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[PataHikari]

no one on GAF should ever have an opinion

ok

I guess Internet Athiests have "have an opinion" and "smugly insulting people" mixed up.

I'm sorry.

 

[Dead Man]

PataHikari 20
Uchip 16
Pinko Marx 7
Log4Girlz 7
Sean! 6
Dead Man 6
jediyoshi 5
Klocker 5
Roche 5
Ploid 3.0 5
saunderez 4
travisbickle 4
salva 3
Lead Based Paint 3
Jitters 3
Nesotenso 3
Emitan 3


Hmm....

 

[wsoxfan1214]

Got to fit in

Congratulations on making an even more childish rationalization for your actions, thus further reinforcing the irony of your accusations. It's hilarious to watch.

 

[Agent Cooper]

It might be because I'm a total idiot, but was she on the plane or did it just land on her house, in her lawn? I'm confused. She's a crash survivor? I'm... I feel really dumb.

 

[MIMIC]

Yes, that is the point. Using that to claim god is good is a flaw in reasoning. I am not saying it is uncommon, just that it is not something that should be given a free pass just because it is common. It should not be off limits to dicuss just because it is religious.

Well people say "life is good" (or "it's a great day to be alive") all the time. Do we really have to take everyone existence into account?

I mean, she obviously meant that God was good to her, specifically.

 

[Horse Detective]

PataHikari 20
Uchip 16
Pinko Marx 7
Log4Girlz 7
Sean! 6
Dead Man 6
jediyoshi 5
Klocker 5
Roche 5
Ploid 3.0 5
saunderez 4
travisbickle 4
salva 3
Lead Based Paint 3
Jitters 3
Nesotenso 3
Emitan 3


Hmm....

Ugh 5th place

 

[PataHikari]

Congratulations on making an even more childish rationalization for your actions, thus further reinforcing the irony of your accusations. It's hilarious to watch.

What am I trying to rationalize?

Said from the start that I'm mocking people. I don't care if I'm acting "childish" because at least I'm making a jackass of myself at people that can respond to me.

Except this post. this one's serious.

 

[Dead Man]

It might be because I'm a total idiot, but was she on the plane or did it just land on her house, in her lawn? I'm confused. She's a crash survivor? I'm... I feel really dumb.

She survived the crash but she was not a passenger, the plane crashed into her house.

Well people say "life is good" all the time. Do we really have to take everyone existence into account?

I mean, she obviously meant that God was good to her, specifically.

Yeah, but she was using her survival as a claim that a specific entity is good, not a state of being. Life is good. The shit that happens during it is not always good. There is also an implicit 'my' in life is good. My life is good. There is no such qualifier for god unles she really did mean her god was was good, and those on plane should have had a better one.

 

[Agent Cooper]

She survived the crash but she was not a passenger, the plane crashed into her house.

Okay, thank you.

 

[Uchip]

It might be because I'm a total idiot, but was she on the plane or did it just land on her house, in her lawn? I'm confused. She's a crash survivor? I'm... I feel really dumb.

it landed on her house
and apparently shes reaaaaally upset and I cant have an opinion about her!
(even though she seemed really stoked that god loves her, so I dont think shes too torn up about it)

 

[zoukka]

Well people say "life is good" (or "it's a great day to be alive") all the time. Do we really have to take everyone existence into account?

I mean, she obviously meant that God was good to her, specifically.

Exactly.

 

[delta25]

are you joking? supposedly god talked to her and told her what to do in order to survive

but how does this make her insensitive, I think she's very much aware that she could have died yet believed she was spared and because of this feels it was gods work, she makes no mention of some greater plan. God works in mysterious ways, right?

 

[Roche]

Yes, that is the point. Using that to claim god is good is a flaw in reasoning. I am not saying it is uncommon, just that it is not something that should be given a free pass just because it is common. It should not be off limits to dicuss just because it is religious.

I understand what you're saying and I agree fully that it should be a topic of discussion, but I don't really think it's a "flaw" in Religion if it gives people comfort in otherwise unpleasant circumstances. I actually think in many situations being able to harbor the belief that there's something more to life is a great benefit.

While it may seem selfish, using the expression "God is good" allows this woman to be able to deal with such a terrible accident. While I do see the irony in the statement she clearly wasn't intending to disregard the fact that three others died, rather it allowed her to come to terms with it.

