV Shows.
Entourage
Overall: 8.6
Men: 8.6
Women:7.9
Sex in the City
Overall: 7
Men: 5.8
Women: 8.1
I guess you could make an argument for Sex in the City being better. It actually had a finale and ended before it became a pathetic, dried out, husk of its former self.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
At least Gilmore Girls is at an 8.0. That would have really been something to be upset about.
brianmcdoogle
Member
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic
Male votes: 8529
Female votes: 3051
This is fascinating. I didn't even know IMDB had this kind of data (partially because I've never looked at user scores or reviews on IMDB. I just use IMDB as a reference for release dates and crew).
I know. I just wanted to look up what it was for the movies as well.
Male votes: 8529
Female votes: 3051
This is fascinating. I didn't even know IMDB had this kind of data (partially because I've never looked at user scores or reviews on IMDB. I just use IMDB as a reference for release dates and crew).
I know. I just wanted to look up what it was for the movies as well.
whyamihere
Banned
No. It's much worse. And I didn't even love SATC.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Because it is about their opinion? If it's not aimed at them it's logical they don't enjoy it as much and logical that that would be reflected in their ratings.
Bel Marduk
Banned
It seems like it has, yes.
Discotheque
Banned
that's fair but honestly online ratings are less about opinion and more about making a statement before people even watch the damn thing imo.
i doubt many of those men have seen more than a minute of sex and a city for instance. it's just spammed upvotes/downvotes now.
brianmcdoogle
Member
As shintoki showed in his post on Sex and the City and Entourage, men are giving significantly lower scores to Sex and the City (something I'd assume you would say is not aimed at them) than women are to Entourage (something not really aimed at women), and that men are voting in higher frequencies to things that aren't aimed at them (look at the breakdown in my post above about the near equal number of men and women voting on the Sex and the City movie, but women not voting in equal numbers to men for the Entourage movie).
Yeah, I think this is a great example of widespread and potentially unconscious misogyny. Female-centric shows are so universally rated more poorly than male-centric shows, that I don't think deliberately sexist trolls could be the explanation.
Because a lot of guys grow up with less exposure to more feminine media, and are constantly bombarded by implicit and explicit messages that femininity is inferior to masculinity, they're compelled to give poor ratings to shows they don't like, or just think they aren't supposed to like.
I'm sure that most of the guys who hate the new Ghostbusters remake, but didn't complain about the Red Dawn remake four years ago, probably don't even realize their own sexism.
The conclusion is really that males are more likely to watch (or rate) media not meant for them, and rate more harshly when they do.
It's pretty interesting that there's a whole slew of 90%+ male things, but only very few even 80%+ female shows. I guess it boils down to most niche media being, indeed, made for men.
It's pretty interesting that there's a whole slew of 90%+ male things, but only very few even 80%+ female shows. I guess it boils down to most niche media being, indeed, made for men.
And logically it shows that men have an incredibly narrow range of tastes and can only enjoy media aimed specifically at them.
Clickbait describes an article whose headline is vague, forcing you to read the entire piece to know what it's about. For example, if 538 called this piece "You won't believe what's skewing the ratings of shows geared toward women," that would be clickbait. This isn't clickbait at all. You know the thesis from the headline and can read for more detailed information if the topic interests you.
Yes. Unless you want to start paying for every single piece of content you read on the internet, that's the way things will remain for now.
excelsiorlef
Member
A lot of female targeted media doesnt see the light of day
Example
http://deadline.com/2016/05/drew-pilot-dead-cbs-shopped-1201756288/
SolicitorPirate
Member
But misogyny isn't a thing, guys!
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
538 is owned by Disney, they'd better generate money
excelsiorlef
Member
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
People may be more likely to vote/complain more about things that annoy them than things that they find mildly interesting. It's entirely possible that women just have broader tastes than men or don't look as kindly toward giving negative reviews than men do. I don't really see what difference this makes. I mean, the userbase of IMDB is probably young men more than women, so it would even make sense.
And of course they'd be "making a statement" with their reviews of things. That's the entire point of reviewing something.
You say this like it's a bad thing. A person likes what they like. Are you going to get on a high horse and lecture people about what media they should enjoy?
