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Football Thread 2015/16 |OT| The Great American Sport
- Thread starter Lunar FC
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longdi
Banned
40M pound even after tax...why would he get another stressful job?
How many of us can earn even 4M in our life time?
in 3 years pep has done absolutely nothing to make Bayern stronger
we still fall apart when we concead the first goal and we're a little bit out of luck like recently against gladbach.
he hasn't developed any new talent, he nearly fucked Thiago's career, destroyed Ribery and Benatia and if he could he would have sold Müller 2 years ago
Götze would have been much better if he dodn't have to play out of his postiion
granted players like Thiago or Alonso wouldn't have come to Bayern if he wasn't the manager
we still fall apart when we concead the first goal and we're a little bit out of luck like recently against gladbach.
he hasn't developed any new talent, he nearly fucked Thiago's career, destroyed Ribery and Benatia and if he could he would have sold Müller 2 years ago
Götze would have been much better if he dodn't have to play out of his postiion
granted players like Thiago or Alonso wouldn't have come to Bayern if he wasn't the manager
Costa went to Bayern to play for Pep as well.
Fuck Mourinho.
Also, Chelsea are not going to get a high profile manager... they'll get someone mediocre like Juande Ramos or overrated like Gus Hiddink. No one wants that job and much less so with the current state of chelsea.
If they get a big name coach to join them it won't be until summer.
yeah him probably too
but he had to chose between chelsea and bayern and I think he would have chosen Bayern even with McClaren at the helm
Looks a bit bland imo. Prem league teams need to step up their stadium games, germany shits all over us in that regard
I know banter and all but whenever I read statements like these I wonder if that person forgot where we came from. Remember the years especially after 2002 when we missed to establish a base for our 3 glorious years from 99 on. The clueless Hitzfeld with mediocre players, from 2005 Magath and even more average players with no imagination and finally the low point with Klinsmann when we were humiliated even in Bundesliga. I was happy that time when we reached the CL quarter finals that time only to see that Europe's top clubs were lightyears ahead of us. All those stars, with legendary managers and all their glamour playing the tactically best football was something I never imagined for Bayern.
I am a Bayern supporter for more than 25 years and I used to admire Juventus, Ajax, Barcelona and Milan for being the best clubs at their time. Then van Gaal came, and while we all knew his ego it was the first time our board not only hired a coach but an expert to lay the foundation for a position based holding style of play.
This was the turning point really coupled with perfect transfers and Jupp Heynckes copying Barca under Guardiola with Klopp'esque counter pressing. Many might see 2013 as the pinnacle of that transformation but it is always more epic and easier to reach the top than defend it.
Then Pep decided to join my Bayern. I only dreamed of such an icon. He implemented a philosophy that made possession not a mere mean for having the ball but to dominante and make the opposition run only to make mistakes leading to goals. It is a pleasure to watch my team dominating every side in the world and play an attractive football like this. Yes, he lost rather clear two CL semis but the work he has done so this generation of players and the next are on such a level cannot be appreciated enough. He wants to win, so he might goes a bit too far with his training intensity but blaming him is foolish. Even more foolish is to bring down his work to those two defeats completely ignoring his achievement: The perfect football squad.
So thank you Pep for those 3 incredible years.
Milchmonster
Member
I don't know who this guy is, we only have Kagawa.
But I was happy. The lads playing jingle bells and Tuchel fucking it up, amazing.
Götze joined because of Guardiola. That went really well :lol
Oh wait, I forgot that's just another way to say he likes money.
Se7enSword
Banned
I guess I can't expect Ancelotti to join United now. 
oh I definitely didn't forget about the darker times in our recent history.
but what has this got to do with pep?
this I totally agree with. Van Gaal may be an asshole and a egomaniacal manager but he lay the groundwork for what we are today
this philosophy was already implemented by Van Gaal. Heynckes perfected it. I still believe the best football I saw from pep's Bayern was in his first season when he overtook Heynckes' Bayern. this Bayern side made absolutely no progress in the tactics department. in fact we see it times and times again that Pep has to adjust his tactics mid game (laughable 3 man defense against Neymar, Messi, Suarez). defensively we actually regressed
I blame him completely for risking the health of our players despite doctors warning him. HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THIS? HOW CAN YOU SERIOUSLY NOT BLAME HIM.
