PdotMichael
Banned
BBC fears ze Germans.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
- Thread starter Ark
- Start date
- Status
A lot of people don't put Prost in the same sentence of Senna, Jackie, Clark or Schumi despite him having more records than all of them bar Schumi. Why do you think that is?
As for him being faster than Senna if he wanted to.. tell me anyone that actually watched that era of racing truly believes that.
Also, the brains vs speed shit is fucking stupid. You can be the fastest driver ever, but great racecraft still requires brains. And you can't be considered a great without possessing great racecraft. I've seen the same bullshit logic used for Hamilton vs Rosberg and Ham still wiped the floor with Rosberg(watch them quote me on this an try to bring up stats). Ironically, Rosberg had the speed, what he didn't have was the brains.
I have no ideia, but I think they are wrong. What makes Senna the legend he is is exactly the fact that there were another giant fighting with him with the same car. It's not like Vettel 2010-2013 where he had the best team and a teammate not on the same league as him (I love Webber, but lets face it...)
In one lap he wasn't, but during the races...
LOL, Rosberg was a great driver, but he'll never be seen as someone at the same league as Hamilton. He never had the same one-lap pace as Lewis (just like Prost never had against Senna), but he was a solid driver. The Brains vs. Speed is not something stupid. Raikkonen is said (by people who worked with him) to be probably the most intelligent guy on the track, and (yeah, I know that that Ferrari nº 2 isn't the ideal spot to compare against the Ferrari nº 1, but...) where's his one-lap speed or his race pace? I know, I know, that Ferrari nº 2 is historically shit, but I don't see signs of a guy who wants to win everything and get more titles, that thinks he's a god like Fernando, for example, does. That's why so many people say he has no motivation.
KillerMan91
Member
For me the difference between Rosberg and Hamilton, or Button and Nando, or Barricello and Schumi has never really been outright pace in a car. They could all drive fast.
The king maker was having the chops to try something batty and it being instinctual rather than calculated.
We saw Rosberg start to get his elbows out in his WDC year but it always looked like a fast driver trying to be aggressive. For me it always came off looking forced and clunky. See him forgetting to drive round corners for one.
The king maker was having the chops to try something batty and it being instinctual rather than calculated.
We saw Rosberg start to get his elbows out in his WDC year but it always looked like a fast driver trying to be aggressive. For me it always came off looking forced and clunky. See him forgetting to drive round corners for one.
This is why it's unfortunate - although understandable - that Rosberg retired. Imagine this season with him in the second Mercedes instead of Bottas. Would he have crumbled like Bottas did early on or would he be heaping the pressure on Hamilton right now?
KillerMan91
Member
I was talking about Kimi though lol
PdotMichael
Banned
Well, Lewis doesn't really perform that well. Like 15 points behind despite having the better car for most of the first half of the year.
Mercedes is doing this regularly since they arrived back to F1. And I think their simulator work really paid off on Hungaroring with awesome damage limitation
But Raikkonen is known for doing this king of thing for years. He likes to push the car at the end of the race, when it's light on fuel, when most of the drivers are coasting and saving the equipment when the results are defined. This doesn't mean anything aside him wanting to have his name registered with the fastest lap of the race.
KillerMan91
Member
I think that the world of motorsports lose at least one Ayrton Senna every year, because it is a sport for such a few people that it isn't rare to see a knucklehead getting up to F1 just because he can pay for it.
I believe that what makes a great driver is the capacity o adaptation of each driver. Senna could do things with the turbo that no one else could, and this is why he was getting pole position with a Lotus against Ferrari, Williams and McLaren. Berger asked him to teach him his driving techniques, and Senna did that, but Berger felt so uncomfortable that he got out of the car saying that that kind of stuff wasn't for him. When they banned the turbos and Senna adapted to that and was still just as fast as he ever was. The same with Schumacher, who drove so many cars under many different rules and regulations, and was a monster behind the wheel. Same with Alonso, and so on...
How the Mercedes and the Ferrari compare this season is not straight forward to conclude. I would say the Ferrari is the overall better car, the Mercedes the quicker car in suitable conditions.
