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Football Thread 13/14 |OT14| Juan Flew Into The Slug's Nest

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B

Broder Salsa

Banned
sohois said:
Well, the argument is that he is one of the best strikers in PL history, so I'm just looking at his PL stats.
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I don't even see where that argument is made. Maybe I'm confused as I just woke up (from a 3 hour nap), but his importance to that Chelsea team and what he added to it can't just be seen through stats. He was a monster.
 
E

Elchele

Member
Sporting director Matthias Sammer told reporters following Saturday's 2-0 victory over Nurnberg: "Javi Martinez to Real Madrid, Muller, I don't know, to Dynamo Dresden, it's all rubbish.

"We're a buying club, not a selling club. And to think about Martinez or Muller for only a second... that's the only thing that bothers me a bit."
Click to expand...

Sammer innit :)
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
sohois said:
Drogba's goalscoring records:
Apps Goals
  • 26 10
  • 29 12
  • 36 20
  • 19 8
  • 24 5
  • 32 29
  • 36 11
  • 24 5

That's 2 seasons of absolute shit, one in which he can claim to have been injured, and 3 of distinctly poor returns, just scraping past 10 goals.
Click to expand...

And one where he was used sparingly by RDM at an age older than a lot of the other strikers you named hung around for. You named Andy Cole as someone with a far better goal return than Drogba, but let's look at his since the treble win (league only, as with Drogba):

99/00 - 19 in 28
00/01 - 9 in 19
01/02 - 13 in 26
02/03 - 7 in 34
03/04 - 11 in 34
04/05 - 12 in 31
05/06 - 9 in 22

Poorer than Drogba, but with far less overall quality in his play and much less impact on his team.

In addition, I thought the 'well, he's one stuff and the others haven't' argument was accepted as being bullshit when Ribery lost the Ballon d'or? Everyone insisted then that the measure of a player where purely his performances, not titles.
Click to expand...

It was when Ronaldo and Messi were better players. But you won't see me arguing Drogba deserved to win the Ballon d'Or or that Ribery wasn't in with a shout. There's a difference between 'Ribery shouldn't win the ballon d'Or despite winning everything' and 'Ribery shouldn't win because Ronaldo and Messi have simply been better'.

Drogba was a great player, as evidenced by his impact in Chelsea's title haul. Ribery is a great player, as evidenced by his impact in Bayern's title haul. That's different than arguing he was the best individual player, which isn't what I was doing (and wasn't what you were doing originally).
 
B

Broder Salsa

Banned
Hazard should have been nominated instead of Ribery.
iZ3GVkzpVf18t.png
 
E

Elchele

Member
Exiled Kroos must accept Guardiola's decision

The midfielder has been frozen out at the Allianz Arena and while his captain has some sympathy for his team-mate's plight, he says that the coach's authority has to be respected

Bayern Munich skipper Philipp Lahm has told Toni Kroos that he must accept his exile from the first team with good grace.

The Germany international reacted angrily to being substituted during the recent 2-1 win over Stuttgart and was left on the bench for the two subsequent Bundesliga games.

While his captain can understand his team-mate's frustration at being frozen out, he says that Pep Guardiola's authority must be respected.

"It's not nice for Toni, that much is clear," Lahm told reporters. "But the coach makes the decisions and everyone has to accept them."

Meanwhile, former Bayern and Germany midfielder Stefan Effenberg has also voiced his sympathy for the 24-year-old Kroos.

"This is a bitter pill to swallow for Toni," he said in his capacity as a pundit for Sky.

"He always played under [former boss Jupp] Heynckes, but that's over. It's not favourable because the World Cup is around the corner."

Kroos recently revealed that contract renewal talks with Bayern have reached an impasse, with his current deal set to expire in the summer of 2015.
Click to expand...

http://www.goal.com/en/news/15/germ...-accept-guardiolas-decision-lahm?ICID=HP_BN_6

Kroos getting a good punishment for being a cunt. This will teach him we can live without him
 
C

Clegg

Member
Are we saying Rooney is shit again?

He's one of the few United players who haven't been underperforming this season. Played quite well all things considered.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Yurt said:
please let's not do this again

you seem to fucking love it
Click to expand...

:p

In all seriousness though, Messi deserved his 3-in-a-row and the only arguments to be made against that are irrelevant to the criteria imo

Out of interest, what happened to Italy's coefficient with 2 teams getting knocked out in the group stage and what'll happen if Milan lose to Atletico? I imagine it'd take like a decade of that happening to lose another spot, but I'd like to know anyway :p
 
S

sohois

Member
WoodenLung said:
I don't even see where that argument is made. Maybe I'm confused as I just woke up (from a 3 hour nap), but his importance to that Chelsea team and what he added to it can't just be seen through stats. He was a monster.
Click to expand...