Pep didn't put us where we are now. in fact he didn't contribute anything to our philosophy or the way we play football. it was already there when he took over.
all I'll remember after his reign is finally over will be the laughable 0:4 at home in the semi finals and ineptitude to learn from his mistakes. too bad we had to pay with the health of exceptional football players like Robben, Benatia, Thiago, Ribery and many more
Simply to unterstand why he joined us and why we never had a chance to compete with the best because we failed to establish a long term strategy and system for our club. Hoeness hiring Guardiola was something he wanted since 2008, the moment he and Rummenigge realized that this base was neccessary to get Pep. We as a club wanted this style of play and the foundation was getting someone who already build that thing at Barcelona (Gaal). Our players needed a proper education on a tactical level to finally play the football we do right now. Heynckes saw that he failed to do this in 2012, when we were good, but lacked the final tactical determination. All of our midfielders are used to play this either because of la masia or the work of Gaal and Heynckes.
To understand what impact Peps work had is to look at all the trophies he or teams playing his style won.
We do not need to talk about Spain with their tiki-taka. Germany was always their strongest opponent, but in all 2 games we lost without even having a chance. Our reactive tactics with strong defence and quick counters were useless. When Löw finally switched to possession and passes, taking over Peps style we were able to win WC. Or look at the CL winners the last couple of years. The constant winners or finalists are mostly possession playing teams. There is a reason why Bayern, Dortmund under Tuchel, Barca and Real with Ancelotti are playing this. Peps idea is surely based on Cruyffs but it is, if you look at the success it offers, the best way to play right now.
Well, then you are either blind or simply denying. As I mentioned, Gaal was NOT playing variable positions but fixed ones. A small but tremendous difference. Thats why he failed to develop it further, because his field layout was limited, opponents could simply counter us by blocking key positions. He at least gave the base level of tactical understanding to the players how to behave in possession with and without the ball. Heynckes brought more stability when we played against the ball, the defence worked out better by positioning deeper on the pitch and he changed the system basically to what Enrique is doing, he subordinated the system to Ribery, Robben and Müller. Everyone else had to adapt to it. It only failed because of a very slow midfield, which was corrected with the most essential transfer Bayern ever made: Javier Martinez.
Then a few factors like determination by losing the CL final unfortunately at home, Barca without Messi and direction because of an ill Tito Vilanova, a lot of luck by not conceding 2 goals in the first half of CL final against Dortmund, etc. came in. Heynckes did what Hoeness told him to: Bayern must play like Barcelona under Pep. He implemented more position switches, aggressive pressing and higher passing rates to make the opposition run and fatigue. This was enough to win CL and get closer to what we are capable but holding that success is incredibly hard. There are only 2 or 3 clubs I remember being that dominant for a long time in the last 25 years.
And now your limited paroles come in. There is a reason why no club was able to defend the CL title since the rebranding of the tournament. There are always 2 or 3 clubs every years that are good enough to win the CL and beat each other regardless of system, names and all. Calling the absolute versatility Pep brought us a regression is moronic. Most of all clubs we play against have no idea how to beat us because he changes tactics as he like, reacting pro active and countering any match plans of the opposition. I agree that the rematch against Real was a mistake by him, switching back to Heynckes 4-2-1-3 and the bad defending against set pieces. The game a year later against Barcelona was different because we had many injuries, our best players were out and Barca was in phenomenal shape, they were simply better. Look who was on the field then and who played against us. The idea of man marking wasnt bad in theory because he wanted to take those 3 out an get to Barcas defence on the shortest way long balls to Lewandowski. Failed of course, but still decent enough what we played. Even Heynckes wouldnt have stood a chance without Robben, Ribery , Alaba, Martinez, Thiago out of form, Lahm in midfield etc.
