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Football Thread 2012/13 |OT2| @agent_89: My sources tell me the season has started

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E

ElyrionX

Member
I saw someone post earlier that Scholes should retire and I absolutely agree. We don't gain anything at all by fielding a 38yo in the heart of our midfield especially if he's going to turn in performances like last night. He doesn't have the pace or the stamina anymore. Might as well let Anderson have his run and see what he can do.

Also if Scholes hadn't been brought back last season and Pogba was given his chance, he might even still be playing for us now.
 
M

Mumei

Member
Willkiller said:
It's really awesome how much you're trying to get into football. Good on you man!
Click to expand...

I like it already. I have never really enjoyed team sports before but I had thought for awhile this might be something I'd like. It takes away the things I dislike about (American) football; too much standing around doing nothing, and the action taking place in short bursts with constant breaks in between. It also takes away the biggest problem I have with basketball, which is mostly that there's so many points scored that I just stop giving a shit. And replaces it with near constant movement and action and goals that are infrequent enough and hard won enough to be exciting when they happen. I also feel sort of like something inherent about the sport that forces a level of teamwork that is more "visible" to a casual observer like myself (where I'm sure just as much is going on in the two sports I just mentioned, but it isn't visible to me), whereas in this I feel like I can appreciate it more.

And like I said, I had thought for awhile I might like it. I just hadn't gotten up the motivation to ask where to get started before.

Wessiej said:
Only 2 months till you will find a team to support and then you will hate everyone else and call the referee a c**t, it's a natural process <3
Click to expand...

Hahahaha
 
F

Fry

Member
Late but better than never! Bayern's goals from todays game:

i689ySunf7e6n.gif


ibzkTIVvyNmhai.gif


iJaSnS3XyFWsJ.gif


irhwL7kb6v0Nk.gif


ivLQTL0XmpG7D.gif
 
A

Awesome Animals

Member
Mumei, I saw that you have Aston Villa at West Ham United set to record. As a Villa fan, let me warn you that that game is not an example of a good game. Ugly on both sides, with a confusing goal, and a team that parks the bus in front of goal as soon as they scored (it didn't help that Villa is creatively bankrupt in the final third). You could youtube U17 games that will make you love the game more than the Villa game from Saturday.

With that said, you should support Aston Villa. We won Europe
before I was born
!!!
 
L

LegoArmo

Member
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
Fell asleep at the end of the Everton - United game. Seems like I didn't miss much. Some observations:

  • How good is Fellaini? I'll come back to this.
  • Rooney looks in poor form and perhaps even somewhat unfit. He tried to force the issue, stepping on Kagawa's toes and coming too deep once too often, forgetting his duty to stretch Everton's back-line. RVP has to start upfront against Fulham, surely. Nani - on the other hand - had a total shocker. I can't believe I was actually hoping for Young, or anyone really, to come on and replace him.
  • United has to build the team around Kagawa. Most everything good came about because of him.
  • But United also needs to sort out its inchorence; that is, one set of players is playing one way (distribute wide, cautious probing, play it to Scholes) and another set seem frustrated that quick, short balls aren't being released to their intelligent runs (Shinji, Cleverley, RVP when he came on, even Welbeck) through the center of the pitch. I don't think it's a lack of technical ability or vision, it's simply a clash of styles, habit and confidence. Fergie needs to get these players on the same wavelength and producing more fluid play. I have faith it will come in time and I know which system I'd prefer - see: previous point.
  • I love Scholes but this wasn't the game for him. Everton's pressing was outstanding. I thought playing a three would be enough but I was wrong. Our inability to cover for his static presence contributed to quite exploitable flaws in the midfield battle. While Vidic was shutting down Jelavic, Fellaini was winning the ball off the striker with impunity - how many times did he get himself into space as Everton went into our half? Sacrilege to say it, but Anderson should have started instead.
  • Everton absolutely deserved their win. Organised brilliantly, unafraid to press and some rollicking play on the counter.
  • The universe doesn't want Cleverley to score.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
ElyrionX said:
I saw someone post earlier that Scholes should retire and I absolutely agree. We don't gain anything at all by fielding a 38yo in the heart of our midfield especially if he's going to turn in performances like last night. He doesn't have the pace or the stamina anymore. Might as well let Anderson have his run and see what he can do.

Also if Scholes hadn't been brought back last season and Pogba was given his chance, he might even still be playing for us now.
Click to expand...

