I don't think they have a board stupid enough to do that.
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Football Thread 2016/17 |OT| Mou Money Mo Pogba
- Thread starter Lunar FC
- Start date
I don't think they have a board stupid enough to do that.
It's going to be really interesting to see how United handle this minor stumbling block with Leicester next week, a team who have themselves already experienced challenges after a stellar season. If you get battered at home to Leicester I think it's time to start wondering if this is a trend and not an anomaly.
McMoneyman
Member
Following up with Stoke at home and then Liverpool and Chelsea away.
Sorry, but how hard can it be? Why do coaches always want to do their own shit?
Just go back to Fergie's 4-2-2-2 and be done with it. Ibra and Rooney up front, Martial on the left and Mikhitaryan on the right. Pogba and I don't care who next to him and it will be better.
It's mainly because I think Rooney is best in a two striker system. Sure he'll walk around on 10 aswell, but he won't be locked to it.
Just go back to Fergie's 4-2-2-2 and be done with it. Ibra and Rooney up front, Martial on the left and Mikhitaryan on the right. Pogba and I don't care who next to him and it will be better.
It's mainly because I think Rooney is best in a two striker system. Sure he'll walk around on 10 aswell, but he won't be locked to it.
Audioboxer
Member
Micki is a num 10 and Martial prefers being a striker.
We haven't done anything in years about buying some out and out wingers. Fergie always had proper wingers.
The biggest issue right now is an abundance of midfielders, none who are classic wingers and a few who could all take up Rooney's position but Rooney being Rooney always starts. Mou's either got to get ruthless or we'll be playing the rotate the formation/squad game for the whole season.
GoldenCrow
Member
Because he isn't Ferguson. Very few coaches/managers have the ability he had and none see the game in the same way, he won the league more than a few times with average squads and owners that leached money out of the club rather than invest it back in.
Manchester United fans really need to get over the Ferguson days, it will be the death of the club trying to get every manager to imitate what he did. Take Leeds United as an example when Don Revie left and the string of managers that came in afterwards and what happened with all of them being expected to follow in his footsteps. Allow a manager to do what they need to do an give them time to build. Buying a string of expensive players wont turn a club into winners again overnight both City and Chelsea demonstrate big money signings is not a guarantee to success and they need to fit into a system which needs time.
Probably when the press stop the United hyperbole during the summer only to knock them down again in the season United will actually become a threatening team again. Mourinho has a lot of work to do with that team it was obvious before the season began. It took him a year to get a much stronger Chelsea squad that were playing much better firing properly. Van Gaal eventually would have created a slick squad even though it would have been the anaemic style that was being exhibited but the players would be extremely well drilled, potentially cleared out an overpaid player entirely out of frustration and the younger players would have been the new foundation.
Edit: United pretty much have a squad that can play to Mou's usual 4-2-3-1 and his more fringe but successful 3-4-1-2. Reading/watching some of the analysis of Pogba over the weekend was bizarre it is like they have been watching an imaginary attacking midfielder at Juve for the last few seasons, where he played up front all the time. No idea what the hell they have been watching, Pogba is a centre mid pivot who was just a defensive as he was attacking if not more so due to the type of football in the league.
Dangerblade
Member
Basically. Those damn biased referees!
I continue to be surprised that Mourinho actually declared that Man United was a title contender this year especially considering other top teams teams failed to do so.
More than players, tactics or manager behaviour, Man United is still suffering from the 3 previous years of failing to meet expectations and most players are from that era. Even yesterday you could see the attitude after Watford went 1-0 "Here we go again" in some of the players (compare the body language of Ibra with Smalling after the goal and it's quite evident). That naturally doesn't change quickly and there is always the possibly he would not be able to change it too.
It's like they expect to lose after they go down in the game and it's the exact same thing it happened during Mourinho 1st year at Real Madrid which is why I'm surprised he wasn't more careful setting expectations at the start of the season. Even during his 2nd spell at Chelsea, he always said the 2nd year would be where they would challenge for the title (and they won with some stumbles).