Anyways I hope that makes sense, I'm terrible at expressing my views in situations such as this.

 

[PataHikari]

but how does this make her insensitive, I think she's very much aware that she could have died yet believed she was spared and because of this feels it was gods work, she makes no mention of some greater plan. God works in mysterious ways, right?

Obviously she was supposed to shout "YOU MISSED!" to the heavens and then shoot herself.

Only way to show she cares.

 

[Uchip]

but how does this make her insensitive, I think she's very much aware that she could have died yet believed she was spared and because of this feels it was gods work, she makes no mention of some greater plan. God works in mysterious ways, right?

if this is the full interview, and she says nothing about the deceased then it could very easily be interpreted as being insensitive. Its common decency to at least acknowledge that a bunch of people died in your house rather than just praising god

 

[Lost Fragment]

You guys are playing semantics with a woman who just survived her house getting Donnie Darko'd?

Yeah, this thread really isn't that far from what you'd see on /r/atheism.

 

[Dead Man]

I understand what you're saying and I agree fully that it should be a topic of discussion, but I don't really think it's a "flaw" in Religion if it gives people comfort in otherwise unpleasant circumstances. I actually think in many situations being able to harbor the belief that there's something more to life is a great benefit.

While it may seem selfish using the expression "God is good" allows this woman to be able to deal with such a terrible accident. While I do see the irony in the statement she clearly wasn't intending to disregard the fact that three others died, rather it allowed her to come to terms with it.

Anyways I hope that makes sense, I'm terrible at expressing my views in situations such as this.

I think you're making sense, I think I understand your point, anyway I agree religion can be a benefit to the individual, but cases like this are to me why it is a detriment to society. It removes the possibilty of chance, and creates a moral reason for bad things happening to people. It creates the feeling that the person left to thank god was a better person that those who are not.

 

[Uchip]

It creates the feeling that the person left to thank god was a better person that those who are not.

exactly why it can be seen as being insensitive

 

[PataHikari]

I think you're making sense, I think I understand your point, anyway I agree religion can be a benefit to the individual, but cases like this are to me why it is a detriment to society. It removes the possibilty of chance, and creates a moral reason for bad things happening to people. It creates the feeling that the person left to thank god was a better person that those who are not.

Why does it assume that?

It could be argued that those who died are better people. After all, maybe if God hadn't saved her she wouldn't be able to do something that would get her heaven.

Also, I'm pretty sure that "Bad things only happen to bad people" is not part of any mainstream religious thought.

In Christianity, in particular, "Bad things happening to good people" is a freaking theme.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

I think you're making sense, I think I understand your point, anyway I agree religion can be a benefit to the individual, but cases like this are to me why it is a detriment to society. It removes the possibilty of chance, and creates a moral reason for bad things happening to people. It creates the feeling that the person left to thank god was a better person that those who are not.

. I don't think this is anywhere near the truth.

 

[zoukka]

exactly why it can be seen as being insensitive

Which is more likely? She's insensitive and thinks ill of the deceased or she said whatever she's used to saying at dramatic moments without further analyzing the situation?

Now try to apply your critical thinking on why you immediately chose the first option and stuck with it.

 

[Dead Man]

. I don't think this is anywhere near the truth.

Why not?

 

[Uchip]

Which is more likely? She's insensitive and thinks ill of the deceased or she said whatever she's used to saying at dramatic moments without further analyzing the situation?

Now try to apply your critical thinking on why you immediately chose the first option and stuck with it.

its a matter of expectations, and social norms.
You're suggesting she simply lacks tact? its possible, but unlikely enough that I can safely guess.

Does it matter if I could be wrong?

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Which is more likely? She's insensitive and thinks ill of the deceased or she said whatever she's used to saying at dramatic moments without further analyzing the situation?

Now try to apply your critical thinking on why you immediately chose the first option and stuck with it.

It's funny because both people are making the "error" of lack of perspective.... Hey maybe religion isn't that bad after all!

 

[PataHikari]

its a matter of expectations, and social norms.

Where do you live where a person saying "God is good" or "Thank God" after surviving an accident is a faux pas?

