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Football Thread 2013-14 |OT2| Caravanning all the way to France

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W

Wilbur

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Fellaini and Carrick as a midfield combination wouldn't be too bad. Defensively at least it would be far more solid than what we have now where Anderson gets tired after 45 minutes, Giggs is negligent in his defending and Cleverley is a combination of both.

Wouldn't have too much going forwards but through 07-09 United played with a duo of deep midfielders quite regularly combining Carrick/Scholes/Hargreaves.

The thing was whilst they would sit deep and provide a solid platform for the team we had real star quality in our front 4. That just isn't the case anymore. It could be workable if our wingers found form again but that's a big if.

Anyhow Fellaini would be good for us, but it's been clear all along we needed two midfielders. Carrick is 32 remember.
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yep yep yep yep

I think Zaha's going to be surprisingly good this season; will probably be shit next year, as all of our wingers are after one season, but just his directness and unpredictability alone will be a change from what we usually have. If we can get Nani or Kagawa playing well on the opposite side then Fellaini/Carrick is a good base.

We need someone a bit more forward thinking for sure though. The money we've bid for Fabregas, I'd like us to use for Modric/Gundogan. Not saying it'll work, but at least let us make an equivalent bid and keep it fucking private.
 
Q

qindarka

Banned
bjaelke said:
1iAE99Y.png


I wonder what McLeish is thinking in his Glasgow dungeon.
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I think we often make too much of these sort of stories about a now great player not moving to another club earlier in his career. Players are products of their clubs' coaches, facilities, training regimes, the players around them as much as their innate talent, there is no guarantee that Bale for instance could have shone at Birmingham. Especially since he was still a left back then whereas he didn't truly break out at Spurs after he was moved to the left wing.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Florentino is gonna bid 120m euros for Bale after seeing today's training pics of Barcelona.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Wilbur said:
yep yep yep yep

I think Zaha's going to be surprisingly good this season; will probably be shit next year, as all of our wingers are after one season, but just his directness and unpredictability alone will be a change from what we usually have. If we can get Nani or Kagawa playing well on the opposite side then Fellaini/Carrick is a good base.

We need someone a bit more forward thinking for sure though. The money we've bid for Fabregas, I'd like us to use for Modric/Gundogan. Not saying it'll work, but at least let us make an equivalent bid and keep it fucking private.
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Agree, throws up and hypothetical question which me and Clegg were discussing yesterday.

Suppose we do end up signing Fellaini for the £23m. Would you rather we then signed somebody like a Cabaye as our more creative CM or wait until next summer when we could attempt to sign a world class central midfield player.

Guess you have to go some way to believe we even could sign a top player for the CM but I think I'd lean towards waiting. We can't sign players and then dispose of them quickly. Cabaye would probably cost close to £20m anyway.
 
E

enishi

Member
It was a bright sunny day in Hong Kong. The pitch should look better, at least not muddy. I did not get a ticket when I think the players will just walk around the pitch under this poor condition...

Under this progress, even signing Gibson could improve our midfield...
 
C

Clegg

Member
I agree with Viva about waiting for a quality creative midfielder.

Cabaye is better than Cleverley but I don't think he's a big enough improvement to justify spending £20m on. A lot of the best central midfielders seem happy at their clubs right now so I'd be happy enough to wait until the next window before trying again for that creative option. Fellaini and Carrick would be a handy midfield to have. Probably too defensive but a hell of a lot better than any other combo we have.
 
M

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
pcfifabros ill be on in half hour if anyone wants to continue rolling div 1
 
S

Salazar

Member
Clegg said:
I agree with Viva about waiting for a quality creative midfielder.
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Yar.

Fellaini, Baines, and some random martian fucker with quick feet from I don't care where who we can hype a bit.

Folks like Arnie will laugh at us until we fuck them up and they get roasted at home by Villa and Cardiff.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Agree, throws up and hypothetical question which me and Clegg were discussing yesterday.

Suppose we do end up signing Fellaini for the £23m. Would you rather we then signed somebody like a Cabaye as our more creative CM or wait until next summer when we could attempt to sign a world class central midfield player.

