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Football Thread 2013/14 |OT25| Louis evangaalism strictly prohibited

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Not happy with this team

Henderson and Herrera won't give you the end product that you need from the midfielders imo

Don't think Vlaar will be keeping many clean sheets either. I always go for 4 fullbacks to increase the chances of getting goals and assists, along with the clean sheet bonuses.



With Luis coming in, that's Ivanovic out of Chelsea's first 11 isn't it?
 

hiroshawn

Banned
Newcastle United fans John Alder and Liam Sweeney were on doomed flight MH17. The pair were travelling to watch The Magpies on their pre-season tour of New Zealand.

RIP
 
Isco has been groomed for a false 9 position by Ancelotti. Maybe that is in Rodgers thinking. Would be a top signing for Liverpool in in my opinion.
 

sohois

Member
When it comes to predicting the next seasons results, the simplest method is to simply assume things will stay largely the same. It's the best starting point for a prediction, the 'base rate', to use bayesian terminology, from which to anchor predictions.

To get a little more complicated, an even more accurate predictor of future performance is a measure called Total Shots Ratio. Basically, how many shots a team takes versus how many they allow. The reason why TSR is effective is because it's essentially a measure of how much a team controls games - the more control you have, the more shots you will take and the less shots you allow. More accurately, TSR correlates fairly well to points gained - it's not the best correlation, which is goals, but it's still a very reliable indicator

But then why not just use goal difference? Regression to the mean. Put simply, TSR has the lowest regression to the mean of all statistical indicators. Regression to the mean, for the uninitiated, can be considered as how much a statistic relies on skill versus how much it relies on luck. The more regression, the more luck is involved and the less predictable a statistic. TSR has the lowest regression to the mean, at 31.2%. Goals has a 42.4% regression and Points a 47.8% regression over consecutive seasons.

So the best indicator for basing a future prediction is the TSR of teams from the previous season. To add just a little more complexity, we can also add in Shots on target ratio, which has a regression of 32.1% and is of course a good indicator of shot quality that teams create and allow others to create. Finally:

TSR+Shots on Target Ratio=
Arsenal: 0.557
Chelsea: 0.643
Everton: 0.547
Liverpool: 0.606
Man City: 0.657
Man U: 0.546
Tottenham: 0.563

To then turn that into Expected Points:
Man City: 79.1
Chelsea: 76.8
Liverpool: 70.4
Tottenham: 63
Arsenal: 62
Everton: 60.3
Man U: 60.1

Now, a few notes:
1. in real terms things get more stretched and less close since points are obviously awarded by integers; you can't get 1.85 points
2. No doubt everyone will pick out Tottenham and yell "Lol Tottenham r shit. Didn't u watch last season. Stats = Craps" First of all, Tottenham did finish 5th, on 69 points, which would have been enough for 4th place in many preceding seasons. Additionally a few other stat measures which I won't get into went badly for them but could explain better why they have this rating.

From these positions, we can then add our qualitative observations to slide expected points up or down. From a purely statistical perspective, United are 8th (I didn't bother including Southampton) favourite, but only marginally with little difference between them and Arsenal or Tottenham. However Arsenal have done fairly well with their transfers so far, so adding in my qualitative observations I would not expect them to overhaul the expected gap. The difference to the top 3 teams is likely far too large to overcome.
 

LegoArmo

Member
But there's a chance/likelihood that all of those teams will sign 4-5 new players. The previous seasons results mean next to nothing.
 

Walshy

Member
Hiddink is a good shout

Benitez would be hounded out of the job after his first loss, I fear. Think he'd do a great job though with his philosophy of finding the system that best fits the most, and best, players.
The press would destroy Benitez. Hiddink is a good shout though on a short-term contract, anything is better than Hodgson.

3sixty said Lallana plays best as part of midfield rather than part of the front three. That would make sense for us as it's been reported we want more gaols to come from midfield next season.

Isco would be a great signing but I can't see Madrid selling him right now.
Isco would be brilliant addition, but I would like another winger to provide depth, Griezmann preferably.