 

[Princess Carl]

Which is more likely? She's insensitive and thinks ill of the deceased or she said whatever she's used to saying at dramatic moments without further analyzing the situation?

Now try to apply your critical thinking on why you immediately chose the first option and stuck with it.

Why shouldn't she be expected to apply this critical thinking to her own statements and beliefs? Why does the burden of this thinking fall on uchip first? Additionally, you could make the argument that the interview is well past the point for the excuse for her statement to be attributed to a dramatic moment in her life. She had plenty of time to consider the repercussions of the event before the interview, and to attribute her survival to god while not sparing the lives of three other perfectly worthy humans definitely seems insensitive to me.

 

[Uchip]

Where do you live where a person saying "God is good" or "Thank God" after surviving an accident is a faux pas?

did you even read the interview in the OP or are you just trying to argue because you're bored? She proclaimed hearing voices that told her how to survive, it wasn't a matter of simply saying "thank god"

 

[saunderez]

Where do you live where a person saying "God is good" or "Thank God" after surviving an accident is a faux pas?

"Thank God" is fine. Saying "God Is Good" when 3 people died is insenstive. From their families point of view they probably think he's a bit of a dick right now. It's not rocket science.

 

[PataHikari]

did you even read the interview in the OP or are you just trying to argue because you're bored? She proclaimed hearing voices that told her how to survive, it wasn't a matter of simply saying "thank god"

And where do you live that a religious person feeling that they've experienced divine intervention in a dramatic moment of their life is a faux pas?

 

[Roche]

I think you're making sense, I think I understand your point, anyway I agree religion can be a benefit to the individual, but cases like this are to me why it is a detriment to society. It removes the possibilty of chance, and creates a moral reason for bad things happening to people. It creates the feeling that the person left to thank god was a better person that those who are not.

I see what you mean about it being a detriment to society and I agree for the most part. Though I'm not sure there's much you can do about it, we all know that people don't like to think that things happen for no reason, it's human nature to want to believe there's more order to the universe than what we observe day to day.

It seems to me that it really becomes a problem to society as a whole when people use this moral reason they've created for themselves as a justification to take action. What I mean by that is if this woman were to go out and say that she survived this solely because she worships a certain deity, it would negatively impact society.

I've always thought that people should come to terms with their existence as independently as they based upon their own experience of life.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope the incident instills in the woman more a sense of "I should continue being a good person." More than "This means I am the chosen one, I must spread the word."

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

You guys are playing semantics with a woman who just survived her house getting Donnie Darko'd?

Yeah, this thread really isn't that far from what you'd see on /r/atheism.

Yea...

I think you're making sense, I think I understand your point, anyway I agree religion can be a benefit to the individual, but cases like this are to me why it is a detriment to society. It removes the possibilty of chance, and creates a moral reason for bad things happening to people. It creates the feeling that the person left to thank god was a better person that those who are not.

Even if you remove any trace of God from her statements, what makes you think that any person in that situation wouldn't give similar testimony to the person interviewing them?

edit: What was she supposed to say? Sucks to be the poor saps on the plane?

 

[Uchip]

And where do you live that a religious person feeling that they've experienced divine intervention in a dramatic moment of their life is a faux pas?

you're taking my post out of context and ignoring most of what I said
the implied social norm is to acknowledge the deaths of the people involved in said accident.

 

[zoukka]

its a matter of expectations, and social norms.
You're suggesting she simply lacks tact? its possible, but unlikely enough that I can safely guess.

Does it matter if I could be wrong?

No I am just interested at this discussion, where people who ridicule her for not applying critical thinking, seem to lack it themselves. I mean sure on paper it looks kinda bad to thank god in a situation where people got killed, but people do get killed everyday and people still thank god. That's how humans think and work.

Oh the games over it seems.

 

[Dead Man]

I see what you mean about it being a detriment to society and I agree for the most part. Though I'm not sure there's much you can do about it, we all know that people don't like to think that things happen for no reason, it's human nature to want to believe there's more order to the universe than what we observe day to day.

It seems to me that it really becomes a problem to society as a whole when people use this moral reason they've created for themselves as a justification to take action. What I mean by that is if this woman were to go out and say that she survived this solely because she worships a certain deity, it would negatively impact society.