And the laughable accusation that he is responsible for players getting injured after recovery: Look at the times missing of our key players before Pep came. Robben, Ribery were always prone to injuries, Martinez and Badstuber had severe injuries, Alaba always had problems with his knees. Schweinsteiger was never really fit because of small injuries. Kroos with a muscular injury under Heynckes. What Im saying is: Our medical prevention is non existent, that is what made Pep mad. In Barcelona and Madrid, they have staff only looking at Messi or Cristiano analyzing their movement and immediately react when they feel that they might get into risking an injury. We do not have this. Our doc is in the middle of the city, not at the club. Medical support is in stone age compared to other top clubs. Things changed for the good under Pep in this regard and as I said earlier, he is a winner and wants his best players. Do you really think that the club would risk injuries of players against medical avdvise? Really? Anyway, every club has its weakness, the one of possession playing ones is counters. If you have squads like Real or Barca even we with a B-squad might lose to them. This wont change under Carlo or whoever comes to us.
New contracts for Bayern players. No Pep around.
Really great news. Especially happy for Martienz. That guy really loves this club.
Nice to see Alonso doing another year as well.
Now all it needs is Pep staying for the ultimate trolling.
Quality post. I agree 100%.
Really glad about the contract extensions, especially Javis.
Most definitely, even then it was the totally unnecessary 3-0 by Neymar in the 94 Minute, that broke their back. Leaving Nou Camp 0-1 or 0-2 would have been much more manageable.
It might have been a closer first match maybe, but that is something we will never know. Barca was without a doubt the best and most constant team last year so there is no reason to be mad or ashamed about losing to them. On the contrary, it made Pep and us even more determined to wipe out any possibilities to our disatvantage. We got Costa who was an unknown and became right one of the top 5 wingers in half a year. Kingsley Coman with 19 and how he helps us carrying our whole attack at the moment. Arturo Vidal with his power and mentality, Kimmich who might become one of the best midfielders in the next couple of years is also the transition we were facing and Pep did it in just one summer.
God I hope you're right about Van Gaal.
It'd be hilarious if Bayern went for Mourinho now.
DerZuhälter
Member
That is a bunch of Pep dickstroking horse shit. Calling you out for being FootballFans alt-account in disguise. Ancelotti did nowhere near play Pep's style 2 years ago, he merely brought a balance to the counter attack focus. He surely didn't win the semi-finals against by Bayern the way you are describing it, did he now?
The excess of possession as a defensive measure but also as a way to wear the opponents out, demoralize them and make them more prone for mistakes is only seen in Pep's teams. He goes further than any manager around in being also extremely riskaverse and drilling it into the players heads which chances to pursue and which not. Where possession is allowed to be lost and where not.
There is nothing brilliant about it. It is complete and utter boring shite to watch his teams play. I don't have the endurance or patience for these types of games.
They once had LvG, so i won't be surprised, though LvG is now pretty cool these days and not as arrogant as a few years back, must be the age. Eventually you learn to cool down and take things slowly as you age.
Why are we always need to come down to one or two matches out 70 a season that should be the ultimate indicator for a whole year?DerZuhälter;189750695 said:
Ancelotti raised the possession to nearly 70% against every opposition execpt Bayern, simply because Bayern forced Real to play like this. Ancelotti had extremely fast wingers and scored with their first chance. That was always our week spot. The rematch was early decided because of 2 set pieces and he left Bayern having the ball.
Oh, and PSG with Ancelotti had similar merits.
The typical german that wants to see players run for their life, defend the shit out of the game, attacking with quick counters and do not even touch the ball because its boring when the own team has to build the game. Lack of understanding how this beautiful game works. You dont need to like Pep or Bayerns games but we are depending on results and the best way to guarantee a win is to not let the opposition score.DerZuhälter;189750695 said:
You know, if you look at Einsteins or Heisenbergs mathematical equations there is also no brilliance to it. But if you see what they describe and what they make possible you might rethink that stubborn argumentation of "Stammtischparolen"
:|
moronic, limited paroles, laughable accusation
I had respect fou you jack but honestly I had to think hard if you're actually worth it
I swear Bla staying out of arguments in the football thread is probably the best decision
you tend to ignore all the roports about the clashes between the doctors and him. he bought Ribery in a lost game after 2 days of training with the team and after a 9 months injury. he immediatley gets injured again. doctors advised not to use him but he knew better.
and the whole thiago fiasco where the "doctros" in those ultra high end clinics gave him steroids and consequently destroying his tendons. AGAINST THE FUCKING ADVISE OF MÜLLER WOHLFAHRT
I understand what you mean. maintaing a certain level is hard. surely you can't get better than the best of europe. Pep was brought here to maintain what was achieved by van gaal and heynckes but even with all the injuries we should not forget that he had the best team in europe at his hands, a serious club without debts, youth prospects, high end infrastucture.
nothing was thanks to him. he had all this at his disposal
DerZuhälter
Member
Quite pompous assumption. It's not a lack of understanding, it's a lack of entertainment. Pep's football is boring. He hit his stride 2009ish then his greed for more possession became his highest maxim.
I love how Pep fans always completely ignore the sheer brilliance and quality of their teams players. Barcelona works perfectly fine without Pep and a lesser degree of possession. So will Bayern.
This nonsense of keeping 80% possession and playing riskaverse against Ingolstadt and HSV because the "best way to guarantee a win is to not let the opposition score" is Jamie Redknapp level of ludacris analysis and an insult to the teams players.
They could crush them, whatever way they like.
And that's the other point: A team of the caliber of Real Madrid, Bayern or Barcelona, will always have more possession than their lesser quality opponents. It comes with the territory and the quality on the pitch. This notion, that this is only now happening due to the influence of Guardiola is absolutely insane fan drivel.
Alright. I can't possibly explain the game and achievement Guardiola's to an entertainment viewer who probably never played football personally on a mid level. I respect your view though. As a supporter I'm quite satisfied with him as he was the first coach at Bayern since Hitzfeld who stayed more than two years. Regardless if he leaves, bayern games wont become more "entertaining" than they are. The club has a philosophy and system. Carlo will adept and bring his ideas in, but 90% of all games will be Bayern passing and finding the gap to score. Your superficial view of things do not really match the reality of his and the players daily work. In any case, posts like yours are the confirmation to what an incredible machine Bayern has become.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
So Pep to City, Anchelotti to Bayern and Chelsea hires some poor sack of shit to lead us to a decade of mediocrity. Probably that muffintop Rafa Benitez again after Real fires his bum ass.
Fuck you Abramovich
Fuck you Abramovich
ohyouagain
Member
While there is no doubt Bayern have become a stunning war machine these last four years, I and we all must acknowledge that they haven't shown the level of prowess under Pep that they did under Heyckens. Yes, Heyckens lost to Basel and to BATE on his way to winning the CL but he destroyed Barca also, which Pep could not do although he twice had a chance to play a Liga juggernaut in the CL semis. And that kind of events is a destiny-changer that altered (for good) Bayern's image and cemented their position into Europe's trium vira of the best teams. We expected the same kind of results with Pep.
barca were weak when bayern beat them, was still unexpected but the current barca team has an attack which I doubt bayern can handle. although barcas defence is so shit it'd be an even game. this year's bayern looks very strong imo, I can't see anyone other than barca beating them (at home that is, I'm sure they'll lose/draw to every shitty team away)
Please yes. Take Benitez off our ass.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Barca will smash the shit out of Bayern again if Messi is fit
Boateng's soul might be taken from his mortal body again
Boateng's soul might be taken from his mortal body again
Roland_Gunner
Member
Holding last year's loss against Pep is nuts. Half the Bayern team was injured and Messi was on fire. There isn't a manager in the world who could change the result. Managers have to be accountable but there must also be context.
Steverulez
Member
It will be Simeone or Conte, whichever one wants to put a lot of time into developing the younger players i'd wager.
Simeone seems to be the favourite.