Maybe. But without Scholes, would we have come that close to winning the title? Don't disagree with the underlying point: he's a liability in high intensity games where the opposition can press with a midfield three. A fair percentage of PL teams don't play that way though. He's a good option to have against most of them.

We're agreed on Anderson too, it's time we either play him or move him on.
 
E

elsk

Banned
Tim the Wiz said:
Maybe. But without Scholes, would we have come that close to winning the title? Don't disagree with the underlying point: he's a liability in high intensity games where the opposition can press with a midfield three. A fair percentage of PL teams don't play that way though. He's a good option to have against most of them.

We're agreed on Anderson too, it's time we either play him or move him on.
Click to expand...

You ended up losing the league anyways, so playing Pogba would've been more rewarding. Fergie is stuck in the past, he should drop Giggs and Scholes already. Or at least Giggs.
 
L

LegoArmo

Member
Scholes can still play but only if he has an energetic defensive midfielder next to him. Ferguson just doesn't seem to want to play that way though, so Scholes should remain an option off the bench for when we just want to keep possession (97% pass accuracy last night).
 
E

elsk

Banned
LegoArmo said:
Scholes can still play but only if he has an energetic defensive midfielder next to him. Ferguson just doesn't seem to want to play that way though, so Scholes should remain an option off the bench for when we just want to keep possession (97% pass accuracy last night).
Click to expand...

He surely can play, but he shouldn't be played ahead of young midfielders.

De Gea
Rafael - Vidic - any CB - Evra/Dutchguy
Carrick - Clev
Valencia - Kagawa - Nani
Rooney/RvP/Welbeck

Buying RvP was a stupid call.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
elsk said:
You ended up losing the league anyways, so playing Pogba would've been more rewarding. Fergie is stuck in the past, he should drop Giggs and Scholes already. Or at least Giggs.
Click to expand...

This is false equivalence. Fergie even played Rafael and Park, a defender and a winger, ahead of Pogba in midfield. If Fergie wanted to give Pogba a proper chance in the PL, he could have, with or without the presence of Scholes or Giggs. The latter is a red herring in particular: Giggs barely starts any games in the league these days so I have no idea why you're so pedantic about him.
 
E

elsk

Banned
Tim the Wiz said:
This is false equivalence. Fergie even played Rafael and Park, a defender and a winger, ahead of Pogba in midfield. If Fergie wanted to give Pogba a proper chance in the PL, he could have, with or without the presence of Scholes or Giggs. The latter is a red herring in particular: Giggs barely starts any games in the league these days so I have no idea why you're so pedantic about him.
Click to expand...

My point is Fergie making stupid decisions. Like the lineup he used today or buying RvP when the striker department was the best covered already.

Even Heynckes looks like a good coach next to him.
 
G

G17

Member
Lightning said:
I can't understand why Arsenal fans can't let it go. Why the prolonged obsession abuse? He is just not that important.
Click to expand...

Not really sure. I guess since millions of Arsenal fans are on twitter, you are bound to get messages like those from the minority. Either way, I thought it was a neat insight into what Adebayor thinks and his claim about why he left Arsenal.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
elsk said:
My point is Fergie making stupid decisions. Like the lineup he used today or buying RvP when the striker department was the only best covered already.
Click to expand...

Won't disagree on the tactical side. That's never been his strong suit. Starting Scholes was a mistake.

You're wrong about RVP though. United have a fantastic assortment of forwards to play unfixed, flowing football. Unfortunately, they can't actually play that way together yet. The style displayed last night was as rigid as your thinking.
 
E

elsk

Banned
Tim the Wiz said:
Won't disagree on the tactical side. That's never been his strong suit. Starting Scholes was a mistake.

You're wrong about RVP though. United have a fantastic assortment of forwards to play unfixed, flowing football. Unfortunately, they can't actually play that way together yet. The style displayed last night was as rigid as your thinking.
Click to expand...

Buying RvP would've made sense without Kagawa. But with Kagawa on the squad, and playing him in his natural position, makes it almost impossible to play with more than 1 striker.

You basically can't play Rooney, Kagawa and RvP all at the same time unless you put one of them in the wing.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
elsk said:
Buying RvP would've made sense without Kagawa. But with Kagawa on the squad, and playing him in his natural position, makes it almost impossible to play with more than 1 striker.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Rigid. Shake reflected my thoughts on this perfectly the other day:

Shake Appeal said:
All the lineups I'm reading are predicated on the idea that Ferguson 'always' plays either a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1, but in reality he's proven far more flexible than that over the years, and arguably his finest hour, at least in this decade, was a fluid sort of 4-3-3 in which Rooney, Ronaldo, and Tevez were given loose reins: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/20/teams-of-the-decade-3-manchester-united-2006-09/
Click to expand...