Hamilton had some weak performances. He botched Monaco and didn't exactly impress in Russia or Austria.
Vettel definitely also had some weak performances. He was out qualified by Raikkonen in Monaco (but was handed the victory by decision of the team), his poor start in Canada put him between two cars and resulted in a damaged front wing, he had a meltdown in Azerbaijan and he didn't impress in the British Grand Prix.
Hamilton is still the only one to have an issue take away a win (Azerbaijan), yet he has the most impressive stats so far.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
Just for fun, I calculated the championship standings if points were awarded for pole position and fastest laps. I used 4 points for pole and 2 points for fast lap like they use in Formula 2.
The rest of the standings are unchanged except Alonso would be 14th with 12 points.
Which brings me to this question: How would you feel about awarding points for poles and fast laps?
The rest of the standings are unchanged except Alonso would be 14th with 12 points.
Which brings me to this question: How would you feel about awarding points for poles and fast laps?
I'd be fine with one point for fastest lap but I think pole gives enough of a benefit as it is.
Solaire of Astora
Death by black JPN
No he wasn't. We debunked this myth at the time. As Raikkonen was leading, he was given the preferential earlier pitstop. Meanwhile, Vettel went much longer on his stint and started producing better lap times on his old tyres than kimi did on either of his sets. He wasn't handed anything. He was just much quicker that day.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
What are they going to name it, über soft?
Mega Soft!
Ribbed
StopMakingSense
Member
IIRC, Ferrari was predicting on overcut advantage that weekend. Remember hearing it during the race on Sky.
You got it backwards. Staying out was the preferred strategy (which clearly showed for everyone in the top). Ricciardo was catching Vettel and Ferrari then decided to get rid of Raikkonen so that Vettel could be let loose. If this was a proper fight there is no way Raikkonen looses the win. It was not a stupid move from Ferrari, however you then have to consider the big risk they took in Hungary to protect Vettel.
Read a detailed report from Mark Hughes to better understand what happened in Monaco.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2017-monaco-grand-prix-report
Solaire of Astora
Death by black JPN
Well this is news to me, since I live in Japan and don't get sky.
Point being, Monaco was an anomaly. Undercutting is generally seen as the favorable strategy, hence why teams usually offer it to the driver performing better in the race.
And how much of the result was influenced by Vettel's excellent pace before he pitted? Raikkonen just didn't have the kind of pace in him on the day. Given the gulf in performance between the two and the fact that the tried and tested strategy that is used at every race actually turned out to be not so great this time, it's a little ignorant to just say that he was handed the race win.
Gotta be hypersoft. Or maybe infrasoft?
It actually bugs me that they don't just call the things soft, medium, and hard. We get it, Pirelli, all your tires are soft.
PdotMichael
Banned
How the Mercedes and the Ferrari compare this season is not straight forward to conclude. I would say the Ferrari is the overall better car, the Mercedes the quicker car in suitable conditions.
Hamilton had some weak performances. He botched Monaco and didn't exactly impress in Russia or Austria.
Vettel definitely also had some weak performances. He was out qualified by Raikkonen in Monaco (but was handed the victory by decision of the team), his poor start in Canada put him between two cars and resulted in a damaged front wing, he had a meltdown in Azerbaijan and he didn't impress in the British Grand Prix.
Hamilton is still the only one to have an issue take away a win (Azerbaijan), yet he has the most impressive stats so far.
I'm not sure how you can post that graphics and claim the Ferrari was totally the better car.
adamantypants
Member
I thought Pirelli was going to make all the compounds harder next season since they're all too durable this year. We're not even expecting to see the hard tires at all for the rest of the year right?
I lol'd
I lol'd
StopMakingSense
Member
The only passing strategy in Monaco is tire strategy.
The results can come about in many ways, determining who had the strongest car for most weekends is more complicated. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ferrari was a strong car in all conditions and the Mercedes had higher peaks but also deeper lows.
