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[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I mean really, who drives 100 per day? My business involves me driving constantly all day and even I don't hit 75 miles over a 24 hour period.

How often does a 150+ mile trip happen anyway? I'll rent a car then, or take the train/fly.

Probably but I remember people also complaining what happens if they forget to charge it overnight. It's more people want the luxury of knowing they're not limited than anything else, just like most other products people buy more than they'll ever need.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Probably but I remember people also complaining what happens if they forget to charge it overnight. It's more people want the luxury of knowing they're not limited than anything else, just like most other products people buy more than they'll ever need.

Still, those are merely excuses. 100 miles is more than enough for 80%+ of everyone, imo. This includes running errands and picking up the kids from soccer practice, etc.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Still, those are merely excuses. 100 miles is more than enough for 80%+ of everyone, imo. This includes running errands and picking up the kids from soccer practice, etc.

I'm just telling you some reasons why people are so resistant. It's the vocal minority who are paranoid by stuff just like the people who complain that 32-64GB isn't enough storage for their phone. Will/do they need all that space? Most likely not at all. It's the same situation with cars, people don't want to be tethered whether it affects them or not.

 

[Mashing]

They just need to bring over the euro version of Ford into the US and their sales will skyrocket. Euro Ford is so much better than the US division.

 

[lunarworks]

Ford really needs to update their logo. I know it's classic and all, but that blue oval and the font really doesn't fit with the new look of their cars. They should retire that logo and move on with something more streamlined.

How about no?

Rebranding for the sake of rebranding usually results in money wasted and a return to the old logo.

 

[knitoe]

Still, those are merely excuses. 100 miles is more than enough for 80%+ of everyone, imo. This includes running errands and picking up the kids from soccer practice, etc.

When automakers quote a number, it's usually the best scenario which usually aren't realistic. Does 100 miles includes stop & go traffic or constant 55-60 mph, using AC / heat, radio, headlights and/or etc.? Plus your commute into the city maybe 30 to and 30 back (60 miles total), but you might be trap in traffic for hours.

 

[Skiptastic]

Shit, those Fords actually look pretty nice. I'm not much of a "car enthusiast", but the hybrids look pretty good to me. I'll need to see if Hyundai has a good option for that shit when it's time to buy again, as I love my Sonata. If not, might look to Ford, seeing as how they ain't taking my moneys.

 

[mikekennyb]

Good for Ford! At least we have one solid American car company. Those are all nice designs, and I'd love to pick up a Fiesta, though I'm not too hot on the current Ford's being sold in the US.

There is a perception vs. quality lag in carmakers, right now Hyundai is breaking through it (although their cars have been high quality for at least the past couple years). Thirty years ago the Japanese cars broke through it, I think in a few years most consumers will recognize Ford as being a solid manufacturer, whereas now it's often derided as being "dumb American auto company stuck in the 80's, they should sell out to Toyota, LOL".

 

[mckmas8808]

Too bad this thing isn't realistic at all for a single-car family.

It can go 100 miles, but after that - you need to charge for 6 hours. Obviously can't take it on a trip anywhere ... and if you cut it close ... you could really fuck yourself. You'll need a tow, rather than AAA dropping off a galon of gas so you can make it to the nearest pump.

The average person drives 40 miles per day or so. This will be plenty for the average person.

 

[mckmas8808]

Probably but I remember people also complaining what happens if they forget to charge it overnight. It's more people want the luxury of knowing they're not limited than anything else, just like most other products people buy more than they'll ever need.

What if I forget to put gas into my car before I go home! What am I going to do in the morning?

 

[sprsk]

The average person drives 40 miles per day or so. This will be plenty for the average person.

Until the average person leaves the city.

As a kid my family took a LOT of car trips, when I was in college I had to drive 6 hours to get home during vacation.

100 miles isn't enough.

What is stopping people from starting up new car companies in the states? Seems like now would be a great time to show the big (lol) 3 how much they suck.

 

[Raistlin]

The average person drives 40 miles per day or so. This will be plenty for the average person.

On a normal day? Sure. However, plenty of people drive more than that (and more than 100 miles) several times a year. I'd suspect that there is a higher percentage that do that, than own multiple vehicles.


Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people such a car will make sense for (predominately in cities), however, there is a large segment that it will not be viable for. Like it or not, the US is a huge country, and huge segments of the population are not in cities.

 

[Straightballin]

Why is everyone bashing it because it only has a 100 mile range? Its a step in the right direction and thats all that matters. Of course everyone wants a car with a higher range but the technology just is not there at a reasonable price. You guys should be praising Ford instead of taking shots at them.