Also the squad still has some holes to be filled which were quite evident even before the start: Bailly isn't reliable as a top CB yet and needs someone experienced alongside him, Rooney, playing Mata and Mikhitaryan as wingers instead of #10 role where they could shine, Rooney, holding midfielder needs a massive upgrade if he refuses to play Schneiderlin or Carrick (Fellaini has not been terrible so far but he should be Man Utd John Obi Mikel not Man Utd Makelele/Nemanja Matic), Rooney, lack of at least 1 true winger that can provide width, Rooney and lack of confidence.
More than players, tactics or manager behaviour, Man United is still suffering from the 3 previous years of failing to meet expectations and most players are from that era. Even yesterday you could see the attitude after Watford went 1-0 "Here we go again" in some of the players (compare the body language of Ibra with Smalling after the goal and it's quite evident). That naturally doesn't change quickly and there is always the possibly he would not be able to change it too.
It's like they expect to lose after they go down in the game and it's the exact same thing it happened during Mourinho 1st year at Real Madrid which is why I'm surprised he wasn't more careful setting expectations at the start of the season. Even during his 2nd spell at Chelsea, he always said the 2nd year would be where they would challenge for the title (and they won with some stumbles).
Also the squad still has some holes to be filled which were quite evident even before the start: Bailly isn't reliable as a top CB yet and needs someone experienced alongside him, Rooney, playing Mata and Mikhitaryan as wingers instead of #10 role where they could shine, Rooney, holding midfielder needs a massive upgrade if he refuses to play Schneiderlin or Carrick (Fellaini has not been terrible so far but he should be Man Utd John Obi Mikel not Man Utd Makelele/Nemanja Matic), Rooney, lack of at least 1 true winger that can provide width, Rooney and lack of confidence.
Can Crusher
Banned
I feel like Mourinho isn't grabbing the team by the balls. After the transfer season I thought this would be the beggining of a Mou team, but it doesn't feel like one. It feels completely disjointed, disconnected.
The players simply aren't creating spaces, the passing is atrocious, defensive mistake after defensive mistake, transitions don't happen. What the hell?
Fucking bench Rooney, that guy is sucking the air of every play he's in!
The players simply aren't creating spaces, the passing is atrocious, defensive mistake after defensive mistake, transitions don't happen. What the hell?
Fucking bench Rooney, that guy is sucking the air of every play he's in!
Milik, Teodorczyk, and Lewandowski all off to great starts.
Poland going to win the Wold Cup!
single out the guy who has just returned from breaking his leg. what a manager. that'll really inspire confidence and galvanize the team.
fucking clueless. He is such a bad loser.
Can Crusher
Banned
He said there were 25 meters between the "defense" and watford's player. He didn't say "This broken ass Luke Shaw was watching TV back at the nursing home".
The media needs headlines. Because people only read headlines.
Or worse, take the information other people got from tabloid headlines as fact.
Fuck, no wonder journalism is so bad these days.
Rooney was playing the striker under LvG. And he was still shite.
We need to play 4-3-3 with a holding midfielder to free up space for Pogba to roam free. Preferably Blind with Carrick and Pogba in front of him.
We need intelligent players who can read the game in the midfield.
And Rooney needs to feck off to MLS
GoldenCrow
Member
Well there is nothing new there. He has always discussed with the press what his players did wrong. Still aways off last season, once you get the conspiracy theories and the allegations about those trying to ruin the club then it's a Mou is gonna go season.
His stint at Madrid fucked him up big time. He just doesn't seem to trust his players anymore after that.
Rooney is shit no matter where he plays. It's really just been where can we put this rotten corpse of a once great player on the pitch to do the least damage.Playing him up front has it's own set of problems. He can't get behind a defense, he can't out physical defenders, he has awful control of the ball, he has forgotten how to shoot, he doesn't make runs into the box anymore. List goes on. I wonder if It's less about Jose worrying about dropping Rooney and more that he somehow believes he is still good. He did try and buy Wayne a few years back when the decline was obvious.
One of the few things he can still do is pick a decent medium to long ranged pass. Rooney as a wide player is probably his least harmful position to the team on the pitch, but they have so many better options.
One of the few things he can still do is pick a decent medium to long ranged pass. Rooney as a wide player is probably his least harmful position to the team on the pitch, but they have so many better options.
what are you going on about? it's a quote.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ock-Watford-defeat-Premier-League-News-Gossip
he's clearly singled out one person here.