Aztechnology
Member
Doesn't that became part of the average in the long term though?
missed the edit dar
It is definitely a bad thing. Why do you think men are so ignorant of the troubles women deal with? There are many contributing factors but one of which is that they aren't consuming the media that women write or that focus on the very real problems that affect half the population. If you seal yourself off from people other than yourself, you aren't going to be as accepting or as empathetic toward other cultures. This isn't that complicated of an idea.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Bull. You don't need to consume entertainment media that doesn't entertain you in order to form some nebulous idea of what life is like in their shoes, as if a movie or tv show is even remotely an accurate portrayal of life. It's called entertainment, not education. This is a silly expression of self-superiority.
TickleMeElbow
Member
I was browsing Netflix documentaries last night, and I notice that a lot of documentaries about women had really low scores. For example Hot Girls Wanted had a really low score on Netflix, but has an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes. On IMDB it's rated 6.1. Made me suspect that there's some angry ass MRA dudes giving everything that has to do with women low scores lol.
I haven't seen any of the docs I'm talking about btw. Just noticed a pattern in the rating which I thought was strange.
I haven't seen any of the docs I'm talking about btw. Just noticed a pattern in the rating which I thought was strange.
I don't really see how men rating these shows in a manner that reflects their opinion is Sabotaging them. I watched sex in the city for years with my wife and our view points on it were pretty much polar opposites, on the same hand my wife would review any film made prior to 1980 poorly as she doesn't really have any interest despite many of my favorite films coming from decades before.
Just because I was not a fan of a show that she enjoyed doesn't mean that I am attempting to sabotage it if I choose to share my thoughts on it, nor do I consider it sacrilege when she fell asleep during Monty Pythons Holy grail because she doesn't enjoy British humor.There are a lot of films, and media that we have enjoyed together and some that we could not have had more differeing opinions but I usually find it more valuable as when that difference exists the discussion about the subject is usually far better.I really hate the concept that some believe we should all share the exact same opinions on the ideas,media and information we consume because that doesn't usually benefit anyone.
Just because I was not a fan of a show that she enjoyed doesn't mean that I am attempting to sabotage it if I choose to share my thoughts on it, nor do I consider it sacrilege when she fell asleep during Monty Pythons Holy grail because she doesn't enjoy British humor.There are a lot of films, and media that we have enjoyed together and some that we could not have had more differeing opinions but I usually find it more valuable as when that difference exists the discussion about the subject is usually far better.I really hate the concept that some believe we should all share the exact same opinions on the ideas,media and information we consume because that doesn't usually benefit anyone.
wait... did anyone ever actually care about red dawn?
excelsiorlef
Member
So I did. Ah well bares repeating in general.
So, I mean, let's put it the other way.
Let's assume that you're right and that it's totally reasonable to just rate stuff you experience, even if you don't like it because you're not the target audience.
This article is still an example of sexism in that women are clearly trained NOT to do that thing, but to hide their opinions of those things.
The particular framing or which side you think is "correct" is irrelevant. The point is that men are trained to behave in a particular way involving expressing their opinions more, and women are trained to behave in a particular way involving concealing their opinions, in the same situation.
Netflix red star ratings are the ratings Netflix expects you to give something based on your viewing habits, previous review scores, people who reviewed the piece that have similar viewing habits, and other factors.
It doesn't sound like you have the same viewing habits as angry MRA dudes, but your viewing habits likely reflect more male-dominated tastes.
freeofgreed
Member
Netflix ratings aren't actually user ratings. It's an algorithm based solely on your viewing habits. So If a show or movie has a low rating, it doesn't mean other users rating it low, it means based on your viewing habits, Netflix thinks you wouldn't like it.
Kite
Member
I'd say that instead of trying to shame guys into not reviewing media not specifically aimed at them (lol good luck with that), it's be far more useful to encourage women and girls to to be bold and confident enough to review and give their opinions on anything and everything.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I think the word "sabotaging" is a problem with the article because it is implying intent. However, here's a couple of quotes from that article that address your post:
Again, it's not a thing of just having different preference, unless that preference is "no girls allowed".
