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Football Thread 13/14 |OT17| I'm Spartacus

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The media attitude towards Moyes over the last 24 hours has summed them up.

Were ready to rip him apart, the piss taking had began. Now you can sense they're ready to get right behind him again.

He's been very very lucky that they're willing him to do well. Would have been a joke figure by now otherwise.
 

Clegg

Member
The media attitude towards Moyes over the last 24 hours has summed them up.

Were ready to rip him apart, the piss taking had began. Now you can sense they're ready to get right behind him again.

He's been very very lucky that they're willing him to do well. Would have been a joke figure by now otherwise.
Heavy defeat to City and a few more poor results will have them right on his back again.

I don't think Moyes' status has really been improved by much.
 

sohois

Member
Chelsea are working on a deal to sign the next big talent from Southampton’s highly-rated academy system – teenage striker Sam Gallagher.

The 18-year-old, who is still largely unknown, has been slowly dipped into the Saints first-team this season, but he set tongues wagging with his first Premier League goal against Norwich at the weekend.

Mauricio Pochettino is keen to keep the 6’4” striker under the radar, but Chelsea scouts are already on to him, and want to sign him at the end of the season.

Southampton have produced stars such as Theo Walcott, Gareth Bale, Adam, Lallana and Luke Shaw from their famed youth setup in recent years, and many believe Gallagher could be the next big thing to emerge.


lol

pls

Luke Shaw you could understand moving on, since he's already good enough to play for the first team of Chelsea or anyone else.

But you really have to hope now, after so many years to evidence, that these young lads with a handful of appearances to their name have cottoned on to the fact that they would be throwing their careers away, especially with the oil clubs.
 
Is this the "Klopp-Effect"?
I watched the last 6 performances of Dortmund and they were all rather bad. Your counter pressing doesnt work, because many teams have found a way to avoid it, still too many missed chances, defence is hilarious, defensive midfield is vulnerable etc. You downplay PSGs great performance against Neverkusen, but forget to mention that Zenit doesnt play at the moment, because the league hasnt even started in Russia. They managed to score 4 goals against you and you were basically out in the group stage with losses too.

And last year is history I'm afraid. The only real comparison with one of the clubs this year ended with a 0-3 defeat for Dortmund. Its nothing personal Milch, but I admire Lewandwski for his honesty in his interview for stating the truth: "If we perform like this against the other 7 clubs, we are out and we should not always make it so easy and use the "injuries" as excuse for bad performances". Its pretty obvious that in this state, BVB and United are the weakest teams left in the tournament.

See, you can spin it like you want to. Yes, we miss Reus, Hummels needs a few more games to get going again, Sahin isn't in best shape, etc. But Reus is back soon, Hummels gets his match time, etc. You say Zenit doesn't play at the moment (they actually do now) but Leverkusen is in the worst shape since, don't know, years? And how were we basically out in the group stages with losses? I don't understand.

Of course we have to play better than yesterday, nobody is denying that. But the fact is that we can play better than yesterday. And to be honest, our performance yesterday wasn't all that different from Bayern's against Arsenal. Just did enough to get through. But with Bayern it's all class and just doing what's needed and we are shit because of that.

And the comparison with Bayern is a hard one. Sure, last season Gündogan wasn't dead and Kuba + Subotic not injured. So you might doubt how relevant it still is. But when Bayern won 3-0, our whole defense was injured. So you might doubt how relevant that is as well.
 

Pennywise

Member
Is this the "Klopp-Effect"?
I watched the last 6 performances of Dortmund and they were all rather bad. Your counter pressing doesnt work, because many teams have found a way to avoid it, still too many missed chances, defence is hilarious, defensive midfield is vulnerable etc. You downplay PSGs great performance against Neverkusen, but forget to mention that Zenit doesnt play at the moment, because the league hasnt even started in Russia. They managed to score 4 goals against you and you were basically out in the group stage with losses too.