Pretty sure the bloke who did Discus for us at the Olympics is playing in the NFL. Lawrence something or other. Terrible with names me

Think he is at one of the Cali teams
He plays for the 49ers.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
So the best indicator for basing a future prediction is the TSR of teams from the previous season. To add just a little more complexity, we can also add in Shots on target ratio, which has a regression of 32.1% and is of course a good indicator of shot quality that teams create and allow others to create. Finally:

TSR+Shots on Target Ratio=
Arsenal: 0.557
Chelsea: 0.643
Everton: 0.547
Liverpool: 0.606
Man City: 0.657
Man U: 0.546
Tottenham: 0.563

To then turn that into Expected Points:
Man City: 79.1
Chelsea: 76.8
Liverpool: 70.4
Tottenham: 63
Arsenal: 62
Everton: 60.3
Man U: 60.1

Now, a few notes:
1. in real terms things get more stretched and less close since points are obviously awarded by integers; you can't get 1.85 points
2. No doubt everyone will pick out Tottenham and yell "Lol Tottenham r shit. Didn't u watch last season. Stats = Craps" First of all, Tottenham did finish 5th, on 69 points, which would have been enough for 4th place in many preceding seasons. Additionally a few other stat measures which I won't get into went badly for them but could explain better why they have this rating.

From these positions, we can then add our qualitative observations to slide expected points up or down. From a purely statistical perspective, United are 8th (I didn't bother including Southampton) favourite, but only marginally with little difference between them and Arsenal or Tottenham. However Arsenal have done fairly well with their transfers so far, so adding in my qualitative observations I would not expect them to overhaul the expected gap. The difference to the top 3 teams is likely far too large to overcome.

If we win a couple of big games and start home games properly I'm sure we will be competitive next season. Last year was a fiasco.
 

sohois

Member
Did this metric forsee Liverpool going from 7th to 2nd?

Liverpool outperformed their expectations somewhat but most models I saw had their rating quite close to the other top teams. It was not a surprising challenge unlike United's in 12/13.
 
Liverpool outperformed their expectations somewhat but most models I saw had their rating quite close to the other top teams. It was not a surprising challenge unlike United's in 12/13.

Man Utd had missed out on goal difference the season before, and signed the one of the world's best strikers :s
 
Tony Pulis would be my pick. What he did with Crystal Palace last season was impressive. His teams are very hard to play against as well.

Edit. Short term, I think he'd get us competing again.

Pulis is my pick as well. He'd have the plums to drop the dead weight and get the FA off this deluded 'golden generation' thing.

Actually I'd love to see 'Arry do it. He'd be handing out passports like candy.
 

sohois

Member
Man Utd had missed out on goal difference the season before, and signed the one of the world's best strikers :s

yes but using the same stats indicators ranks man united s title win as the largest overperformance in the 14 years of stat history.

another reason why i remain skeptical about united this season. moyes wasn't taking a title team to massive underperformance, Ferguson took a shit time to massive overperformance. moyes then performed as average
 
yes but using the same stats indicators ranks man united s title win as the largest overperformance in the 14 years of stat history.

another reason why i remain skeptical about united this season. moyes wasn't taking a title team to massive underperformance, Ferguson took a shit time to massive overperformance. moyes then performed as average

What did United's 2012/2013 statistics predict their points total would be for 2013/2014?
 

Salvadora

Member
yes but using the same stats indicators ranks man united s title win as the largest overperformance in the 14 years of stat history.

another reason why i remain skeptical about united this season. moyes wasn't taking a title team to massive underperformance, Ferguson took a shit time to massive overperformance. moyes then performed as average
What do you think the statistical result of losing Suarez will be (and the Sanchez factor)?

The former especially comes across as the elephant in the room.
 

Hixx

Member
Speaking of injured penises has anyone ever torn their cock muscle?

Most uncomfortable week of my life, had to sit basically on the base of my spine or the pressure on my taint would kill. Was also worrying that my nob would veer off to the left for weeks afterwards, thought it was going to be permanent.
 
Speaking of injured penises has anyone ever torn their cock muscle?

Most uncomfortable week of my life, had to sit basically on the base of my spine or the pressure on my taint would kill. Was also worrying that my nob would veer off to the left for weeks afterwards, thought it was going to be permanent.

So that's what you were whining about, you broke your dick lol
 

Meier

Member
Has Meier come in here to say that if Isco leaves it will only be to reunite with his Daddy?

Has he?