 

[Raistlin]

Why is everyone bashing it because it only has a 100 mile range?

I don't think anyone is bashing it ... merely pointing out that 100mi-only, is not viable for many people

Its a step in the right direction and thats all that matters. Of course everyone wants a car with a higher range but the technology just is not there at a reasonable price. You guys should be praising Ford instead of taking shots at them.

I really don't think anyone meant it as a negative, just constructive criticism.

I was quick to bitch at anyone complaining that hybrids are worthless ... for the very same reason - they are a step in the right direction. I was just pointing out that a hybrid can fit in with basically any driving regiment, whereas the current battery-onlies can't.


Believe me, I am very

Spoiler

VERY

happy to see this sort of tech moving into the mainstream. I'm just trying to keep a realistic view for the needs of the general US populace.

 

[mckmas8808]

On a normal day? Sure. However, plenty of people drive more than that (and more than 100 miles) several times a year. I'd suspect that there is a higher percentage that do that, than own multiple vehicles.


Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people such a car will make sense for (predominately in cities), however, there is a large segment that it will not be viable for. Like it or not, the US is a huge country, and huge segments of the population are not in cities.

Then the car isn't for you. Straight up if you do more than the average person then the car just isn't for you.

It's for people that live in the city or near the city. And over time when battery get charging times get better and battery charging stations appear state-wide then 100 miles per charge will look even better.

 

[Boogie]

The Mondeo looks the shit, always impresses me when i see it.

ya, I like the Mondeo, pisses me off that we can't get it in NA.

 

[Raistlin]

Then the car isn't for you. Straight up if you do more than the average person then the car just isn't for you.

It's for people that live in the city or near the city.

That was my point. From a sales point of view though, it's a large (if not majority) of the population.

Though actually, I should point out that "if you do more than the average person" is a completely bullshit statistic in this case. Your average is not the problem ... it's what your max drive distances are, and how often they occur (or should I say, how often you would break anywhere near the 100mi threshold).

In reality, that is FAR different than considering just the average.

And over time when battery get charging times get better and battery charging stations appear state-wide then 100 miles per charge will look even better.

This is something I've admittedly not researched. Can 'charging stations' actually charge these types of batteries faster? This is a serious question. And if so, what are the current times approximately?

 

[Ripclawe]

These all look bulky and heavy as fuck. Why are new american car designs heading towards the 70's model of bulky, heavy fucking vehicles?

Hey! I would kill for a 1977 Pontiac Bonneville. Those things were built like a tank.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think anyone is bashing it ... merely pointing out that 100mi-only, is not viable for many people


I really don't think anyone meant it as a negative, just constructive criticism.

I was quick to bitch at anyone complaining that hybrids are worthless ... for the very same reason - they are a step in the right direction. I was just pointing out that a hybrid can fit in with basically any driving regiment, whereas the current battery-onlies can't.


Believe me, I am very

Spoiler

VERY

happy to see this sort of tech moving into the mainstream. I'm just trying to keep a realistic view for the needs of the general US populace.

This is just NOT true. Onix, dude you are a great thinking guy but the facts are the facts.

In addition, motorists are driving more. According to the latest statistics from the U.S.Department of Transportation, Americans drive an average of 29 miles a day and spend some 55 minutes of every day in their vehicles. The average vehicle is driven about 12,000 miles per year

Link

 

[titiklabingapat]

Have you guys even heard of renting?

Onix, those people including sprks, aren't "average" then.

 

[Anticitizen One]

See this is why President Obama wants to build a smartgrid system all across the country for these plug in cars. But I heard the proposal keeps getting shot down in congress.

 

[Ripclawe]

would it kill car companies to just make a fricking better gas powered engined that got at least 40/45 per gallon? You do that without sacrificing power and keeping it at below premium prices, you will own the market

 

[NinjaFridge]

This is just NOT true. Onix, dude you are a great thinking guy but the facts are the facts.



Link

I don't see how he was wrong. He said it wasn't viable for many people and it probably isn't, he never said it wasn't viable for most.

 

[Raistlin]

This is just NOT true. Onix, dude you are a great thinking guy but the facts are the facts.



Link

I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying.

The average is not important, since it moves near where you trend. So lets say for going to work, you're completely fine in this regard. You go several weeks where you have no problem.

What happens when you then have to drive (for whatever reason, a vaca, whatever), more than 100 miles? If you are in the majority segment that only owns one car, how is this practical for you? You have to pull over and wait 6 hours? That is obviously not going to work for most people.