It's not something that has been stated specifically today but it is an argument that has been made often, indeed Billy Bog Bollocks claimed just earlier that he was in the same class as Henry and Shearer.

Wilbur said:
And one where he was used sparingly by RDM at an age older than a lot of the other strikers you named hung around for. You named Andy Cole as someone with a far better goal return than Drogba, but let's look at his since the treble win (league only, as with Drogba):

99/00 - 19 in 28
00/01 - 9 in 19
01/02 - 13 in 26
02/03 - 7 in 34
03/04 - 11 in 34
04/05 - 12 in 31
05/06 - 9 in 22

Poorer than Drogba, but with far less overall quality in his play and much less impact on his team.
Click to expand...

Well that's rather bizarre that you would cut off the previous 6 years when he was also in the premier league and had far superior goalscoring records. You are deliberately cutting off his peak years and only showing the crap when he was at mid table clubs like Fulham. If you take his previous time into account he has 104 goals in 195 games over 6 seasons. Drogba, by comparison, managed 100 goals in his entire premier league career of 226 games.

It was when Ronaldo and Messi were better players. But you won't see me arguing Drogba deserved to win the Ballon d'Or or that Ribery wasn't in with a shout. There's a difference between 'Ribery shouldn't win the ballon d'Or despite winning everything' and 'Ribery shouldn't win because Ronaldo and Messi have simply been better'.

Drogba was a great player, as evidenced by his impact in Chelsea's title haul. Ribery is a great player, as evidenced by his impact in Bayern's title haul. That's different than arguing he was the best individual player, which isn't what I was doing (and wasn't what you were doing originally).
Click to expand...

That part should have been directed at Billy Big Bollocks who was the one who brought up what Drogba won, not you.
 
Y

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
The_Hitcher89 said:
:p

In all seriousness though, Messi deserved his 3-in-a-row and the only arguments to be made against that are irrelevant to the criteria imo
Click to expand...

FINE

WE GET IT

The_Hitcher89 said:
Out of interest, what happened to Italy's coefficient with 2 teams getting knocked out in the group stage and what'll happen if Milan lose to Atletico? I imagine it'd take like a decade of that happening to lose another spot, but I'd like to know anyway :p
Click to expand...
we have four teams in EL, so we're actually in a better position now...lol

WoodenLung said:
Lets talk about Bidone d'oro instead. Why did you cunts nominate Nicky B?
Click to expand...

Beats me. He wasn't really a flop, he was just permanently injured.
 
C

Clegg

Member
everthustodeadbeats said:
Not trolling. Aguero, Hazard, Suarez, and Ozil have had a far greater impact this season. Why pay that guy that kind of money? He's not even the best player on his own team.
Click to expand...
Like I said he is one of the few players who haven't underperformed this season and has actually performed quite well. He's not just a memory like you were asserting. You're wrong with your comparison between himself and Ozil I think. Rooney is having the better season imo.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
sohois said:
Well that's rather bizarre that you would cut off the previous 6 years when he was also in the premier league and had far superior goalscoring records. You are deliberately cutting off his peak years and only showing the crap when he was at mid table clubs like Fulham. If you take his previous time into account he has 104 goals in 195 games over 6 seasons. Drogba, by comparison, managed 100 goals in his entire premier league career of 226 games.
Click to expand...

And you were comparing the output of a 35 year old Drogba who came off the bench - and still are - with the goals scored by someone like Cole at a much younger age.


104 goals in 195 games when he was at his peak against 100 goals in 226 games including both peak and when he was older and used sparingly. Not so very different, considering Cole was much more of a traditional goalscorer and Drogba a more rounded player.
 
B

Broder Salsa

Banned
sohois said:
It's not something that has been stated specifically today but it is an argument that has been made often, indeed Billy Bog Bollocks claimed just earlier that he was in the same class as Henry and Shearer.
Click to expand...

So you're arguing with yourself and not bringing in all his goals for the sake of the argument. Typical Liverpool supporter behavior.
kqOQCbi.png



Meanwhile the argument could have stopped at this :

ikMyRWq4YwrmZ.gif


IT EVEN GAVE SOME OF THE GREATEST LINES IN FOOTBALL GAF HISTORY
 
C

Clegg

Member
Just seen Fulham's second goal again. Worst thing about it was that there was zero danger in that attack. They just punted a long ball which should've been easy for Vidic to deal with. Carrick was only 10 yards away. Instead he misplaced an easy header straight to Sidwell and they scored from the ensuing break.

Fucking awful.
 
LabouredSubterfuge

LabouredSubterfuge

Member
Really odd and regressive thing about the Fulham game: Rooney and RVP usually dovetail, one dropping deeper to help midfield and transition attack. Against Fulham they played as two strikers side by side. Complete and utter waste. 90's football.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Clegg said:
Just seen Fulham's second goal again. Worst thing about it was that there was zero danger in that attack. They just punted a long ball which should've been easy for Vidic to deal with. Carrick was only 10 yards away. Instead he misplaced an easy header straight to Sidwell and they scored from the ensuing break.

Fucking awful.
Click to expand...

Carrick should have gone to meet the ball instead of waiting for it tbf
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
LabouredSubterfuge said:
Really odd and regressive thing about the Fulham game: Rooney and RVP usually dovetail, one dropping deeper to help midfield and transition attack. Against Fulham they played as two strikers side by side. Complete and utter waste. 90's football.
Click to expand...

I don't get why the players don't just say fuck it and do what they want though. Why are they following this shit to a tee like fucking children?

Footballers piss me off
 
C

Clegg

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
Carrick should have gone to meet the ball instead of waiting for it tbf
Click to expand...
I don't think he could've tbh. He had already slowed down to receive the header. It would've been fine if Vidic hadn't fucked it up. Sidwell was already running onto it by the time Carrick had shifted to his left to get it. Was all down to the crap header.
 
M

Mt Heart Attack

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
Out of interest, what happened to Italy's coefficient with 2 teams getting knocked out in the group stage and what'll happen if Milan lose to Atletico? I imagine it'd take like a decade of that happening to lose another spot, but I'd like to know anyway :p
Click to expand...
The Europa league teams did pretty great so far, and Napoli, while being knocked out of the CL, still got 12 points in their campaign. Italy this season actually has almost as many UEFA points as 2010/11 and 2011/12 already, with plenty of matches (possibly) left to play.

French and Portoguese teams are performing like shit anyways. Even though Portugal has a chance of overtaking us once Italy loses their 2009/10 points (won't last long though since Portugal will have to defend their stellar 2010/11 the following year)

Yurt said:
we have four teams in EL, so we're actually in a better position now...lol
Click to expand...
The losing finalist of Coppa Italia still qualifies to the EL as far as you know? Udinese will fuck up the ranking yet another time next year won't they?:/
 
S

sohois

Member
Wilbur said:
And you were comparing the output of a 35 year old Drogba who came off the bench - and still are - with the goals scored by someone like Cole at a much younger age.

104 goals in 195 games when he was at his peak against 100 goals in 226 games including both peak and when he was older and used sparingly. Not so very different, considering Cole was much more of a traditional goalscorer and Drogba a more rounded player.
Click to expand...

First of all, Drogba is kind of an exception in goal scoring distribution compared to many other strikers, he was 24 by the time he started scoring regularly and his best season came when he was 32. I'm merely comparing players at their peak, not over specific ages. If you took Drogba's 5 best seasons then 2 of those would be at 32 and 33. So it doesn't seem that unfair a comparison. I could take Drogba's goal records at age 22 or 23 but he would look like a joke next to Cole.

So let's just take the 5 best seasons of both then, to remove this age based complaint.: Cole has 106 goals in 170 games. Drogba has 82 goals in 159 games. Cole is still significantly outscoring him
 
F

Fernando Fernandez

Member
VINTAGE MOURINHO MINDGAMES


Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho says Manchester City's Yaya Toure should be banned after appearing to kick Norwich's Ricky van Wolfswinkel.
Toure, 30, could face a three-game ban for the incident, which took place during City's 0-0 draw at Carrow Road.
"If he is not suspended the message is clear - you can do what you want," said Mourinho. "If the FA defends football he has to be suspended."
The Football Association is awaiting referee Jon Moss's report.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
sohois said:
First of all, Drogba is kind of an exception in goal scoring distribution compared to many other strikers, he was 24 by the time he started scoring regularly and his best season came when he was 32. I'm merely comparing players at their peak, not over specific ages. If you took Drogba's 5 best seasons then 2 of those would be at 32 and 33. So it doesn't seem that unfair a comparison. I could take Drogba's goal records at age 22 or 23 but he would look like a joke next to Cole.

So let's just take the 5 best seasons of both then, to remove this age based complaint.: Cole has 106 goals in 170 games. Drogba has 82 goals in 159 games. Cole is still significantly outscoring him
Click to expand...

And I believe Drogba was the better player, which I guess was what this whole debate was about :lol

I don't know, like you mentioned earlier look at Owen. His Liverpool stats are probably bordering on incredible. Do people still value him that highly? Part of that is because he ended up playing for United, partly because he became a nomad, but partly because I don't think he was a great all round player to compensate. Not even deceptively so like Ruud was, but he was more of a (much better) Chicharito.

Drogba was just a better player for me, and is up there with Henry, Shearer and Ronaldo as the best forward 'players' the Premier League has had.
 
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