Guess you have to go some way to believe we even could sign a top player for the CM but I think I'd lean towards waiting. We can't sign players and then dispose of them quickly. Cabaye would probably cost close to £20m anyway.
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Yeah I'd go with you. I like Cabaye, and for 20m its not necessarily a bad option. But if we were to then spend 40m on someone next season, it would just render Cabaye a pointless 20m signing. Fellaini this year, put Fabregas money towards someone as good as Modric/Gundogan plus a little extra because 35m is a derisory offer :lol, and then if it works then fucking gold. If not then wait it out.

edit: also please get me SALAH
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Wilbur said:
Yeah I'd go with you. I like Cabaye, and for 20m its not necessarily a bad option. But if we were to then spend 40m on someone next season, it would just render Cabaye a pointless 20m signing. Fellaini this year, put Fabregas money towards someone as good as Modric/Gundogan plus a little extra because 35m is a derisory offer :lol, and then if it works then fucking gold. If not then wait it out.

edit: also please get me SALAH
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Gundogan is not going anywhere this year, they won't sell and I can't see any reason for him wanting to leave.

We can try for Modric but after that I'm not sure who else is left.

Problem is that bloody Woodward/Moyes want some kind of "iconic" signing don't they. Fools. I understand why tbf...but at this point I don't see us being able to afford the type of player who would make a big statement and is actually of need.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Mr Cola said:
Are we settling for a rebuild season then?
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Not settling, but we shouldn't aim for the stars. We have to fight for the title. I wouldn't say we need to win it, but as long as we're within a respectable amount of points and we're no worse than third - so say, eight points or so off the top and at least 80 points to pull figures off my head - I'd consider that an acceptable league season. At the moment Chelsea and City have the upper hand, so if we challenge and Moyes proves himself worthy of bringing the fight to big clubs away, we show positivity and we're not fucking flopping around ninth in February, it'll be okay.

I'd love us to win the FA Cup, but the Community Shield is important in just getting Moyes some silverware. And in Europe, obviously it all depends on the draw and we might get shafted with Madrid or someone in the second round again. But top of our group is a must, quarterfinals at least would be alright.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Mr Cola said:
Are we settling for a rebuild season then?
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Not really, I would still expect us to be in contention for honours and I don't think we need to rebuild really, just add some quality above what we have in a couple of positions.

But in terms of trying to build a team that can make a run for the CL..we're so far off, it's not going to happen in one summer without a truly unlimited budget.

Wilbur - 8 points is alot. That doesn't count as contending for the title IMO.
 
P

Peco

Member
90TilInfinity said:
So strange, lol.

Niang needs to get some goals though. Has he scored any during pre-season so far?
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No, but he made Bakaye score afaik.

But seriously, I look at him and I don't see a classic striker. Sure, he'll score some, but he's not a striker.
Frank the Great said:
If we sign Ljajic or Ola John or some other striker, Niang will be sitting the bench anyway. At least on loan somewhere he would get some minutes. And maybe if he scores some goals he could boost his confidence.
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If.
rQl.gif
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Gundogan is not going anywhere this year, they won't sell and I can't see any reason for him wanting to leave.

We can try for Modric but after that I'm not sure who else is left.

Problem is that bloody Woodward/Moyes want some kind of "iconic" signing don't they. Fools. I understand why tbf...but at this point I don't see us being able to afford the type of player who would make a big statement and is actually of need.
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Ehh I know, but it would be nice for us to show some intent. I think we can afford the type of players, at least theoretically. We just won't splash out for those players, and its hard enough getting someone to leave.

The best midfielders in the world all play for Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Dortmund and Juventus. No one - except maybe Modric/Khedira (fuck him) and Gustavo is going to consider leaving one of those clubs for first team football.

I dunno, our options are closed off after Fabregas and Modric I think, at least in terms of real world class. I would have loved a bid for Wanyama, Kondogbia, players with scope to improve.
 
M

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Wilbur said:
Not settling, but we shouldn't aim for the stars. We have to fight for the title. I wouldn't say we need to win it, but as long as we're within a respectable amount of points and we're no worse than third - so say, eight points or so off the top and at least 80 points to pull figures off my head - I'd consider that an acceptable league season. At the moment Chelsea and City have the upper hand, so if we challenge and Moyes proves himself worthy of bringing the fight to big clubs away, we show positivity and we're not fucking flopping around ninth in February, it'll be okay.

I'd love us to win the FA Cup, but the Community Shield is important in just getting Moyes some silverware. And in Europe, obviously it all depends on the draw and we might get shafted with Madrid or someone in the second round again. But top of our group is a must, quarterfinals at least would be alright.
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I worry that a third and a quarter or lower exit from champs league could cause a significant snowball problem. We already dont have the money to compete 1 for 1 with Chelsea and Man City, who, despite awful seasons last year and in Chelseas case significant lows and highs in the last seven seasons, still have financial clout. In similar circumstances we can perhaps bid high for a season, but not continually, and not for several positions ala city have this summer. We seem to be in a very tricky position.
 
LabouredSubterfuge

LabouredSubterfuge

Member
Wilbur said:
Ehh I know, but it would be nice for us to show some intent. I think we can afford the type of players, at least theoretically. We just won't splash out for those players, and its hard enough getting someone to leave.

