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Football Thread 2012/13 |OT| The Beautiful Game
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Vivalaraza
Member
Let me get this right.
Conte knew match fixing was taking place but didn't report it?
Is that the accusation? I don't mean to sound dense here but if it's definitely not true then why even accept the plea bargain. I know Italian courts don't seem to good or fair at dealing with this stuff but why would he face a years ban?
To me accepting a plea bargain sounds like you accept you did something wrong.
Conte knew match fixing was taking place but didn't report it?
Is that the accusation? I don't mean to sound dense here but if it's definitely not true then why even accept the plea bargain. I know Italian courts don't seem to good or fair at dealing with this stuff but why would he face a years ban?
To me accepting a plea bargain sounds like you accept you did something wrong.
fadetoblack
Member
This has nothing to do with the 2006 scandal. That was calciopoli. What Juve, Milan, Fiorentina, Reggina, and Lazio were accused of was referee influencing.
This is calcioscommesse. There are more individuals here being accused and I think like thre teams mostly in Serie B. The main people accused are Antonio Conte, Simone Pepe, Leonardo Bonucci, Sergio Pelissier, Domenico Crescito, Atalanta's Cristiano Doni, Andrea Masiello... and anyways a bunch of others. Christian Vieri as well, actually. What they are being accused of varies from match fixing (Masiello) to not reporting match fixing (Conte, Bonucci).
Basically, Pepe and Conte is accused of knowing about an attempt to fix a match without reporting it. Pepe for when he was at Udinese in their match versus Bari, Conte for matches between Siena and Novara, and Siena and AlbinoLeffe, and Bonucci who was playing for Bari in the game Pepe played in (Udinese v. Bari) is being accused of sporting fraud (i.e. match fixing). Bonucci faces the harshest ban at 3 years max, but he's also been the most staunch about his innocence. He has never even considered a plea bargain. He always wanted to prove his innocence, which is honourable if potentially stupid if he fails.
It's rough shit. But what's key to note, in the first place from my perspective, is that Juventus isn't involved. Juventus is not being accused of anything. There were only three or so matches in question, and it looks like the punishments are mostly being doled out for people who didn't do anything about it. This is not as "big" as 2006 and only individuals are in any real danger except Torino and Varese who have each received a 1 point deduction.
It's complicated and conflicted. Frankly, it's also a circus.
fadetoblack
Member
Article 23 of Italian sporting courts legal code says that a plea bargain does not come with an admission of guilt. It's necessary in a system where the accused party has to prove his innocence, since it's such a high stake game.
And yes, Conte is being charged with knowing about match fixing and not reporting it. That's all.
Reports in Italy suggest that Conte's fine in the plea was too low and that's why it was rejected. He agreed to 200k.
Siena was charged with the exact same thing and tried to plea a 5 point deduction and a 40k fine. It was also rejected.
And yes, Conte is being charged with knowing about match fixing and not reporting it. That's all.
Reports in Italy suggest that Conte's fine in the plea was too low and that's why it was rejected. He agreed to 200k.
Siena was charged with the exact same thing and tried to plea a 5 point deduction and a 40k fine. It was also rejected.
fadetoblack
Member
If his defence team fails to prove his complete innocence in the eyes of the disciplinary judges, yes. I ask you, how do you prove complete innocence?
Juventus lawyers who are defending Conte have just demanded of the judges recuse themselves, claiming they are not impartial. God damn. At least we're not taking this one lying down, but shit is about to get REALLY complicated.
Juventus lawyers who are defending Conte have just demanded of the judges recuse themselves, claiming they are not impartial. God damn. At least we're not taking this one lying down, but shit is about to get REALLY complicated.
Vivalaraza
Member
I think knowing about match fixing and not reporting it is a pretty bad thing to do.
No idea if it's true or not, just I don't think it's a minor accusation by any means. Maybe that's because we haven't had any high profile cases here whereas in Italy there have been cases with more clear and widespread accusations.
Italy lol
No idea if it's true or not, just I don't think it's a minor accusation by any means. Maybe that's because we haven't had any high profile cases here whereas in Italy there have been cases with more clear and widespread accusations.
So it's guilty until proven innocent?
Italy lol
fadetoblack
Member
Hard to know exactly what happened. Everyone is still real cagey. It's pre-trial, remember.
Do I think not reporting is a bad thing to do, yes, but it's also an understandable thing to do. To report these type of things puts your team and all your work in jeopardy. And the punishment for it is disproportional to being actively involved. Players who were dead in the middle of the whole thing got 24 month bans whereas not reporting it seems to carry a punishment of 12months. You get put in an impossible situation the minute somebody else gets you involved whether you want to or not. I think the punishment for reporting needs to better reflect the situation. 3-6 months and a hefty fine is perfectly reasonable.
Edit: Yep, guilty until proven innocent. Although not strictly a Italy lol thing. The UK has it as well for defamation cases where the burden of proof is on the defence. I've always thought it was weird for something to go all the way to trial and you being forced to prove that something didn't happen... it feels impossible in a lot of case.
Do I think not reporting is a bad thing to do, yes, but it's also an understandable thing to do. To report these type of things puts your team and all your work in jeopardy. And the punishment for it is disproportional to being actively involved. Players who were dead in the middle of the whole thing got 24 month bans whereas not reporting it seems to carry a punishment of 12months. You get put in an impossible situation the minute somebody else gets you involved whether you want to or not. I think the punishment for reporting needs to better reflect the situation. 3-6 months and a hefty fine is perfectly reasonable.
Edit: Yep, guilty until proven innocent. Although not strictly a Italy lol thing. The UK has it as well for defamation cases where the burden of proof is on the defence. I've always thought it was weird for something to go all the way to trial and you being forced to prove that something didn't happen... it feels impossible in a lot of case.
Vivalaraza
Member
Juve GAF - I've just seen a tweet which says the fine is the problem.
This is exactly why I will never support any Italian team in the CL or bother watching their games in Serie A. Let's move to France ffs 
Keep in mind that IF he knew something was going on, reporting it would trigger another scandal and condemn his team with him. Grey area.
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Want a case of "Italy lol" ? Carobbio (whose testimony is the ONLY evidence against Conte) can take a plea bargain. Conte can't.
Keep in mind that IF he knew something was going on, reporting it would trigger another scandal and condemn his team with him. Grey area.
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Want a case of "Italy lol" ? Carobbio (whose testimony is the ONLY evidence against Conte) can take a plea bargain. Conte can't.
Freewheelin'
Member
Why do you think he's not in the first team? Surely he's better than Adam Spearing etc?
This is exactly why I will never support any Italian team in the CL or bother watching their games in Serie A. Let's move to France ffs
You do know Juventus qualified this year, right?
fadetoblack
Member
It's all conflicted. Some tweets claim its the fine, others the ban. I'm hoping it's the fine, obviously. Juve will probably pay Conte's fines regardless of the outcome, and we can afford to defend him to the hilt.
We're currently stacked in central midfield. Gerrard, Lucas, henderson, Aquilani, Shelvey, Adam and Spearing. I'm not saying all these players are good, but we'd need to sell at least 2-3 guys for Suso to get a chance of first team football. If we get Dempsey and Allen, it will be even more dificult.
fadetoblack
Member
Also, Yurt, we did move to France. It's called PSG. The team is almost all ex-Serie A.
Obviously I'm going to support my team, Melo.
Also, Yurt, we did move to France. It's called PSG. The team is almost all ex-Serie A.
Ligue 1 is wishing PSG was in the Serie A instead right now.
NextGen Series. We're desperate for a trophy.
I don't think it's as simple as that. What would we do with the likes of Spearing and Adam, I don't think anybody will really want the former, and I still think the latter's got a lot to give. I don't mind him biding his time and playing Academy games, but there's no excuse for not letting him train with the first team, considering the likes of Sterling and Morgan are. He's as good as they are(if not better, in my opinion).
I've got no doubts that he'll be there eventually, and he's looking for a house in Liverpool so I'm convinced him and the club are working on a new contract. I honestly think we should send him on loan, like we did with Shelvey, to get him first team minutes. Again, a season at Swansea would do him the world of good, although I don't know how much he'd actually play.
Vivalaraza
Member
Have the likes of Sterling and Morgan been moved up?
That's not so stacked tbh. It's 6 players when you consider Aquilani is all but done. Training with the first team would make a big difference and I think players like Suso and Sterling should now be getting some PL minutes here and there.
I was disappointed Pogba didn't get many chances last season, though he did get a few carling cup starts and 20 odd PL minutes 2/3 times. Seems to me like Suso should get at least that this coming season.
LanceVance
Member
Is it safe to say Cazorla will be going to Arsenal, and RvP will be going to Juventus?
I don't think Arsenal will miss RvP that much at all, but you can't know how quick they'll adapt without him. Like it or not, he was the captain that carried that team A LOT.
Champions League is really promising this year, all teams in it are already strong but are getting stronger by the minute. And that's with teams like Madrid and City holding out on their checkbooks.
I don't think Arsenal will miss RvP that much at all, but you can't know how quick they'll adapt without him. Like it or not, he was the captain that carried that team A LOT.
Champions League is really promising this year, all teams in it are already strong but are getting stronger by the minute. And that's with teams like Madrid and City holding out on their checkbooks.
Holy shit.
Now I'm going to youtube more wrestling celebrations. One that comes to mind is Harper's Elbow Drop on Tiote when he scored the 4-4 goal against Arsenal.
Id like him to play, but most of all I'd like to see him loaned out for one season. He'll get first team experience that would be great for him. Him not training with the first team, I do not understand. He's clearly good enough for that. If they don't loan him out, playing in the cups would be a good option. LC, FAC and EL, that means that he'll probably get his chance sooner or later. I'm trying not be koptimistic and fear the worst for Suso, but it was good to read that he at least he's lookintg for a house in Liverpool. I doubt we'll see him playing in the league this season. You're right that Aquilani is on his way, so that makes it 6 players. But I think those 6 players plus Dempsey and Allen (if we buy them) would make it hard for Suso to break into the first team. If we sell Spearing and maybe do an exchange deal Adam<>Dempsey, then maybe he'll get some time.
I can understand why Morgan and Sterling are with the first team. it's not because they are better than Suso, it's because we don't have enough quality players in those positions.
Downing - winger
Cole - winger (not mentioned on the official site, lol)
Bellamy - winger/striker
Suarez winger/striker
Carroll - striker
Borini - winger striker
I don't know if Cole and Bellamy will still be Liverpool players by the end of the transfer window.
FIGC has rejected the plea bargain, despite the FIGC Chief lawyer recommending it.
Conte guilty for not reporting 23 declared innocent players.
Only in Italy.
Vivalaraza
Member
It would seem that Sterling and Morgan are the only two young players to travel t Belarus for tomorrow's game vs Gomel. I'm basing this on the fact there was a reserve game today, with Suso, Sama, Wisdom etc.
Sterling, yes, Morgan has but it could be only temporary as we need striking cover for Gomel and Leverkusen as we sort out our attacking options. I'd expect them to keep training with the first team though, and I'd expect Suso to move up soon. Hopefully. I'm sure he'll talk about that when discussing his new contract.
:lol
I think you mean Neymar. It's a genuine pleasure to watch him style, been the best part of the Olympics for me. Obviously I'd heard how good he was, but this is the first time I saw it with my own eyes.
Some really nice touches so far. I wish.
Vivalaraza
Member
Neymar doesn't pass to Moura. If he did Moura would outshine him. Moura should stop passing to Neymar in response.
Apparently he told reporters his dad and agent are talking to United and that he's very excited to be linked with them. He'll make his decision after the Olympics.
The_Hitcher89
Member
We should try and get Suso a loan move to Brighton or someone
Pushing a young player too early is a risk, sometimes one you have to take, but I'm sure if Suso is patient he'll get his chance and shine.
About Neymar, I don't think anyone can actually afford him, so he'll have to stay in Brazil for awhile... There's those rumours that he's a "done deal" to Barca though.
About Neymar, I don't think anyone can actually afford him, so he'll have to stay in Brazil for awhile... There's those rumours that he's a "done deal" to Barca though.
Could someone link me to this interview, I haven't seen it but I've heard it referenced numerous times. I know Borrell moved Suso from an attacking, wide midfielder into the centre to get him to work on his defensive game, which he has done.
To be honest, I imagine the relationship between Borrell and Suso is really strong, so if Borrell doesn't think he's ready then who are we to argue. Especially when Rodgers has so much knowledge and experience in this area; if Rodgers doesn't believe it's time to promote him, it most likely isn't.
That's a really good shout with the sort of football Poyet tries to play.
MarshMellow96
Member
I wonder if Suso follows Wilshere on Twitter...
Awesome Animals
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