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Yet I think VER would destroy VET in the same car.
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Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
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Yet I think VER would destroy VET in the same car.
Psychotext
Member
Let me guess... Andrew Benson?
I think he's a better overtaker, but I reckon Vettel's consistency would see him win out over a race distance. I think Vettel probably qualifies better too.
PdotMichael
Banned
Vettel and Verstappen were or are the youngest driver with a victory.
I mean if that doesn't scream the lack of talent., what else?
I mean if that doesn't scream the lack of talent., what else?
Who else. Dude has hated on vettel since he won his first WDC.
Vettel is clearly on the same level as Lewis and Nando(Although i might put Nando above both of them).
Max has a potential to rival them but at this point i see him behind those three.
Also i would put Kubice in the same category as Bottas and Dani
Saw this on a BBC article about Kubica's test. What do we think about these assessments?
Both Vettel's and Bottas' positioning is crazy. Vettel for obvious reasons. Bottas has beaten Massa every single year (let alone Maldonado but, I mean, come on) and is now a championship contender, only 19 points off from Hamilton, in his first season at Mercedes. Saying he is not a great but only a good driver is completely uncalled for imo.
PdotMichael
Banned
Also calling Kimi only a good driver talentwise is quite insulting, when he entered F1 he was fast from the beginning and only fate stopped him of having more than just one title.
xrnzaaas
Member
It was one season so it's hard to say how good of a representation of their talent it was. The car from that year might have just been more suited to Ricciardo's driving style, that's all (I'm not saying it was, but it is a possibility).
dl77
Member
Saw this on a BBC article about Kubica's test. What do we think about these assessments?
Bit ridiculous to be honest. Kubica's not turned a wheel in anger in F1 for over 6 years so I think to even having him on the diagram is stupid.
Also, whilst I think that Alonso and Hamilton are both at a slightly higher level than Vettel there's no way I'd just put him borderline good/great. Yes he won his titles in the best car but that alone doesn't get you 4 on the trot.
If it'd been young Raikkonen I'd probably have had him further up the field but I just don't see anywhere near the same hunger as the man who barreled through smoke down the Kemmel Straight at Spa without lifting. Or even the one who took Schumacher through Eau Rouge. I just picture the 2002 Kimi sat happily behind Vettel for lap after lap at Hungary without trying to get past multiple times.
EDIT: To be fair I'd probably have Raikkonen solidly in the 'Good' category, I wouldn't say he's borderline!
frontieruk
Member
Vettel never looked happy in the car that season and it felt as if he had just given up as he felt he could compete against the Mercedes due to the Renault engine power deficit.
I think that's why Vettel gets points deducted in greatest drivers charts, as he gives up, unlike Alonso who points out he's driving a shitbox but always pushes to the limits.
Saw this on a BBC article about Kubica's test. What do we think about these assessments?
It's dumb because the only way to compare drivers is to put them in equal cars at the same time.
Stick 'em all in the McLaren, we can have a sliding scale of stroppiness.
I'm sorry, but great drivers adapt. I remember back in 2012 when the regulations switched up the floors a bit so the rear end of the rbr wasnt as stable and Webber started wiping the floor with him until they figured it out.
Vettel seems to be scared of real competition, requesting that Kimi stay at Ferrari for an extra year as part of his contract makes come off as weak. Put Ric, Max, or Hulk in that second Ferrari seat watch 2014 happen all over again.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Are you sure it's not a Ferrari thing rather than a Vettel thing? This seems like almost exactly the same situation with Alonso and Massa.
frontieruk
Member
Did I claim Vettel was a great driver??? No I said he wasn't happy and had given up, put them both in an even car they are happy with my money would be on Vettel, put them both in a shitbox and Danny will destroy Vettel, I don't think Vettel is scared of a strong team mate, I just think he understands in a close battle having a team mate who will obey team orders to his advantage may give him an edge.
Nah, Hulk is the real deal. Just never had a front running car. If anything I expect Kubi to help Hulk elevate his game.
PdotMichael
Banned
lol, you want to check that.
So you're saying in a car they both don't like Danny would have the upper hand, but Vettel would walk him in a car that they're both comfortable with? That makes no sense to me. I think Danny would walk him regardless as he's just the better driver of the two, but I guess we'll never know. I just know when it's all over and we look back at this era, Vettel's trophies will have more of a Prost feel to them than a Senna, Lauda, or Jackie, as opposed to Ham's or Alonso's who are already locked in as greats.
I could have the year wrong I'll admit that, but there was a period of time where the rear was not sticking in the corners as he was accustomed to and Webber had the upper hand during this period until Newey figured it out.
What about Perez then? In quali, Hulk is better, but when it came to the races, Perez made more points and has several podiums to show for Hulk's 0. That could be a regulation anomaly of the last few years (tyre management) but it still happened.
Frankfurter
Member
Webber never scored more points in a year compared to Vettel while at RB. He never had the upper hand.
Yes Perez too. His track record in shitty cars definitely earns him a shot in a top team (outside of that shitty 2013 mclaren).
And 1+1=2. This is known.
And this is why stats only tell half the story when looking back at a season. I never said he scored more points, I was simply alluding to his ability to adapt.
Psychotext
Member
I completely agree with him. Some drivers get the best out of bad cars, other drivers don't. Give Vettel a car he likes / keep him motivated and I think he's pretty much as good as anyone on the grid.
For what it's worth, I agree that you should always be performing at your best, but life doesn't really work that way. Not that I'm an elite sportsman, but I've been in the position of suddenly having to fight for barely being in the top ten vs the top three, and I very much fall into the "fuck this, it's not worth the effort" at that point.
This is kinda amazing.