Haha. I do think Pellegrini would want him to join us if he leaves Madrid, but I'm not sure where he'd fit in right now especially with us effectively out of foreign player spots. Nasri's renewal probably rules out an option for us to sign him unless we shipped off Navas immediately. Isco is not very fast though so I think we'd lose a lot by getting rid of Navas.
 
It was Isco who refused to kiss the Madrid badge wasn't it?

Closet, or not so closet, Barca fan. Florentino can sniff that shit out. He's done.
 

wedward

Member
Haha. I do think Pellegrini would want him to join us if he leaves Madrid, but I'm not sure where he'd fit in right now especially with us effectively out of foreign player spots.

I think City would probably be his first choice, but like you said, probably not a spot for him.
 

Wilbur

Banned
When it comes to predicting the next seasons results, the simplest method is to simply assume things will stay largely the same. It's the best starting point for a prediction, the 'base rate', to use bayesian terminology, from which to anchor predictions.

To get a little more complicated, an even more accurate predictor of future performance is a measure called Total Shots Ratio. Basically, how many shots a team takes versus how many they allow. The reason why TSR is effective is because it's essentially a measure of how much a team controls games - the more control you have, the more shots you will take and the less shots you allow. More accurately, TSR correlates fairly well to points gained - it's not the best correlation, which is goals, but it's still a very reliable indicator

But then why not just use goal difference? Regression to the mean. Put simply, TSR has the lowest regression to the mean of all statistical indicators. Regression to the mean, for the uninitiated, can be considered as how much a statistic relies on skill versus how much it relies on luck. The more regression, the more luck is involved and the less predictable a statistic. TSR has the lowest regression to the mean, at 31.2%. Goals has a 42.4% regression and Points a 47.8% regression over consecutive seasons.

So the best indicator for basing a future prediction is the TSR of teams from the previous season. To add just a little more complexity, we can also add in Shots on target ratio, which has a regression of 32.1% and is of course a good indicator of shot quality that teams create and allow others to create. Finally:

TSR+Shots on Target Ratio=
Arsenal: 0.557
Chelsea: 0.643
Everton: 0.547
Liverpool: 0.606
Man City: 0.657
Man U: 0.546
Tottenham: 0.563

To then turn that into Expected Points:
Man City: 79.1
Chelsea: 76.8
Liverpool: 70.4
Tottenham: 63
Arsenal: 62
Everton: 60.3
Man U: 60.1

Now, a few notes:
1. in real terms things get more stretched and less close since points are obviously awarded by integers; you can't get 1.85 points
2. No doubt everyone will pick out Tottenham and yell "Lol Tottenham r shit. Didn't u watch last season. Stats = Craps" First of all, Tottenham did finish 5th, on 69 points, which would have been enough for 4th place in many preceding seasons. Additionally a few other stat measures which I won't get into went badly for them but could explain better why they have this rating.

From these positions, we can then add our qualitative observations to slide expected points up or down. From a purely statistical perspective, United are 8th (I didn't bother including Southampton) favourite, but only marginally with little difference between them and Arsenal or Tottenham. However Arsenal have done fairly well with their transfers so far, so adding in my qualitative observations I would not expect them to overhaul the expected gap. The difference to the top 3 teams is likely far too large to overcome.

wat
 

Slizz

Member
So the United countdown to the preseason tour was dumb... So we're 'on tour' now but don't play till the 24th. Lame. Anderson isn't even around for ridiculous photo op's.
 

King_Moc

Banned
What do you think the statistical result of losing Suarez will be (and the Sanchez factor)?

The former especially comes across as the elephant in the room.

Hard to tell. Liverpool are improving across all other fronts, and the existing players have been performing better and better over time as well. I still see an awful lot of goals coming from them. We'll just have to see.
 

sohois

Member
What did United's 2012/2013 statistics predict their points total would be for 2013/2014?

id have to dig around to find it, but a quick recollection had united around 3rd or 4th strongest, roughly similar to arsenal, Liverpool and tottenham

What do you think the statistical result of losing Suarez will be (and the Sanchez factor)?

The former especially comes across as the elephant in the room.

predicting the effect of individual players is not something statistics is capable of , to be frank.

people tend to overrate the effect that any individual has, but that's about as much as i would risk stating
 
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