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[Firewire]

Then surely pause and instant restart also fall into the realm of "not possible in real life." If the inclusion of rewind is enough for you to consider a game to not be a sim, for the sake of consistency, the inclusion of these two features must do the same.

Why is it I feel like we are going in circles with the restart?

Pause is simply a feature given to the gamer, who might at some point have to answer the phone or the door or even go to the washroom. This is a bit of a reach isn't it? Pausing does not effect the game in any way it just holds it in time, it can't be manipulated.

Both games have restart capability. I mentioned yesterday and the day before when you brought it up that my own personal preference is no restart's in a career mode. I cannot change the fact that both games allow you to do this. There are obvious reasons for this and I am sure you know them.

PS: Great Forza 3 scores! Congrats to Turn10, those scores are well deserved!

 

[KHarvey16]

Why is it I feel like we are going in circles with the restart?

Pause is simply a feature given to the gamer, who might at some point have to answer the phone or the door or even go to the washroom. This is a bit of a reach isn't it? Pausing does not effect the game in any way it just holds it in time, it can't be manipulated.

Both games have restart capability. I mentioned yesterday and the day before when you brought it up that my own personal preference is no restart's in a career mode. I cannot change the fact that both games allow you to do this. There are obvious reasons for this and I am sure you know them.

PS: Great Forza 3 scores! Congrats to Turn10, those scores are well deserved!

This whole discussion stems from you considering rewind justification for removing the status of sim from FM3. Do you still think that way despite the things I just mentioned?

 

[[Nintex]]

Give up, Retire, F-Zero GX wins

 

[SmokyDave]

Give up, Retire, F-Zero GX wins

Woah, you've covered every angle and didn't even need to introduce the "IT'S MADE BY SEGA!" sucker punch.

Does F-Zero GX have rewind?

 

[plagiarize]

Woah, you've covered every angle and didn't even need to introduce the "IT'S MADE BY SEGA!" sucker punch.

Does F-Zero GX have rewind?

there are lots of reasons F-Zero GX wins.

however, HD is a big cheat. F-Zero GX is completely unplayable in emulators. you can look at the menus and start a race, but as soon as the 3-2-1 hits zero your car explodes.

oh, but when it is...

 

[LCfiner]

Give up, Retire, F-Zero GX wins
http://i37.tinypic.com/2pr5u9y.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

see, this is why I keep coming back to this thread :lol

Admittedly, I am totally, 100% not hardcore enough for F-Zero GX. way too crazy for my feeble skills.

 

[[Nintex]]

Woah, you've covered every angle and didn't even need to introduce the "IT'S MADE BY SEGA!" sucker punch.

Does F-Zero GX have rewind?

Certainly not, F-Zero GX is a gentlemans game.

 

[belvedere]

So were all of the complaints about the graphics, AI, cockpit view, multiplayer etc not reflected in the reviews for FM3? Pretty high scores for so many complaints.

 

[Lion Heart]

I see a pattern here

Unrivaled hypocrisy.

Interfectum makes me want to not like Gran Turismo anymore.

Well thats cause you are a fanboy, good riddance.

 

[Totobeni]

Erm just what in the fuck is this?

http://xtremepk.7forum.net/jogos-multiplataforma-e-artigos-f62/gta5-vs-forza3-t3119.htm

Is this like a copy and paste of the thread? or is this guy arguing his case?

wooha GTA5 look fuckin sick , Rockstar delivers.

 

[Interfectum]

Give up, Retire, F-Zero GX wins
http://i37.tinypic.com/2pr5u9y.jpg

GT5P is 4xAA @ 720p not 2x.

Don't worry I'm working on a definitive definitive chart.

 

[SmokyDave]

GT5P is 4xAA @ 720p not 2x.

Don't worry I'm working on a definitive definitive chart.

Can't wait for such categories as "Is Called Gran Turismo 5" and "Has My Favourite Tail-lights In".

 

[Interfectum]

So were all of the complaints about the graphics, AI, cockpit view, multiplayer etc not reflected in the reviews for FM3? Pretty high scores for so many complaints.

In the non-US (read non-sponsored) media like Top Gear, Gamereactor etc they have been mentioned.

 

[[Nintex]]

GT5P is 4xAA @ 720p not 2x.

Don't worry I'm working on a definitive definitive chart.

En Taro Adun, Executor!

I expected better from a fellow Blizzard fan, you're truely unworthy of that Diablo III avatar. The high court of Zeratul is not pleased with this behavior.

 

[Diablohead]

In the non-US (read non-sponsored) media like Top Gear, Gamereactor etc they have been mentioned.

uh huh

 

[Totobeni]

GT5P is 4xAA @ 720p not 2x.

