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Football Thread |OT21| Robben learns to score in finals three years late

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G

GorillaJu

Member
Vivalaraza said:
City's youth policy is going to be something like - yeah if you're really really good and as good as the players we can pay £30m to buy then sure you can play in the first team otherwise get fucked.

A commitment to youth does ring hollow if you're commitment is on hold. Why not start now? City have some decent young talents currently, none of them are even close to the first team.

I think City fans don't really appreciate there is another aspect of homegrown talent aside from just how good they are at football. There's an affinity and appreciation for young talent and giving it a chance to shine which IMO isn't something Sheikh Mansour's Man City care about - not yet anyways.
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Well, to be fair they weren't in any position to play their youth players last year. Their first team really struggled in every game and despite that they ended up in 2nd place with a good point total, many of those points came from late winners after long battles by their best XI.

United had some good chances to play their younger players - games where they were already two or three goals up early on. City never really had an abundance of opportunities. When your back is to the wall, you need to play your best players, and City had their back to the wall for most of the season.
 
Y

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
Galliani on Tevez “I would be a little disappointed if he was to go to Juve seeing the relationship we have with him..”
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Zabojnik said:
So who's getting Belhanda?
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I know who's not getting him.

BMAWAZ9CUAELI8e.jpg
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3

3Sixty

Member
odd_morsel said:
Well, to be fair they weren't in any position to play their youth players last year. Their first team really struggled in every game and despite that they ended up in 2nd place with a good point total, many of those points came from late winners after long battles by their best XI.

United had some good chances to play their younger players - games where they were already two or three goals up early on. City never really had an abundance of opportunities. When your back is to the wall, you need to play your best players, and City had their back to the wall for most of the season.
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Don't really buy that.

If you're good enough you play.

Uniteds sustained commitment to youth players is the difference.

Were as city by a new squad every year.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
odd_morsel said:
Well, to be fair they weren't in any position to play their youth players last year. Their first team really struggled in every game and despite that they ended up in 2nd place with a good point total, many of those points came from late winners after long battles by their best XI.

United had some good chances to play their younger players - games where they were already two or three goals up early on. City never really had an abundance of opportunities. When your back is to the wall, you need to play your best players, and City had their back to the wall for most of the season.
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We hardly ever brought younger players on when we were winning handsomely. Most of our u21 team didn't play any first team minutes apart from Nick Powell.

But last year Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley were put into the first team and played PL matches start to finish. That's a true commitment to youth IMO. Other clubs do and have done similar things, I'm not saying United are some kind of shining light although yes I am proud of our record.

It's an absolute cop out to say oh those guys will get their chance when our 25 year olds get old and slow. If you want to give young players a chance to succeed then give it to them now. City have a reputable youth system and it has produced good players over the last decade.

Nobody is saying they have to put 3/4 young players into the first team. City will barely even put one in there for half an hour.

Also for the record - City actually won more games by comfortable margins than United who only won by more than 2 goals 4/5 times all season I believe.
 
P

pulsemyne

Member
Ushojax said:
Doesn't really surprise me. Laudrup will want to push on, without transfer funds it would be impossible for him to better what they did last season. I was surprised he signed that contract extension in the first place.
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Given the poor form we were in after the cup final I'm wouldn't be horribly disappointed. Also him saying Swansea needed to invest 200million in players was a touch crazy. Swansea do have some money to spend (we are one of the only clubs that makes money) but the chairman and others are not willing to go into the red when they have shown that buying smart can net you some good players.
If he does go then I do wonder who will replace him. We would need someone who would play the team the same style as we have become used to.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
3Sixty said:
Don't really buy that.

If you're good enough you play.

Uniteds sustained commitment to youth players is the difference.

Were as city by a new squad every year.
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Don't buy what? Whether or not you buy it, it's true. I'm not saying that they have a good youth policy or that they have an equal youth policy with United or Arsenal. I'm just saying that we really don't have any evidence to judge them by because their goal is simply to win the title and with their performance level often being poor, they never had a chance to bring on young players outside of Nastasic, who was really good.

If they had hit their stride, had a decent point lead over United (when they really should have), then they could have played players like Sinclair, Rodwell, or Suarez more often. Mancini may not ever have opted to do that - he seems the type to always rely on his experienced players, like Dalglish persisting with Downing and Adam regardless of how poor they were. But like I said, the opportunity never came up regardless.

Vivalaraza said:
We hardly ever brought younger players on when we were winning handsomely. Most of our u21 team didn't play any first team minutes apart from Nick Powell.

But last year Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley were put into the first team and played PL matches start to finish. That's a true commitment to youth IMO. Other clubs do and have done similar things, I'm not saying United are some kind of shining light although yes I am proud of our record.

It's an absolute cop out to say oh those guys will get their chance when our 25 year olds get old and slow. If you want to give young players a chance to succeed then give it to them now. City have a reputable youth system and it has produced good players over the last decade.

Nobody is saying they have to put 3/4 young players into the first team. City will barely even put one in there for half an hour.

Also for the record - City actually won more games by comfortable margins than United who only won by more than 2 goals 4/5 times all season I believe.
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Yeah, and while it's only one player, Nastasic played 90 minutes beginning to end for much of City's season. That's a big responsibility given to a very young player. Micah Richards and Jack Rodwell were injured for most of the season.

As for your last line, that surprises me to hear that. I felt like United had a lot of games where they were up 2, 3 sometimes 4 goals by half-time. Yes, more often then not the second half performance was drab and they conceded one or two, reducing the margins. City scored a shit load of late goals though, iirc.
 
M

Meier

Member
I'd like us to play more youth players. There is a lot of talent in the EDS and I hope they don't all leave before they get on the pitch with the first team.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
odd_morsel said:
Don't buy what? Whether or not you buy it, it's true. I'm not saying that they have a good youth policy or that they have an equal youth policy with United or Arsenal. I'm just saying that we really don't have any evidence to judge them by because their goal is simply to win the title and with their performance level often being poor, they never had a chance to bring on young players outside of Nastasic, who was really good.

If they had hit their stride, had a decent point lead over United (when they really should have), then they could have played players like Sinclair, Rodwell, or Suarez more often. Mancini may not ever have opted to do that - he seems the type to always rely on his experienced players, like Dalglish persisting with Downing and Adam regardless of how poor they were. But like I said, the opportunity never came up regardless.



Yeah, and while it's only one player, Nastasic played 90 minutes beginning to end for much of City's season. That's a big responsibility given to a very young player. Micah Richards and Jack Rodwell were injured for most of the season.

As for your last line, that surprises me to hear that. I felt like United had a lot of games where they were up 2, 3 sometimes 4 goals by half-time. Yes, more often then not the second half performance was drab and they conceded one or two, reducing the margins. City scored a shit load of late goals though, iirc.
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Nastasic was a £12m signing. Does not count.

He is not homegrown. City as of yet haven't backed up their promises about developing their own players at all.
 
C

Clegg

Member
Didn't City's U21's finish second last in their league table?

That doesn't necessarily mean the players are poor but it looks like they have problems at that age level.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Vivalaraza said:
Nastasic was a £12m signing. Does not count.

He is not homegrown. City as of yet haven't backed up their promises about developing their own players at all.
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Didn't they just restructure their academy last year (or two years ago)? Think you're being slightly unreasonable about the time frame here.

Clegg said:
Didn't City's U21's finish second last in their league table?

That doesn't necessarily mean the players are poor but it looks like they have problems at that age level.
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Yes, they did very poorly, though I think most people will recognize that winning at youth level is only a secondary goal. Fostering and developing talent is the primary motive. I didn't watch their U21s at any point over the last year so I have no idea how they did on that front.
 
C

Clegg

Member
odd_morsel said:
Yes, they did very poorly, though I think most people will recognize that winning at youth level is only a secondary goal. Fostering and developing talent is the primary motive. I didn't watch their U21s at any point over the last year so I have no idea how they did on that front.
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Developing the players skills is the main goal of these underage competitions. But its still a worry if your players finish second from last in your league. To me it suggests that the players either aren't good enough or haven't been coached properly.
 
G

Gareth Bale

Member
Meier said:
I'd like us to play more youth players. There is a lot of talent in the EDS and I hope they don't all leave before they get on the pitch with the first team.
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If it's just youth players you bought though, it's not really the same.

Interesting question actually, who was the last academy graduate at City/United from Manchester or the surrounding area to break into the first team? Sturridge? Welbeck?
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Gareth Bale said:
If it's just youth players you bought though, it's not really the same.

Interesting question actually, who was the last academy graduate at City/United from Manchester or the surrounding area to break into the first team? Sturridge? Welbeck?
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Welbeck or Cleverley I guess. Both only really came into the first team last season.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Clegg said:
Developing the players skills is the main goal of these underage competitions. But its still a worry if your players finish second from last in your league. To me it suggests that the players either aren't good enough or haven't been coached properly.
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Yeah, there's got to be some pretty big question marks from the managerial staff there. I think that's one of the reasons why they wanted to re-work things from the top down by bringing in a technical director and sporting director, or whatever titles they gave Begiristain and Soriano. The self-proclaimed elite development squad, not even making into the elite group is lol-worthy, facepalm-worthy, what have you.

Vivalaraza said:
Welbeck or Cleverley I guess. Both only really came into the first team last season.
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Importantly, they both had a lot of time out on loan, though. And Cleverley isn't exactly a 19 year old who just got thrust into the first team, he's like 24 now, right? United do this with their talents - they really manage them intelligently. That's one thing City, among other clubs, could learn to do.
 
C

Clegg

Member
Gareth Bale said:
If it's just youth players you bought though, it's not really the same.

Interesting question actually, who was the last academy graduate at City/United from Manchester or the surrounding area to break into the first team? Sturridge?
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Welbeck maybe? He's been in and around United's first team squad since he was 20.

Sturridge left City before he became a regular. He wasn't really a regular at Chelsea either.
 
M

Meier

Member
Clegg said:
Developing the players skills is the main goal of these underage competitions. But its still a worry if your players finish second from last in your league. To me it suggests that the players either aren't good enough or haven't been coached properly.
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Well, the coach who Mancini brought in last season is out so whether or not that is it may be discovered in part next season. City have a number of good young kids (16-18) that are playing for the U-18 team but many were signed from abroad. Jules Ntcham, Jose Angel Pozo and Mathias Bossaerts are guys who I think will play with someone's first team in time. Suarez, Rony Lopes, Guidetti, Karim Rekik, Abdul Razak, Abdi Ibrahim and some others are the EDS/sometimes 1st team players who are the brightest prospects.

Gareth Bale said:
If it's just youth players you bought though, it's not really the same.

Interesting question actually, who was the last academy graduate at City/United from Manchester or the surrounding area to break into the first team? Sturridge? Welbeck?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manche...#Academy_graduates_.281998.E2.80.93present.29

For City, as far as being a regular, yeah, it's Sturridge. He played 26 games his final year with the team and would have continued to get more minutes you'd have to think. Abdul Razak has played the most for City of the recent youth players. Guidetti, Vladimír Weiss and Kasper Schmeichel are probably the most prolific Academy graduates since Sturridge.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Meier said:
Well, the coach who Mancini brought in last season is out so whether or not that is it may be discovered in part next season. City have a number of good young kids (16-18) that are playing for the U-18 team but many were signed from abroad. Jules Ntcham, Jose Angel Pozo and Mathias Bossaerts are guys who I think will play with someone's first team in time. Suarez, Rony Lopes, Guidetti, Karim Rekik, Abdul Razak, Abdi Ibrahim and some others are the EDS/sometimes 1st team players who are the brightest prospects.
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I'm not being facetious here, but I'm curious - do you know if any of those qualify as homegrown?
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
odd_morsel said:
That TitanFall leak is pretty big. I'm sure that was set to be a huge reveal at E3. Will certainly hit all the big vg sites soon.
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So I was wrong on three counts, two of which are linked

1) Its is Xbox exclusive
2) It is literally about Titans
3) I wouldn't have bought it anyway because of 2)
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Look at this sexy motherfucker. Already wearing black & white. <3 Juventus Stadium female attendance increase: +30%

llorente2.gif


Most beautiful team in the world.
 
M

Meier

Member
odd_morsel said:
I'm not being facetious here, but I'm curious - do you know if any of those qualify as homegrown?
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Not sure but possibly. I think the requirement is to train for 3 years before age 18 so Lopes should qualify as he came in at 15. Ntcham was 15 as well I believe. Pozo maybe 16.

Edit: Pozo was 15 as well, so he may end up being a HG player.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
So I was wrong on three counts, two of which are linked

1) Its is Xbox exclusive
2) It is literally about Titans
3) I wouldn't have bought it anyway because of 2)
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It doesn't sound interesting to me at all, but I'm not the target for these kinds of games. I almost never enjoy the "big shooters" except for Valve-developed ones.

Uncharted: good series, made enjoyable by the graphics, music, characters and story. Don't really enjoy the combat too much.
Bioshock, Infinite: same as the above
COD, Halo, Battlefield: Don't give any fucks. Halo is my favorite of those but I never had an Xbox and I don't like the games enough to buy one for it.

Vanquish: my kind of shooter

Zabojnik said:
odd_morsel, I need your input on Llorente's haircut.
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Haha. Well it looks straight out of the 70s, don't you think? But it looks good on him. Think he can probably pull in more pussy in an hour than I get in a decade regardless of a hair cut though, such is his studliness
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
odd_morsel said:
Haha. Well it looks straight out of the 70s, don't you think? But it looks good on him. Think he can probably pull in more pussy in an hour than I get in a decade regardless of a hair cut though, such is his studliness
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You're selling yourself short, I'm sure. <3

We have to keep Matri now. Principino, Matri, Llorente. I wouldn't mind participating in this awesome foursome.
 
M

Meier

Member
I didn't realize the U-21 Euros only has 8 teams. I was looking at Germany's squad and it seems like they're surprisingly short on known commodities.
 
M

Meier

Member
Zabojnik said:
1365158983_583.jpg


http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/charlton-heston-laughing-gif.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

Looks like a pretty good squad if they can pull it off, but that would require a lot of transfers. They'd be damn good in FIFA 14 at the very least! Would they try and get Higuain in a swap for Cavani or something?
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T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Jesus, there are 2 distinct and equally annoying groups in TLoU review thread

Group 1: Wah, Polygon, wah Gamespot. Not that I've played it.
Group 2: No chance its that good, most overrated game of all time. Not that I've played it.


Reminds me of a post on RAWK in the Aspas thread that basically amounted to 'I've never seen him play, but Aspas is not good enough for us, not an exciting transfer, we're moving in the wrong direction.'


Speaking of Aspas, where the fuck is my Papa?
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Meier said:
Looks like a pretty good squad if they can pull it off, but that would require a lot of transfers. They'd be damn good in FIFA 14 at the very least! Would they try and get Higuain in a swap for Cavani or something?
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It's just wishful thinking from a Napoli fan/journo. :p If De Laurentiis keeps insisting on that 50M€ (or thereabouts) release clause ... I have feeling Cavani might be staying.
 
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