Willkiller
Banned
Ah, the mythical Dalglish superfan, or 'SuperCunt' as I like to call them.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Football Thread 13/14 |OT18| Coming Early by L. Piscium
- Thread starter Lambda Pie
- Start date
- Status
Ah, the mythical Dalglish superfan, or 'SuperCunt' as I like to call them.
KidA is an Adnan fan first, United fan second.
Maybe in England that's counter attacking football m8, but the counter-attacking football I know of is what Dortmund, Atlético, RM (under Mou) play.
What Moyes played is a desperate man "tactic" to park the bus and send a long ball to a quick attacker upfront. As I said, it is completely valid but it makes the whole thing about criticizing Guardiola's tactics ridiculous.
Klopp critized Pep's Barcelona a few months ago, and I agree with what he says. But mainly because he does play a much more attractive kind of football, that is as successful as what Guardiola does in a boring way.
I agree that we were worse to watch than you. However, that's as a reaction to the way you play. And with the caveat that I don't come up with fucking nonsense like "only one team came to play football".
And I think you're forgetting the Welbeck disallowed goal, the Welbeck chance, the Vidic goal, the Kagawa shot, the two Rooney chances, the Evra goal.
The implication that all we did was sit back and do absolutely nothing when instead, what we did was be completely aware of our limitations in comparison to Bayern (a team far better than last year's Barcelona) and try to hit them on the counter because they were playing two defenders.
We sat back because that was the best way of getting chances against you. Let you tap it around the box, and then break fast when you slip up. It's tactics, not fucking anti-football or parking the bus.
Christ I actually hate Pep for what he's done to football, he's created a breed of fucking twaddle-spouting whelks who use the words anti-football.
So insecure lol.
Sophie's Choice is a fucking dire novel. Do one L1NETT.
The real analogy for contemporary United-bro experience is in that phenomenon Anthony Burgess discussed in young Malay men: a sudden, spasmodic terror that their penis was retracting (never to be seen again) into their body. Apparently, stabbing something through the shaft to fix it to the inside thigh was the preventative measure that came to mind.
That's where we are, psychologically.
The real analogy for contemporary United-bro experience is in that phenomenon Anthony Burgess discussed in young Malay men: a sudden, spasmodic terror that their penis was retracting (never to be seen again) into their body. Apparently, stabbing something through the shaft to fix it to the inside thigh was the preventative measure that came to mind.
That's where we are, psychologically.
It's bullshit to say that parking the bus is the reaction to tiki-taka. We have played to all the teams in Bundesliga, who are much more limited in squad quality than Manchester United, and most of them have got similar results (other ones better results) to what Manchester United achieved, and they did it without having to park the bus against Bayern.
The best way to play against a possession based side is how Dortmund does it, how Atlético does it, and how Salzburg does it. Parking the bus is what I would expect from a team in a third world country like Honduras to do against a big team, not from a top team in Europe.
I agree with most of what you say about Guardiola, I just don't think they have a "higher moral ground" to start talking shit about Pep's tactics while trying to make look "ok" what Moyes did.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
bud lives in Rotterdam
Buying RVP effectively curtailed Welbeck's development as a striker. Two seasons ago he was a competent striker with the potential to become really good. As at that point in time, he was seen as a better striker than Sturridge. Last season he transitioned into a faux winger/specialist high-up-the-field presser. That being a season where he could have really developed into something special. And that has continued for the some part of this season. Calling him 'good' in that role is akin to calling Jones a proper DM. They can do a particularly precise job, and do it well, but that simply takes away what little time they can use in developing in their proper role.
Welbeck needs more playing time as a striker, a lot more than he gets currently, but he is not going to get it as he has better strikers in front of him.
Welbeck needs more playing time as a striker, a lot more than he gets currently, but he is not going to get it as he has better strikers in front of him.
I think you should stop using the words parking the bus as a way of saying "sitting back and trying to deny space to the opposition" first of all.
I'm not denying our tactics couldn't have been better last night. I'd love us to press like Dortmund and Atletico do. The difference with Dortmund is that they'll keep everyone behind the ball while pressing, right? They've got a much better tactical set up, a much better coach, and when they win the ball they have the speed in the counter attack.
The difference here is pressing. They still might be "parking the bus", i.e. keeping players behind the ball, keeping narrow and tight when not in possession of the ball. The single difference between "parking the bus" and "playing like Dortmund and Atletico" seems to be relentless harrying out of possession. And I'd argue that, yes despite that being a more attractive and superior way of going to play against Bayern, it's certainly not leagues ahead in terms of viability.
Steverulez
Member
KidA Seven
Member
It was really bad. United usually play like shit in pre season, but the pre season under Moyes was a whole new level of shit.
You can call it whatever you want, but that's parking the bus. And again, it is a very valid way to play, but far from being any better than tiki-taka.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
I'm sure we can all agree on that hoofball is the way football is meant to be played.
KidA Seven
Member
Long Live Moyes.
Adnan's been at the club since 2011. I've enjoyed watching him progress through the u18s to the u21s to the first team. Why on earth would I want him to go to City and why wouldn't I be giddy over watching a youth player progress so much?