I've always thought that people should come to terms with their existence as independently as they based upon their own experience of life.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope the incident instills in the woman more a sense of "I should continue being a good person." More than "This means I am the chosen one, I must spread the word."

I think ascribing it to human nature does a great disservice to the flexibility of the human mind. Many people live full lives without needing supernatural explanations, I don't think they are inherently different or better than those who do not. But yeah, I agree that there is a positive way to use her comments, as a suggestion for continued goodness.

Yea...



Even if you remove any trace of God from her statements, what makes you think that any person in that situation wouldn't give similar testimony to the person interviewing them?

edit: What was she supposed to say? Sucks to be the poor saps on the plane?

If you remove any trace of God you end up with " I sure was lucky'. To which it would be easy to add 'and those poor people that died were not, condolences to their family'.

Edit: Ah, maybe it was a bad idea to post it.

 

[cutmeamango]

did you even read the interview in the OP or are you just trying to argue because you're bored? She proclaimed hearing voices that told her how to survive, it wasn't a matter of simply saying "thank god"

Crockett said she was getting ready to leave her house when something told her to stop. A few more feet, she said, and she would have been hit.

Tell me more.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

If you remove any trace of God you end up with " I sure was lucky'. To which it would be easy to add 'and those poor people that died were not, condolences to their family'.

And how many people actually say this?

Edit: I'd wage that the first half of that statement sounds infinitely more insensitive than anything this lucky women said... :/

 

[MIMIC]

Yeah, but she was using her survival as a claim that a specific entity is good, not a state of being. Life is good. The shit that happens during it is not always good. There is also an implicit 'my' in life is good. My life is good. There is no such qualifier for god unles she really did mean her god was was good, and those on plane should have had a better one.

"God is good" = "God is good to me" the same way "Life is good" = "My life is good"

I mean, it seems kinda unfair to make assumptions about her statements. We don't assume that people saying "life is good" mean that those with shitty lives need to get better ones/stop living.

 

[Dead Man]

And how many people actually say this?

How many people say condolences? Or bad luck? A lot, I would think.

"God is good" = "God is good to me" the same way "Life is good" = "My life is good"

I mean, it seems kinda unfair to make assumptions about her statements.

If you want to take that approach, then why was good not good to everyone else?

 

[Lost Fragment]

If you remove any trace of God you end up with " I sure was lucky'. To which it would be easy to add 'and those poor people that died were not, condolences to their family'.

She very well could have said something to that effect, and it just didn't make it into the story.

 

[Dead Man]

She very well could have said something to that effect, and it just didn't make it into the story.

Yes, but she also said 'God is good'. You can't talk about what she might have said, or someone could just as easily say she might have said they were godless communists and deserved to die. Ridiculous but just as possible as any other statement we have no evidence for.

 

[zoukka]

How many people say condolences? Or bad luck? A lot, I would think.

I'm pretty sure she's talked about that outside of the interview.

Yes, but she also said 'God is good'. You can't talk about what she might have said, or someone could just as easily say she might have said they were godless communists and deserved to die. Ridiculous but just as possible as any other statement we have no evidence for.

"just as possible", lol no. We can expect some things from the average citizen.

 

[Princess Carl]

"God is good" = "God is good to me" the same way "Life is good" = "My life is good"

I mean, it seems kinda unfair to make assumptions about her statements. We don't assume that people saying "life is good" mean that those with shitty lives need to get better ones/stop living.

While true, you could argue that "life" has no real bias to anyone on this planet, while "god", to those who believe in him/her, is a being actively involved in their lives and not in others.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm pretty sure she's talked about that outside of the interview.

Complain to Oldschoolgamer, he's the one that said people never said things like that.

"just as possible", lol no. We can expect some things from the average citizen.

Just as possible, not just as probable.

 

[zoukka]

Complain to Oldschoolgamer, he's the one that said people never said things like that.

Well I'd think people don't often speak about things that are not asked from them in interviews. And honestly the average person can be insensitive even though they don't mean any harm by it. It's rare to see people talking and constantly covering all sensitive areas with care no matter the topic. It's usually just the persons individualist position that comes up.

While true, you could argue that "life" has no real bias to anyone on this planet, while "god", to those who believe in him/her, is a being actively involved in their lives and not in others.