4xwhatever , thing is F-Zero GX wins

Forza and GT5 still it don't have Captain Falcon or Samurai Goroh , Captain Falcon >>> unknown Drivers with helmets , so F-Zero GX wins.

 

[belvedere]

In the non-US (read non-sponsored) media like Top Gear, Gamereactor etc they have been mentioned.

At least half of those reviews are completely contradictory.

"Other than the graphics, the predictable AI, the glitchy multiplayer and modest car selection, and the fact that the game hasn't really brought anything significantly new to the table, the game is perfect."

:lol

 

[RSTEIN]

So were all of the complaints about the graphics, AI, cockpit view, multiplayer etc not reflected in the reviews for FM3? Pretty high scores for so many complaints.

Yeah. Gamespy said the cockpit view is "jarringly disappointing." Others complain about the issues that you pointed out. Every game has flaws. Even Halo, GT, Metal Gear, etc. Even the best games aren't perfect.

But here's where hardcore NeoGAF fanboys and real racing enthusiasts collide: issues such as headlamp detail have no impact on the total experience of the game whatsoever. In fact, the issues in this thread that have generated the most heated debate (rewind, small graphical differences, lighting in cockpit view, etc.) are trivial and most irrelevant when the total package is evaluated.

 

[Andronicus]

En Taro Adun, Executor!

I expected better from a fellow Blizzard fan, you're truely unworthy of that Diablo III avatar. The high court of Zeratul is not pleased with this behavior.

take that shit back to the longer wait than GT5 thread:lol

 

[TheSeks]

Can't wait for such categories as "Is Called Gran Turismo 5" and "Has My Favourite Tail-lights In".

:lol

Give up, Retire, F-Zero GX wins

Crash Team Racing puts a quarter in the machine and says: "A CHALLENGER APPEARS!"

(Though the bit about the Falcon Punch had me rolling)

 

[SmokyDave]

Yeah. Gamespy said the cockpit view is "jarringly disappointing." Others complain about the issues that you pointed out. Every game has flaws. Even Halo, GT, Metal Gear, etc. Even the best games aren't perfect.

But here's where hardcore NeoGAF fanboys and real racing enthusiasts collide: issues such as headlamp detail have no impact on the total experience of the game whatsoever. In fact, the issues in this thread that have generated the most heated debate (rewind, small graphical differences, lighting in cockpit view, etc.) are trivial and most irrelevant when the total package is evaluated.

This is so true. I love this thread because it makes me realise that there are some people out there that view gaming completely different to me. They don't see two excellent simulators, two of the finest driving games ever to grace consoles, releasing within 6 months of each other. Oh no, they see a bare-chested gladiator with their favoured consoles emblem on his chest, they see him being attacked by evil dragons with the opposite consoles logo on and they have to help defend him. 99% of the shit in this thread has nothing to do with Forza / GT and everything to do with 360 / PS3.

Is it pathetic? Is it hilarious? I can't decide.

 

[Interfectum]

"Other than the graphics, the predictable AI, the glitchy multiplayer and modest car selection, and the fact that the game hasn't really brought anything significantly new to the table, the game is perfect."

Perfect summary of these reviews :lol

 

[Ultimo hombre]

Bish,

Thanks a ton for this thread. It's real effect is most evident as the reviews are now coming in. It's so nice to see reviews and reactions without fighting through the troll hordes.

 

[-viper-]

Good reviews for Forza 3. Would buy if I had a 360.

Then surely pause and instant restart also fall into the realm of "not possible in real life." If the inclusion of rewind is enough for you to consider a game to not be a sim, for the sake of consistency, the inclusion of these two features must do the same.

Eh? Not ability to pause the game = retarded game design.

 

[commedieu]

When is the last time a 360 exclusive received "questionable" reviews? Its DLC gets AAA scores, some even higher than Uncharted.

I dont think im alone saying that no one on Neogaf/Any site claimed Forza3 was going to be a flop by the same people who claim Ratchet & Clank has "too much variety". The last one was AAA as well......

Reviews don't make up for the shortcomings of the self proclaimed "definitive" simulation of this generation. Do they? Considering Forza2 was already "perfect" at review time.

Judging by the way the media works, F3 is going to be the highest scoring driving game ever to make up for the lack of any real 360 titles this year. Oddly enough, all reviews are ignoring the problems with the game and giving it 9's anyway and mentioning GT5's delay.

Now thats a shock.

 

[Lurchio]

When is the last time a 360 exclusive received "questionable" reviews? Its DLC gets AAA scores, some even higher than Uncharted.

I dont think im alone saying that no one on Neogaf/Any site claimed Forza3 was going to be a flop by the same people who claim Ratchet & Clank has "too much variety". The last one was AAA as well......

Reviews don't make up for the shortcomings of the self proclaimed "definitive" simulation of this generation. Do they? Considering Forza2 was already "perfect" at review time.

Judging by the way the media works, F3 is going to be the highest scoring driving game ever to make up for the lack of any real 360 titles this year. Oddly enough, all reviews are ignoring the problems with the game and giving it 9's anyway and mentioning GT5's delay.

Now thats a shock.

Get yerself a 360 so you wont have to feel sad when good games get released.

 

[chespace]

I think all this discussion about rewind (some love it others detest it) is pretty awesome actually. Keep it up because it's interesting to see both sides.

 

[SmokyDave]

The kind of paranoia usually associated with glassy eyed mumbling hobos with their arms wrapped around themselves.

I...Is your post serious?

If not, that's some finely nuanced satire you got yourself there.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

In the non-US (read non-sponsored) media like Top Gear, Gamereactor etc they have been mentioned.

Can you link me to the Top Gear review of the final build? I'm dying to read it.

 

[Zaptruder]

I think all this discussion about rewind (some love it others detest it) is pretty awesome actually. Keep it up because it's interesting to see both sides.

Reward players for not using rewind, but have it, because it can be useful for some.

Simple as that.

 

[RSTEIN]

Looks like we have our first meltdown :lol

When is the last time a 360 exclusive received "questionable" reviews? Its DLC gets AAA scores, some even higher than Uncharted.

So Forza 3 gets good reviews and we already have a few people in this thread claiming the reviews are "questionable," gloss over shortcomings, or are outright bought. That's pretty predictable, but fun to see.

Reviews don't make up for the shortcomings of the self proclaimed "definitive" simulation of this generation. Do they? Considering Forza2 was already "perfect" at review time.

Again, even the greatest games have issues. But you need to look at the final product as a whole. I could list at at least half a dozen issues for each of my top 5 all time favourite games.

Judging by the way the media works, F3 is going to be the highest scoring driving game ever to make up for the lack of any real 360 titles this year.

What on earth does F3's review scores have anything to do with the rest of the 360 titles to be released this year? You lost me here.

Oddly enough, all reviews are ignoring the problems with the game and giving it 9's anyway and mentioning GT5's delay.

There's just no way F3 could get a high score! NO WAY! IT HAS TO DO WITH GT5! IT'S A MEDIA CONSPIRACY!!!!!

 

[imtehman]

I think all this discussion about rewind (some love it others detest it) is pretty awesome actually. Keep it up because it's interesting to see both sides.

all that discussion would be non existent if T10 had an option to turn it off before a race like with racing lines (assuming they didn't fix that from the demo)

 

[Keikoku]

Perfect summary of this reviews :lol

Fixed. Don't try to pretend that the game is getting bad reviews. 94 on metacritic. Best racing game of this gen. Cry moar.

 

[Firewire]

This whole discussion stems from you considering rewind justification for removing the status of sim from FM3. Do you still think that way despite the things I just mentioned?

Yes. I would not have a problem if "rewind" was limited to a practice mode, it would even be fun in an online just friends casual screw around race mode. But getting points, unlocking cars and tracks in career mode with it removes it for me from the sim category. But that's my view, of course you and everyone else is entitled to their own view. Its a free world after all.

Anyways thanx for not insulting me, somehow I knew we could have a civilized discussion about this.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

When is the last time a 360 exclusive received "questionable" reviews? Its DLC gets AAA scores, some even higher than Uncharted.

I dont think im alone saying that no one on Neogaf/Any site claimed Forza3 was going to be a flop by the same people who claim Ratchet & Clank has "too much variety". The last one was AAA as well......

Reviews don't make up for the shortcomings of the self proclaimed "definitive" simulation of this generation. Do they? Considering Forza2 was already "perfect" at review time.

Judging by the way the media works, F3 is going to be the highest scoring driving game ever to make up for the lack of any real 360 titles this year. Oddly enough, all reviews are ignoring the problems with the game and giving it 9's anyway and mentioning GT5's delay.

Now thats a shock.

Isn't this console trolling? I thought that was bannable in here?

 

[skyfinch]

I just got laid off. Wish I had a rewind button....

 

[commedieu]

Get yerself a 360 so you wont have to feel sad when good games get released.

360 games all get good marks, regardless of the shortcomings. Which the reviews are highlighting. Read any of my posts, Forza is a good series.

But the faux-surprise that its getting received well is whats funny. The whole "WHAT NOW?!" Again, F2 was the same way. Great scores, and everyone saw how that turned out. Years later, Turn10 is still spitting all over other developers trying to convince the world that its better. When by all standards to measure mediawise, it was already....But still couldn't Shake GT from being a household name/recognition.

 

[Firewire]

Give up, Retire, F-Zero GX wins

I like how you left out the real definitive racing game...Wipeout HD!

 

[imtehman]

When is the last time a 360 exclusive received "questionable" reviews? Its DLC gets AAA scores, some even higher than Uncharted.

I dont think im alone saying that no one on Neogaf/Any site claimed Forza3 was going to be a flop by the same people who claim Ratchet & Clank has "too much variety". The last one was AAA as well......

Reviews don't make up for the shortcomings of the self proclaimed "definitive" simulation of this generation. Do they? Considering Forza2 was already "perfect" at review time.

Judging by the way the media works, F3 is going to be the highest scoring driving game ever to make up for the lack of any real 360 titles this year. Oddly enough, all reviews are ignoring the problems with the game and giving it 9's anyway and mentioning GT5's delay.

Now thats a shock.

quoted for posterity's sake

 

[XiaNaphryz]

But getting points, unlocking cars and tracks in career mode with it removes it for me from the sim category.

You do know that none of what you describe there is essential in what makes a driving game a simulation or not. :lol

 

[shpankey]

...

Dude, you seriously scare me. Your cherry picking reviews for one line negative comments is downright shameful.

 

[evolution]

Great scores, but im not really suprised. All the forza games have reviewed high. The wait for GT5 continues.

 

[chespace]

I just got laid off. Wish I had a rewind button....

Doh! Sorry to hear that. Good luck.

 

[dfyb]

all that discussion would be non existent if T10 had an option to turn it off before a race like with racing lines (assuming they didn't fix that from the demo)

leaderboards are another issue. rewinding lets you basically fine tune each corner individually, so it'd be pretty easy to spend time rewinding until you get a near perfect lap/race time. a legitimate, unaltered lap would have a hard time competing with a laptime attained by someone rewinding. they should at least separate the leaderboards for rewinders/non-rewinders.

edit: turn10 already has this figured out

 

[Firewire]

I just got laid off. Wish I had a rewind button....

That sucks dude! Wish you the best of luck.

Spoiler

Maybe if you retrace your steps walking backwards you can slap your boss in the face before he/she springs the bad news. It might work.

 

[commedieu]

Looks like we have our first meltdown :lol

So Forza 3 gets good reviews and we already have a few people in this thread claiming the reviews are "questionable," gloss over shortcomings, or are outright bought. That's pretty predictable, but fun to see.

Again, even the greatest games have issues. But you need to look at the final product as a whole. I could list at at least half a dozen issues for each of my top 5 all time favourite games.

What on earth does F3's review scores have anything to do with the rest of the 360 titles to be released this year? You lost me here.

There's just no way F3 could get a high score! NO WAY! IT HAS TO DO WITH GT5! IT'S A MEDIA CONSPIRACY!!!!!

Well no.. Because F2 got the same scores. With the same exact campaign before.. Bullshots/Actual game. Shortcomings ignored, high scores. If that didn't literally happen, the exact same way it did now. I think you'd have a good case for claiming fanboy excuses...But the same thing literally happened with Forza2.

Some meltdown..

 

[SmokyDave]

leaderboards are another issue. rewinding lets you basically fine tune each corner individually, so it'd be pretty easy to spend time rewinding until you get a near perfect lap/race time. a legitimate, unaltered lap would have a hard time competing with a laptime attained by someone rewinding. they should at least separate the leaderboards for rewinders/non-rewinders.

A lap using rewind is on a different leaderboard.

 

[Firewire]

Doh! Sorry to hear that. Good luck.

Send him a free copy of Forza 3 dude! You know you want to! :lol

 

[dfyb]

How is this still possible?

Surely anybody that cared about this issue would know a lap using rewind is on a different leaderboard.

i hadn't looked at the leaderboards in the demo -- since you can't turn off rewind in the demo, i figured there'd just be one leaderboard. non-issue then.

 

[chespace]

leaderboards are another issue. rewinding lets you basically fine tune each corner individually, so it'd be pretty easy to spend time rewinding until you get a near perfect lap/race time. a legitimate, unaltered lap would have a hard time competing with a laptime attained by someone rewinding. they should at least separate the leaderboards for rewinders/non-rewinders.

Nah, rewinding (and going off-track, and making contact with other cars, etc.) un-certifies your time and it gets bumped to the bottom of a scoreboard.