thecouncil
Banned
Don't limit yourself. It spreads to dating and gaming threads around here too. Then take a look at social media sites. Then politics. Keep pulling that thread.
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FiveThirtyEight: Men Are Sabotaging The Online Reviews Of TV Shows Aimed At Women
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Don't limit yourself. It spreads to dating and gaming threads around here too. Then take a look at social media sites. Then politics. Keep pulling that thread.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
bolded part makes me laugh :>
and yessssssssssssssssssss on sex and the city comment after aiden was dumped
Ether_Snake
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Like I said on the previous page, it seems far more likely that the ratings would come from people who had to watch the show with their girlfriends/wives and didn't like the show than basement dwelling misogynists down-voting those shows, otherwise the average ratings from men would be closer to 1.
Dumb article.
Dumb article.
That is literally the point I am making in the post you responded to. It doesn't matter which of those is true. They are two different views of the same example of sexism.
But the women who had to watch a "man's show" either didn't shit up the ratings or were able to enjoy something that wasn't geared specifically for them.
At which point normal people say, "oh this isn't meant for me, back to the a team..."
Instead of deliberately undermining it out of spite or sheer stupidity.
Littlefang
Member
If I do ever use IMDB ratings for girly shows, I find it helps to look at the ratings for individual episodes instead since those tend to be less affected by people going through and rating one star to a show that really isn't targeted towards then. Hell that's probably true for most shows actually.
uncelestial
Member
What does misogyny have to do with this?
As far as I'm concerned the solution is for women to stop being so nice to stupid men's shows like Entourage.
brianmcdoogle
Member
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
i seeee, the onus is on women to stop being such a failure at correctly shitting on shows
of course!
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
No, I think mostly it entertains me. If I want it to be educational I'd approach it from a literary criticism perspective, for example. I thought Ibsen's a "A Doll's House" was dull. I successfully got an A in class when assigned a project to do a feminist literary criticism of the play, and can appreciate why it's groundbreaking from a feminist perspective. If you ask me to rate it out of ten I'm not going to give it high marks, because it didn't entertain me. Fact is, when I am done a days worth of intellectual pursuits at work, or reading the latest news, current events, research in my field, or whatever it is I do all day, I just want to go home and be entertained. You don't learn from passive entertainment. You can learn by actively looking at it through a critical lens, but that's not how most people spend their time with entertainment.
That's not really how the mind works. We learn based on everything that we see and hear. It doesn't matter if we're passive or not, ideas are filtered in through our brain that shapes the way that we see the world.
uncelestial
Member
The onus is on nobody. Nobody needs to do anything. This isn't something that matters. It's a symptom of something that does matter which is male normative culture, but nobody, not men, not women, owes entertainment that is not for them, a positive review, if they don't like it.
Now, if male normative culture - patriarchy, let's call it - were obsolete, I wonder how these voting habits would change? Without women being conditioned to accept male-targeted entertainment as the norm, it's almost as if the votes for shows like Entourage would go... Down?
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
People who are learning any significant amount from popular media have bigger problems than "not consuming a diverse enough field" of popular entertainment. This is a silly point. Entertainment is passive. You do it solely for gratification. There's no point in forcing yourself to consume media that doesn't please you most of the time, and if you are "forcing" yourself, you're not doing it for entertainment, you're doing it for enrichment or education.
You can make an argument that in a college degree program there needs to be a wide and diverse body of literature for students to consume to make sure their points of view are varied and balanced. Trying to apply that same argument to leisure activity is ridiculous to me. It's like telling someone they are ignorant if the only physical activity they do is jogging or golf. They should be playing sports, but not just one sport, all sports equally so they are well rounded!
This is such a ridiculous leap. It's just as easily evidence that women simply have a broader array or interests. It's just as easily evidence that female centric entertainment does a worse job at bringing in male audience than male entertainment does for female audiences. There are literally no conclusions to be drawn from this other than men rate media aimed at females more negatively. Anything else is pure speculation.
SolicitorPirate
Member
It really is. Men are so used to being the default audience that we get incredibly uncomfortable when we're not the target audience, and we lash out.
Harassing feminist critics, hating female comedians, seeing female bosses as frigid and bitchy, hating media made for women; all these behaviours come from the same core feeling, even if the particular manifestation of that feeling may be different.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
i was partially joking~ i commented on a post above that the idea made me laugh :>
but in general, im quite serious that i think i love the idea that everyone wouldnt shit on other people's things, is all
i donno why men have to be so harsh on female-centric media, in the first place :3
Of All Trades
Member
Unless the goal is to present a factoid and nothing more the difference does matter because it changes the intended outcome. Men shitting on women's shows less is a different outcome than women shitting on men's shows more. Further, it's not really the same form of sexism (at least not without broadening sexism into a overly broad lump), as one has to do with (if the premise is corrrect) men's views towards women's preferences while the other has much more to do with how women internalize their role, behavior, or something else.
uncelestial
Member
No worries!
I think men are used to being able to stay ensconced in male-targeted media and don't have to cross over to the other side very often and watch stuff that wasn't really made with them in mind. But women have to do that all the time. That's how things like the "male gaze" (camera shots that are looking female characters up and down just like a man would) are getting noticed in mainstream movies. But it's also why men have such low tolerance for being out of their comfort zone--they rarely have to be. "Ewww, romcom. 1/5 stars."
I honestly thought saying "cmon sisters just downvote violent macho shit you don't really relate to" was empowering. And someday, when media isn't so male-centric, I predict that's exactly what they're going to do.
uncelestial
Member
I dunno man, women having a "broader array of interests" (I.E. entertainment targeted at men) sounds like a pretty obvious symptom of cultural conditioning to me.
And female targeted entertainment doing "a worse job at bringing in male audience than male entertainment does for females" sounds like men being conditioned to never have to leave their comfort zone.
YoYo Switch
Banned
Well I imagine if you're a dude who watched sex and the city you wouldn't find it very entertaining
uncelestial
Member
Agreed with this. "Sabotage" is pretty clickbaity.
Of course not. It's terrible that men are expressing their opinions of media they don't like. Super gross.
Look, maybe you just read the headline, but there's no evidence that this is a bunch of MRAs violently 1-starring chick flicks. It looks more like men giving honest but unfavorable views to media they don't like. What exactly is your problem with that?
Also, it sounds like there are more men rating TV shows on the internet in general. So that's how it works out.
hodayathink
Member
If I were going to rate Hot Girls Wanted, I'd put it low as well, and it has nothing to do with it being about women. And even ignoring my point of view, it's an anti-porn documentary on the internet. Of course it's going to get rated badly.
I'm always amazed when people think they're not affected by the media they consume.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
You are free to speculate, as long as you acknowledge it's speculation. I can speculate that women having a broader array of interests stems from the fact that there are studied differences in levels of empathy between gender, and inherent difference gives them a more easy ability to put themselves into the shoes of characters across a broad spectrum of forms of entertainment. Or I can speculate a dozen other things. It's still all just speculation.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
The way we rate content is bad. People unload all their bullshit into a 10 or a 1.
YoYo Switch
Banned
I don't see how any numbers based evidence can lead to the conclusion reached in the headline. Not without a heaping help of projection.
Yes?
Is anyone suggesting that?
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Men aren't not hating on it because they're sexist, they're hating on it because they look bad
kavanf1
Member
No surprises here. Many many men were forced to sit through the entirety of Sex and the City with their wives or partners. It aired pre-Netflix and DVR. Sitting there, quietly seething at having to endure another episode, men sought vengeance the only way they knew how: by scoring the show slightly lower than women on IMDB.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Such a foreign concept to me. I ain't watching shit I don't like..it's why I have more than one television.
I can attest to this. I always start sweating and shaking whenever I walk past women's makeup section at the mall. The patriarchy made me this way, it's not my fault!
TatteredHat
Member
That doesn't sound like sabotaging as much as it's just people leaving their opinions on a show.
kavanf1
Member
Most people didn't have two tvs in those days either. Back then there was only one way to punish your partner when you disliked a show they enjoyed.
Did HBO attempt to build an another show after Sex and the City to keep that audience? I haven't watched the show, but it doesn't seem to get as much credit for building the brand and changing the television landscape like Sopranos or even The Wire.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
It has some hilarious moments. Usually when the main characters are giving each other shit.
Never once have I thought, watching Scandal, that it's aimed at women.
Diprosalic
Banned
sigh.. no of course not.
Same with downvoting the Ghostbusters trailer.
It's just that even good shows get rated lower by men because it's not for them so it must be bad. It's just a statistical trend.
Langdon Alger
Banned
Agreed. But that isn't going to stop people in this thread from making a million wild, baseless assumptions.
Alot of focused female media is of questionable quality, alot I consider bad I don't mean that simply because it doesn't fit my tastes I mean from a writing, directing, editing, ect, tends to be of average quality. Its only now were starting to get decent female focused media such as SPY a really great action film that has the quality to make it a universal movie for both genders to enjoy.
That being said yeah I defiantly think there is sadly a loud minority of men that are trying to ruin any media that is aimed at women.
That being said yeah I defiantly think there is sadly a loud minority of men that are trying to ruin any media that is aimed at women.
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