And last year is history I'm afraid. The only real comparison with one of the top clubs this year ended with a 0-3 defeat for Dortmund. Its nothing personal Milch, but I admire Lewandwski for his honesty in his interview for stating the truth: "If we perform like this against the other 7 clubs, we are out and we should not always make it so easy and use the "injuries" as excuse for bad performances". Its pretty obvious that in this state, BVB and United are the weakest teams left in the tournament.

It's not just injuries, but they play the major role.
We lost Götze to Bayern and alot of other players because of injuries, I don't have to point out the importance of Kuba,Subotic and especially Gündogan ?
Sahin is still far away from his best performance, and our current squad can't given him the necessary freedom in order to shine.

New players like Miki and Auba need some time to get into the team and to live our playstyle.
Gündogan and Lewa for example took almost a year until they were fully integrated.
Our main problem this year is the attachment between defense,midfield and Lewa.
Auba is quite good as offensive player, but his defensive work is far from being good.
Just take a look how often Piszcek is alone against 1-2 other players, Sahin or Kehl are constantly forced to help out our right- or leftback, therefore it takes way to much time to get a counter on the way.
Another point is Miki, he's still not as good as we need him to be.
Every once in a while, he shows what he's capable of, but it's not happening that often.

Concentration is another point, we're loosing alot of balls lately because of lacking concetration.
That's heavily influenced by the injuries.Alot of the players can't get a break and even people who were one of the better players, like Großkreutz, are loosing alot more balls lately.

Our injuries also influence the constant changes, we can't rotate and mostly our players get a break when they're injured.
Hummels,Schmelzer for example had minor injuries compared to Subotic or Kuba, but they could never get to 100% because they we're always on the pitch once they were back.

And we could never get into a solid formation with the constant changes.
 

Jack cw

Member
And the comparison with Bayern is a hard one. Sure, last season Gündogan wasn't dead and Kuba + Subotic not injured. So you might doubt how relevant it still is. But when Bayern won 3-0, our whole defense was injured. So you might doubt how relevant that is as well.

Dont go there Milch ;)
Arsenal and Zenit are different leagues. Arsenal was the toughest runner up in group stage and they won against you too. We dominated them in both matches, which doesnt need to result in double digit scores but we would have won even without a goalie. There is a difference in how the teams perform. Dortmunds current shape isnt very good. You struggled against HSV, Freiburg, Gladbach, Zenit and Klopp is realistic when he says that Dortmund is the underdog in the quarter finals. The performances so far were rather inconsistent and you are one point in front of Schalke. The Bayern game was a classic case of outcoaching. Injuries are one thing, but we had that discussion a few days ago i believe, where your bench and Watzkes stubborness are to blame for this, because the replacements cant play the system of Klopp. On paper, Real, Barca, PSG, Athletico, Bayern and even Chelsea are stronger than Dortmund.
 

Salvadora

Member
How is Wenger's investigation going?

Seriously, these chronic injuries are beyond a simple issue anymore.
I'm not really sure how it will go considering he could be a part of the problem.

It always sounds like excuses, but this shit happens every season at Arsenal, without fail.
 

Jack cw

Member
It's not just injuries, but they play the major role.
We lost Götze to Bayern and alot of other players because of injuries, I don't have to point out the importance of Kuba,Subotic and especially Gündogan ?
Sahin is still far away from his best performance, and our current squad can't given him the necessary freedom in order to shine.

New players like Miki and Auba need some time to get into the team and to live our playstyle.
Gündogan and Lewa for example took almost a year until they were fully integrated.
Our main problem this year is the attachment between defense,midfield and Lewa.
Auba is quite good as offensive player, but his defensive work is far from being good.
Just take a look how often Piszcek is alone against 1-2 other players, Sahin or Kehl are constantly forced to help out our right- or leftback, therefore it takes way to much time to get a counter on the way.
Another point is Miki, he's still not as good as we need him to be.
Every once in a while, he shows what he's capable of, but it's not happening that often.

Concentration is another point, we're loosing alot of balls lately because of lacking concetration.
That's heavily influenced by the injuries.Alot of the players can't get a break and even people who were one of the better players, like Großkreutz, are loosing alot more balls lately.