That's why I'm asking, is there some faster way to charge with designated charge stations? If so, I hope they become mainstream ... actually, I'll donate money for it ... but if that is not currently feasible, this sort of car is simply not going to be usable for many people since they can only afford one car. You can't expect people to rent every time the need to go more than 100 miles.

Have you guys even heard of renting?

Onix, those people including sprks, aren't "average" then.

I've heard of it ... believe me, lately, I do it every other week

I'm simply pointing out that due to the size of the US, and the amount of travel many people do beyond 100mi, I think there's a large segment of the populace that would be concerned about this.

 

[mckmas8808]

would it kill car companies to just make a fricking better gas powered engined that got at least 40/45 per gallon? You do that without sacrificing power and keeping it at below premium prices, you will own the market

Yeah actually that would kill the car companies.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying.

The average is not important, since it moves near where you trend. So lets say for going to work, you're completely fine in this regard. You go several weeks where you have no problem.

What happens when you then have to drive (for whatever reason, a vaca, whatever), more than 100 miles? If you are in the majority segment that only owns one car, how is this practical for you? You have to pull over and wait 6 hours? That is obviously not going to work for most people.

That's why I'm asking, is there some faster way to charge with designated charge stations? If so, I hope they become mainstream ... actually, I'll donate money for it ... but if that is not currently feasible, this sort of car is simply not going to be usable for many people since they can only afford one car. You can't expect people to rent every time the need to go more than 100 miles.



I've heard of it ... believe me, lately, I do it every other week

I'm simply pointing out that due to the size of the US, and the amount of travel many people do beyond 100mi, I think there's a large segment of the populace that would be concerned about this.

I see what you are saying, but me and you know just like the PS3 it's higher price and newer technology will cause it to be made in lower supply anyway.

So demand won't have to be as high as say a Honda Civic.

 

[Anticitizen One]

would it kill car companies to just make a fricking better gas powered engined that got at least 40/45 per gallon? You do that without sacrificing power and keeping it at below premium prices, you will own the market

yes it would.

Fuck the gas its time to move on just like when we moved on from horse and buggy.

 

[Raistlin]

I see what you are saying, but me and you know just like the PS3 it's higher price and newer technology will cause it to be made in lower supply anyway.

So demand won't have to be as high as say a Honda Civic.

Exactly.

I'm fine with them rolling 'em out ... I just want people to keep a realistic view on their probable penetration.

My point is more geared to the people saying 'hybrids? fuck that ... e-only for me'. That just isn't realistic for mainstream consumption.

 

[mckmas8808]

Exactly.

I'm fine with them rolling 'em out ... I just want people to keep a realistic view on their probably penetration.

My point is more geared to the people saying 'hybrids? fuck that ... e-only for me'. That just isn't realistic for mainstream consumption.

Aw hell man me and you were on the same page the whole time. :lol

 

[klownboots]

Too bad this thing isn't realistic at all for a single-car family.

It can go 100 miles, but after that - you need to charge for 6 hours. Obviously can't take it on a trip anywhere ... and if you cut it close ... you could really fuck yourself. You'll need a tow, rather than AAA dropping off a galon of gas so you can make it to the nearest pump.

While this is true, it seems feasible to own one of this for the sole purpose of commuting to work and back. The money you save (depending on the cost of this thing) could allow you to afford a fine "highway/vacationing" car.

 

[Acid08]

Fords are such god awful cars.

 

[desertdroog]

It's on a taurus...

Although cylinders are nice, having more of them is not always better. Take a look at the new 2.0T vs. 3.2 audi a4's. The turbo-4 has been universally regarded as the better engine. It is lighter, cheaper, better fuel economy, less space, and just for you more and flatter torque . Turbo technologies have come a long way and don't forget that every performing diesel has a turbo.

Diesels are definitely suited for heavy duty, the issue isn't whether or not a turbo can give performance, as I also suggested that you put the same turbo's and fuel management system on the v8 to make a comparison. To which obviously you will lose in the fuel economy, but the performance will still be considerably more than the v6.

Which is moot.

I read the article stating that the v6 had more performance than the v8, when it was comparing apples to watermelons due to the turbos and fuel management. Even with said forced induction and fuel management, it still loses out on the torque in comparison and essentially the most important when getting the car to accelerate.

