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[jarrod]

xbox has way more great games than GC, I don't thats debatable at all really.

I dunno, they seem pretty even depending on tastes. If you're into wacky Nintendo, GameCube's obviously better. If you're into PC hand-me downs, Xbox is obviously better. Overall though, they're pretty similar, just with Xbox having an edge in western games and GameCube having an edge in eastern.

What's not debatable is PS2 destroying both (combined even) in terms of quantitiy of great games.

 

[jarrod]

:lol Another laughable notion...

Not at all, Dreamcast is by a wide margin the most unnecessary major console ever birthed. SEGA totally deserved what they got with it. What's "laughable" is that it lasted as long as it did.

 

[malek4980]

If there's a system held in high regard for unknown reason it's the fucking Saturn.

 

[Shogun]

Sega Apologists - Now that Sega doesn't make consoles they beat even Nintendo in terms of nostalgia. Therefore the 32X, American Saturn, and of course the Sega CD are the golden mourned past. Sewer Shark was a cultural revolution.

 

[Shinobi]

Not at all, Dreamcast is by a wide margin the most unnecessary major console ever birthed. SEGA totally deserved what they got with it. What's "laughable" is that it lasted as long as it did.

:lol Okay, now you're just sounding like an idiot...

Sega Apologists - Now that Sega doesn't make consoles they beat even Nintendo in terms of nostalgia. Therefore the 32X, American Saturn, and of course the Sega CD are the golden mourned past. Sewer Shark was a cultural revolution.

Yeah, and I'm sure the NBots hold up the Virtual Boy as an example of innovative brilliance. :lol Seriously, why not point out all the Sega fans who hold up the Sega CD and 32X as stellar platforms? 'Cause they've escaped my view.

And Sewer Shark was a Sony game, so we'd have to hate it now anyway.

 

[Fantasmo]

Too much N64 appreciation, not enough GC.

I'll offer my feelings on the matter.

While N64 had a few standouts, the system was plagued by a terrible MIX of hardware.

Poor MIDI music; oftentimes with instrument quality worse than SNES. Perfect case in point, Lttp vs OoT.

Horrible, low-res textures mixed with sub 20fps framerates and bad filtering. After a generation of high quality graphics, great sound, and constant 60fps gaming in SNES, we end up here (blah!). The cartridge format prevented awesome soundtracks, continuing a lack of high quality sound FX and full speech, and somehow still managing to seem like loadtime exists.

A great analog stick and Z trigger marred by an otherwise uncomfortable cheap feeling controller design.

I mean shit, at the time N64 was out, we had ourselves amazing 3dFX Voodoo chipset graphics, massive storage, high quality music, high quality SFX, high speed CD-ROMs on PCs.

Things were fast, pretty, and enjoyable to the ears; all throughout the transition to 3d I found myself always wanting graphics sacrificed for framerate and with N64 I found myself struggling to aim, drive, or jump properly with framey games.

PS1 had its own share of junk at the time, and definitely its own bad graphic effects, but at least some things were done very well... depite the raw nature of its polygons, the blockbuster games often stayed around 30fps, the soundtracks made up for the graphics, the textures could often be more diverse, the scenes more complex, and it seemed to throw around more effects.

Finally, the nail in the coffin -- $60-80 games.

Gamecube really fixed every single problem that N64 had. It's a shame it placed third in the heart of consumers.

 

[jarrod]

If there's a system held in high regard for unknown reason it's the fucking Saturn.

I think the reason would probably be SEGA's best games ever, plus top notch Japanese 3rd party support (Capcom, SNK, Hudson, Konami, Atlus, Bandai, Sammy, GameArts, Treasure, Tecmo, Tecnosoft, Chunsoft, Takara, Banpresto, Sting, Psyiko, etc). Sure things dried up in the west, but if you imported regularly then Saturn was the perfect marriage of old world 2D and new world 3D. Reminds me of DS actually.

 

[jarrod]

:lol Okay, now you're just sounding like an idiot...

It's true, if only in retrospect. Why bother with a Dreamcast when all it's great games are available on other platforms with more to offer? DC was a serious waste of time for all parties involved.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I'm one of the Nintendo fans that actually preferred the Gamecube to the N64. Reasons being...

-Top notch Nintendo games. I really enjoyed Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, despite the hatred they recieved from many N64 gamers.
-Better framerates.
-Better third party support. Despite popular belief, the Gamecube got MOST of the good third party games and some nice exclusives.
-I loved the GCN controller. It wasn't perfect but I've never held a more comfortable controller.

I think many people are seeing the past with rose-tinted glasses. With the 64 there was barely any third party support and some of the big name games had shocking framerates....tolerable or not.

The N64 was great because it introduced many new genres into gaming with fresh ideas that hadn't been seen before. The Gamecube could never hope to do the same.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah, and I'm sure the NBots hold up the Virtual Boy as an example of innovative brilliance. :lol Seriously, why not point out all the Sega fans who hold up the Sega CD and 32X as stellar platforms? 'Cause they've escaped my view.

And Sewer Shark was a Sony game, so we'd have to hate it now anyway.

Yeah the Sewer Shark bit and the 32X/SegaCD love are both overstatement for comedic effect. My main point is that Saturn really didn't have the games power, at least in the US to give it the lofty status that it's looking for. And though I loved the Dreamcast, it is canonized as a veritable saint these days. It had alot of great games, but it wasn't best console ever.

 

[Gio_CoD]

The Saturn was the worst console ever released.

 

[Farmboy]

I think Mario 64 > Mario Sunshine and OoT > Wind Waker, but IMO it isn't the ">>>> OMG Nintendo's completely lost it!"-type fall in quality some claim it is. But then, I prefer the 2D-installments anyway. I also haven't loved a Rare title since Snake, Rattle & Roll, so they don't boost the N64-profile much for me.

Meanwhile, Metroid Prime is an exceptional title that can certainly hold its own compared to OoT, SM64 and Lylat Wars (which are my favorite N64 games). I tend to think of Resident Evil 4, Killer7, Viewtiful Joe and Super Monkey Ball as (excellent) Cube-titles as well. Note that I think it's great that they were ported -- but it's fair to count them in the Cube-column when arguing Cube vs. N64. Especially since carbon-copy multiplatform versions of the same game were much less prominent in previous generations. That said, counting King Kong or The Sands of Time would be pushing it (I'd use 'original platform it was released on' as a criterion here).

I also have a soft spot for Pikmin, DK: Jungle Beat, Four Swords Adventures, Pac-Man Vs., Wario Ware GC and F-Zero GX, to name but a few. And I expect Twilight Princess to be pretty darn good. Yep, GC > N64 for me.

Wait... what was the question?

 

[Grug]

The Saturn was the worst console ever released.

Jaguarowned

 

[Gio_CoD]

Jaguarowned

The Saturn was the third worst console ever released. Jaguar and Virtual Boy share the top spot.

 

[jarrod]

I'd actually say all the current gen consoles missed the mark to a degree...

Saturn >>> Dreamcast

PlayStation >>> PlayStation 2

Nintendo 64 >>> GameCube


...as usual, only Game Boy got it right...


Game Boy Color <<< Game Boy Advance

 

[Shogun]

More centric to the point I do think that now that the Man-Cube wars are over and we have moved onto PS3 Revolution treesitty debates, we can give the sturdy little box it's due.

 

[PhoenixDark]

If there's a system held in high regard for unknown reason it's the fucking Saturn.

QFT

When I was a child, the Saturn raped me like Michael Jackson raped me.

My dad convinced me that it was a better system than the PS1 because it was cheaper, and I went along. Worse gaming decision of my entire career. Outside of the brilliance that is Astal, there isn't much for the Saturn worth anyone's time. Piece of trash. I'm still pissed at Sega over that tripe.

 

[Shogun]

The Saturn was the third worst console ever released. Jaguar and Virtual Boy share the top spot.

Three D Oh! Three D Oh! Three De Oh!

 

[Grug]

Did anyone here own a Jaguar?

 

[GitarooMan]

I'm one of the Nintendo fans that actually preferred the Gamecube to the N64. Reasons being...

-Top notch Nintendo games. I really enjoyed Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, despite the hatred they recieved from many N64 gamers.
-Better framerates.
-Better third party support. Despite popular belief, the Gamecube got MOST of the good third party games and some nice exclusives.
-I loved the GCN controller. It wasn't perfect but I've never held a more comfortable controller.

I think many people are seeing the past with rose-tinted glasses. There was barely any third party support and some of the big name games had shocking framerates....tolerable or not.

The N64 was great because it introduced many new genres into gaming with fresh ideas that hadn't been seen before. The Gamecube could never hope to do the same.

I think for a lot of people it comes down to the context in which they played the system. For multi-console owners who tend to buy every major system (like myself), the third-party support on the GC was nearly irrelevent (most third-party ports were better IMO on Xbox, with a few exceptions like SCII, etc.)

I also think that while N64 undoubtedly had it's share of dry spells, nothing matched this Christmas season on GC. From November on, the only exclusive game I can think of being released is Mario Strikers. And outside of Zelda, 06 looks really soft. I would venture to say in a poll that for multi-console owners most would say N64 > GC. For single console most owners GC > N64. What that means I guess IMO is that Nintendo treated it's loyal single console owners better, but failed to compete as well in the multi-console context.

As far as the framerate issue, it's a problem, but IMO didn't take away too much from enjoying classics at the time like BK, DKR, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, OOT (although it got a bit much in Banjo-Tooie where Rare pushed it a bit).

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

The Saturn was the third worst console ever released. Jaguar and Virtual Boy share the top spot.

I think you forgot about 3DO, Amiga CD32 and Nuon.....

 

[Shogun]

Did anyone here own a Jaguar?

I wonder how we might determine that, we could take a survey and then... do the math?

 

[jarrod]

Saturn was 2D fighter/shooter heaven. Moreso than any other machine before or since really. Throw in an excellent RPG library, stunning (at the time) SEGA arcade ports and a nice selection games in other genres (platformers, puzzlers, simulations, racers, etc). Saturn wasn't really breaking new ground like Mario 64 or FFVII did for their machines, but it did what it did do (traditional gaming, arcade gaming) it did extremely well.

At least last generation we had 3 distinct machines with rather unique libraries. This generation, I couldn't imagine owning all four consoles they're so redundant.

 

[Gio_CoD]

I actually own a NuON.

And at least the 3DO had a pretty good port of Street Fighter II: Turbo. I can't think of a single good game for the Jaguar or Virtual Boy.

 

[jarrod]

I can't think of a single good game for the Jaguar or Virtual Boy.

Red Alarm and Wario Land for VB. Rayman and Alien Vs Predator for Jag.

 

[Shinobi]

It's true, if only in retrospect. Why bother with a Dreamcast when all it's great games are available on other platforms with more to offer? DC was a serious waste of time for all parties involved.

Worthless point...we're talking about what the systems did at the time, not what you could've played a couple years after the fact. Besides which the console was instantly affordable from moment one, a feat only the N64 and Gamecube was able to do (which I guess shows how important that is in the long run :lol). Dreamcast was a blast to play while the games were coming, so that's all that matters to me.

Yeah the Sewer Shark bit and the 32X/SegaCD love are both overstatement for comedic effect. My main point is that Saturn really didn't have the games power, at least in the US to give it the lofty status that it's looking for. And though I loved the Dreamcast, it is canonized as a veritable saint these days. It had alot of great games, but it wasn't best console ever.

I've gone back and fourth on which game platform was my favourite ever. I loved the C64, Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast...they each more then paid for themselves tenfold and gave me some of my best entertainment hours during their runs. The Dreamcast I think could've been legendary with a couple more years...as it is, it's output during it's three year run was just stunning.

As for the Saturn, there was nowhere else to play the Model 2 games, which I consider the high water mark for Sega's arcade output (well a lot of those games did make it to the PC...but I never had one good enough to play those games, so there). And I'm one Saturn owner who didn't need import RPG's and fruity ass anime platformers to make that system worth the while...just playing the Model 2 and Capcom ports (and the Panzer series) was good enough for me.

Objectively speaking, any platform that has the ability to run emulators for many of the previous platforms would be the runaway winner for best game platform ever, which means the PC and (gasp!) XBox would be up there. But I guess many would consider that cheating.

 

[littlewig]

Wow, praising the GC really brings out the trolls.

Also

Naruto GC >>>> Anything

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think for a lot of people it comes down to the context in which they played the system. For multi-console owners who tend to buy every major system (like myself), the third-party support on the GC was nearly irrelevent (most third-party ports were better IMO on Xbox, with a few exceptions like SCII, etc.)

I also think that while N64 undoubtedly had it's share of dry spells, nothing matched this Christmas season on GC. From November on, the only exclusive game I can think of being released is Mario Strikers. And outside of Zelda, 06 looks really soft. I would venture to say in a poll that for multi-console owners most would say N64 > GC. For single console most owners GC > N64. What that means I guess IMO is that Nintendo treated it's loyal single console owners better, but failed to compete as well in the multi-console context.

As far as the framerate issue, it's a problem, but IMO didn't take away too much from enjoying classics at the time like BK, DKR, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, OOT (although it got a bit much in Banjo-Tooie where Rare pushed it a bit).

N64>GC

Although, I don't understand why people hate so much on WW and Sunshine. Wind Waker is a great game. Sunshine is a decent 8-10 kind of game. Obviously both aren't as good as their N64 versions, but that doesn't make them terrible. OOT and Super Mario 64 are two of the very best 3D console games ever created, so it's hard for other games to live up to that.

2006 is looking terrible. This year was bad imo, but when you look at 06 all you're getting is Zelda. Now, imo it could be better than OOT, but come on. One good game a year? No no Nintendo.

 

[Solo]

My reasoning for picking N64 over GC was the # of what I would consider "classics":

GC:
Eternal Darkness
Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Metroid Prime
Resident Evil Remake
Resident Evil 4
Rogue Squadron II

A whopping 6.

N64:
Banjo Kazooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Goldeneye 007
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Perfect Dark
Rogue Squadron
Starfox 64
Super Mario 64
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter

10 > 6.

 

[jarrod]

Worthless point...we're talking about what the systems did at the time, not what you could've played a couple years after the fact.

Not really, we're comparing all machines to each other in retrospect. At this point and time, Dreamcast is easily the most unnessary major platform ever made. Even if we look at things only in context, GameCube and Xbox both destroy it in terms of top tier releases and overall variety.... the thing never stood a chance.

Besides which the console was instantly affordable from moment one, a feat only the N64 and Gamecube was able to do (which I guess shows how important that is in the long run :lol). Dreamcast was a blast to play while the games were coming, so that's all that matters to me.

Nice 6 month "blast" there.

I think my frustration with DC stems from it basically failing to live up to Saturn. It did rather well on the arcade side of things, but outside JSR the consumer market was almost entirely neglected. Plus the controller was pure shit.

 

[Shinobi]

The Saturn was the third worst console ever released. Jaguar and Virtual Boy share the top spot.

You still sound as idiotic as your avatar looks...

Phillips CD-i

Jaguar CD

Atari Lynx

Amiga 32

3DO

That now moves the Saturn up to the 8th worst console of all time. Bitch.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Saturn is far from the 3rd worst system ever.

It is in fact my 2nd FAVORITE system ever.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Gio_CoD]

You still sound as idiotic as your avatar looks...

Phillips CD-i

Jaguar CD

Atari Lynx

Amiga 32

3DO

That now moves the Saturn up to the 8th worst console of all time. Bitch.

Wow man, you're hardcore. Calling people a "bitch" on the internet and getting all worked up hyperbole. Here you go, you're the worst poster of all time. Go ahead and start proving me wrong.

 

[Shinobi]

Not really, we're comparing all machines to each other in retrospect. At this point and time, Dreamcast is easily the most unnessary major platform ever made. Even if we look at things only in context, GameCube and Xbox both destroy it in terms of top tier releases and overall variety.... the thing never stood a chance.

How you look at the systems is up to you. I'm looking at them as they were at the time. If I was to look at the consoles in retrospect then the PSX, Saturn and N64 would all be useless overhyped pieces of shit, with the ugliest looking visuals since the Atari era and specs that never came close to matching the arcade quality promised by everybody in 1994. And hell, the Revolution will make the entire Nintendo console line worthless a year from now. It's a stupid way to look at things.

 

[Ponn]

Saturn is tops near the best list, not worst. People that can't find great games on that just aren't gamers.

Jaguar was sparse, but it had a few, namely Aliens vs. Predators and Tempest.

I actually prefer the Gamecube in leaps and bounds over the N64 and it's shitty textures, I just could never get over those. I''m surprised some nintendo fans are even letting people call it a failure. I don't consider it a failure. I had some games for it and enjoyed it and Nintendo turned a profit. Big whoop if it wasn't first or second in overall sales.

 

[Shinobi]

Wow man, you're hardcore. Calling people a "bitch" on the internet and getting all worked up hyperbole. Here you go, you're the worst poster of all time. Go ahead and start proving me wrong.

The fact that you couldn't feel the sarcasm smacking from that post smacking your face shows what a bitch you really are. :lol

Hope you're not gonna cry a second time...

 

[iapetus]

Jaguar CD

An add-on for an existing console doesn't make it a new system. Saturn back up to number 7, bitch.

 

[Gio_CoD]

The fact that you couldn't feel the sarcasm smacking from that post smacking your face shows what a bitch you really are. :lol

Hope you're not gonna cry a second time...

The fact that you're treating the Saturn like your first born shows what a dork you really are. Grow up, buddy. There's a reason the Saturn sold 73 units. It sucked.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I love my gamecube (fire emblem rocks!) but the best loser this gen, IMO, is the Dreamcast.

 

[iapetus]

Did anyone here own a Jaguar?

What do you mean, 'did'? I still have mine. Tempest 2000 FTW...

 

[jarrod]

How you look at the systems is up to you. I'm looking at them as they were at the time. If I was to look at the consoles in retrospect then the PSX, Saturn and N64 would all be useless overhyped pieces of shit, with the ugliest looking visuals since the Atari era and specs that never came close to matching the arcade quality promised by everybody in 1994.

I dunno, I still find stuff like Princess Crown, X-Men Vs Street Fighter or Valkyrie Profile pretty good looking.

And hell, the Revolution will make the entire Nintendo console line worthless a year from now. It's a stupid way to look at things.

But unlike Dreamcast then, GameCube wouldn't have been made entirely redundant within it's own generation.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Gamecube? Heh heh m. The Gamecube kicked ass all over the place, heh heh m heh.

Uh, that never happened, Beavis.

Oh yeah. Well, remember that time I took McDicker to my basement dungeon and tortured him? Heh heh m heh.

I'm also afraid that never happened, Beavis.

Heh heh m heh. I burned his pants.

 

[Shinobi]

An add-on for an existing console doesn't make it a new system. Saturn back up to number 7, bitch.

So does that mean the 32X and Sega CD don't qualify either? Cause those were gonna be my aces in the hole!

The fact that you're treating the Saturn like your first born shows what a dork you really are. Grow up, buddy. There's a reason the Saturn sold 73 units. It sucked.

:lol You sound like a fucking school girl now. I treat the Saturn like it's my first born? I fucking mocked it in a reply to your own post, and you think I'm hurt because others don't like it? What an idiot.

And let's not talk about system sales...at least the Saturn was shoved aside by a stripped down PC from a fucking OS supplier.

They're nothing but consoles kid...a little shit talking isn't gonna do them or us any harm. So just relax and enjoy the fun.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

The biggest problem with most GC games is that they tend to develop some gimmicky gameplay characteristic without expanding upon or sometimes even incorporating the established basics of whatever genre the game is in. It gives off an extremely unpolished feel and makes playing the game after the gimmick wears off extremely tiring. That and and sometimes the game gives off the aura that it's not just laziness or a deadline, but the developer actually dumbing down the game.

When they do it right, it's gold: Metroid Prime, Pikmin
When they don't, it's some of the biggest crap ever: Mario Sunshine, Starfox Assault, SSMB, Mario Kart DD

Those are just the few games that I think best highlight the problem, it really does plague just about every game Nintendo released this gen though.

 

[marc^o^]

But unlike Dreamcast then, GameCube wouldn't have been made entirely redundant within it's own generation.

Jarrod, I appreciate you, but you are so wrong with your Dreamcast (lack of) appreciation it hurts my gamer heart.

 

[Shinobi]

I dunno, I still find stuff like Princess Crown, X-Men Vs Street Fighter or Valkyrie Profile pretty good looking.

Oh come on, you know I wasn't talking about the 2D stuff. It's the 3D stuff that looks like human feces.

But unlike Dreamcast then, GameCube wouldn't have been made entirely redundant within it's own generation.

Which is funny 'cause DC haters like to say it wasn't even part of this generation, heh.

Gamecube? Heh heh m. The Gamecube kicked ass all over the place, heh heh m heh.

Uh, that never happened, Beavis.

Oh yeah. Well, remember that time I took McDicker to my basement dungeon and tortured him? Heh heh m heh.

I'm also afraid that never happened, Beavis.

Heh heh m heh. I burned his pants.

:lol

 

[iapetus]

So does that mean the

Spoiler

32X

and

Spoiler

Sega CD

don't qualify either? Cause those were gonna be my aces in the hole!

Watch your language. We don't tolerate use of such words here.

 

[Gio_CoD]

:lol You sound like a fucking school girl now. I treat the Saturn like it's my first born? I fucking mocked it in a reply to your own post, and you think I'm hurt because others don't like it? What an idiot.

And let's not talk about system sales...at least the Saturn was shoved aside by a stripped down PC from a fucking OS supplier.

They're nothing but consoles kid...a little shit talking isn't gonna do them or us any harm. So just relax and enjoy the fun.

I like how you assume that I'd give a shit if you knock the Gamecube simply because I have an Animal Crossing icon. I couldn't care less if the Xbox outsold the Cube. I just came here to say the Saturn was a terrible, useless, horrible console and you seemed to get offended. I say you should probably take a bit of your own advice and try not to get so worked up. ;-)

Guide to posting on GAF:
1.) Declare love for obscure, undersupported, commercial failure.
2.) Claim your favorite game is some Japanese RPG that you've never actually finished.
3.) Register "Shinobi" on GAF.
4.) Succeed.

 

[Ponn]

Oh come on, you know I wasn't talking about the 2D stuff. It's the 3D stuff that looks like human feces.

Panzer Dragoon Saga respectfully disagrees with you.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

um...I don't know. It's the least satsifying modern console. It's hard to see the kick ass aspect. I guess it was supposed to represent a mindshare victory for Nintendo and that failed big. At least they didn't lose money as a company even if it probably did a lot to shave off their customer base. Hurrah!