Our injuries also influence the constant changes, we can't rotate and mostly our players get a break when they're injured.
Hummels,Schmelzer for example had minor injuries compared to Subotic or Kuba, but they could never get to 100% because they we're always on the pitch once they were back.

And we could never get into a solid formation with the constant changes.

This is a great and reasonable post. Injuries are of course the major reason for the teams performance but the consequence is the weak bench. As I said, Klopps system only works with the best 11, not with the rest and that is one of the reasons why Dortmund struggles so much. He isnt very flexible with his tactics and from what I have seen, they totally lack a plan b. I dont mind Henrik and Spiderman need time to get used to the club and Bundesliga, thats fine but all the reasons you stated and I back up led me to the conclusion that right now, Dortmund isnt up to the top of Europe.
 
Dont go there Milch ;)
Arsenal and Zenit are different leagues. Arsenal was the toughest runner up in group stage and they won against you too. We dominated them in both matches, which doesnt need to result in double digit scores but we would have won even without a goalie. There is a difference in how the teams perform. Dortmunds current shape isnt very good. You struggled against HSV, Freiburg, Gladbach, Zenit and Klopp is realistic when he says that Dortmund is the underdog in the quarter finals. The performances so far were rather inconsistent and you are one point in front of Schalke. The Bayern game was a classic case of outcoaching. Injuries are one thing, but we had that discussion a few days ago i believe, where your bench and Watzkes stubborness are to blame for this, because the replacements cant play the system of Klopp. On paper, Real, Barca, PSG, Athletico, Bayern and even Chelsea are stronger than Dortmund.

I still don't see that we struggled against Zenit. Sorry but that's just not true, we went through comfortably.

And yes, we had the discussion about our bench just a few days ago. And you should have kept in mind that our bench is obviously not as great when the planned bench (Sokratis, Sahin, Aubameyang, Großkreutz, Kehl) has to play every match because of injuries. And of course there's bigger gap between Reus and Hofmann than between Reus and Großkreutz/Aubameyang.
 
I still don't see that we struggled against Zenit. Sorry but that's just not true, we went through comfortably.

And yes, we had the discussion about our bench just a few days ago. And you should have kept in mind that our bench is obviously not as great when the planned bench has to play every match because of injuries. And of course there's bigger gap between Reus and Hofmann than between Reus and Großkreutz/Aubameyang.

Shouldn't Zenit have only scored 2 goals as well. I remember the ref was dodgy in the first leg.
 
Shouldn't Zenit have only scored 2 goals as well. I remember the ref was dodgy in the first leg.

I think you're right but I'm not completely sure anymore, it feels like so long ago :lol

Edit: yeah, right, I remember! First goal was offside and the penalty presented by Gazprom lol
 
A5SgSlg.jpg


doesn't work on a PS2, i just confirmed.
 

Pennywise

Member
This is a great and reasonable post. Injuries are of course the major reason for the teams performance but the consequence is the weak bench. As I said, Klopps system only works with the best 11, not with the rest and that is one of the reasons why Dortmund struggles so much. He isnt very flexible with his tactics and from what I have seen, they totally lack a plan b. I dont mind Henrik and Spiderman need time to get used to the club and Bundesliga, thats fine but all the reasons you stated and I back up led me to the conclusion that right now, Dortmund isnt up to the top of Europe.

That's true for now, but you know with Reus it would have been a different game.
Of course I would have loved if we kept Götze and Kagawa, just imagine a midfield Reus-Kagawa-Götze...
It's just not possible with our current financial situation, Dortmund still has alot of "altlasten" (contracts that were made in a different situation, so even if we earn alot of money, we are still far from being a competitor to Bayern or a team like PSG.
Besides, the transfers situation is different than it was 2 years ago.
Prices are going up for us now, I bet we would wouldn't have gotten someone like Lewa for 5,5m like we did back then.
Clubs know we are sucessful and it's taking it's toll...

Although I agree that they should have gotten 1-2 more players for our Squad, but you can't expect 3 injuries like that....
 

Elchele

Member
Jack what are you doing

Dortmund could trash us on this stage if they pull a good match. Don't you remember the SuperCup? Guardiola still hasn't got anything right in the CL.