Hahaha LvG wanted three years to finish his work, he got two. Unfortunate for those idiotic senior players who supposedly wanted him gone, Jose is going to send them all packing. LvG at least protected them regardless of what they thought of him.
toythatkills
Member
Saw this earlier and thought it was very, very strange. How's he even going to earn money? He's 24! Football leaves a lot more time for concentrating on his religion than most other jobs.
Or was he just terrible and this is all an excuse?
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
what the fuck
SporeCrawler
Member
Or just get schweinsteiger in..
Yup, all problems fixed. Prem champs.
I would prefer Carrick, but either of them with say Herrera or Schneiderlin and Pogba in a 3 should be a vast improvement. Why he has been so reluctant to use Carrick or alienate Schweinsteger from the get go I have no idea.
He can't considering the huge amount of interest Bayern has shown in the player. Surely Bayern has already acquired him for 30M after such high praise.
He always does this at year 1 but not at this rate (3 players in 7 days, right?).
At Porto he threw the 2 most important players in the locker room (Vitor Baia and Jorge Costa) under the bus after 3/4 games in the club and at that time this was a manager that has won nothing unlike today. In the year after he won the UEFA Cup, championship, 2 years after won the Champions League and the PT championship with Vitor Baia and Jorge Costa in the team.
At Real Madrid he did the same in the first year with less known players like Pedro Leon at the start of the season (never played again), Granero a bunch of times and Ozil was a love-hate relation ("Best number 10" one day, "Needs to work more for the team" the game after").
This is nothing new, it is expected. Should he do this on the dressing room like SAF always did? Of course. If he did this inside the club and if indeed Luke Shaw made a mistake, then he should accept the criticism and he should try to improve. If he pouts because he was criticized, then it says more about the player than the manager. But when he does this in public, gloves are off and Mourinho deserves to be criticized. I still believe he does this because he wants the dressing room to step up and show leadership like Jorge Costa and Vitor Baia did at Porto (which was the cornerstone to what he build up and won at the club), but the big majority players don't like to be thrown under the bus in a press conference. And if Luke Shaw made a mistake, if Mhikitaryan and Lingard failed him, it's still Mourinho fault as well because he is the manager that picked them to play.
Audioboxer
Member
Why is everyone so uptight about naming individual mistakes? I'm asking in general. Insanely high paid athletes, who are human beings of course, all of a sudden cannot accept individual mistakes and criticism?
Never understood why fans need managers to be all protective "hush don't say names" whilst knowing fine well in training and what not players will be critiqued without a doubt.
Coming from the same people quick to call Rooney a fat fucking wreck it just seems a bit hypocritical. Of course I don't think there is a need to go on some naming and shaming spree, but I also don't think if asked questions it's some insane practice to say where a mistake has been made publicly.
Never understood why fans need managers to be all protective "hush don't say names" whilst knowing fine well in training and what not players will be critiqued without a doubt.
Coming from the same people quick to call Rooney a fat fucking wreck it just seems a bit hypocritical. Of course I don't think there is a need to go on some naming and shaming spree, but I also don't think if asked questions it's some insane practice to say where a mistake has been made publicly.
because it's not like a relay where someone dropped the baton. Man U were shit. Rooney was shit. Pogba was shit. Ibra was okay but didn't score. The list goes on. As a manager Jose should assume blame for the team but he's such an arrogant wanker he would rather single out on one guy for one mistake in a game where they lost 3-1. If the team is down how does it help when the manager starts to turn on the players? how does that make anyone feel better or want to improve? it creates a bad atmosphere (the same that saw him get the boot from Real and Chelsea)
Audioboxer
Member
Is that really what has happened or are you projecting to fit your narrative?
"For the second goal..."
I mean if you want to talk about the second goal, why wouldn't you give your opinion why the SECOND goal was conceded? It's not some all encompassing answer as to why the whole game was a shit performance.
But, sure, pretend like individual mistakes aren't discussed in staff/team meetings and training if you want to?