The best midfielders in the world all play for Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Dortmund and Juventus. No one - except maybe Modric/Khedira (fuck him) and Gustavo is going to consider leaving one of those clubs for first team football.

I dunno, our options are closed off after Fabregas and Modric I think, at least in terms of real world class. I would have loved a bid for Wanyama, Kondogbia, players with scope to improve.
Click to expand...

Yeah I hope we try for Kondogbia unless he's already agreed to waste his career at RM.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Not really, I would still expect us to be in contention for honours and I don't think we need to rebuild really, just add some quality above what we have in a couple of positions.

But in terms of trying to build a team that can make a run for the CL..we're so far off, it's not going to happen in one summer without a truly unlimited budget.

Wilbur - 8 points is alot. That doesn't count as contending for the title IMO.
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8 points is less than 3 games points wise. If we're still in contention for the title with 3/5 games left, then... I'm okay with that. If we make 83 points, say, and still lose the title, there isn't too much to be said. Fergie's managed 89 the last two years, in 2010/11 we won the title with 80 points.

Maybe its defeatist attitude, but if we get to that amount of points and still lose the title, then that just means there was more superior teams as opposed to us being too poor, you know? Considering the downgrade in Ferguson to Moyes, I'm willing to make some allowances.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Wilbur said:
8 points is less than 3 games points wise. If we're still in contention for the title with 3/5 games left, then... I'm okay with that. If we make 83 points, say, and still lose the title, there isn't too much to be said. Fergie's managed 89 the last two years, in 2010/11 we won the title with 80 points.

Maybe its defeatist attitude, but if we get to that amount of points and still lose the title, then that just means there was more superior teams as opposed to us being too poor, you know? Considering the downgrade in Ferguson to Moyes, I'm willing to make some allowances.
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I see it abit differently.

The aim for Moyes is for us to compete for the title - that's the minimum requirement.

If we're still in contention for the title with 3 games left...well, we can be 8 behind at that stage and still be in contention technically, but not realistically. So the 3 game measure is a bit is a misnomer.

It all depends how the season pans out - but IMO we should be competing for the title until very late on at the very least.

If we don't then I would say Moyes hasn't achieved his targets. Not that I'd want him sacked, but it wouldn't be good enough.

Of course this is a very black and white way to look at it but you get me innit.
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Nominees for the 2008/09 player of the year:

Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
Edwin van der Sar (Manchester United)
Nemanja Vidić (Manchester United)

it brings a tear to my eye
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Wilbur said:
Nominees for the 2008/09 player of the year:

Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
Edwin van der Sar (Manchester United)
Nemanja Vidić (Manchester United)

it brings a tear to my eye
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;_;
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
I see it abit differently.

The aim for Moyes is for us to compete for the title - that's the minimum requirement.

If we're still in contention for the title with 3 games left...well, we can be 8 behind at that stage and still be in contention technically, but not realistically. So the 3 game measure is a bit is a misnomer.

It all depends how the season pans out - but IMO we should be competing for the title until very late on at the very least.

If we don't then I would say Moyes hasn't achieved his targets. Not that I'd want him sacked, but it wouldn't be good enough.

Of course this is a very black and white way to look at it but you get me innit.
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i get u innit

I think we're mostly in agreement to be honest. We need to compete for the title. We need to look like we're going to win some trophies. Whether that's just a COC - that's all we won in 2005/06 to be fair, and nothing 2011/12 - , an FA Cup, or the CL, we need to make a proper fist at everything this year and start building a winning culture with the Moyes regime.

The lowest we can finish that I won't deem a failure as long as we're in contention late on is third, as I'm sure we'll all agree. Anything less than that and he's failed his first season (but like you say, no sackings yet).
 
M

Mastadon

Banned
Wilbur said:
Nominees for the 2008/09 player of the year:

Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
Edwin van der Sar (Manchester United)
Nemanja Vidić (Manchester United)

it brings a tear to my eye
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Stevie was robbed.
 
N

noal

Banned
If we can't find anyone this year then we should wait but the world cup always inflates players prices which really won't help us.

Remember when we signed Hernandez before the world cup and then he had a blinder?
 
W

Wilbur

Banned
BrentonRodgers said:
Fact. Third highest goal scorer and joint second in assists that year.

Fuck me, we were so good in 08/09 :(
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That was a top Liverpool team for the most part. Can't remember for the fuck of me who played out wide - was it Riera and Kuyt?! - but Torres with Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano out wide was lovely.

Fucking 4-1 at Old Trafford on my bro's birthday. I was well moody at the carvery.
 
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