Pep's Bayern vs Barcelona would be a nightmare to watch. Both teams fighting to have more possession... good Lord. I want Real Madrid or Manchester United.
 

Jack cw

Member
Although I agree that they should have gotten 1-2 more players for our Squad, but you can't expect 3 injuries like that....

I see. But as a Bayern supporter I suffered a long time when either Ribery or Roben or both were out for months and we had no proper replacement. There were times when both of them or Schweinsteiger injured, we were basically dead. Its not bad to have options and you dont need to buy world class players for any position but Dortmund clearly missed buying decent back ups. Anyway, I hope Dortmund makes it to the semis for presenting Bundesliga but if you not manage to draw United its going to be tough.
 

Elchele

Member
I see. But as a Bayern supporter I suffered a long time when either Ribery or Roben or both were out for months and we had no proper replacement. There were times when both of them or Schweinsteiger injured, we were basically dead. Its not bad to have options and you dont need to buy world class players for any position but Dortmund clearly missed buying decent back ups. Anyway, I hope Dortmund makes it to the semis for presenting Bundesliga but if you not manage to draw United its going to be tough.

I think they could kick Barcelona and Chelsea out too.

Just finished GZ. Amazing.

fixed.
 

Jack cw

Member
Jack what are you doing

Dortmund could trash us on this stage if they pull a good match. Don't you remember the SuperCup? Guardiola still hasn't got anything right in the CL.

Pep's Bayern vs Barcelona would be a nightmare to watch. Both teams fighting to have more possession... good Lord. I want Real Madrid or Manchester United.

Jupp pls.
Pre season matches shouldnt be the reference for CL ko games. SuperCup was a nice training match but the important game was the league match a few months ago and set the course for the league championship.

The same arguments were stated last year before Bayern - Barca. In the end Bayern played their blan b. I actually like it that Pep tries to find ways to deal with the opposition. We had one bad game and that was the irrelvant match against City. Similar to Heynckes 0-2 defeat against Arsenal last year.
 

Elchele

Member
The same arguments were stated last year before Bayern - Barca. In the end Bayern played their blan b. I actually like it that Pep tries to find ways to deal with the opposition. We had one bad game and that was the irrelvant match against City. Similar to Heynckes 0-2 defeat against Arsenal last year.

Pep isn't Heynckes. He doesn't has any plan b, he would go for more possession than Barcelona and you know it. He already did it in our friendly vs Barcelona this season.

One bad match? second leg City, first leg and second leg Arsenal. Three awful matches, and one after the other, it is pretty worrying.

I don't think he knows how to deal with a possession based rival
 

Pennywise

Member
I see. But as a Bayern supporter I suffered a long time when either Ribery or Roben or both were out for months and we had no proper replacement. There were times when both of them or Schweinsteiger injured, we were basically dead. Its not bad to have options and you dont need to buy world class players for any position but Dortmund clearly missed buying decent back ups. Anyway, I hope Dortmund makes it to the semis for presenting Bundesliga but if you not manage to draw United its going to be tough.

United could work though, if you saw their defense yesterday, think about Reus against Rio :p
Barca depending on our and their squad, and Chelsea could also work.
The rest only on a really good day.


Ribery and Robben, as much as I hate them, can't be replaced.
So I'll understood the outrage back then.

Well, I'll hope we finally hear something from Gündogan..
 

Jack cw

Member
Pep isn't Heynckes. He doesn't has any plan b, he would go for more possession than Barcelona and you know it. He already did it in our friendly vs Barcelona this season.

One bad match? second leg City, first leg and second leg Arsenal. Three awful matches, and one after the other, it is pretty worrying.

I don't think he knows how to deal with a possession based rival

I like your black and white view of things, but its not that easy ;)
Remember the bad first leg against Dortmund in the final last year? Or the complete rematch against Arsenal or Nueremberg? Pep knows his shit. He outcoached Klopp (something that Heynckes couldnt manage in 2 years), Wenger. Pellegrini in the first match. We have struggled last year too and were lucky in many matches by scoring an early 1-0. We had many strong oppositions this year and managed to hold very well against them WITH Pep reacting and switching tactics. Remember Wolfsburg, Arsenal, BVB, Stuttgart for example.
 