Jose gave a farewell speech to the players today, some of them didn't turn up, i'd like a list of those players, so they can get the fuck out of the club.
ohyouagain
Member
I agree there were circumstances at play in 2014. Much worse were the two ties against Madrid the year before. To lost 0-4 at home after having beaten Barça 7-0 on aggregate wasn't exactly good publicity. Guardiola knows nobody has forgiven him this misstep and he is probably tired of trying to make up with the crowd.
GoldenCrow
Member
Hasn't Pep always had his detractors at Bayern? I don't follow them but the first thing I remember about the club when Pep was announced was the disquiet that he would ruin the German tradition built up over the years under Gaal and Heynckes. The fans disliking his style of play and management which led to the board and him not being on the same page and asking for clarification on his position. Then there was the medical staff stuff and then earlier this year people coming out of the woodwork bringing up the whole too many Spaniards thing.
One thing Pep has done for Bayern regardless of whether the fans are enamoured with the style of play he brings to teams or not is the fact that he has made Bayern a far more appealing club to a global audience. He has broken down some of the walls that have plagued German football for a long time i.e. that they look a bit incestuous.
One thing Pep has done for Bayern regardless of whether the fans are enamoured with the style of play he brings to teams or not is the fact that he has made Bayern a far more appealing club to a global audience. He has broken down some of the walls that have plagued German football for a long time i.e. that they look a bit incestuous.
Pleeeaaasse let this list be leaked before they play Sunderland.
Steverulez
Member
Some source already said it was Cesc and Hazard, but I seriously doubt it was Cesc.
More likely to be players like Oscar who are in and out of the team regularly. Also I don't see how it matters before Sunderland, fans will be reacting as they would whatever happens. Roman promised the players a clean slate
ohyouagain
Member
Ten times this. Absolutely, he helped put the Bundesliga on the global map and so should also Ancelotti.
In definitive, a great part of the increased TV broadcasting rights next year might be imputable to his presence at Bayern. And that's an externality that is, literally, priceless.
Milchmonster
Member
Pep is just boring and couldn't do it on a rainy night at Stoke.
Bayern will be fine without him.
Bayern will be fine without him.
Milchmonster
Member
Well, I agree that Pep's presence gave an international vibe to the Bundesliga. But I doubt anyone in Spain will watch this boring Bundesliga because of that.
I'd reckon BVB being in the CL final 2013 and Chicha being at Leverkusen are just as big, if not bigger, factors as Pep.
GoldenCrow
Member
Spain is an irrelevant market to football clubs outside of Spain though not ignored as most people have a club they support and Pep being intrinsically tied to Barca would only hinder that with the wider Spanish market.
Pep comes with his accolades and is a brand in himself, many journalists from many nations swoon over his v-necks and his shiny dome hyping him to be a genius thus bringing attention with his every movement being broadcast globally and being tied to nearly every big club at almost every opportunity. It also helps the Bundesliga, well Bayern look more open (even though there are many German clubs with for more diverse squads) and more appealing to a wider audience. Which is what brings money to the league and merchandising from a wider market base, though this doesn't necessarily equate to better quality football just look at the Premier League and Real.
Who does Real supporters want? Zidane?
ohyouagain
Member
Everytime I see the word "sogno" in Italian, I can't help but think of this Messi to Juve jackshit from Tuttosport.
With the bold quote I don't agree. Spain has suffered from lower budgets compred to other powerhouses although they are way past everyone performance-wise. Imagine what will happen now they are getting 1+ billion $ every season in TV money. It might change the deal.
Again, this. To give crowds worldwide incentives to watch your league is the priority. You can do this by buying players with whom a given sub-market identifies or present your product as THE most emotional, heartbraking, enthralling show in the world. The UK guys know their stuff.
Before Mourinho took over, Madrid hadn't been able to go pas the last 16 in the CL for seven straight years, Remember Lyon and Roma. He took you out of your own Klinsmann/Magath era.
No matter the coach, what we need is to get rid of those mercenaries that think they are bigger than the club.
1 step, sadly, is Ronaldo. His time here is over.
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