Jeff Albertson
Member
Well I just have no comeback to this one
We are pretty good at being pretty shit mind you
How many resurrections has the Kermdog had recently?
Can we still say cunt?
Augsburg 1 - 0 FC Bayern
32% possession
FC Bayern 3 - 3 Hoffenheim
33% possession
Bayer Leverkusen 1 - 1 FC Bayern
22% possession
Manchester United 1 - 3 FC Bayern
35% possession
Yeah you're right. Those Bundesliga teams who get the odd freak result really bring something to the table instead of just parking the bus, don't they.
Parking the bus didn't even exist as a phrase until around 2004, so as shorthand to describe defensive play I think it's fucking stupid.
Willkiller
Banned
Cunty bollocks is my new favourite.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Cunty bollocks is of a lovely vintage
I assume you only watched the Manchester United match at best.
FC Bayern 4 - 0 Barcelona
34% possession
KidA Seven
Member
Despite us having quality players our players can't keep possession for crap. That is why it was difficult for United to start attacks from the back after Bayern lost possession.
1. Moyes doesn't work on possession like Wenger, Martinez, etc...
2. Our midfield is really shit. Everyone knows this.
3. Look at who United had on the field. Shinji and Welbeck are the only ones capable of keeping possession. Carrick has always folded under the type of pressing Pep instills in his team. Jones was playing at rb over Rafael. Smalling and Vidic aren't known for their ball skills (relative to other cbs) compared to Rio or Evans. Rooney has the touch of a rapist too.
United do have quality players, but the team that was out there has no way of coping under pressure. RVP wasn't playing. Mata wasn't playing. Nani wasn't playing. The list goes on.
Just compare Bayern's midfield compared to United's. You guys were also used to playing possession football while United's team isn't used to it. You guys had the more dangerous wingers.
1. Moyes doesn't work on possession like Wenger, Martinez, etc...
2. Our midfield is really shit. Everyone knows this.
3. Look at who United had on the field. Shinji and Welbeck are the only ones capable of keeping possession. Carrick has always folded under the type of pressing Pep instills in his team. Jones was playing at rb over Rafael. Smalling and Vidic aren't known for their ball skills (relative to other cbs) compared to Rio or Evans. Rooney has the touch of a rapist too.
United do have quality players, but the team that was out there has no way of coping under pressure. RVP wasn't playing. Mata wasn't playing. Nani wasn't playing. The list goes on.
Just compare Bayern's midfield compared to United's. You guys were also used to playing possession football while United's team isn't used to it. You guys had the more dangerous wingers.
Taking your chances really helps.
Spot on. We have a team full of bottlers.
Most crumble under pressure, even the more experienced players. It's as if they're in awe of the opposition at all times. And with Moyes as the manager the players feel undermined and weaker.
KidA Seven
Member
My sides. This guy killed his neighbor for calling him donald duck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55P-MAiPkJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55P-MAiPkJ0
I was just turning down the point Odd tried to make about low possession = parking the bus. As you may now, the % of possession is based on passes made, not on the actual possession one team has over the other. Most of Barcelona and Bayern's possession comes from making a shit ton of useless passes.
You don't need to park the bus to get good results against Bayern/Barcelona. You have to play smartly and focused. You have to pressure them, defend with a lot of focus to cut passes, etc. Very small teams in the Bundesliga achieved more against Bayern doing that, than what Man Utd achieved by parking the bus.
My point is: Parking the bus was a choice made by Moyes, not a consequence of tiki-taka.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Willkiller
Banned
I'm a terrible person, I'm watching this doc about the dangers of porn and all I can think about is how much I'd love to fuck the presenter.
Willkiller
Banned
I'll be getting a Wii U as a finishing 1st year present.
....
And also for Mario Kart.
....
And also for Mario Kart.
Sato Koiji
Member
Ridiculous. RIDICUAAAAAAAAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHHAA!!!
Pato Donald! PORRA! LOL!
PS4 final year present.
Will wait till after E3. Want a white one if they announce new colors.
Broder Salsa
Banned
I wish I got present for finishing shit.
Then I might actually finish stuff.
Then I might actually finish stuff.
Willkiller
Banned
At this point I'd rather have a Wii U on my shelf over my PS4, at least I'd hve something to play that wasn't fucking FIFA
Edit: Let me clarify, It'll be self-bought present haha!
KidA Seven
Member
United could have done better if Rooney hadn't fucked up. I don't see how you're not getting that. There is no way the team he put out there can play any other way against Bayern as I have already explained. Our midfield is shit. Our manager doesn't work on ball skills. Our technical players were missing.
If Moyes had instructed them to try and play a possession style match or told them to press it wouldn't have worked. It would have looked the same as the past 2 matches. The team has no foundation to start playing that way suddenly.
United have never been packed in their own half against any other team this season. Not against City, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. because those teams don't take possession to the extreme like Pep. The team didn't just boot the ball just because Moyes instructed them to park the bus. They just aren't comfortable in small tight spaces like other teams.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked