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[kswiston]

It definitely should have been a bonus for pre-order and new buyers as opposed to strait up DLC. Sad that that is becoming the new normal for SP games but that would have been ok. Otherwise it is a strait up fan tax.

Poor form Bioware.

Bioware has been pulling this kind of stunt for awhile. DA:O had two pieces of Day 1 DLC, one that all new buyers got for free, and the other that was $7 if you didn't buy the Collectors Edition. That $7 DLC gave you the only storage chest in the game if I remember correctly, which was an even bigger crime in a wrpg than holding a character behind a pay wall. At least PC owners could download a storage chest mod.

DA2 had two pieces of Day 1 DLC as well, but you might have received both if you preordered before a certain date. I can't remember. I do know that the character taken out of DA2 figured into the plot a lot more than Shale in DA:O or the bounty hunter in ME2. There was no way that he wasn't a planned part of the game from the start. I would imagine that the same is true of the Prothean character in ME3.

 

[K' Dash]

I'm feeling the Protean is VERY important to the Mass Effect lore, he has conversations with almost every character, as far as I am in the game, and this gives A LOT of info about them as a race, can't say more cause of spoilers, but yeah, it was bullshit.

I'm a sucker for Mass Effect, but no other IP from BioWare interest me, so, when I'm finished with this, they can go fuck themselves, they won't see another penny from me.

 

[GalacticSushiman]

Other question, is it OK to fire a majority of the dev team once a game is finished, or should you keep this team occupied during the 2-3 months of submissions?
Oh no, sorry, that's the same question actually...

 

[BobsRevenge]

Big video games have been shafting their audience in big ways to make them feel financially safer, especially EA, and they should be called out on it. The focus on short-term gains would be better directed at an understanding of the benefits of unadulterated quality, which is a more long-term strategy. This is what Rockstar does to great effect.

tbh, the shafting is a big reason I don't buy these games day one. Every bit of day-one dlc, or dlc required storyline, sort of things dissuades me more from a purchase. Every bit of vendor-exclusive content does it too. I tend to ignore these things even after purchase on principle, but the intent of all of it bothers me.

 

[phosphor112]

Where did I say "$60 = free"? I said, if the DLC is done on Day 1, and they supply it on the disc so if you choose to purchase the additional content you actually are "buying" an unlock code, and not downloading something? Why is this such a frowned upon practice?

For $60 you got the game, did I miss part of the article and for $60 all you can do is go to the main menu and make your Sheps face, and then you have to start putting in extra money? From reviews I've seen for $60 you get a 20 to 30 hour game which is these days pretty good return for that price.

Why am I getting ripped off because I didn't get the Day 1 DLC for free because it was "on the disc"?

I'm sorry, but the whole "time vs cost" thing that people keep bringing up is bullshit. People don't rate cars, movies, or music, on how long they can use, watch, or listen to it. That's the stupidest fucking thing ever. It's about the build quality, the cinematic experience, the composition. I've spent over 2000 hours on TF2, I've spent over 900 hours on GT4, I've spent over 3000 on Tribes 2. Those must be the fucking best games in the god damn universe, amirite?

Time doesn't dictate whether something is worth it or not. You can spend countless hours on Runescape but it still won't rival larger titles in it's genre. Last week, I spent 15 dollars on a 2 hour game (Journey). Did I get ripped off? Fuck no. That game is absolutely jaw dropping. If you want to associate time-sinks with quality, go ahead if that's your prerogative. But to limit the quality of a title to how long you can spend playing it is an insult to not only the games, but the developers and consumers who play it as well.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I'm kinda mad people are now just realizing the greed from these companies... o_o...

It's good that people are finally waking up to this, and seeing that developers and publishers are taking advantage of them.

I can recall years ago when Factor 5 released Rogue Squadron for N64, and then a long time afterwards when Episode One released it was revealed that a Naboo Starfighter was a playable vehicle. It was so cool to know that they snuck that vehicle into the cart well before the movie released, and it remained a secret unlockable.
Such an awesome thing like that will NEVER happen again, because now they'll spin it as DLC, and require payment for a 100kb unlock key.

 

[phosphor112]

Michael Gamble (producer) responds:

I've posted a summarized response on the BSN, but i wanted to give some more details on the 'From Ashes' development. As we've seen recently, our fans are extremely passionate and we have a great deal of respect for you.

ME3 was a labour of love for the dev team. To finish a game like ME3, it literally takes months of intense bug fixing and certification. At this point, our goal is to polish the game to an extremely high quality – not to add extra content. You hopefully see a lot of that polish in ME3....

:lol

Sorry, but I have never really associated Bioware with polish. Sure a lot have gone into the game, but I've had so many AI and geometry bugs in my ME playthroughs (I'll ignore the animation ones, because as stupid/funny as they are, they don't BREAK the game).

It's good that people are finally waking up to this, and seeing that developers and publishers are taking advantage of them.

I can recall years ago when Factor 5 released Rogue Squadron for N64, and then a long time afterwards when Episode One released it was revealed that a Naboo Starfighter was a playable vehicle. It was so cool to know that they snuck that vehicle into the cart well before the movie released, and it remained a secret unlockable.
Such an awesome thing like that will NEVER happen again, because now they'll spin it as DLC, and require payment for a 100kb unlock key.

My brother and I are starting development for a game, and we've mentioned two publishers we'd never go with (you can probably guess who). We're going Steam platform first and foremost... because.. well, it's Steam, and publishers aren't needed at this early of a stage when DD exists at a very low cost (or free).

We believe that DLC can NEVER be a part of a game that you feel passionate about. They are so bite sized that the continuity either breaks, or you get this sort of issue with Bioware. We LOVE expansion packs... I'm talking about, almost a new game tacked onto the original. Classic blizzard expansions... Wipeout Fury, that sort of thing. Quality and continuity matching (if not exceeding) the original product to show the consumer "We care about it THIS much."

Besides, what's better than making money when developing games?.... Pleasing the fans/consumer. That's what it was always about.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

The argument that Kotaku graph and BioWare use is "The situation is the way it is because that's the way it is."

If the realities of your game development process produce this as a result, then change your game development process to produce a different result. It is what it is because it is what it is is not a valid excuse for angering your customer base, or for anything really.

 

[Massa]

The argument that Kotaku graph and BioWare use is "The situation is the way it is because that's the way it is."

If the realities of your game development process produce this as a result, then change your game development process to produce a different result. It is what it is because it is what it is is not a valid excuse for angering your customer base, or for anything really.

They have changed their business model, all they need to do now is work on their PR.

 

[Bisnic]

:lol

Sorry, but I have never really associated Bioware with polish. Sure a lot have gone into the game, but I've had so many AI and geometry bugs in my ME playthroughs (I'll ignore the animation ones, because as stupid/funny as they are, they don't BREAK the game).

Although i understand how they could miss a bug that only happen IF you romance Ashley, then Jack, then another one in ME3, BUT killed Wrex, killed Jacob, saved the Rachni Queen, broke the Krogan/Asari couple in ME2 or whatever of the thousands of different possibilities in the trilogy...

But something like easily getting stuck in the cockpit where Joker and

Spoiler

EDI

are? The ME1 -> ME2 -> ME3 face issue? No way they never saw that.

 

[RoninChaos]

The funniest part of this to me is that game developers are screaming that they need people to buy shit day one, to stay afloat, that piracy is fucking them in the ass, and that if you buy day one, brand new, you'll be rewarded with something.

And then they do shit like this, with From the Ashes, and look at the response! People are pissed. ME 3 will still sell, and the DLC will still sell, but you have to wonder if this kind of model is sustainable in the long run. Because the publisher's goals are pretty much going in the opposite direction of what consumers want. Remember when Bobby Kotick said he'd charge more than 60 for games? This is it, right here. To get a complete ME3 experience you're gonna pay 70, not 60. And you can bet more companies are going to start doing this shit, too.

If this kind of thing continues I will never buy day one again because I'll know the developer/publisher took something out just so they could sell it to me again later. I'll wait for a price drop, or a game of the year edition, and then wait for a price drop on that. And I know a lot more people are starting to feel this way. This stuff can't be good for the industry.

There is something to be said about how people FEEL about the company they're buying from. Good will is important. Who would have EVER thought that Bioware would be catching the heat that they are now? Hell, who would have EVER thought Bioware would be pulling this shit now? I've gone from being a rabid fan of their games to a person who hasn't even popped in ME3 because of this shit. It's really, really disappointing.

And this is turning me into the kind of consumer the industry says it hates. Because of this day one bullshit, it's hard to see myself buying day one going forward if this trend continues. I'll pick it up used for 20 or new when it hits 30. The same thing publishers say they don't want to happen, but then they do shit like this, and actively try to fuck their customers.

Like I said, this can't be good for the industry, on both sides of the coin.

 

[strem]

I love how all these devs, publishers, and journo's all bang the drum and try and convince us how great of a thing day 1 or on the disk dlc is. Newsflash Your customers don't like it so stop

 

[FairXchange]

The game is massive. There's more than your money's worth in game content, so I do not understand why people expect more. Call me crazy, delusional, etc but I'm fine with having to buy the CE edition to access the From Ashes DLC (which was bloody amazing, by the way).

I bought the Kasumi DLC in ME2 and all my decisions carried over to ME3, it's part of the game experience and a worthy expense for the absolutely rich universe that Bioware crafted with this game.

No one is forcing you to buy it.

 

[Meier]

I'm only renting it so I'm definitely skipping this. I'll probably buy it once we get a GOTY edition. I bought all of the ME2 DLC on sale at a later date and then never even ended up playing any of it.. doh.

At least we got that funny as hell Youtube reaction video. That kind of made Bioware fucking people over worthwhile.

 

[captainnapalm]

The funniest part of this to me is that game developers are screaming that they need people to buy shit day one, to stay afloat, that piracy is fucking them in the ass, and that if you buy day one, brand new, you'll be rewarded with something.

And then they do shit like this, with From the Ashes, and look at the response! People are pissed. ME 3 will still sell, and the DLC will still sell, but you have to wonder if this kind of model is sustainable in the long run. Because the publisher's goals are pretty much going in the opposite direction of what consumers want. Remember when Bobby Kotick said he'd charge more than 60 for games? This is it, right here. To get a complete ME3 experience you're gonna pay 70, not 60. And you can bet more companies are going to start doing this shit, too.

If this kind of thing continues I will never buy day one again because I'll know the developer/publisher took something out just so they could sell it to me again later. I'll wait for a price drop, or a game of the year edition, and then wait for a price drop on that. And I know a lot more people are starting to feel this way. This stuff can't be good for the industry.

There is something to be said about how people FEEL about the company they're buying from. Good will is important. Who would have EVER thought that Bioware would be catching the head that they are now? Hell, who would have EVER thought Bioware would be pulling this shit now? I've gone from being a rabid fan of their games to a person who hasn't even popped in ME3 because of this shit. It's really, really disapointing.

And this is turning me into the kind of consumer the industry says it hates. Because of this day one bullshit, it's hard to see myself buying day one going forward if this trend continues. I'll pick it up used for 20 or new when it hits 30. The same thing publishers say they don't want to happen, but then they do shit like this, and actively try to fuck their customers.

Like I said, this can't be good for the industry, on both sides of the coin.

It's a good point you make about good will. So EA/Bioware got my extra money, I bought From Ashes yesterday, but it does matter at all to them that it's left a bad taste in my mouth?

I love Mass Effect, I've been on board since the first one, and their writers and artists have knocked ME3 out of the park from what I can tell so far, but why do they have to extort more money out of us with these kinds of tactics? Good will might not add to their bottom line, but Bioware's reputation has taken a lot of knocks in the past few years and it may one day reach a tipping point where people just go 'fuck it, I'm done with them'. A lot of good game companies have come and gone, they shouldn't think themselves untouchable.

At any rate, I still love what the creative types are doing over there, but the suits can lick my balls. Greedy bastards.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

The question is were the Bioware staff co-conspirators in this racketeering, sorry experiment. Or were they held ransom by the Publisher to focus and filed test the $70.00 entry price point going forward for a "complete" title?

These are the questions that need to be asked, why is no one asking these questions?

 

[phosphor112]

Although i understand how they could miss a bug that only happen IF you romance Ashley, then Jack, then another one in ME3, BUT killed Wrex, killed Jacob, saved the Rachni Queen, broke the Krogan/Asari couple in ME2 or whatever of the thousands of different possibilities in the trilogy...

But something like easily getting stuck in the cockpit where Joker and

Spoiler

EDI

are? The ME1 -> ME2 -> ME3 face issue? No way they never saw that.

Check this out. B)

We all got stuck on a rock VVV while mechs were destroying crates and shooting at us!...

 

[shrimpjive]

I'm only renting it so I'm definitely skipping this. I'll probably buy it once we get a GOTY edition. I bought all of the ME2 DLC on sale at a later date and then never even ended up playing any of it.. doh.

At least we got that funny as hell Youtube reaction video. That kind of made Bioware fucking people over worthwhile.

Do you have a link for that video?

 

[neoemonk]

It would have been awesome if they took that extra team with all that free time and implemented proper controller support in the PC version. What was the reason they gave for not being able to do it again?

 

[ironcreed]

So, the excuse is they need to get DLC out as soon as possible so people will hold on to their games? Here is a thought, how about releasing a game that feels complete at the end, instead of leaving it hanging on such a vague cliffhanger that screams, "Stay tuned for DLC!"

In what is supposed to be a final installment of a wildly popular series, you don't piss people off by not giving them their choices and a proper, well rounded conclusion that leaves them satisfied. Hell, you should not do that period in any game, trilogy finale or not.

Give people a reason to hold on to your game, love it and play it. Anything else you add to the complete experience later is just a bonus, and people will surely hang on and want more. Call me crazy, but a little series called The Elder Scrolls has been very successful using this model. Save for the horse armor fiasco, they have the right approach to this DLC thing.

 

[Wolfe]

day 1 dlc is stuff that got cutfrom the final game, because the publisher wants extra money. i wont ever support such nonsense and buy the games when they are cheap (in three months).

Fixed that for ya.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I see a lot of people saying "I don't like this but I'll buy it eventually." ... WHY? Can't you just rent, borrow, or at the very least buy it used? Buying it new then buying the unlock codes is pretty much the worst thing you can do.

 

[Wolfe]

I see a lot of people saying "I don't like this but I'll buy it eventually." ... WHY? Can't you just rent, borrow, or at the very least buy it used? Buying it new then buying the unlock codes is pretty much the worst thing you can do.

Yeah I'll never understand that mindset.

 

[Argyle]

The argument that Kotaku graph and BioWare use is "The situation is the way it is because that's the way it is."

If the realities of your game development process produce this as a result, then change your game development process to produce a different result. It is what it is because it is what it is is not a valid excuse for angering your customer base, or for anything really.

Out of curiosity, what result do you want, and how would you change the game development process to achieve that result?

 

[Palette Swap]

So, if I get this right, at some point in the development process someone thought putting an IGN character was more critical to the game than an actual

Spoiler

Prothean

?
I have yet to play the game but from the looks of it, the fact that the data is on the disk, Bioware sounds disingenuous.

Then again, I tend to like/love their games (except for DA2) but the way they've come off as dishonest for some time now doesn't give me any incentive to believe their rationalizations.

 

[conman]

So, if I get this right, at some point in the development process someone thought putting an IGN character was more critical to the game than an actual

Spoiler

Prothean

?
I have yet to play the game but from the looks of it, the fact that the data is on the disk, Bioware sounds disingenuous.

Then again, I tend to like/love their games (except for DA2) but the way they've come off as dishonest for some time now doesn't give me any incentive to believe their rationalizations.

It's a mistake to think of them as a "they." BioWare have grown so big over the recent past that it's entirely possible that the higher ups have grown too influential while many others at the studio are still doing creative, interesting work with the fans in mind. Unfortunately, those willing to bend over for profit hungry execs have come to outnumber those focused on doing good work. It's really too bad.

So what seems "disingenuous" or just plain dishonest is more likely just a deep conflict of competing interests within the studio.