Rooney, Kagawa and Nani are all technical, quality players when in form and they should get to a stage where they're interchanging well behind RVP (or Welbeck), who can drop deeper or wider too. Don't forget the need for depth considering our history with injuries and I think you're looking at a three-dimensional situation from a two-dimensional perspective.

elsk said:
You basically can't play Rooney, Kagawa and RvP all at the same time unless you put one of them in the wing.
Click to expand...

On the wing but drifting in. You saw Welbeck get two runs in on goal from Kagawa's service, even in that stop-start tactical display. Positioning is about constructing the best team possible, not the other way around. I don't view this positional crisis you've seized upon as the thing that will bring United's season unstuck, that's left to our passing game - our static fragility in midfield and in-cohesive play - and the never-ceasing spell of defensive injuries; hopefully that will all improve with time as the team gels together.
 
S

Soi-Fong

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
Fell asleep at the end of the Everton - United game. Seems like I didn't miss much. Some observations:

  • How good is Fellaini? I'll come back to this.
  • Rooney looks in poor form and perhaps even somewhat unfit. He tried to force the issue, stepping on Kagawa's toes and coming too deep once too often, forgetting his duty to stretch Everton's back-line. RVP has to start upfront against Fulham, surely. Nani - on the other hand - had a total shocker. I can't believe I was actually hoping for Young, or anyone really, to come on and replace him.
  • United has to build the team around Kagawa. Most everything good came about because of him.
  • But United also needs to sort out its inchorence; that is, one set of players is playing one way (distribute wide, cautious probing, play it to Scholes) and another set seem frustrated that quick, short balls aren't being released to their intelligent runs (Shinji, Cleverley, RVP when he came on, even Welbeck) through the center of the pitch. I don't think it's a lack of technical ability or vision, it's simply a clash of styles, habit and confidence. Fergie needs to get these players on the same wavelength and producing more fluid play. I have faith it will come in time and I know which system I'd prefer - see: previous point.
  • I love Scholes but this wasn't the game for him. Everton's pressing was outstanding. I thought playing a three would be enough but I was wrong. Our inability to cover for his static presence contributed to quite exploitable flaws in the midfield battle. While Vidic was shutting down Jelavic, Fellaini was winning the ball off the striker with impunity - how many times did he get himself into space as Everton went into our half? Sacrilege to say it, but Anderson should have started instead.
  • Everton absolutely deserved their win. Organised brilliantly, unafraid to press and some rollicking play on the counter.
  • The universe doesn't want Cleverley to score.
Click to expand...

If there's anything I think Kagawa should have done, it's that he should've run at the defense a bit more. It's understandable that it's his debut game, but when the dumbasses around him choose to not make a run, he should've tried to take on defenses more just to get Everton players around him leaving some spaces open. His dribbling capability is superb enough to allow this.

He did it in Dortmund pulling defenders out of position.
 
E

elsk

Banned
Tim the Wiz said:
On the wing but drifting in. You saw Welbeck get two runs in on goal from Kagawa's service, even in that stop-start tactical display. Positioning is about constructing the best team possible, not the other way around. I don't view this positional crisis you've seized upon as the thing that will bring United's season unstuck, that's left to our passing game - our static fragility in midfield and in-cohesive play - and the never-ceasing spell of defensive injuries; hopefully that will all improve with time as the team gels together.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because it worked so well in the Germany NT playing Podolski out wide.
It will be interesting to see if Fergie can make it work, but I think he will end up benching someone (RvP, Rooney or Kagawa) or using Kagawa as CM. Playing strikers on the wing is stupid.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
Soi-Fong said:
If there's anything I think Kagawa should have done, it's that he should've run at the defense a bit more. It's understandable that it's his debut game, but when the dumbasses around him choose to not make a run, he should've tried to take on defenses more just to get Everton players around him leaving some spaces open. His dribbling capability is superb enough to allow this.

He did it in Dortmund pulling defenders out of position.
Click to expand...

I really felt sorry for him at times. Shinji tried being more expressive as the game opened. But Rooney and others were a step behind his creativity (although the two combined better in the second half) and missed out on supplying some very damaging runs. He kept it simple and you worry that he had to slow down to accommodate the team. Hopefully he can help pull our side into the next gear.

elsk said:
Yeah, because it worked so well in the Germany NT playing Podolski out wide.
It will be interesting to see if Fergie can make it work, but I think he will end up benching someone (RvP, Rooney or Kagawa) or using Kagawa as CM. Playing strikers on the wing is stupid.
Click to expand...

That's not a rule with universal application though, is it? I understand the reservations, but I think it comes down to the system and opposition being faced more than anything else. We won a CL title doing it after all.
 
S

Soi-Fong

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
I really felt sorry for him at times. Shinji tried being more expressive as the game opened. But Rooney and others were a step behind his creativity (although the two combined better in the second half) and missed out on supplying some very damaging runs. He kept it simple and you worry that he had to slow down to accommodate the team. Hopefully he can help pull our side into the next gear.
Click to expand...

This is what's wrong. United has to step up in gear and keep up with him. He shines when the attack is fast and clean. He shouldn't have to slow down for the likes of Rooney and such when they're still stuck in summer.
 
FootballFan

FootballFan

Member
elsk said:
Yeah, because it worked so well in the Germany NT playing Podolski out wide.
It will be interesting to see if Fergie can make it work, but I think he will end up benching someone (RvP, Rooney or Kagawa) or using Kagawa as CM. Playing strikers on the wing is stupid.
Click to expand...

True, but it does work sometimes, eg Henry, Eto'o and Villa. But I guess that is different since the system at Barca is different.
 
M

MPW

Member
Willkiller said:
I love how the group stages just as the nights start to darken to the point where it's pitch black and freezing for the final group games. Nice and warm in the house while the best teams in Europe go at it for qualification. Brilliant.
Click to expand...

group stages is pretty boring exluding one or two upsets and group of death

knockout round is where its at
 
E

elsk

Banned
MPW said:
group stages is pretty boring exluding one or two upsets and group of death

knockout round is where its at
Click to expand...

I agree. Group of death was awesome last season. BAYERN!

FootballFan said:
True, but it does work sometimes, eg Henry, Eto'o and Villa. But I guess that is different since the system at Barca is different.
Click to expand...

As you said, the systems are very different and Villa is pretty good on the wing. Would you play RvP out wide in the Barcelona lineup?
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Tim the Wiz said:
Fell asleep at the end of the Everton - United game. Seems like I didn't miss much. Some observations:

  • How good is Fellaini? I'll come back to this.
  • Rooney looks in poor form and perhaps even somewhat unfit. He tried to force the issue, stepping on Kagawa's toes and coming too deep once too often, forgetting his duty to stretch Everton's back-line. RVP has to start upfront against Fulham, surely. Nani - on the other hand - had a total shocker. I can't believe I was actually hoping for Young, or anyone really, to come on and replace him.
  • United has to build the team around Kagawa. Most everything good came about because of him.
  • But United also needs to sort out its inchorence; that is, one set of players is playing one way (distribute wide, cautious probing, play it to Scholes) and another set seem frustrated that quick, short balls aren't being released to their intelligent runs (Shinji, Cleverley, RVP when he came on, even Welbeck) through the center of the pitch. I don't think it's a lack of technical ability or vision, it's simply a clash of styles, habit and confidence. Fergie needs to get these players on the same wavelength and producing more fluid play. I have faith it will come in time and I know which system I'd prefer - see: previous point.
  • I love Scholes but this wasn't the game for him. Everton's pressing was outstanding. I thought playing a three would be enough but I was wrong. Our inability to cover for his static presence contributed to quite exploitable flaws in the midfield battle. While Vidic was shutting down Jelavic, Fellaini was winning the ball off the striker with impunity - how many times did he get himself into space as Everton went into our half? Sacrilege to say it, but Anderson should have started instead.
  • Everton absolutely deserved their win. Organised brilliantly, unafraid to press and some rollicking play on the counter.
  • The universe doesn't want Cleverley to score.
Click to expand...

I don't remember when 4-3-3 has ever worked well for United in recent times.
 
F

Fëanor

Member
Footie gaf, I know you love gifs! Sleeping Dogs time!! Don't worry I won't spam the thread.

sleepingdogsdrivesqu3y.gif

sleepingdogsdrivinghduaw.gif


Back to football, Mumei should totally join the ranks of Man United fans.
 
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