 

[Raistlin]

Aw hell man me and you were on the same page the whole time. :lol

hey ... no prob

 

[Raistlin]

While this is true, it seems feasible to own one of this for the sole purpose of commuting to work and back. The money you save (depending on the cost of this thing) could allow you to afford a fine "highway/vacationing" car.

That would assume the cars are cheap to buy. Unfortunately, that's not that case as yet.

Give it time though.

 

[polyh3dron]

And where is the Mondeo?

FAIL

 

[Zenith]

All these electric cars that are shown off look like glorified wheelchairs. I want a normal looking car that doesn't shit up the planet. Is that so much to ask?

An SUV is a "normal looking car" for you? Chelsea tractors for posers.

 

[Phobophile]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10230024-48.html

Setting a world record a gasoline fueled midsized sedan, the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid traveled 1,445.7 miles on a single tank of gas on Tuesday, April 28, 2009.

Traveling between 20 and 45 mph depending on traffic to take advantage of the car's capability to operate in electric-only mode up to 47 mph and foregoing cruise control to maximize fuel economy, a team of seven eco-drivers set out from Mount Vernon, Va. on Saturday at 8:15 a.m. ET with a goal of reaching 1,000 miles on their 17-gallon tank.

The team included Nascar driver Carl Edwards, high mileage trailblazer Wayne Gerdes and several Ford Motor Company engineers who took turns at the wheel, twittering their progress along the way.

The 1,000 mile target was easily reached at 9:07 a.m. EDT on April 27. Edwards reportedly took them past this milestone with an average fuel economy of 76.3 mpg, according to a post on Twitter.

With fuel still in the tank, the team continued driving into the night to see just how far the Fusion Hybrid could go.

At 5:43 a.m. EDT, the group announced their results on Twitter, "Its all over!!! The Fusion Hybrid did 1,445.7 miles on ONE tank of gas! Average f/e of 81.5mpg! What a team - what a car!! #Hybrid1000 ^JW"

Not too shabby for a midsize car rated at 41 mpg in the city and 36 mpg on the highway by the EPA.

The Fusion Hybrid is equipped with Ford's SmartGauge with EcoGuide, an instrument display that visually demonstrates how fuel efficient you are driving. However, the team employed other fuel economy maximizing techniques, such as:

* Slowing down and maintaining even throttle pressure
* Gradually accelerating and smoothly braking
* Maintaining a safe distance between vehicles and anticipating traffic conditions
* Coasting up to red lights and stop signs to avoid fuel waste and brake wear
* Minimize use of heater and air conditioning to reduce the load on the engine
* Close windows at high speeds to reduce aerodynamic drag
* Applying the "Pulse and Glide" technique while maintaining the flow of traffic
* Minimize excessive engine workload by using the vehicle's kinetic forward motion to climb hills, and use downhill momentum to build speed
* Avoiding bumps and potholes that can reduce momentum

The car used in this test was a standard 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid without any special modifications. The car was driven continuously for 69 hours, and this Ford video clip on You Tube shows the final moments of the car as it runs out of gas on the George Washington Parkway in Washington, D.C.

 

[SupahBlah]

Fords are such god awful cars.

Ford America maybe.

 

[MechDX]

Like Ford and happen to own two of them:

2000 F150- mine, paid off.

2004 Ford Explorer: Eddie Bauer- wife's. Didnt want an Explorer when we bought her a new car but she did, Everyone in Texas has owned/owns an Explorer.

 

[belvedere]

70 - 120 miles per gallon tells me that you are wrong.

You seriously find something wrong with the option of never having to buy gas again?

Wow ... what an absurd statement.

Have you ever wondered why small private start-up companies can not only design, but produce a working product that pisses all over the efforts we're seeing here, by some of the largest auto manufacturers in the world?

I hadn't seen the Fusion specs until this thread, and they're certainly impressive, but what would Ford (or any other major auto manufacturer) be capable of designing after taking into consideration their huge R&D and resource advantages if they concentrated on a fully electric project?

2010 Fusion Hybrid goes 1,445 miles on single tank

Now that is impressive.

 

[gcubed]

Exactly.

I'm fine with them rolling 'em out ... I just want people to keep a realistic view on their probable penetration.

My point is more geared to the people saying 'hybrids? fuck that ... e-only for me'. That just isn't realistic for mainstream consumption.

does the "average" family only own 1 car anymore? I'd argue that isnt "average" anymore.

The family you use to set up your example that lives in the suburbs and has to drive to work, wouldn't really be average, if they only owned one car

 

[twinturbo2]

Mustang or bust!

 

[Keylime]

So the thing goes 1400+ miles on a single tank if you drive like a grandma.