You do realise the details of how god works vary from person to person and it's silly to assume one way or the other, when talking about how god interacts with mankind.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Complain to Oldschoolgamer, he's the one that said people never said things like that.

I brought it up, because it seems like the lack of her mentioning the families of others is the biggest thing you have a problem with. And I said what I said, because it doesn't always happen the way you wrote it.

It would be just as easy for her to have said, "condolences to the family" in this interview. She just didn't, and probably wasn't because she was trying to be ignorant.

 

[Kettch]

Edit: I'd wage that the first half of that statement sounds infinitely more insensitive than anything this lucky women said... :/

Really? To me, saying you were lucky implies the other people weren't lucky. I don't see anything insensitive about that, unless you're Obi-wan Kenobi. People are said to be unlucky all the time.

Saying god saved you implies god didn't save the other people. If those people believed in a god, that could certainly be hurtful to their families.

 

[Roche]

I think ascribing it to human nature does a great disservice to the flexibility of the human mind. Many people live full lives without needing supernatural explanations, I don't think they are inherently different or better than those who do not. But yeah, I agree that there is a positive way to use her comments, as a suggestion for continued goodness.

I would think that seeking reasons behind features of everyday life is one of the greater aspects of the human mind, we just have a tendency to create reasons for such things which we cannot explain and are slow to adapt when we do find answers to that which previously had none.

I wasn't trying to imply that belief in a supernatural power makes you any different or better than those that don't share your views. I actually think the opposite is true. Which is why I think people should find their own conclusions with as little interference as possible, because it doesn't really matter what you believe or don't believe. As long as you don't use it to interfere with others or as an excuse for your actions, think what makes you comfortable.

 

[MIMIC]

If you want to take that approach, then why was good not good to everyone else?

I have no idea. But that's not the point. She said "God was good" and then explicitly thanked him for saving her life. She didn't just say "God is good" and that was it; she said why she thought he was good. Just like if I woke up in a great mood and said "life is good", there would be a reason why I said it.

The fact that she meant good to "her" was obvious. That's the way I took it at least.

While true, you could argue that "life" has no real bias to anyone on this planet, while "god", to those who believe in him/her, is a being actively involved in their lives and not in others.

Well people who believe in God get killed in tragic accidents all the time. We don't know the faith of those that died, and neither does she.....so how are we able to make claims about what she thought of those who died?

 

[Dead Man]

I would think that seeking reasons behind features of everyday life is one of the greater aspects of the human mind, we just have a tendency to create reasons for such things which we cannot explain and are slow to adapt when we do find answers to that which previously had none.

I wasn't trying to imply that belief in a supernatural power makes you any different or better than those that don't share your views. I actually think the opposite is true. Which is why I think people should find their own conclusions with as little interference as possible, because it doesn't really matter what you believe or don't believe. As long as you don't use it to interfere with others or as an excuse for your actions, think what makes you comfortable.

Ah, I may have misunderstood you a bit then, sorry.

I brought it up, because it seems like the lack of her mentioning the families of others is the biggest thing you have a problem with. And I said what I said, because it doesn't always happen the way you wrote it.

It would be just as easy for her to have said, "condolences to the family" in this interview. She just didn't, and probably wasn't because she was trying to be ignorant.

No, the only thing I really have a problem with is 'God is good' is justified by her being alive. The rest is editing, or whatever, I don't really care about that. I just dislike and distrust the mindset that events that happen by chance are ascribable to god when they work in your favour, but god is not responsible for the horrible things that happen to people.

I have no idea. But that's not the point. She said "God was good" and then explicitly thanked him for saving her life. She didn't just say "God is good" and that was it; she said why she thought he was good. Just like if I woke up in a great mood and said "life is good", there would be a reason why I said it.

The fact that she meant good to "her" was obvious. That's the way I took it at least.

A bit of a cheap reply sorry, but see above for my thoughts on this.

 

[MIMIC]

No, the only thing I really have a problem with is 'God is good' is justified by her being alive. The rest is editing, or whatever, I don't really care about that. I just dislike and distrust the mindset that events that happen by chance are ascribable to god when they work in your favour, but god is not responsible for the horrible things that happen to people.

Well if someone did a horrible thing and did a just as equally amazing thing, what would they be?