Jack cw

Member
Well, I'll hope we finally hear something from Gündogan..

Well, he said that WC is impossible for him, so that might implies that this season is done too. I hope for him that the medical staff somehow fix him but it doesnt look good.
All this Bundesliga talk, you're all going off topic.

Can we get back to Moyes?

Haha, I was waiting for this. I'm surprised it took so long.
 
United could work though, if you saw their defense yesterday, think about Reus against Rio :p
Barca depending on our and their squad, and Chelsea could also work.
The rest only on a really good day.


Ribery and Robben, as much as I hate them, can't be replaced.
So I'll understood the outrage back then.

Well, I'll hope we finally hear something from Gündogan..
Next time you hear from Gundogod he'll be joining the all conquering heroes.
 

Elchele

Member
I like your black and white view of things, but its not that easy ;)
Remember the bad first leg against Dortmund in the final last year? Or the complete rematch against Arsenal or Nueremburg? Pep knows his shit. He outcoached Klopp (something that Heynckes couldnt manage in 2 years), Wenger. Pellegrini in the first match. We have struggled last year too and were lucky in many matches by scoring an early 1-0. We had many strong oppositions this year and managed to hold very well against them WITH Pep reacting and switching tactics. Remember Wolfsburg, Arsenal, BVB, Stuttgart for example.

I don't see how Pep outcoached Klopp or Wenger. Klopp with full squad destroyed Pep's Bayern 5-3 or something like that. Of course we won in the league because they had the whole back line + Gundogan injured. Hardly that counts as a real win against Klopp.

Outcoached Wenger? I would think the exact opposite. In the first match Pep started with the old 4-1-4-1 and had the first 20 minutes the Arsenal players overrunning our non-existent holding midfield. He had to change the formation and players during the match to a 4-2-3-1 we have been using in the second half of the Bundesliga.

And then in the second leg he at least played a 4-2-3-1 but with Lahm again as RB, and I'm sorry to say but Arsenal had a much better chance to win that match than us. Pep doesn't know how to neutralize Wenger's team.

I do agree with Pep changing the tactics, but Heynckes always got the tactics right in the first place (except vs BATE, lol). We went against Juve and Barcelona without conceding a fucking goal, and destroying both teams, the champions of Italy and Spain.

Pep still has a lot to learn, and I'm afraid he will continue to fuck the tactics for CL for some random reason of not trusting Rafinha a starting place in CL.

#fuckpepandgotze
 

Wilbur

Banned
Wow. If you believe this morning's papers, Sky Sports News and TV/radio coverage, then Man Utd's ability to beat a third-rate bunch of Greek no-hopers, at Old Trafford, suddenly means that Moyes is safe and Utd's season has turned around. Moyes is also saying they will be a match for anyone in the quarter finals.

How do Man Utd fans here view things following last night's one-off result?

Same as I did beforehand. No change. I just get to enjoy two more European ties for the last time for a decade now.
 
Chelsea are working on a deal to sign the next big talent from Southampton’s highly-rated academy system – teenage striker Sam Gallagher.

The 18-year-old, who is still largely unknown, has been slowly dipped into the Saints first-team this season, but he set tongues wagging with his first Premier League goal against Norwich at the weekend.

Mauricio Pochettino is keen to keep the 6’4” striker under the radar, but Chelsea scouts are already on to him, and want to sign him at the end of the season.

Southampton have produced stars such as Theo Walcott, Gareth Bale, Adam, Lallana and Luke Shaw from their famed youth setup in recent years, and many believe Gallagher could be the next big thing to emerge.


lol

pls

This seems strange with Bamford doing well on loan why we would go for another young striker. I do hope we get Shaw in the summer though :D
 

Elchele

Member
Btw, in my FIFA career mode, there's this kid in Newcastle, Adam Campbell. He basically becomes a pseudo-Messi in the game

what's up with that
 
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