I feel the strength between the cars and Vettel and Hamilton is much more even than you were arguing (Hamilton performing poorly because he had the best car and wasn't leading).
Lewis has only won races from pole this season? Interesting observation.
Don_Tombery
Member
More so only when ha was on pole and had the fastest lap.
Obviously he can't overtake and only wins in a dominant car ;-)
DHC-Shannow
Member
If you take it a step further, the Merc really doesn't like to be behind other cars as the only races Bottas has won are the Russian GP where he started 2nd and beat Vettel on the sprint to the first corner and Austria where he started on Pole...
Damn its weird to see that list and have to scroll down a good bit to find Senna.
I'm not claiming that at all, but I do remember a lot of Hamilton fans suggesting as much of Rosberg with similar facts.
Frankfurter
Member
Norwegian Rudo
Member
Marc Priestley looks at driver rumours for Formula E:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzKJHBBg8as
He also mentions that it appears DS (basically Citroen, right?) are leaving Virgin for Techeetah after next season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzKJHBBg8as
He also mentions that it appears DS (basically Citroen, right?) are leaving Virgin for Techeetah after next season.
adamantypants
Member
Whoops, meant softer. My bad
aspiegamer
Member
Or they could just keep the existing names and move them all down 2 compounds. Why 2? There have been multiple weekends where the Medium has been available and the teams select the 1 mandatory set and that's it. So the softs are effectively the hards this year. They're also running out of colors you can distinguish on a car moving at high speed. Don't mess with inters/wets because there's still practically no data on wear rate of those in competitive conditions. Maybe give them 1 extra set of something for only the race if wear rates are high to discourage more nursing.
That "myths" article on the halos is mostly accurate. The only one anyone actually cares about it the appearance, though! Trying to compare to LMP1 with that tiny windshield wiper is absurd in terms of blocked vision. I think there could be an issue in drivers seeing the lights in the box because of the angle of the thicker part, and it might obstruct looking down/ahead the track for flags. But mostly it's just ugly as hell and not I think I'd ever want to drive a car staring at in front of me.
That "myths" article on the halos is mostly accurate. The only one anyone actually cares about it the appearance, though! Trying to compare to LMP1 with that tiny windshield wiper is absurd in terms of blocked vision. I think there could be an issue in drivers seeing the lights in the box because of the angle of the thicker part, and it might obstruct looking down/ahead the track for flags. But mostly it's just ugly as hell and not I think I'd ever want to drive a car staring at in front of me.
Don_Tombery
Member
I didn't think you were. I was just joking when I saw that it could be extended even to the fastest laps.
These kind of 'facts' are always good for a laugh. Any drivers fans claims stuff like this on every other driver winning some races based on such statistics.
Frankfurter
Member
Solaire of Astora
Death by black JPN
Any particular reason why you quoted me there?
He seems to think Rosenqvist will stay at Mahindra. Didn't mention his Indycar ambitions.
Norwegian Rudo
Member
This was for the Formula E youtube channel. Probably wouldn't mention negative news until something concrete happens.
Edit: Someone on the Autosports forum claims Nyck de Vries is the frontrunner for a Venturi seat. He's been a test driver for them, and McLaren are involved with the technical side.
StopMakingSense
Member
Talking about pace in Monaco is a little silly because the person in front will stay in front. Pace is for Qualifying.
Solaire of Astora
Death by black JPN
Pace is also for undercutting/overcutting.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
This is interesting. IndyCar is looking to return to the Autodromo Hermanos Rodgrigues next year.
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/142882-2018-indycar-mexico-race-date-continues-to-develop
That would mean the possibility of the circuit hosting F1 and IndyCar in the same month. You think they would stick with the normal grand prix circuit? Honestly, I'd like to see them use the full Peraltada curve.
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/142882-2018-indycar-mexico-race-date-continues-to-develop
That would mean the possibility of the circuit hosting F1 and IndyCar in the same month. You think they would stick with the normal grand prix circuit? Honestly, I'd like to see them use the full Peraltada curve.
xrnzaaas
Member
- Status