Last weekend, Ferrari was feeling mixed on friday despite all the updates they brought, so they put Giovinazzi on a plane to Maranello, made him pull a simulator all-nighter to find a better setup, and on saturday they emerged the way they did.
Last weekend, Ferrari was feeling mixed on friday despite all the updates they brought, so they put Giovinazzi on a plane to Maranello, made him pull a simulator all-nighter to find a better setup, and on saturday they emerged the way they did.
Fair enough, but this is more of a personality thing than it is ability. It just doesn't look good on your Resume that your freshman teammate who was fast straight out of the gate, wipes the floor with you just after coming off your 4th title in a row.
Psychotext
Member
Probably makes them feel pretty good about their simulator, and fair play to Giovinazzi.
frontieruk
Member
The boldes shows we're on the same page, it's just I feel Vettel could be a great if he wasn't such a whiney little bitch when things don't go his way, the season vs Danny you could see in Vettels driving he just didn't care he wanted out of RB which covers the low as it helped trigger his get out clause. Rumours have Him as been in negotiations with Ferrari for almost a year when the announcement came, he new what he was doing and it probably was the cause of his dour demeanour that season as he knew it would cast doubts on his skill as a driver.
"Six key myths about F1's halo cockpit protection device busted"
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131095/six-key-myths-about-f1-halo-device-busted
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131095/six-key-myths-about-f1-halo-device-busted
brotkasten
Member
They mentioned this on Sky after Qualifying, I think. Still good to see it confirmed from another source.
In other news, Ferrari has a working simulator.
Number 7: it looks like ass
There's not a huge amount of information about it as far as I know - the most revealing thing came in that recent BBC interview where he said he has problems with supination as well as strength. His initial injury was a partial severing of the forearm - as he has problems with outward rotation he probably badly damaged his brachioradialis/supinator/extensor digitorum. The muscle weakness and mobility problems (likely with nerve damage) will mean he'll have less grip strength with his right hand, but also will have limited ability to turn the wheel to the right coming from the forearm and wrist not turn outwards like they should. No doubt he'll be compensating with his opposite arm. He may also have a lack of touch sensation in his right hand (think of how it feels to touch something when your hand falls asleep/get pins and needles). It's pretty amazing that he's back at this level when you think about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40803460
As far as being able to withstand another crash - he's no more fragile than a 100% healthy person when it comes to a car crash at high speed. Fractures heal back stronger at the point of breakage than they were before. If he has any issues it's likely to be muscular strains or problems with endurance over consecutive race weekends, but he'll have tested this out with other racing he's done recently and shouldn't really be an issue if he's this close to returning.
PdotMichael
Banned
Webber had a good run in 2012 but the only time he went ahead of Vettel was when he suffered a DNF I think it was at the Europe GP. After that Vettel dominated everyone with some silly long win strike.
But Weber never destroyed Vettel in 2012.
boredandlazy
Member
Webber was in front in the world title I thought until he crashed out in the wet in the Malaysian GP?
Malaysia is the 2nd GP of the year and Vettel won in Australia, so that's unlikely.
PdotMichael
Banned
I didn't count the first bunch of races because things need to pendle out first .
In fact without the two crashes/DNF in the first half of the year, Webber wouldn't have been ahead of Vettel at any time of the year.
I wouldn't argue against that Webber had a good first half in 2012 but he wasn't destroying Vettel.
In fact without the two crashes/DNF in the first half of the year, Webber wouldn't have been ahead of Vettel at any time of the year.
I wouldn't argue against that Webber had a good first half in 2012 but he wasn't destroying Vettel.
Benson just came out to say that he didn't make that graphic
Saw this on a BBC article about Kubica's test. What do we think about these assessments?
What sort of BS is this? I though BBC was som kind of respectable media outlet.
Wait, did I got it wrong or you really don't see Prost as one of the greatest? Hell, even Senna said that even though he (Prost) didn't like it, he could be faster tham him (Senna) if he wanted to. To me this feels like Senna being humble when Prost had beat him in a certain circumstance, and I (and basically everybody else) think that Senna had the raw speed, while Prost had the brains, kind of like I see Hamilton and Alonso today. Hamilton might have the raw speed, but Alonso has the brain and all the techniques. Prost was a monster, just like Alonso. Senna was like Hamilton, with the "holy shit, how the f* is this guy pulling that out?!"
Perez is great! He deserves a top spot, just like the Hulk.
I read an article about this being basically Sebastien Buemi's Job at Red Bull from 2012-2014. He was basically Vettel's simulator guy. They'd get the data and Seb's feedback from friday and marathoned on the simulator to get the optimal setup.
I wonder if they're doing models of other team bosses as well.
That's a lot of modelling work for only one race appearance.
Frankfurter
Member
Vettel was obviously better able to adapt considering that he scored more points in any given car that both Vettel and Webber got.
DHC-Shannow
Member
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/7678887/explaining-the-red-bull-dilemma
From what I've seen and read before Webber was great in high speed corners that required bravery and commitment, whilst Vettel was more adaptable as the quote talks about above.
Fox Mulder
Member
Vettel was also pissy and didn't like the car at all after winning four titles.
I wonder if they're doing models of other team bosses as well.
I really hope we'll get more DNF's in F1 2017 and not just "predicted" car failures based on their wear level but unexpected problems as well.
They had a good number of bosses last year. Wolff, Steiner, Horner, Arrivabene, Boullier, probably more. I even saw Claire Williams sitting on a couch.
Thanks so it seems like he's got no problems with endurance, but fine motor control with his hand is probably not great if they're customising the wheel for him - thumb movement is likely fine but a lot of finger movement depends on the forearm musculature which is why the shifting has to be adapted too.
Their graphics aren't their strong point.
xrnzaaas
Member
Nice, I still haven't played enough of the career mode to notice more people than Horner and Wolff.
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