I was editing my post to better explain what I meant. Of course mistakes are talked about and you see managers drop players all the time but they usually have enough class not to publically throw them under the bus at the same time. For whatever reason Jose's style seems to be very aggressive and very public like with Schweinsteiger. Most people look past it when he's winning but when he's losing it really just highlights how poor he is in dealing with certain situations. Sometimes that's fine but sometimes he never recovers (like at Real and Chelsea)
McMoneyman
Member
Think its harder nowadays to blame players and stuff. Young footballers these days, they're like schoolkids. Soft as fuck, you gotta be all nicey nicey to them to keep them on your side.
That is a big part of the problem but it's still the manager job to adapt to the current reality. You aren't going to train 11 Zlatan or John Terry, you might have 1 Zlatan and 10 Hazard's nowadays. During his Porto stint this strategy of going after the players publicly worked because he had a bunch of players that were tough like Vitor Baia, Jorge Costa and Costinha that owned the locker room. If Mourinho had Gary Neville, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and Paul Scholes on the locker room, this tactic would work. With Smalling, Fellaini, Pogba and Martial? Not so much.
It's even more hilarious when those soft as charmin players can't handle any criticism despite playing like amateurs but then go to the press throw the manager under the bus at the end and/or after they are fired.
EDIT - Or maybe Mourinho stopped trusting his players after one of "his close players" Pepe betrayed him at Real Madrid throwing him under the bus and joining the "Casillas side" even after Mourinho saved him from being sold from Real Madrid like Florentino wanted after the tried to kill an opponent the year before he joined Real.
Audioboxer
Member
Saying someone made one mistake leading to a goal is not simply throwing someone under the bus?
I mean, arguments about Jose aside, let's get a grip and accept when talking about a goal you conceded publicly it should not be an issue to say what went wrong/if someone was to blame. No, as I said not everyone needs constantly named and shamed, but it is what it is on occasions. We instantly look to pundits to analyze games and mistakes? Fans go fucking HAM on players during and after games for mistakes and/or performance, but it's oh such shocking if a manager is honest about one incident?
Footballers feelings should be able to handle some criticism especially if there is truth in it.
Now I'll go page some Liverpool fans to talk about Moreno.
GoldenCrow
Member
Worked like that for Koeman with Barkley last week.
Great post. I agree.
They can take the criticism in private, they're used to getting an earful in the dressing room with the understanding that it doesn't leave those 4 walls. If a player or the manager does it in public that's a taboo that's been broken and the other players will close ranks and turn on whoever does that because they know any one of them could be next. It's one of the quickest ways a player can become a pariah or a manager can lose the dressing room.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
He should be criticising the player in private, not publicly.
Anyways, all I said was if I was Luke Shaw, I'd work my socks off to get back to full fitness and prove the man wrong.
I'd probably try and leave Utd too
Audioboxer
Member
Jeez, holy hyperbole batman. Some of the highest paid well off athletes and we think they should be encouraged to have bitch fits and leave a club because someone said (oh no their manager!) in an analysis of a goal they made a mistake? Not even really harsh words, just a criticism which has some merit?
I mean I guess I understand why players become one man wrecking balls these days and manage to destroy a club from the inside because of fame, celebrity status and having egos so inflated we could all go for a river raft on them.
What I don't understand is why the same fans ready to get vitriolic and lambaste a player on match day/reflection are running to white knight defence some fairly benign explanations as to why a goal may have been conceded.
Right now everyone in that Man Utd squad needs a dressing down and if the manager brings some of that into the public to kick fuck out of their attitudes and efforts as of late so be it. Doesn't mean it needs to be done every week but right now? I think most Man Utd fans will be happy at anyone calling a spade a spade in public, even the manager.
Because nobody likes being publicly scapegoated by their boss. It doesn't matter how much someone is being paid or where they work. It's not nice. Having your boss blame you on camera and have that be broadcasted all over the world and translated into dozens of languages is humiliating. It's not footballers being prima donnas.
In all my years going to watch Arsenal I have never booed a player nor the team so no hypocrisy here.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
I wouldn't leave the club because of Jose, I'd leave the club because it's going nowhere
I thought Shaw played alright. If Jose want's to target anyone, it should be Rooney. What a joke he's become, it's sad.
Sir Alex Ferguson never did it for the simple reason that players aren't stupid, if they've had a bad game, they know about it. Airing it in public as opposed to correcting it in private/on the training ground is a futile exercise.