I'm not shaming guys into reviewing media not specifically aimed at them, and I don't know where you are getting that idea from that post you quoted. Rather, my post that you quoted is specifically refuting that the argument that men are simply giving lower scores to media no aimed at them isn't true. Women are giving roughly the same score to things aimed at them than to things not aimed at them, and men are giving much lower scores to things not aimed at them.
As for your second part, look what happens online when women try to speak out and be opinionated.
The Albatross
Member
Hilarious...? I like sex and the city but does anybody really find it hilarious? Maybe 15+ years ago when talking about sex on TV was funny... but today?
Byakuya769
Member
How could we expect these guys to relate to women?
Kite
Member
lolol Strangely enough women rated the Red Dawn movie higher than men (6.2 F to 5.3 M)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt
I'd like to think that people are simply rating shows due to their perceived quality. I find it hard to believe that there are people out there analyzing the target demographic of what they are watching before reviewing it.
Other possible (and more likely) conclusions to be drawn are that men are simply more critical than women, or women don't really bother reviewing shows they don't like.
Other possible (and more likely) conclusions to be drawn are that men are simply more critical than women, or women don't really bother reviewing shows they don't like.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Weird. Also note that the biggest gulf is in the under 18 demographic.
Doesn't look that way.
Of All Trades
Member
RIght but that doesn't necessarily mean that men are sabotaging women's shows, women could just be failing to correctly shit on men's shows. The lists used in the article aren't too great, too; unless Spawn got revived recently there's a huge time spread on the top men's shows that could be resulting in unseen errors due to nostalgia/hypernerds.
And I haven't watched AVGN in some years but when did the show become misogynist? Using Ghostbusters as an example isn't too useful.
Also Sex and the City took a giant dump in quality after Carrie dumped Aiden and I've talked to few women who disagree.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Ah shit I didn't know that.
Makes sense since all I watch is Always Sunny, Peaky Blinders, Archer, and Nature documentaries lol.
You really think entertainment isn't educating you?
I'm guessing a fewer proportion of women have seen Entourage than men have seen Sex in the City, using that specific example.
Kite
Member
I'm starting to suspect that guys are simply more critical in general, found some interesting info on this IMDB study from 2014:
https://stephenfollows.com/do-film-critics-and-audiences-agree/
Female audience members tend to give films higher scores then male audiences
Older audience members give films much lower ratings than younger audiences
Rotten Tomatoes seems to have a higher proportion of women voting than IMDbs 1 in 5 ratio of women to men.
IMDb seems to be staffed by men aged between 18 to 29 who dislike Black Comedies and love the 1995 classic Showgirls.
Rotten Tomatoes appears to be better than IMDb at representing women
Rotten TomatoesRotten Tomatoes does not offer a split by gender. However, by comparing the gender breakdown on IMDb votes we can speculate that they have a more equal gender split than IMDbs figure of 80% of votes coming from men. My deduction is due mostly to there being many female-skewed films in the Rotten Tomatoes audience top 20, including Life Is Beautiful, The Pianist and Amelie (see earlier in this article for female Top 10 films).
https://stephenfollows.com/do-film-critics-and-audiences-agree/
Female audience members tend to give films higher scores then male audiences
Older audience members give films much lower ratings than younger audiences
Rotten Tomatoes seems to have a higher proportion of women voting than IMDbs 1 in 5 ratio of women to men.
IMDb seems to be staffed by men aged between 18 to 29 who dislike Black Comedies and love the 1995 classic Showgirls.
Rotten Tomatoes appears to be better than IMDb at representing women
Rotten TomatoesRotten Tomatoes does not offer a split by gender. However, by comparing the gender breakdown on IMDb votes we can speculate that they have a more equal gender split than IMDbs figure of 80% of votes coming from men. My deduction is due mostly to there being many female-skewed films in the Rotten Tomatoes audience top 20, including Life Is Beautiful, The Pianist and Amelie (see earlier in this article for female Top 10 films).
MotionBlue
Member
This is really interesting, I'm sure marketing groups already trawl it for data. I'm curious if it accounts for men being more likely to use the internet.
That isn't what this is. Stop using it like that.
Edit:
That isn't what this is. Stop using it like that.
Edit:
Amelie was awesome.
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