Fantastic progress!

Spoiler

It is awesome, but come on...not at all realistic

 

[twinturbo2]

They just need to bring over the euro version of Ford into the US and their sales will skyrocket. Euro Ford is so much better than the US division.

They're bringing over the Fiesta next year, and the next Euro Focus a year or two after that.

 

[Phobophile]

So the thing goes 1400+ miles on a single tank if you drive like a grandma.

Fantastic progress!

It is awesome, but come on...not at all realistic

It's fairly realistic if you do nothing but or mostly city/suburban driving, where you'll be driving between 20-45 mph.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10230024-48.html

This makes me want one.

 

[Tarazet]

It's fairly realistic if you do nothing but or mostly city/suburban driving, where you'll be driving between 20-45 mph.

Well shit, I hardly ever drive over 35 mph during my daily commute. Too bad I'm still upside down on my '08 Fusion and would be ruined by buying a new Hyrbid. Sucks not having money!

 

[Keylime]

It's fairly realistic if you do nothing but or mostly city/suburban driving, where you'll be driving between 20-45 mph.

Not really:

* Slowing down and maintaining even throttle pressure
* Gradually accelerating and smoothly braking
* Maintaining a safe distance between vehicles and anticipating traffic conditions
* Coasting up to red lights and stop signs to avoid fuel waste and brake wear
* Minimize use of heater and air conditioning to reduce the load on the engine
* Close windows at high speeds to reduce aerodynamic drag
* Applying the "Pulse and Glide" technique while maintaining the flow of traffic
* Minimize excessive engine workload by using the vehicle's kinetic forward motion to climb hills, and use downhill momentum to build speed
* Avoiding bumps and potholes that can reduce momentum

I'd hate to be behind this jackass, and considering I rarely am, based on my anecdotal experience I feel confident to say that hardly anyone drives this way.

 

[speculawyer]

Too bad this thing isn't realistic at all for a single-car family.

It can go 100 miles, but after that - you need to charge for 6 hours. Obviously can't take it on a trip anywhere ...

It is certainly not ideal for a single-car family . . . much better as a 2nd car used for commuting. But it could be used by a single car family. When you need to go further such as a long trip you rent a car or fly.

and if you cut it close ... you could really fuck yourself. You'll need a tow, rather than AAA dropping off a galon of gas so you can make it to the nearest pump

This isn't really true. Most automotive li-ions can take some type of fast charge, so you if you run out of juice, you could have a help vehicle give you a 15 minute fast charge. Hopefully that would be enough to get you to a place for a full charge. Thus, that would be very much like the 'get a gallon of gas' scenario.

Batteries charge in a non-linear fashion . . . they charge pretty fast initially (even with normal charging) but then slow down near the end. The last 20% of charging can take many hours. But if you run out of power, a quick partial charge can probably give you enough power to make it to a more ideal location. (If not, then you REALLY screwed up your drive planning.)

----------------

But regarding pure-electrics, I'm a big EV proponent but I don't think it is economically viable to make the current heavy steel cars into pure EVs. The batteries are just still too expensive. You can build pure EV Tesla Roadsters since $109K+ can pay for an expensive battery (The 53Kwh battery in the Tesla roadster is rumored to cost in the range of $30K to $40K.) Or you can build a very small lightweight EV such as the Aptera or a limited speed City car like the Th!nk City . . . but even those are just on the edge of being economically viable.

But right now, you cannot just stick a bunch of batteries in a standard steel compact car and expect it to be economically viable. The poor aerodynamics, the heavy weight, and the expensive batteries just make it economically irrational. And that is why they went with the 'extended range' EV model with the Chevy Volt. That uses a relatively small battery to get a very limited electric only range and gas after that. And even that model is still not quite economically viable . . . but it is just at the edge of viability. And with a $7500 tax-credit, it is an economically viable car. But they will need to reduce the costs in order to have the Volt be economically viable when the tax-credits are phased out (as they should be).

Of course the economic viability is all based on gas prices . . . and if they shoot back up to $4.50+/gallon, EVs will quickly become economically viable. EVs are the future . . . it is not a question of 'if' . . . only of 'when'.

 

[Burai]

no way, they used to be unique. Now everything is elevated and the front and full of panels, they look like they are straight out of the transformers movie. The cars themselves are good to drive, don't get me wrong, but they dont look like Fords they look like boxes.

The Ford Yaris

The Toyota Fiesta

Name's are NOT incorrect

The Fiesta looks nothing like a Yaris.