• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Football Thread |OT20| What's that smell?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Arnie

Member
I think that the entire AAA development process is utterly bloated from top to bottom. It is unsustainable if you need CoD/FIFA sales numbers to prosper. The system seems fundamentally broken from a really basic numbers point of view, and the idea that consumers need give up their rights because dev houses can't run their fucking ships properly is unacceptable on any level you wish to name.

Well that's the state that it's in.

So you and the rest of gaming side can whinge and moan and deplore reality or you can at least give some credence to a policy that'll bring some slight health to the madness.

I reckon you'll all carry on with the former, until the gaming industry wipes itself out and you're all sat there in the rubble wondering how it happened. Or alternatively you'll all continue playing loads of cool shit on Steam; a system where you can't trade games in or borrow them off your friends.
 

Scum

Junior Member
Health of the industry... there's an interesting one. An industry that can't support itself through ordinary sales practices that every other industry is subject to. If there was anything that ever met the definition of 'unsustainable' it would be that, no?

"I've spent a £100 million budget on development and marketing and have decided to sell my product at £40 a pop and yet I can't break even overall without at least 4 million sales worldwide."

That's your fucking problem right there, not used games.

I can't wait for EA to announce $70 games at E3.
 
Yes. I'll take Independiente Santa Fe's keeper over him. Valdes is the equivalent of a system quarterback at his position.

So you're saying Valdes is the equivalent of Matt Ryan? :p

You also have to remember that Monaco are after more than just quality, Valdes is a name people know and Monaco like that.
 

AndresON777

shooting blanks
So you're saying Valdes is the equivalent of Matt Ryan? :p

You also have to remember that Monaco are after more than just quality, Valdes is a name people know and Monaco like that.

Yep. Matt Ryan is shit. I told you he's got a weak arm =p

I know, they want a name. I'd rather have Pepe Reyna
 
Well that's the state that it's in.

So you and the rest of gaming side can whinge and moan and deplore reality or you can at least give some credence to a policy that'll bring some slight health to the madness.

I reckon you'll all carry on with the former, until the gaming industry wipes itself out and you're all sat there in the rubble wondering how it happened. Or alternatively you'll all continue playing loads of cool shit on Steam; a system where you can't trade games in or borrow them off your friends.

I'm not saying my complaints will change anything, but I don't fancy blithely sitting there saying 'ok' while the games industry declares that it needs special legal dispensation to wring more money out of their customers because they don't understand the requirement to balance the cost of a product against the price of sale - something every other competent businessman on the planet has managed to deal with.

You raise a fair point about Steam though - they are not in compliance with the law. The law requires them to allow their customers to transfer their licence. I suspect the reason there's not been lawsuits yet is because they've either settled behind the scenes or they've managed to placate their customers by offering such low prices.
 

FootballFan

Member
Ugh some of the jealousy is almost disgusting.

Now to wait for the countless Madridistas "we didn't want him anyway". lol

qtjT6.gif
 

jtb

Banned
Steam is a walled garden, just like iOS, just like DRM-era iTunes (once upon a time), just like Xbone will be. It's not a consumer rights issue because users consent to the rules of that particular environment when they sign the ToS and expressly waive their would-be property rights. If you don't want to think of it as goods, fine—just think of it as an extended rental where you don't actually "own" the product (see: paying a ticket to watch a movie). It doesn't really make much of a difference.
 

nemesun

Member
:lol I love reading through Fuse threads. Always goes down the same route. Not that I'm surprised, the game looks like uninspiring shite.
8byte lying through his teeth. He's saying he only attended one EA event, but I've been going through his post history and in my count he has attended at least 3 events. effin' embarrassing.
 

Arnie

Member
I'm not saying my complaints will change anything, but I don't fancy blithely sitting there saying 'ok' while the games industry declares that it needs special legal dispensation to wring more money out of their customers because they don't understand the requirement to balance the cost of a product against the price of sale - something every other competent businessman on the planet has managed to deal with.

You raise a fair point about Steam though - they are not in compliance with the law. The law requires them to allow their customers to transfer their licence. I suspect the reason there's not been lawsuits yet is because they've either settled behind the scenes or they've managed to placate their customers by offering such low prices.

Arnie, anti-consumer policies won't help revigorate the industry. They won't help expanding the market (for traditional games), nor will they solve or hide the industry's fundamental problems.

Interfering with used sales are not a problem per se (although I'm no fan of it), but I doubt the industry will take the steps necessary to adapt accordingly. You need the stick and the carrot.

I agree that there are way too many emotions at Gaming currently and that there's way too much hyperbole. It's not the end of the world, it's not the shittiest reveal of all time, nor is PS4 the "king of hardcore gamers". But all that bullshit left aside, used games play an important role in keeping money in the market. They allow people to get rid of old games to buy new ones, whereas others can now get a cheaper used copy, when else they would've probably waited for a price drop. They're also fundamental for some important retailers like Gamestop.

About to go to bed so I'm not going to post a large reply.

Yes the industry's a financial mess. Used games contribute in some way (be it large or small) to this. I would rather see a policy that corrects this than not, even if it means I can't borrow my friends copy of Assassins Creed. I don't think new games are even that expensive, I usually buy everything new for about £20 after a few weeks. I'll make an exception for a game I really want, like Bioshock.

I didn't really care about the online pass.

Lunchbox OTs are so good.

Steam is a walled garden, just like iOS, just like DRM-era iTunes (once upon a time), just like Xbone will be. It's not a consumer rights issue because users consent to the rules of that particular environment when they sign the ToS and expressly waive their would-be property rights. If you don't want to think of it as goods, fine—just think of it as an extended rental where you don't actually "own" the product (see: paying a ticket to watch a movie). It doesn't really make much of a difference.
Spot on.

I'm not buying the XB1, but those crying and getting overly emotional about it are grating me no end. I guarantee that half of them have Steam accounts.
 

nemesun

Member
I wonder how many Bayern viral marketer we have in this very thread alone. Someone needs to fess up today. You all hear? My fire shall purge you all.
 
So FootballFan what are you going to do when Neymar chooses to join Madrid instead? Are you going to pretend that you weren't trying to hype him up right now?
 
What do you mean 'where do you draw the line'? No, the retailer should get money from the sale because they're enabling it, just like they should from all sales, but I don't think it's fair for developers and publishers to receive no cut whatsoever. So many of you seem to think that's acceptable, though.

How does me saying sideways comparisons are defunct stop me from outlining my specific argument?

Used car sales are completely different. Games are disposable entertainment. If you go into a shop and see a used game for a few quid cheaper than a new one you're just going to buy that, because ultimately it doesn't matter. That logic doesn't translate to the car industry because cars aren't disposable purchases that are bought for a few hours of fun. The draw for a used sale isn't as large, and used sales aren't crippling car manufacturers like they are in the games industry.

It's wrong because it affects the games publishers are willing to make.

If games don't make much money any more then publishers aren't going to take risks. If the industry was healthier they might, and thus this policy would make the industry healthier (that's a fact).

So go and draw up some hypothetical argument about a future where the industry's healthier whilst preserving used game sales and the borrowing of games. Great, I'd sign up to that, too. But as it stands that doesn't exist and this is the next best option.

In terms of drawing the line I was talking about everything. But your criteria is price? Come on. You seem to be taking a very anecdotal view (I hope that's the right term) on this. You should be thinking more about the legal basis of what you're suggesting.

Used game sales aren't crippling the industry. Financial recklessness and poorly run developers/publishers are doing that. (It's like the argument that every single player game needs a multiplayer element so people won't sell the game as soon as they've finished it, or in other words cutting off your nose to spite your face). You think publishers making more money will make them more likely to take risks. Maybe. That generally goes for most industries. But often the games that take the most risks are the ones with the smallest budgets, which shows you don't need millions of dollars more in revenue to do so. Meanwhile you have Activision making ridiculous sums from the Call of Duty series, and their creative risk seems limited to making movie-licensed games. So what is this the next best option for? Publishers to boost their financials? Yes. Publishers to take more risks? Probably not. And at the expense of the consumer? Definitely.

edit: And the Steam argument is strange because no one is saying the fact that you can't sell the licenses you own is a good thing. It's not a good thing. As Laboured said, why don't people kick up more of a fuss? Because Valve do an awful lot of good for gaming as well.
 

FootballFan

Member
You mean Moutinho right? right?

No because we already did a pre-installment of 20m, or that is what the rumours say.

Even if it was as much as Moutinho + James combined, still a bargain. Anything under 90m was a bargain.

Neymar - Most marketable athlete in the world. Not my words. Words from professional analysers.


So FootballFan what are you going to do when Neymar chooses to join Madrid instead? Are you going to pretend that you weren't trying to hype him up right now?

...?? If he joins Madrid then I won't give a fuck and "lol Robinho 2.0" all day.
 

Carbonox

Member
8byte lying through his teeth. He's saying he only attended one EA event, but I've been going through his post history and in my count he has attended at least 3 events. effin' embarrassing.

I see Skidd getting involved now. He's an Insomniac forum moderator or was one (plus his post history is telling), so he'd be another one trying to fight the good fight for Insomniac.
 
No because we already did a pre-installment of 20m, or that is what the rumours say.

Even if it was as much as Moutinho + James combined, still a bargain. Anything under 90m was a bargain.

Neymar - Most marketable athlete in the world. Not my words. Words from professional analysers.




...?? If he joins Madrid then I won't give a fuck and "lol Robinho 2.0" all day.

iklvVFhYeO5HH.gif
 

FootballFan

Member
So FootballFan what are you going to do when Neymar chooses to join Madrid instead?

Oh man, I would pay just to witness this.. :lol :lol

Surprise surprise. A Madridista would pay to have Neymar play for Madrid.

This is what I mean, then when it happens. Letters will claim "I didn't want him to play and steal Ronaldo's spotlight anyway".

Ridiculous.

edit
Oh man all the replies. :lol you guys.
 

AndresON777

shooting blanks
What happened with him anyway Andres? He seemed to have a couple really good months at the beginning of the season but then he kinda faded away. I guess it's in his pecho frio blood.

He hurt his hamstring earlier in the year. i guess it happens to all great players on roids though. he is only 21 and he has a great future ahead of him. what's funny is that he's married to our keeper's younger sister. i want a new keeper though
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom